| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 2:06:14 PM | You believe in abook but have no idea of it's history? Strange.
well here this will get you started;
500 BC: Completion of All Original Hebrew Manuscripts which make up The 39 Books of the Old Testament.
200 BC: Completion of the Septuagint Greek Manuscripts which contain The 39 Old Testament Books AND 14 Apocrypha Books.
1st Century AD: Completion of All Original Greek Manuscripts which make up The 27 Books of the New Testament.
315 AD: Athenasius, the Bishop of Alexandria, identifies the 27 books of the New Testament which are today recognized as the canon of scripture.
382 AD: Jerome's Latin Vulgate Manuscripts Produced which contain All 80 Books (39 Old Test. + 14 Apocrypha + 27 New Test).
500 AD: Scriptures have been Translated into Over 500 Languages.
600 AD: LATIN was the Only Language Allowed for Scripture.
995 AD: Anglo-Saxon (Early Roots of English Language) Translations of The New Testament Produced.
1384 AD: Wycliffe is the First Person to Produce a (Hand-Written) manuscript Copy of the Complete Bible; All 80 Books.
1455 AD: Gutenberg Invents the Printing Press; Books May Now be mass-Produced Instead of Individually Hand-Written. The First Book Ever Printed is Gutenberg's Bible in Latin.
1516 AD: Erasmus Produces a Greek/Latin Parallel New Testament.
1522 AD: Martin Luther's German New Testament.
1526 AD: William Tyndale's New Testament; The First New Testament printed in the English Language.
1535 AD: Myles Coverdale's Bible; The First Complete Bible printed in the English Language (80 Books: O.T. & N.T. & Apocrypha).
1537 AD: Tyndale-Matthews Bible; The Second Complete Bible printed in English. Done by John "Thomas Matthew" Rogers (80 Books).
1539 AD: The "Great Bible" Printed; The First English Language Bible Authorized for Public Use (80 Books).
1560 AD: The Geneva Bible Printed; The First English Language Bible to add Numbered Verses to Each Chapter (80 Books).
1568 AD: The Bishops Bible Printed; The Bible of which the King James was a Revision (80 Books).
1609 AD: The Douay Old Testament is added to the Rheims New Testament (of 1582) Making the First Complete English Catholic Bible; Translated from the Latin Vulgate (80 Books).
1611 AD: The King James Bible Printed; Originally with All 80 Books. The Apocrypha was Officially Removed in 1885 Leaving Only 66 Books.
1782 AD: Robert Aitken's Bible; The First English Language Bible (KJV) Printed in America.
I have one for you, How come the bible (The divine word of God) lists Bats as Birds we are not to eat? | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 2:10:33 PM | | Humankind is both proud and naive; proud because it thinks is has all the answers and naive because it really does not. Thus, religion cannot be taken as read in the sense of it being truth. What we are left with is faith, if that compels you fair enough, but I need more than faith to act on something in order to commit my life to it. Someone once said to me 'I live in hope of the Bible's truth'... my reply was: I live in hope of certainty. I want to live on positive street not 'hope' street. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 2:12:59 PM | TREW
your right about a lot of things. YES, my mistake, I'm an ignorant human being. how uncommon is that?? :P
Well maybe I shouldn't be making any factual information because I know that it can always be argued against...especially with me; I'm not well educated as you can tell:P when it comes to this stuff:P. I just follow my heart more than my brain. Anyways, I just think that there is more to this life than what was given to us. I guess my next question can be is "What is the purpose of life?" | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 2:15:42 PM | TREW
As i said....i'm not knowledgable.......I've only been following this for 2 years........and as i said..........I follow my heart and not my head. Here is a question..........Why is there so much sin in this world?? How was it created?? Why do we know that sin is the wrong way to live a life, yet we still do it?? | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 2:17:43 PM | Moreno
"So how did they know back then when the Bible was written about dinosaurs roaming the earth?? Yet man has only recently figured it out. That little bit of truth is what changes my thinking."
I am not sure why I am attempting to educate a person who is obviously not on my level intellectually but....
