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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/24/2006 9:19:16 PM | Sum...
!...........yet you say that Quran mentions that we are to read and listen to the prophets and teachers who came before Mohamed.
Muslims believe that the OT we have is corrupt, the original is lost. I would like to know what "books" Mohammed had access to, to add new light to his revelation. By the way I suspect you are dealing with a closet muslim.. | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/24/2006 9:23:10 PM | I thought it was a closet Bhudist! | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/24/2006 9:34:06 PM | | Well we have it on good authority that Jesus was affected by Buddhism, I read it somewhere in a post.. | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/24/2006 9:39:14 PM | Now, now Won Long Pong dont's incite the masses | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/24/2006 9:49:58 PM | | me!! insight the masses, the only masses that concern me is the masses in the RC chrutch...I will now be born again as Thai Song Greet.. | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/24/2006 9:52:12 PM | That has such a humanistic sound to it | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/24/2006 9:56:48 PM | 
Thai Song Greet. Annointed as such. | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/24/2006 10:31:36 PM |
as usual, you do a good job taking things out of context..............i will just quote you mark 14;61
'again the high preist asked Jesus.........."are you the christ?"......."son of the blessed one?"....."I AM", replies Jesus, and he says ---you will see the son of man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty one and coming of the clouds of heaven'
This was the mother of all statements.........and this was the statement to end all statements.....the high priest Caiaphus ended the proceedings right after this....and proclaimed that Jesus be put to death for blasphemy!
Who knows if even the crucifixion happened for real. The Bible keeps using the wordl "According to " all over it, making the text vague and showing that it has been all hearsay. "The Gospel according to St. Matthew", "The Gospel according to St. Mark", "The Gospel according to St. Luke" and "The Gospel according to St. John
1. Why would a Messiah pray for his own rescue?
". . . and began to be sorrowful and very depressed. Then saith he unto them, ‘my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death' . . ."
"And he went a little further, and fell on his face and prayed, saying, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."
(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 26: 37-39
"And being in an agony, he prayed more earnestly;
and his sweat was, as it were, great drops of blood falling down to the ground’’
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 22:44
2. Is he crying to save his skin? It would be highly cynical on his part to do that! Did he not advise others:
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out . . . And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee; for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 5:29-30
We would be doing Jesus a grave injustice if we thought that he was crying like a woman to save his body from physical harm. He was crying for his people — the Jews. They held a queer logic, that if they succeeded in killing any would-be Messiah (Christ), it would be a sure proof of his imposture. For God Almighty will never allow His truly "anointed one" (Christ) 1 to be killed — (Deuteronomy 18:20). Hence the insistence of the Jews as a people, as a whole, in rejecting Jesus, the son of Mary, as their promised Messiah — "The eternal rejection." I agree with Jews on that for sure.
3. The fate of Jesus seems to be pre-determined. Caiphas the High Priest, at the head of the Sanhedrin was a man who would have recused himself in any civilised Court-of-Law, because of his prejudice against the defendant. He had already condemned Jesus to death without any hearing. He had recommended to his Council, even before the case that:-
"… it is expedient for us that one man die for the people, and the whole nation perish not."
(HOLY BIBLE) John 11:50
There was no question of right or wrong; Justice or injustice; it was "EXPEDIENT"! The trial was a farce. In the middle of the night, the Jews had mustered up false witnesses to testify against Jesus. A trial, past midnight was against Jewish practice as far as I know. I don't know how that happened though. Must have been an exception there. lol.
4. There was nothing blasphemous. "Christ" is the Greek translation of the Hebrew word "Messiah," which meant the ANOINTED ONE or the APOINTED ONE. Nowhere was the word Christ equated with God. It is only in the Christian doctrine of the incarnation, where God becomes man. The Jewish expectation of a Messiah, did not identify the Messiah with God. Indeed, the nature of Jewish monotheism wholely excludes such pagan connotations. "Son of God" is also another harmless expression in Jewish theology. God seems to have sons by the tons in the Jewish Bible. I am pretty sure you have seen them all.
