| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/25/2006 12:51:45 AM | Wonka.........
I wasn't comparing knowledge to steroids; I was simply stating that there are things in this world that are not good for you. Perhaps good for you to learn about, but not good for you to accept (ie steroids).......I was simply using another analogy as you had been. I am learning everyday, but my knowledge mostly comes from people and their experiences, not so much from books. But here is a question for you that may be a little off topic but relates. I didn't know much before I was converted and I still know very little about the Bible now that I am converted (as you can tell:P). Why did I convert??? I KNEW NOTHING. I know you may respond with an answer such as "How do i know why u converted??? or You converted for your own reasons". Yes I know why I converted. It was a question not really wanting you to answer, but moreso a question that I would want you to think about. But whatever about me..........what about other people in this world who were in the same situation??
OK so different things happen to different people to make them convert.....I understand that too. So here is another question that I asked earlier which once again, changes tune, BUT it is still a valid question to ask. What is the purpose in life??? Is there none??? And who gives us this purpose ( that's of course if there is a purpose)??? | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 77 | |
| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/25/2006 1:04:43 AM |
What is the purpose in life???
It depends on the individual, it usually involves living though.
Is there none???
Sometimes
And who gives us this purpose
"what" gives us this...
purpose
n 1: an anticipated outcome that is intended or that guides your planned actions; "his intent was to provide a new translation"; "good intentions are not enough"; "it was created with the conscious aim of answering immediate needs"; "he made no secret of his designs" [syn: intent, intention, aim, design] 2: what something is used for; "the function of an auger is to bore holes"; "ballet is beautiful but what use is it?" [syn: function, role, use] 3: the quality of being determined to do or achieve something | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/25/2006 1:07:26 AM | God reveals himself everywhere of course.......The Bible is instruction of life and proof of being truth in itself. In order to assemble something properly, you need an instruction manual or else you would be lost on trying to put something together. Faith is very hard to sustain when you believe in God, because like everything else........people need to see to believe. We are naturally unbelievers. But i'm not implying that I don't have any faith nor do other believers. And i'm not implying that I don't believe in God. That is something that I am working on and once again, you cannot know everything or be perfect in something within 2 years.............as a matter of fact you cannot be perfect in anything you do.
And yes, I understand that you are not trying to convince me taht God doesn't exist. Yes I know I need to increase my knowledge. But even then, you can only know so much. And so when I'm 90.....people can still continue to say that to me, or to other people. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 79 | |
| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/25/2006 1:36:35 AM | God reveals himself everywhere of course.......
Sorry, this is too subjective for, "of course".
The Bible is instruction of life
One of many.
and proof of being truth in itself.
Proof?
Here's the latin again: Petitio Principi, or Circulus in Demonstrando (Begging the Question/Circular Argument)
Explanation
An argument is circular if its conclusion is among its premises. Such arguments are said to beg the question . A circular argument fails as a proof because it will only be judged to be sound by those who already accept its conclusion; anyone who rejects the argument’s conclusion will also reject at least one of its premises (that which is the same as its conclusion), and so will reject the argument as a whole.
Examples:
Since I'm not lying, it follows that I'm telling the truth.
We know that God exists, since the Bible says God exists. What the Bible says must be true, since God wrote
it and God never lies.
(Here, we must agree that God exists in order to believe that God wrote the Bible.)
The Petitio Principii fallacy can easily fool people who do not yet understand this distinction.
In order to assemble something properly, you need an instruction manual or else you would be lost on trying to put something together.
I can assemble a peanut butter sandwich having never read the instructions to do so, I can build a snowman just by observing that snow accumulates in a ever growing sphere when I roll it.... etc.
as a matter of fact you cannot be perfect in anything you do.
"a matter of fact"?
No, I can be perfect in completing a task ie: Test Score, I can have a perfect record, ie: no speeding tickets, etc. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/25/2006 2:19:16 AM | | one thing before I hit the bed for tonite............i said you(or "we" is more politically correct) can't BE perfect in anything we do. We can perform perfect tasks........but that doesn't mean we ARE perfect in what we did. The task we performed was perfect..........but WE never come close to being perfect. That's the pride kicking in then.....Anyways.....I'm tired, i'm gonna hit the bed and I'll reply back tomorrow when I wake up....my brain isn't functioning right now:P | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/25/2006 4:15:06 AM | I can understand the preferance of interactive learning over reading a book, but to believe in the Bible for 2 years and still to not have read it fully seems somewhat ... negligent.
Yes there is a limit to what one can learn in two years but I can plow through a longish book in less than a week. If we say that the bible is in effect two longish books, lets say one month at the longest. Its not like your religion has a 12 volume desk reference set that you are expected to know and understand.
If I had a book that was 3000 pages long that I fully believed contained the ulitmate truths of the universe and would answer every important question I had about life, you would not be able to stop me from reading it and in fairly short order.
The bible is not nearly that long and is the foundation of what you purport to believe offering all those answers that are the very core of your chosen faith. There simply is no excuse for not having read it given how long you claim to have believed.