How do you think modern man determined that there were dinosaurs? Times up...bones my dear. Do you not think that maybe just maybe there may of bones lying around all through history that were found to generate such assumptions...or did they suddenly appear in the last 200 years for we modern men to discover.
Here are on of many facts to ponder regarding fundamentalist type thinking such as this...
-Did you know that evangalist christians and baptists have the highest divorce rate (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm) and agnostics and atheists have the lowest...interesting is it not.
You have definetly drank the kool aid...LOL
But as I said believe whatever you like. Just do not propose to base this completly unsubstantiated assumptions on those less worthy of such ignorance. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 2:21:13 PM |
First of all, being worried that your intellectual integrity would come of harm is summed up into one word---PRIDE
And what is wrong with pride. Pride leads to confidence, which leads to success, which leads to happiness. I've never really gotten the whole pride is a sin thing. Pride in some instances can lead to bad behavior, but it can also be a very good thing. There are many positive uses of this word in our culture.
"Proud to be drug free"
"You should be proud of this"
"Proud to be an American"
etc.
This is actually one topic that I disagree with the bible on strongly.
Fact: A man has one less rib bone than a woman
Biblical: Woman was created from the rib of Man; the story of Adam and Eve.
Scientific explanation: ?? I don't know, maybe someone can inform me on that one
to answer that read this.
DUE to the pre-eminence of the Adamic creation story in western civilization, no portion of the human skeleton has generated more literary consideration than the ribs. That anatomical part was especially intriguing, before the rise of modern science, because it is commonly believed that all human males had one less rib than females. The beginning of the clash between biology and religion can be traced to Andreas Vesalius, the founder of modern anatomy, who boldly stated that the rib cages of both sexes contain the same number of bones. In 1543 he wrote: "The ribs are twelve in number on each side in man and woman ... The popular belief that man is lacking a rib on one side and that woman has one more rib than man is clearly ridiculous, even though Moses, in the second chapter of Genesis, said that Eve was created by God from one of Adam's ribs." 1 Vesalius received heavy criticism from churchmen for stating an easily verifiable empirical fact.
http://theologytoday.ptsem.edu/oct1976/v33-3-article5.htm
and this is from a religious journal. Your fact seems to be quite fictional there.
Fact: There are about 4000 different languages spoken in this world
Biblical: The Tower of Babel; people spoke the same language and wanted to discover who God was; long story short God implimented different languages so they couldn't work together
Scientific explanation: ?? I don't know, maybe someone can inform me on that one
A basic understanding of linguistics and etymology will explain this pretty easily. The only reason new languages are not cropping up so much anymore is mass communication. When people mostly lived in isolated villages linguistic trends changed over time and eventually the language became unrecognizable over the course of hundreds of years. This is not surprising at all.
Fact: There is no other lifeforms in this universe or any other.( I state this as a fact because neither I nor YOU have witnessed such......therefore it can be stated as a fact
Biblical: God created only the lifeforms on this Earth
Scientific explanation: There are other lifeforms throughout the universe.
You state this as a fact because you havn't witnessed it? If that is the logic we are working with then why the hell do you believe in GOD? Have you seen him? I could explain everything you could possibly use to support GOD's existance to support the existance of aliens as well.
I am not saying they exist, but to say that they definitely do not simply because you have not seen them is absurd and I do not see how this would in any way support the bible anyway. There is nothing in the Bible that imply's an exclusive relationship with GOD. It does not state explicitly that GOD had no other creations before or after us. Where is your support for this supposition.
Fact: People NATURALLY go against the story of the Bible...make fun of religion or reject it
Biblical: The Bible explains how and why they do that....and they will continue to do that
Scientific explanation: ?? I don't know, maybe someone can inform me on that one
People do this because it is not supported scientifically and cannot be proven. To some people believing in the bible is akin to insisting that Santa exists in your forties.
I could say anything absurd that I wanted and follow it up with 'and people will mock me for believing this' and suddenly it is more true?
And there is no such thing as a "bad christian", just an "unbelieving christian".