5. ". . . We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ, a king."
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 23:2
What??? Christ means a king to the Jews?
Okay, mr passion, you now say that Jesus was a teacher and not the messiah......BUT jesus proclaims himself to be the christ (the anointed one/messiah), and his every action up to the time of his arrest was a challenge to the high priest, to show JUST THAT!......even the act of riding into jerusalem on a donkey before the passover!
I think that has been answered already.
so since Jesus says he is the 'christ' (even in mathew 26;62), you, as a NON BELIEVER (like the sanhendrin) also must accept that he is a BLASPHEMER when Jesus made that statement!...........yet you say that Quran mentions that we are to read and listen to the prophets and teachers who came before Mohamed.......one of which is Jesus...............so then what are you telling us???......that we are supposed to listen to the teachings of someone who was executed as a BLASPHEMER?............The question Caiaphus asked was straight and clear!........the response Jesus gave was straight and clear.......what more do you need!
Nah. The answer isn't straight and clear at all. Check out the explanation above as far as the meaning of Christ goes. I explained to you what the position of the Koran was as you were asking questions directly related to their scripture.
you are certainly free to believe whatever religion you want........if you wanna believe that Jesus was just a prophet as it says in the Quran and that he was misunderstood or misinterpreted as you suggest........then you still have to explain why his own pple chose death for him, because He proclaimed himself to be the "CHRIST" as prophecied in the OT....so tell me about contradictions!
Again, it is none of your busines what I am practicing. I have mentioned that to you a million times and don't want to keep repeating. You only repeat for a fool as he doesn't understand and keeps on asking others about their faith. You should also consider the fact that the disciples had run away, so how did they get the message and actual words of Jesus to write it down? They must have heard it from someone else. Again, heresay and narrations of other people, which puts more doubt in the accuracy of the message conveyed.
^...........if you are reading the NT from the Islamic prospective then it will make no sense at all since the reader is already biased (or brainwashed) to believe that Jesus was no messiah!....but read Isaiah 53, especially line 5..........if the Quran is telling us to read this then what more ORIGINAL verse than this can you find?........."by his wounds we are Healed"........which means by his sacrifice, our sins are forgiven..........he paid the ultimate sacrifice, he paid the FULL price!
If you don't understand 'GRACE', then you will never understand why he paid for his life to absorb or sins........even if you live a 1000 years!.........you will not find that in your Quran!
Like I have said to you before, I have studied Jewish scriptures, Christian scriptures as well as Islam's scriptures and still studying them all. At least the Jewish and Islamic scriptures makes more sense when they talk about monotheism, but there is lots of contradictions that I see in the New Testament, so I am only pointing them out.
So no, don't try to put me in a "box" like you are and fit me in a religion. I have studied all different religions and know about them and learn more every day. I am not "brainwashed" to believe what is being dictated to me without making sense to it.
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/24/2006 10:40:15 PM | Well Passoin
I`m crying about the murder of the bible, and your the one that`s systematically taking the axe to it and yet when I have disputed you on other posts and proved you wrong you have chosen to ignore me and post on another thread. How do you account for that? | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/24/2006 10:49:45 PM | By the way, I think your whole post is like grabbing for straws. Not much worth even refuting except for someone who perhaps is less knowledgeable and who will take your nonscence literally. I don`t understand your point of reference and to not claim where your coming from is very irresponsible in my opinion.
EDIT
perhaps answering a woman is something beneath you? | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/25/2006 7:09:53 AM |
I`m crying about the murder of the bible, and your the one that`s systematically taking the axe to it and yet when I have disputed you on other posts and proved you wrong you have chosen to ignore me and post on another thread. How do you account for that?