As to how convenient everything seems to be in how the world is put together... Thats because it grew up together that way. God was not needed for plants to grow fruits that contained seeds that animals would in turn eat so that they would poop out the seeds preplanted in a pile of fertilizer. Nature and vast ammounts of time could easily see to this mutually beneficial arrangement. Our bodies are shaped the way they are because this is the form that time proved to be most effective.
You will never be able to use logic to successfully prove or disprove the existance of GOD. It is not possible. If it were possible to prove GOD exists, then faith would be meaningless and free will would be jeaprodized along with GOD's great unknowable plan. This can be seen as the reason any attempts to "Prove" his existance have often been the subject of quite a bit of ridicule. It can no more be done than draining the ocean with nothing more than a bucket and gusto. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/25/2006 5:42:42 AM | Message 26:
now I think differently. I accept people’s beliefs just as I hope people would accept my beliefs."
No one is saying they do not accept your beliefs; the thread is "What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???" Since you do know why, why not leave it to those who want to express their reason/s and leave it at that? | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/25/2006 8:13:04 AM | "But even then, you can only know so much. And so when I'm 90.....people can still continue to say that to me, or to other people."
You are absolutely right. See you're getting better at this already. That's my whole point. You should never be finished learning. It is an ongoing process, and there is more knowledge in the world then any one person could absorb in a lifetime. The wonderful thing is that many things relate, so the more you learn, the better you get at recognizing the connections, and you develop a sense for what is more useful to study, and what is just noise. You could memorize the cast of every sitcom that was ever produced, which might fare you well in a game show, but won't do much for increasing your analytical skills, or you could study Chemistry and Physics instead. So, study, and never stop studying. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/25/2006 9:20:13 AM | What is the purpose in life???
Why must there be a purpose?
And as to Bird vs Flying creature, this points out a MAJOR problem with the Bible (which was the thrust of the thread referenced), Translation. Enviro Conscious response was from the Greek translation and as far as I can find out is the only translation that does not use the word Birds. The only copy of the bible (OT) you can be sure of is the 1st, Hebrew, all others are tainted by human hands.
And I am not trying to deny God, I just think people should understand what it is that THEY believe and not just parrot what others have told them.
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/25/2006 9:41:35 AM | Purpose?
"Little Insects"
-Richard M. McCord II
While thinking in a field of green
I asked, "Why am I here?"
Then, looking down
Upon the ground
I tried to bring the image clear.
The busy little worker ant-
He serves the ruling Queen.
With no questions asked
He carries out his task.
Could his True Purpose be so lean?
Ah, the creeping, crawling spider-
It spins it's sticky thread
To catch a fly
'Lest it die.
"Whose Purpose is grander, " I said.
The swift, silent bee.
"What is his Purpose," I fuss.
Well, you see
That little bee
may wonder the same of us. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/26/2006 7:56:07 AM | | Moreno: Ultimately, the reason to not believe in God is one word, "WHY". All people have been granted this divine question which has enabled them to do great things. Not everyone has been granted the divine sense of God. Why? And those that are granted the divine sense of God (like yourself) are in constant conflict with others' interpritations of those beliefs. What many non-believers agree on is this, "Why would an all-mighty God allow so much conflict and war in his name?" Just look around your home town at all the differing denominations of the same monothistic religion. They all agree on the same God but disagree on the interpritation of the Bible. So then the truely inquisitive search for the truth of "Why". They find that their inquisity leads to knowledge which leads to enlightenment and that the knowledge of the Bible reinforces the reduction of human suffering and is a useful tool in the quest for "Why". So to answer your question, many feel that the Bible is a good start, but there is more knowledge if we keep our minds and souls open. Safe travels to youo all. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/26/2006 8:29:32 AM |
In the END....it's an attempt to escape....whatever it is we think we need to escape to.
Somehow...floating about on a cloud singing Allelujahs doesn't cut it for me...but for many it does.
I think this is a gross oversimplification of the spiritual need in many humans. Years ago when visiting Bali I was amazed at how they had incorporated their beliefs into a living life style.. I could have stayed there forever..and all those cute gals..I love petites.. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/26/2006 8:54:20 AM |
Religion/ GOD...all the blood that has been spilled in the Name of God?...*meh*...
Thats a fallacy, while there have been wars fought in the name of religion these have just been excuses. You think the whole Irish thing is about religion? The Israeli/Palestian problems about religion? Resources are what wars are fought about... | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/26/2006 10:03:51 AM | Wars are fought for control of people and/or resources.
Ancient World Empires
Which of these world empires ever fought against,
or conquered another nation, due to religious beliefs?
Egypt - not over religion
Assyria - not over religion
Babylon - not over religion
Persia - not over religion
Greece - not over religion
Rome - not over religion
Ancient and Modern War Leaders
Nebuchadnezzar - did not fight over religion
Egyptian Pharoahs - did not fight over religion
Alexander the Great - did not fight over religion
Roman Caesars - did not fight over religion
Attila the Hun - did not fight over religion
Genghis Khan - did not fight over religion
Napoleon - did not fight over religion
Hitler - did not fight over religion
Mao - did not fight over religion
Stalin - did not fight over religion (in fact, he fought for non-religion!)