I think you have that backwards. "Unbelieving christian" is a contradiction of terms, and there are many people who profess to be Christian and believe in the bible who lead live I think you would have no problem labeling as "bad".
Lastly you have stated that the Bible tells us not to use drugs.... where? I seem to recall there being a discussion about this before and there being no passages that support this supposition. If I am mistaken thats fine, but I'm not entirely certain the Bible even says this.
I am not attacking your faith, just your logic, which seems to be severly flawed. Also I would highly advise you to finish reading your book before trying to convert others. You might find that to be helpful to you. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 2:25:13 PM | | In the Old Testament............there were things that were not suppose to be eaten. I think it had something to do with the uncleanliness of the animal(not physically, but in some other form)...........There are things in the Old Testament that don't apply to this day. If you ask me why, i cannot tell you. I don't believe anybody can know everything about a certain topic (ie cars, sports, cultures, languages) in 2 years. All I know is that the importance of Jesus is significant in our lives (The New Testament)...............and once again....everybody has their own choices | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 2:33:37 PM |
As i said....i'm not knowledgable.......I've only been following this for 2 years........and as i said..........I follow my heart and not my head.
Ok, so you have been a devout Christian for 2 years and you have yet to finish reading the Bible?
Lets look at this closely. You have a book that you believe contains all the great truths of the world, all the secrets of life, and you havn't bothered to read it for 2 years!?!
They say ignorance is bliss. Your goal must be happiness then.
I wish you luck on your journey and am glad you found your way, but it would probably be for the best if you avoided trying to convince other people of anything regarding faith if this is your approach. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 2:36:41 PM | Words can be the same, but you can use them in different dialect and they would mean something different.
For example,
The man BEAT the woman
BEAT can mean HIT OR WON IN A COMPETITION
The same goes with pride.........a person can have confidence, but they don't have to have pride. I was telling the story to a girl who i know about how me and my ex broke up. One of my good guy friends stepped in and said............"He dumped that stupid bit@h." What was the purpose in that??
The kind of pride i was referring to was the pride of the ego...........not about pride of being who you are.
Once again........it's with the heart and not with the mind | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 35 | |
| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 4:03:42 PM | Fact: A man has one less rib bone than a woman
Biblical: Woman was created from the rib of Man; the story of Adam and Eve.
Scientific explanation: ?? I don't know, maybe someone can inform me on that one
How 'bout this scientific explanation of your "fact".
It's false. Check any anatomy book. Men and Women have 12.
Fact: There are about 4000 different languages spoken in this world
Biblical: The Tower of Babel; people spoke the same language and wanted to discover who God was; long story short God implimented different languages so they couldn't work together
Scientific explanation: ?? I don't know, maybe someone can inform me on that one
No need for science here, you are commiting an error in logic.. While the fact is true, your use of this fact as a conclusion to the premise is based on logical fallacy post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Fact: There is no other lifeforms in this universe or any other.( I state this as a fact because neither I nor YOU have witnessed such......therefore it can be stated as a fact
No it can't, in order to do this you have to survey the entire universe with a microscope to confirm (neither you nor I have done so). This is a fallacy of distraction known as, argumentum ad ignorantiam .
Fact: People NATURALLY go against the story of the Bible...make fun of religion or reject it
Biblical: The Bible explains how and why they do that....and they will continue to do that
Scientific explanation: ?? I don't know, maybe someone can inform me on that one
Again, no science needed here, you are consistant though, all of your proofs rely on false logic/flawed reasoning.
A) the "Fact" isn't a "fact" - it's an opinion.
B) The theological explanation of the unconfirmed resolution, uses circular reasoning or the fallacy of petitio principi | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 4:27:29 PM | "Fact: A man has one less rib bone than a woman"
I can't stop laughing over this one. Like Late pointed out, every statement in that post is an egregious logical fallacy, but this just about knocked me on the floor with laughter. Yes, and eating an apple seed will make an apple tree grow in your stomach. Thank you for that little bit of amusement. I seriously can't stop laughing.