You haven't proved me wrong at all. You haven't even answered a single question in my post, so there is no need to debate with someone who keeps on ignoring my questions. I would rather debate with someone who has knowledge about comparative religion and not stuck in a box with one type of religion. | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/25/2006 7:11:12 AM |
By the way, I think your whole post is like grabbing for straws. Not much worth even refuting except for someone who perhaps is less knowledgeable and who will take your nonscence literally. I don`t understand your point of reference and to not claim where your coming from is very irresponsible in my opinion.
EDIT
perhaps answering a woman is something beneath you?
Whether the whole post is grabbing for straw or not isn't the point, instead of attacking that portion, try to come up with wiser answers. You are twice my age. I thought you get mature the older you get. | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/25/2006 7:29:36 AM | I`ve answered questions and been ignored, this is not about comparative religion when your making it so focused. Tell us what you would compare as true.
If you think all books are false, say so. Or is it just the bible?
You have single focus on destroying belief in a book that people have believed in for years yet allow yourself sanction from having your beliefs scrutinised. That`s like shredding someone`s profile and leaving yours hidden. | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/25/2006 7:57:08 AM | `ve answered questions and been ignored, this is not about comparative religion when your making it so focused. Tell us what you would compare as true.
If you think all books are false, say so. Or is it just the bible?
You have single focus on destroying belief in a book that people have believed in for years yet allow yourself sanction from having your beliefs scrutinised. That`s like shredding someone`s profile and leaving yours hidden.
No. You haven't. Go back up my posts and start replying for each one. As soon as I come across something that would indicate it is false, I would go at it. So far, these are all the contradictions that I have come across that I am pointing out. And if you think that I am out there bashing YOUR religion, then you are wrong.
You made me laugh now!!! It is pretty clear that my profile says "Other religion", which means it could exist or not exist at all 'cause I have my own personal answers to things and don't go by usual scriptures that you or other people go by. Plus, comparative religion will help me see how many times God has contradicted itself, pointing out to the obvious.
PS. I am assuming here that you haven't look at my pic and thought look at that "Arab" guy 'cause that is what I have noticed people doing on here. That is my latin side. :) | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/25/2006 8:03:14 AM | I agree with some of Passionate's conjectures. The term messiah, as used in the old testament means a temporal king. A human being who would rule over the Jewish people and restore the Jewish homeland. For a man to claim himself as god would have been sacriligious.Much like King David. It gained much fervor in the daily life of Jews in the wake of the occupation by the Romans.
Crucifixion was not a Jewish punishment. It was a Roman punishment and used primarily for those who were agitating against the state (Roman). As Christianity moved away from it's Jewish roots (thanks to Paul) there was much effort to consolidate it as a Gentile religion. Hence the brushing of the Jews as responsible for Jesus' death.
In addition to the claims of Jesus as a Messiah, there were also other 'proclaimed' messiahs at the time. Paul actually refers to one of these messiahs in Acts. Josephus also records other messianic movements.
Much of the gospels were written in redaction. Suppposed historical events were written to reflect a doctrine that had only been developed after the events took place. Jesus did not develop a doctrine (for example the Resurrection and the belief that he died for everyone's sins)...this was done quite some years after his death by Paul. | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/25/2006 8:21:05 AM | Oh, yeah. Forgot to mention. As an occupied nation, the Jews had no power to try and condemn someone to death in their courts. Their courts were not recognized as the law governing the land.
Also, the Jewish way of putting to death someone was to stone them. This can be seen in the example of Stephen. | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/25/2006 8:24:19 AM | kytasau
Everything you said is obviously true. I have no problem with truth. Speculation being passed off as truth I find irratating. Granted it is my problem that it irratates me but it seems to also be the great theme of this religeous forum and I don`t think I`m exagerating on that.
It would be great to not have beliefs ( however they fall into fact or fiction degree ) bashed constantly. It` seems so childish to me. Is ignoring the insinuations, falsifications, generalizations, giving credence to the words.
Any slam on religion is a slam on the followers. What kind of followers don`t feel protective.