Saddam Hussein - did not fight over religion (in fact he killed others of his own religion!)
18th-19th Century America
Since 1776, America has fought ten major conflicts - and none of these centered on religion.
In fact, prior to the Cold War against Communism (which was political and economic,
not religious),
20th Century World
Is there any evidence that before the advent of the world's great religions human beings behaved in a less warlike or murderous manner? Hardly. The opposite is the case. Man has never needed religious excuses to make war, and the 20th Century was no exception:
World War I - not over religion
World War II- not over religion
The Cold War - not over religion
The Korean War - not over religion
The Vietnam War - not over religion
The Gulf War - not over religion
The Middle East and Ireland
The Arab-Israeli conflict, the continuous fighting in Northern Ireland, may have some religious elements -but the lines drawn among these people are predicated on a territorial base, with the religions of those particular regions being used as convenient labels. For example, there are Palestinian-Jews, and Jewish-Arabs. Further, the Irish and English have been warring with one another since the 14th century -that's 200 years prior to the Reformation! The fact that people who are religious fight each other does not mean that religion caused the fighting.
I like what James has to say in the KJV bible
(James 4:1 KJV) From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
(James 4:2 KJV) Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
(James 4:3 KJV) Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume on your lusts | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/26/2006 10:13:50 AM |
The fact that people who are religious fight each other does not mean that religion caused the fighting.
...but ya sure do get a bunch of loonies in the bin don't cha?
What about the Martyr's of Islam blowing themselves up in the name of Allah!!!
Don't tell me that ain't religious..lol...Promised 7 virgins and the lot of it in the afterlife....Would you Believe otherwise if you were NOT religious?
[ or...maybe theyz all just kookie?****oaches running around in the brain cavity instead of neural synapsis?] | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/26/2006 10:23:26 AM | Enig..
There are exceptions to every rule. But again these suicide bombers while religious believe they are in a war against the tyranny of the West, not because the West is "christianised".. | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/26/2006 10:34:29 AM |
My intellectual integrity can come to harm, for one thing. There is no direct evidence for god, whereas there are theories which explain things far better, more rationally, and which have predictive power. There are unexplained things, and we may or may not understand them at some point, but there is no need to invoke god to explain them. Besides, any moral or ethical principles can be derived from mutual benefit, psychology, and biology - in fact, they have, and someone codified them and tried to add force to the ideas by invoking god. Not necessary, but perhaps helpful.
Also, invoking god has no explanatory power, really. If you claim that all things must be created, for example, then what created god? The explanation for reality as we know it is then only pushed back one step, and the search for understanding is wrongly stopped at the point where the non-explanation of god is invoked.
Finally, as a Buddhist/Taoist, I recognize a spiritual component of humanity that those religions address beautifully, while still being fully in accord with any scientific ideas. Those religions embrace knowledge and questioning rather than denying the fruits of human endeavor. Those religions also do not have a god or gods - we are all an intimate part of a greater reality, so there is no distinction between us and that. Those religions focus on helping people achieve a direct realization of this through the path to enlightenment.
Is your intellectual integrity worth your eternal soul? Because you see no physical proof that he exist is that worth it too if the answer is yes well that is your choice if it is no you might want to search for answers | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/26/2006 10:45:07 AM | Because you see no physical proof that he exist
Is it enough to believe cause someone told you rather then use your brain and figure it out for yourself? What if "they" are wrong? | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/26/2006 11:42:57 AM | Exodus 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."
Exodus 22:20 "He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. they must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
Deuteronomy 13:1-5 "If there arise among you a prophet, ... saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them...And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death...So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee...."
Psalms 79:6 "Pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name."
John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
In this passage, Jesus is speaking to Jews who, like the majority of the residents of Palestine, rejected his teachings. He says that they are sons of Satan.
You wanted to know what harm could come of it? The troubles in Ireland are because of it, the problems in many african countries are caused by it,it was ussed as an exuse for bothe world wars, it was an exuse for colonialism and for the aceptance of the slave trade. It was the reason that the Americas were concored and the natives put to death, it was the reaon for the inquisition and the withc trial, it was the reason for the subjecion of the Scots by the English, it was the reason for the crusades, it was the reason that David Berkowitz was driven to kill 6 people.
So what harm can it do then? | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/26/2006 11:47:29 AM |
i said you(or "we" is more politically correct) can't BE perfect in anything we do. We can perform perfect tasks........but that doesn't mean we ARE perfect in what we did.
Speak for yourself... I hapen to know many women that will atestto the fact that I am the perfect lover!   | |
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| What reason do you have NOT to believe in God???
Posted: 1/26/2006 12:02:14 PM | Dragon, fair enough. My point was really that religion is not the cause of warfare, mankind is..I just see that religion seems to take the blame for what ills us.  | |
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