You know what the worst form of pride is? Willful ignorance. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 6:24:28 PM | I have one for you, How come the bible (The divine word of God) lists Bats as Birds we are not to eat?
I have heard this question before somewhwere . Seems like it was asked 5 weeks ago ,and it was answered 5 weeks ago.
I hope Enviro Concsious forgives me for re posting her answer to your question. But since it was asked again, it just seemed right for the answer to be posted again.
Here is the answer, again: This is from 5 weeks ago, the answer is by Enviro Conscious, who I consider to be a very knowledgeable expert on the bible.
posted: 12/16/2005 8  17 PM Trewq, As I have told you before it is silly to debate semantics when you don't even have the words. You wrote: Like listing "Bats" as one of the "Birds" we're not suppose to eat? doesn't that "contradict current proven scientific facts"? This is again a mistranslation...the word was not bird but 'flying creature'
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On topic: I have no reason to NOT believe. That is why I DO believe. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 6:47:32 PM | "Hey...Go gentle with him. He has already said he doesn't know alot and he's still learning."
It's not that he was in error that was so funny; it was how absolutely sure he was of himself, and every single FACT! was either an urban legend that most 12 year olds know to be false, or a blatant fallacy of logic. It was the combative tone of his self-assured insistence that was so funny.
FACT- The moon is made of green cheese! How do you explain that?
FACT- There are over 4000 styles of dance in the world. Apollo was the god of dance. Can science explain that?
FACT- Atoms only exists on earth; this must be true, because we've never observed their existence anywhere else.
FACT- People are naturally resistant to Freudian psychoanalysis, which psychoanalysis predicts, so it must be true.
Okay, now I have a real fact-
FACT- this guy needs to go back to school. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 6:54:58 PM | Now I`m getting pissed. A flicker of a flame isn`t there for someone to come along and blow out. Wonka why so harsh?
Edit
I thought he was being inquisitive not combative. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 6:57:52 PM | "Just like the recess schoolyard...tsk/"
How do you figure? Sorry, but if he is going to post with such bluster and bravado, then he had better get his logic and facts straight, or he should expect to be trounced. Go back and read the post (msg 17) that everyone is making fun of, and tell me that his tone wasn't combative. It is more the tone in combination with the fact that it was riddled with errors that everyone is reacting to, not just the fact that it was riddled with errors. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 7:07:32 PM | | Actually Wonka...after reading Post 17 it just confirmed for me anyway that he 'was just following his heart' and 'that he didn't know very much...was just learning'. Didn't read that as combative. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 7:07:51 PM | My point is purely that someone that comes up , saying they are just learning (repeatedly saying ) obviously trying to get an interaction of ideas going, should be given the oppurtunity to do that.
What happened to if you don`t have anything nice to say.... that would at least give oppurtunity for some one with more patience to speak with out fear of getting there ribs BBQ`d
Ok I sound like someone`s mother, but man you guys can get really harsh. No offence Wonka, but I think you would go easier on someone in your own platform... | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 7:11:53 PM | First of all, Stalin was "following his heart." I just don't buy that as a justification for willful ignorance. Secondly, his format was clearly throwing down a gauntlet-
FACT: blah blah blah
FACT: blah blah blah
FACT: blah blah blah
If you throw down a gauntlet, you had better have the chops. It's like Pee Wee Herman jumping into the ring with Mike Tyson and saying- FACT: "I can whoop your ass."
"I think you would go easier on someone in your own platform..."
I have trounced people in my own platform. I've gone after the non-religious for similar reasons, so you are wrong. Unless of course by "my platform" you mean people who employ sound logic. In that case I wouldn't have anything to attack, because their logic would be sound. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 7:16:03 PM | OK Guy, your on your own
Edit
Sorry Wonka , I trust your judgement.. Maybe he should come at things better equiped...
Murky waters..
Becauce everyone is flouncing should be a reason for you not to. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/24/2006 7:17:21 PM | | Willful ignorance. I understand the term but don't feel like it can be applied here since he backtracked many times and stated he was 'just in the learning stage'. | |
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