Even a favorite fairy tale being pulled thru the mud I would want to stand up for.
Very much disrespect for what christians hold dear. Find a koran to pic apart for awhile.
You don`t see us doing to you all ( perps ) what your doing. It`s pretty low. | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/25/2006 8:35:16 AM | Kewaydin
I understand where you're coming from. The perspective that I offer is more of the historical/socio/geo/political atmosphere of the time.
Faith is not something that I can or would want to drag through the mud. For me, which might not be clear, there is a huge distinction between doctrinal faith and development of a religion/movement. I will not refute someone's faith/beliefs. I will however comment on the contemporary environment of the formation of that religion. | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/25/2006 8:37:31 AM | It`s very much as I have said before. A master spends everything, time etc on their trade.The work is there for the world to see. They add their right to critisize, stab at etc.
A "Jack of all trades" stands for nothing so thereby has nothing the world can critisize. Perfect camoflage to hurl destructive hate balls from. Pretty childish.
I`m sure soon you`ll have your forum to yourself just as the bullies get the playground.
Then you can call it "all religions but christians and who we next decide not to like"
I`ll leave you with one verse tho "they bragged of all they should be ashamed of"
End times, yes! | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/25/2006 8:45:02 AM | Keywadin. I am unsure if this post is directed to me and what exactly you mean by it.
The development of something and the understanding of it, does not take away from the value placed on it now. For example, there are also myths surrounding the birth of Siddartha Guatama. I recognize those as myths, try and and attempt to understand the formation of them but it doesn't impact what I sense as the truth in the teaching.
Likewise, on my part, there is no disrespect of what you sense as the truth and no wish to offend you. | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/27/2006 9:03:44 PM | at passionm
[-Who knows if even the crucifixion happened for real. -]
there is a helluva lot more evidence that the crucifixition happened than there is about Mohamed receiving a calling from an angel in a cave 6 or 700 hundred years after christ died!
[- Why would a Messiah pray for his own rescue?-]
who says he was crying for his own rescue.........no, he was not crying for his pple,....his death was already pre-ordained(read mark 14;49)............he was struggling against the flesh as he was constantly being tempted to go astray.........tempted by demonic forces, circumstances and even his own apostles sometimes (such as Peter)!.........jesus knew he was going to be rescued by the father, this is why he said: if you kill this temple (meaning his body) he would re-build it in 3 earth days!........he did not fear death, but he knew he would have to be separated from the father!
[-The fate of Jesus seems to be pre-determined-]
^.....you are again wrong.......the fate of Jesus was controlled by Jesus himself (this is why the devil tried to tempt him always).....jesus said: "no one takes my life from me, i will lay it down at the appointed time"
[-"Christ" is the Greek translation of the Hebrew word "Messiah," which meant the ANOINTED ONE or the APOINTED ONE. Nowhere was the word Christ equated with God. -]
^.......this shows that you are too confused or brainwashed to see!.........Caiphus held the throne of Moses......there was no other Jew who was greater than him EXCEPT the Messiah...the Messiah as prophecied in the OT!...........when Jesus answered 'yes' to his question, Caiphus' immediately called for the death sentance because he knew that that was the only one who could supercede him..........but if Caiphus knew the OT as well as he should, then he knew that the true Messiah would be put to death and God would not interfere in the execution........so looking back, Caiphus was actually a Blasphemer himself because he mocked the words in the OT
[-At least the Jewish and Islamic scriptures makes more sense when they talk about monotheism, but there is lots of contradictions that I see in the New Testament, so I am only pointing them out-]
^...........if the issue is "what makes more sense"...then by this, it makes more sense not to believe in God at all!......there is no religious book in existance that could demonostrate the existence of God (more than another)simply by how well it makes "sense"!.........things that make sense to the human psyche all have human origin!...........i look for that which DOES NOT MAKE SENSE from a human standpoint, and when i realize this, then i'll know that it could not have been made up by any human being's thought process.......futhermore, i also know that in order to tap into the meaning of such a thing, one must do more than just read or study........one has to acheive a kind of 'Nirvana' to truly know what is being said by scripture that is of divine origin! | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/28/2006 6:42:13 AM |
there is a helluva lot more evidence that the crucifixition happened than there is about Mohamed receiving a calling from an angel in a cave 6 or 700 hundred years after christ died!
