| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/24/2006 10:57:43 PM | Some would characterize you as a prostitute. But that would make 'some'
short-sighted in your eye's.
Anything goes with some people I guess. For the right price. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/25/2006 7:18:16 AM | Bewitched Soul
Your last post addressing my comments on deterrence go great lengths in demonstrating your lack of understanding about the Criminal Code, and further demonstrates the inconsistencies within your own arguments.
To start:
"Sorry Brain-In-A-Vat; but I totally disagree with you. It is not a deterrent right now because there is no punishment for the crime. I don't call a fine or a few days in jail punishment, and frankly our prison systems are just as much as a joke as the Canadian law is.
If the penalties were stiffer..say 10 yrs in jail WITHOUT perole, or none of this 2/3rds of the time business, then people would think twice about commiting crimes."
The Criminal Code at Section 212 & 213 defines and describes offences related to prostitution. As a comfort to most people in this thread, it is the 'Pimp' or the 'John' who receive the most harsh penalties. For example, if a 'Pimp' or a 'John' use violence or threats of violence to force a female into prostitution they will be found guilty of an indictable offence, and will be senteced up to 14 years in prison, but minimally no less then 5.
The punishment with respect to the actual Prostitute is not as severe. Prostitution is considered a summary offence. Which means that upon conviction the criminal will be liable for a fine of not more then $2000, or 6 months in prison, or both.
Now, many here have advocated that the most severe problem with Prostitution is not the prostitutes, but the 'Johns'. The law reflects that very fact by punishing those people the most severely.
Now, moving along with the next part of your post:
"I've actually known offenders in my life that have specifically comitted a crime so they would serve time and have a place to stay for the winter, free 3 meals a day, free cable, & free leisure activities, which yes they do get in prison. Hell, they can even publish a book while they are in there, or get a free career! Oh and don't forget the drugs...it's just as easy to access drugs in the prisons then it is on the streets. Now if that isn't saying something about our justice system then I don't know what is, not to mention the fact that when they commit a crime, they get out the next morning on bail, and they don't even have to worry about the consequences for at least six months to a year or more because the courts are so backed up."
It appears you are suggesting that the jail system does not encourage specific deterrence. You seem to state that those people who have been in jail commit new crimes just to get back. But earlier you said that stiffer punishment would prevent crimes. Sorry but the two arguments do not wash. If people want to get back in jail because life is easier there, then they will not necessarily be concerned with the length of a sentence. Essentially you are arguing against yourself here.
Also, your failure to understand the bail system within the criminal code is troubling. Do you understand the difference between summary and indictable offences? Are you aware of Section 469 offences? Do you understand the concept of a reverse onus? Do you know the three circumstances that a reverse onus operates at a bail / show-cause hearing? If you do not, I would be more then happy to explain to you how a show-cause hearing actually works, and how a person charged with a crime actually gets released on bail.
Then to top it off, you disagree with yourself to finish your post:
"Now I agree with you that it is not a deterrant in the long run, because once in jail for a long time, some people become institutionalized, but getting the scum off the street is certainly going to lesson the number of prostitutes that are out there. If they know they are looking at hard time, they won't be galavanting out in public on the streets of Toronto and such flagging down cars to sell thier goodies in front of children."
You acknowledge that deterrence does not work in the long run, then you say that it will lesson the number of prostitutes that are out there. Which is it? Actually, the way you have written you posts leaves me with the impression that you fail to understand what is meant by deterrence.
With that in mind - deterrence is not about taking criminals off the streets, it is about the punishment for certain crimes being of such a nature that future crimes of the same kind will not be committed by that person (specific) or other in society (general). | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/25/2006 8:41:29 AM | | Isnt it prostitution when we go out on a date buy dinner and then get some later we are still paying for it either way , with dinner or just buy picking her up. So my point is either way we are paying to get layed. so wheres the crime? So if its 50 dollars for dinner, and then get layed or 50 dollars for a piece which one do you pick. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/25/2006 8:49:09 AM | rdb...
Your arguments are lacking.
You analogy fails for one simple reason. The money you pay for dinner is paid in respect of the food, with the expectation that buying food will allow for sex later.
When you pay money to a prostitute your money is being directly exchanged for sex.
Clearly that is an obvious distinction. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/25/2006 10:10:50 AM | Brain in a Vat:
This yheory you have isnt remotely true because a person goes out on that date with intent to have sex later so in that regard your still paying for it. your just buttering her up to eventually get some. Its even worse if it takes more than one date because thats even more money you spent and you take the chance of not getting any. The prostitute is a sure thing. Dah, Dah!!!!!! Maybe your brain really is in a vat. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/25/2006 10:16:36 AM |
Hey, if my husband is happy, and I'm happy...what's it to you? And the correct word for what you're discussing is MONOTONY. You feel free to rust away, I'd rather wear out. But I guess if you cannot understand a lifestyle, and certainly can't participate in it, all you can do is make theoretical judgements based on subjective ignorance. Doesn't bother me any. Better some great years than none at all.