1. What does Muhammad have to do with this? I don't see the connection here. Is that some logic that came from mars or your new innovation. Or could it be the next chapter in the New Testament? Please enlighten us here. Besides, if you have evidence, then present it, don't just keep on writing your own opinion. I am surprise how people reach a certain age and still don't know the art of debating and only expressing their own personal thoughts and opinions without providing some evidence. Try it again.
who says he was crying for his own rescue.........no, he was not crying for his pple,....his death was already pre-ordained(read mark 14;49)............he was struggling against the flesh as he was constantly being tempted to go astray.........tempted by demonic forces, circumstances and even his own apostles sometimes (such as Peter)!.........jesus knew he was going to be rescued by the father, this is why he said: if you kill this temple (meaning his body) he would re-build it in 3 earth days!........he did not fear death, but he knew he would have to be separated from the father!
2. I provided you evidence and verse where he was crying. Where is your verse that he wasn't crying? Start backing up your evidence.
3. You skipped question 2 in my previous post. Try working on that as well.
^.....you are again wrong.......the fate of Jesus was controlled by Jesus himself (this is why the devil tried to tempt him always).....jesus said: "no one takes my life from me, i will lay it down at the appointed time"
4. I provided you verse from the Bible to prove my point. Where is yours? You just keep typing what you have heard in the church and go based on the usual "assumptions".
^.......this shows that you are too confused or brainwashed to see!.........Caiphus held the throne of Moses......there was no other Jew who was greater than him EXCEPT the Messiah...the Messiah as prophecied in the OT!...........when Jesus answered 'yes' to his question, Caiphus' immediately called for the death sentance because he knew that that was the only one who could supercede him..........but if Caiphus knew the OT as well as he should, then he knew that the true Messiah would be put to death and God would not interfere in the execution........so looking back, Caiphus was actually a Blasphemer himself because he mocked the words in the OT
Don't tell me stories on your own. Prove every single point you make. You are totally brainwashed as you aren't reading critically rather type what you have heard and know. Now, you are no longer using the word "Christ" and keep on putting "Messiah". Very interesting. The usual Sum1reel. We don't care if Caiphus was blasphemer or not, answer my question and prove them with evidence like I have quoted you verses.
^...........if the issue is "what makes more sense"...then by this, it makes more sense not to believe in God at all!......there is no religious book in existance that could demonostrate the existence of God (more than another)simply by how well it makes "sense"!.........things that make sense to the human psyche all have human origin!...........i look for that which DOES NOT MAKE SENSE from a human standpoint, and when i realize this, then i'll know that it could not have been made up by any human being's thought process.......futhermore, i also know that in order to tap into the meaning of such a thing, one must do more than just read or study........one has to acheive a kind of 'Nirvana' to truly know what is being said by scripture that is of divine origin!
It surely does make sense that we have been playing with the words of God for centuries and the most significant aspect of Christianity, which is the "Ascension" has been put in the "footnote" of the Bible and removed from the actual verse. It really does make alot of sense.
Page iii, paragraph six of the PREFACE of the Revised Standard Version reads;
"THE KING JAMES VERSION HAS WITH GOOD REASON BEEN TERMED 'THE NOBLEST MONUMENT OF ENGLISH PROSE.’ ITS REVISERS IN 1881 EXPRESSED ADMIRATION FOR 'ITS SIMPLICITY, ITS DIGNITY, ITS POWER, ITS HAPPY TURNS OF EXPRESSION ... THE MUSIC OF ITS CADENCES, AND THE FELICITIES OF ITS RHYTHM.’ IT ENTERED, AS NO OTHER BOOK HAS, INTO THE MAKING OF THE PERSONAL CHARACTER AND THE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS OF THE ENGLISH-SPEAKING PEOPLES. WE OWE TO IT AN INCALCULABLE DEBT."