You know, there are actually some drawbacks to supporting the dissolution of a marriage. Everything from children to consider and STD's to wives with guns. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/25/2006 10:33:30 AM | Ivenever understood why its prostitution is illeagal yet I can pay a woman to have sex with me and sell the video I mean the adult industry does it all the time and by leagalizing it you should be able to control it better.
you will still have the crack Whores in the nasty parts of town but some one who just wants a good time and wants a person who is certified clean might be better than impounding cars and writing tickets | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/25/2006 12:14:32 PM | rdb...
When you try to mock somebody, it is more effective when you do not embarass yourself in the process. Your last post essentially repeats the distinction that I raised, and as to why the analogy fails.
Now, if you recall, I stated that the money on a date is exchanged directly for the food, with the possible expectation of sex. And you respond with the following:
"because a person goes out on that date with intent to have sex later so in that regard your still paying for it"
Exactly, a person has the intent, as you say yourself. That does not negate the fact that very literally the money is being exchanged for food in that circumstance, and there is no assurance that any money you spend on your date in terms of entertainment will result in you having sex at some later date.
Then you say:
"The prostitute is a sure thing."
Which emphasizes why the analogy fails. With respect to the date, you have intentions / expectations of sex, but no guarantee. You acknowledge this yourself. But with a prostitute it is "as sure thing."
You illustrated the difference in your own post and then you mocked me. I suppose I could offer you some help removing your foot from your mouth now. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/25/2006 12:55:22 PM | | so if the government made a profit off of this I bet it would be legal. Kinda like vegas the escorts pay taxes out of there check therfore its legal in vegas. So if they got a weekly paycheck and taxes were taken out it would be legal because the country would get thier cut. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/25/2006 1:01:35 PM | | Of course it should. It goes on anyway, and has for thousands of years. It's like the whole prohibition thing. People found another way to get drunk. It just brings out the "criminal element" in a more profound way, I think. I think they should also legalize marijuana. One less thing people are out doing "on the streets"... | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/25/2006 1:56:45 PM | One must be careful with using the argument 'that it bring out the criminal element in a more profound way' to justify legalizing a certain practice or indulgence.
Consider your argument for marijuana, and the notion that it would be one less thing 'people are out doing on the streets.
How would you differentiate that from crack, cocaine, heroine, etc. There must be more to your argument then what you have stated, and it is important to express that because the way you have left leaves you committed to the same stance with the aforementioned drugs. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/25/2006 4:45:53 PM | Brain In A Vat; I think you misunderstand my posts, and I am not as naive of the justice system as you think. I've been in court most of my life, for career & family matters. As a journalist I am no stranger to the courtroom.
As a comfort to most people in this thread, it is the 'Pimp' or the 'John' who receive the most harsh penalties.
I am not speaking of Pimps or Johns, I am speaking of the penalties to the prostitutes themselves.
Which means that upon conviction the criminal will be liable for a fine of not more then $2000, or 6 months in prison, or both.
Exactly my point; this is unacceptable. $2000.00? They could pay that off in a few days of whoring around. And, you should know yourself, that they very rarely give out a six month sentence or both, and if they do, they will only do a maximum of 4 months for good behaviour. Again...unacceptable.
You seem to state that those people who have been in jail commit new crimes just to get back. But earlier you said that stiffer punishment would prevent crimes. Sorry but the two arguments do not wash. If people want to get back in jail because life is easier there, then they will not necessarily be concerned with the length of a sentence. Essentially you are arguing against yourself here.
Not true. Those people aren't worried about being incarcerated, because 1, I was speaking of winter, and 2, I'm speaking of kiddie jails, or country club jails, not pen time. Two different things we are speaking of here. If the prostitutes were getting pen time they would think twice about it.
Also, your failure to understand the bail system within the criminal code is troubling.
Sigh...I'm not going to argue with you regarding bail proceedures. I may not remember the fancy words for proceedings, but I've attended more bail hearings then I can count, and very rarely is bail refused.
You acknowledge that deterrence does not work in the long run, then you say that it will lesson the number of prostitutes that are out there. Which is it?........With that in mind - deterrence is not about taking criminals off the streets
Which is it? BOTH. People that do years of pen time become hardened, and many times institutionalized. They are likely to reoffend. This has been proven. However, if a person gets 10 years, they are not going to be out on the streets in 4 months committing the same crime. Over a span of time, stiffer sentences WILL get criminals off the streets, and the beginning offender will think twice about comitting the crime in the first place if they know they will do 10 years in the pen.
You say that length of time served is not a detterent to actually comitting the crime. I disagree. As an example; there are many people who deal pot. The courts are overflowed with such cases. The $ far outweighs the risks. They will get a fine or possibly even weekend sentences or house arrest. At the max, maybe a few months in jail, which they still only serve 2/3rds. Those same people would not deal the harder drugs or smuggle, which bring in a LOT more money, because they know they can get pen time for that. Therefore, the amount of time of sentencing is a huge deterrent. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/25/2006 6:26:53 PM | | It should be legal, since its not illegal to have sex, or give people money, but when you do these things at the same time you go to jail, Hmmmmmmmmmmmm lol | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/25/2006 6:59:07 PM |
Hey, if my husband is happy, and I'm happy...what's it to you?
But are you really happy being someone's property which is essentially what you are?
Yeah, he'll be happy until he gets tried of you and drops you for someone more attractive.
At some point, the drugs will catch up to you and no one will want you anymore. You'll be on the street.
And the correct word for what you're discussing is MONOTONY. You feel free to rust away, I'd rather wear out.
I think the way you're headed you're going to be settling for anyone who can scrape up enough cash for a hit.
Yeah, self-destruction is like sooo kewl and stuff. Like, it's like better to um burn out than like fade away and get all old and stuff.
[quote}But I guess if you cannot understand a lifestyle, and certainly can't participate in it,
I can understand why someone would live the way you do. It's fast,easy money. here's no future to fear. It's the same reason people sell drugs, swindle people, rob, rape, kill, etc.
And I would not want your life. I would not want to be under someone else's thumb.
all you can do is make theoretical judgements based on subjective ignorance. Doesn't bother me any.
This is what bothers me. You're obviously an intelligent young woman who potentially has a lot to offer the world. Yet you're essentially throwing your life away to essentially be a glorified prostitute. And then you act as if you're living some dream and everyone else is lame because they can't or won't do what you do.
This is partly why imo, feminism is dying. Women themselves are killing it. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/26/2006 10:13:48 AM | | Hey brain in a vat : your arguements are great i would like to here your opinion on the is he or isnt he forum that should be interesting. I think you would have a great word on it. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/26/2006 3:29:51 PM | I do not condone the institution, but if it is legalized, the diseases would be kept in check.
The damned practice has been around since timne imemorial. | |
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Hezron
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Joined: 12/15/2005
Msg: 119 | |
| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/27/2006 5:58:08 PM | | There are terrible things that happen all over the world in the sex trade to be sure. But driving it underground just makes it more dangerous for everyone involved. The business is goingto go on whether we like it or not. On a moral side...Dropping bombs on Civilian populations seems to be moral...Assassinating democratically elected presidents....moral? Pot...evil....prostitution...evil.....I am really confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/27/2006 11:25:20 PM | By your arguement, we should legalize EVERYTHING that is less 'evil' than
dropping bombs on civilians.
Prostitution will ALWAYS be unground whether you legalize it or not.
For me, if you are so hard-up that you have to pay a hooker for sex, and can't
find a single woman ON-LINE to sex you up, maybe you were meant to die
a virgin. I just don't think you're worthy enough for society to sacrifice itself for.
Think about it...it's the weekend and everybody is partying in the club's. Women
are drunk...blah blah blah - how can you NOT go home with a girl?? | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 121 | |
| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/27/2006 11:44:44 PM | ""Prostitution will ALWAYS be unground whether you legalize it or not""
Why would it be underground when legal??
It is very open in Australia
Well regulated with health checks etc etc
Legal, regulated prostitution is just another business
Most Australian brothels are run by women.
Pimps and drugs have virtually been eliminated
..
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/27/2006 11:51:56 PM | | Only in blue states it should be, That way when the working republican man takes trips to a blue state he has some entertainment besides watching broadway musicals plus it will give the unemployed protesting liberal mom a chance to work. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/27/2006 11:58:47 PM | Why would it be underground when legal?
Infected women carrying HIV, Hep's A, B, C etc. Legal means regulated. It does
not mean you can flout health standards, it does not mean you can spread
disease's without consequences. It means it's time to pay taxes - some women
will find there's no 'virtue' in having to pay taxes when it's their body's that
is being used.
They would accuse the gov't of being PIMPS - I can see it now. If you
didn't respect the law's then, you won't now.
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 124 | |
| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/28/2006 7:21:16 AM | Infected women carrying HIV, Hep's A, B, C etc. Legal means regulated. It does
not mean you can flout health standards, it does not mean you can spread
disease's without consequences. It means it's time to pay taxes - some women
will find there's no 'virtue' in having to pay taxes when it's their body's that
is being used.
They would accuse the gov't of being PIMPS - I can see it now. If you
didn't respect the law's then, you won't now::
What a feeble load of garbage that is
There are more so-called straight people with those diseases than there are sex workers
Check how many people have those diseases in USA and then estimate how many sex workers there are
Unregulated unprotected sex between idiots is what spread them
not safe sex with prostitutes
Regulated means and includes health checks on a regular basis
Your argument above here, is one of the strongest reasons why it should be legalised and regulated
..
. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/28/2006 8:26:01 AM |
Thread: should prostitution be legal?
Short answer no, it’s easy for individuals to make a moral or ethical judgment since prostitution is typical practiced by adults. Since you would be introducing a viable health risk (see legislation) and subsequent social issues it would create a burden on society either through taxes or legislation. | |
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