"YET THE KING JAMES VERSION HAS GRAVE DEFECTS." And, "THAT THESE DEFECTS ARE SO MANY AND SO SERIOUS AS TO CALL FOR REVISION ...." | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/28/2006 8:04:11 PM | at passion
[-if you have evidence, then present it, don't just keep on writing your own opinion. -]
it depends what kind of evidence you want!!...........if you want independant corroborations you can look up the writings of:Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian; also Mara Bar Serapion; Thallus; Tacitus; Pliny the younger; suetonius.......but flavius is the one who makes mention of the crucifixion as does thallus...................if you want physical proof then you are just being absurd!....i could ask you to show me the proof that an angel appeared to mohamed and in what location!........i could also ask, where is the proof that the israelites were in bondage by the egyptians since there is no independant corroboration anywhere else outside the OT and Quran..........it would suprise me that you are even asking this kind of question since you are professiong yourself to be well read........it is just another indication of how biased you are!
[-I provided you evidence and verse where he was crying. Where is your verse that he wasn't crying? -]
^.......i DID NOT say he was not crying, i just just said that he was NOT CRYING FOR THE JEWS (and i gave the reason why he wasn't),........a good student always pays attention to what is being conveyed.......if you don't understand maybe you should find somebody to help you!..................what about your question #2?
[-I provided you verse from the Bible to prove my point. Where is yours? You just keep typing what you have heard in the church and go based on the usual "assumptions".-]
^.........you 'proved' NOTHING!.....that is just your conjecture!.........if anything, the 'proof' lies in the content of the OT.........Jesus handed himself over as prophecied.....no one took his life, he submitted himself at the appointed hour.......it is not an issue of church doctrine, i already gave you the verses!
[-Now, you are no longer using the word "Christ" and keep on putting "Messiah". -]
^.........i don't understand why you are hung up on this......it really shows how confused you are...............Christ is the anointed one, who is also the messiah!!!.......it is that simple!.....Jesus was condemned to death when he said "yes" to the question: "are you the son of the most high?"..........THIS SAYS IT ALL!..........what more do you need!........it is not a matter of whether this is clear or not (it is very clear), but rather, on whether you believe the NT!
[- most significant aspect of Christianity, which is the "Ascension" has been put in the "footnote" of the Bible and removed from the actual verse. -]
^...........who told you that the ascension is the most significant aspect of christianity?...this is one of the most foolish statements you ever made!..................if anything, the RESURRECTION is probably the most significant component of christianity because without there would be no such thing as redemption.......the ascension is automatic for jesus as it was implied when he prayed to the father in verse John 17;5 .......it is only certain churches that make a big deal out of it!
in looking back at my posts here, i don't know why i bother wasting my time addressing your statements since it is clear that your analysis is completely biased......either in deceit or thru pure ignorance!!!!...............you carefully extract and isolate quotations and remove them from their actual context and redefine them suit your interests......and when you cannot do this, then you simply claim that the Bible is inaccurate or has been altered, or that it does not 'make sense'.......so if this is what you really believe (or what you are brainwashed to believe), then why waste time studying it and why would there be anything in the Quran that suggests that Muslims should read Biblical scriptures!....................so you will have to do a better job to improve your deceptive skills!
This is all i have to say! | |
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| Is God insane?
Posted: 1/28/2006 8:10:30 PM | | ^^ An old fart I have never seen in my whole life. He keeps putting me in an organized religion as he is in one. I am not a brainwashed "boxed" type of person as you are. You are getting less and less mature with each post you make. End of discussion. | |
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