| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 1/17/2005 12:17:06 AM | Ok, from what I'm reading, ALPHAMALE was not a sarcastic reference to me. I thought maybe our difference of opinion had gone to a new level, but I'm happy to report that it has not.
Nick | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 1/17/2005 12:18:19 AM | | Yeah,joefixit...especially when he has to attack little girls.He could've insulted my* looks if he wanted to be dirty,...but what kind of a degenerate pig makes fun of a babies looks? Especially when he doesnt even have the, uhh..'nads' to post his OWN pic. Scumbag...pure and simple. | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 1/17/2005 12:18:54 AM | "Im starting to think that maybe swift isnt human at all!!!!! he knows the real secret behind WMD.....hes a pilot...hes immune to DU and! and!! he converted a honda into a very very very costly hydrogen car....all in one week!......get this kid on Leno! so what amazing feets can we all expect in the coming week!!!......stay tuend fellow POF forumers...should be good!"
your a hoot. it was a science project, get over it. i still have a gasoline car. | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 1/17/2005 12:21:29 AM | Propane burns much more efficiently than gas... Gas engines are only like 32%-40% efficient. Even diesels are better than that at 47%, but I think that Propane burns at like 67% efficiency. That is a pretty significant jump if you ask me. But for now, I'll stick to the hybrid cars. Does anyone have one? They are pretty impressive. I think when I buy a new car I'm gonna have to get a Toyota Prius.
Nick | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 1/17/2005 12:24:07 AM | | all you need is a simple kit to convert a normal car to run on hydrogen. and although i did it almost a year ago if i wanted to it could be done again in a week. | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 1/17/2005 8:53:44 AM |
i didnt say he was smart, but remember he does not have the power to go to war. congress does and instead of getting pissed at him why not the 500+ congressmen who voted for the war
Good point man. I think its often over-looked how the ball-less Democrats in office sold out their own party and voted for the war. The same nutless wonders are now going to accept torture-guy Gonzales as Attorney General.
But that's an indictment of the Democratic leadership, not the Democratic party. I have a feeling that over the next four years the hacks at the reigns of the party right now will soon find themselves on the outside looking in.
But concerning the war, while they missed the chance to be critical of the intelligence handed them the fact remains that they voted on the information that was given to them by the Bush administration....
Intelligence that was cooked up and cherry-picked to look like Iraq posed a WMD threat. | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 1/17/2005 8:56:10 AM |
Also, the war is about oil. Don't you see the oil prices? This revolution in the oil industry is going to lead to its DESTRUCTION. Haven't you seen the future in automobile technology? Hybrid and alternative fuel cars are popping up all over the place. Plus, with the war still going on, several thousand oil wells have been SHUT DOWN causing the oil company stock that Bush, Cheney and all the rest of the world have to PLUMMIT!!! The truth of the matter is, if Bush was thinking about oil, he would have struck up a treaty with Saddam, not overthrown him.
BFG, provide sources for any of the crap in the above paragraph. It's hard to believe any of it.
Uhh, except for the oil prices going up part that is... | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 1/17/2005 8:57:52 AM |
Well, folks, the fact of the matter is, he received a bachelor's degree from Yale University in 1968, then served as an F-102 fighter pilot in the Texas Air National Guard
Daddy's got a big influence.... | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 1/17/2005 1:05:43 PM | "Good point man. I think its often over-looked how the ball-less Democrats in office sold out their own party and voted for the war. The same nutless wonders are now going to accept torture-guy Gonzales as Attorney General.
But that's an indictment of the Democratic leadership, not the Democratic party. I have a feeling that over the next four years the hacks at the reigns of the party right now will soon find themselves on the outside looking in.
But concerning the war, while they missed the chance to be critical of the intelligence handed them the fact remains that they voted on the information that was given to them by the Bush administration....
Intelligence that was cooked up and cherry-picked to look like Iraq posed a WMD threat."
agreed, but it doesnt change the fact that we are already there. packing up and leaving will be just as bad as invading as this point in the war. | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 1/17/2005 1:10:15 PM |
agreed, but it doesnt change the fact that we are already there. packing up and leaving will be just as bad as invading as this point in the war.
Tough call, I admit. But if the presence of American troops is what is really the fuel to the insurgency fire, then the only way to douse it is to remove the troops.
Better now than after another 1000+ American deaths... And thousands more Iraqi civilians... | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 1/17/2005 3:27:24 PM | | we dont want to be there everyone can agree. but leaving premature is not the right thing to do. its hard to say what exactly will happen, my thought is the saddam loyalist will slaughter every iraqi who supported the war and wants change for there is no police, we can leave but leaving it to an anarchy whould be halfass. looting whould return, raping etc just like the day saddam fell. but everyone can have their threory and maybe its right or not we will both just have to wait and see. we put a man on the moon, it was considerd a great feat. maybe we will do another great feat and change a goverment for the good of the mid east. | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 1/17/2005 7:19:48 PM | erikasbay
Thank goodnes there are still intellectual thinkers in America but with Bush cutting 90,000 Pell grants this year I wonder "How many will be left?". No child left behind. What a joke. He has cut all health care for immunizations of children and health care across the nation. We are becoming a third world country where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Same Reagonomics from the 80's when all of the S&L's went under Texas was bankrupt only this time it's worse. If you really want to educate yourself on Bush go to Costanzo.org and Impeach-bush-now.org. How many people must die in his name? | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 1/17/2005 7:25:16 PM | | go to Costanzo.org and read Bush's record. For all of you idiots who are too dumb or selfish to care about our country. All in the Name of God, right? That is exactly what Hitler did before he instated the Patriot Act and eliminated all of the German's now American's right to a trial by jury. All they have to do under this act is call you a terrorist and they can arrest you and torture you and kill you with no attorney or trial by jury. Read the Patriot Act before you respond. | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 6/13/2006 6:46:36 AM | The above writer is correct. To pull out now would lose many lives, though not all American. Let's say we stay the next three years before the full pull out. That seems about where this is going
It an estimate between liberal and conservative.
When we finally pull out we would be looking at far fewer deaths all together than if we stayed.
I am not saying it was right that we went in. I am just saying it is wrong to cut and leave a mess. Pulling out now would be leaving a mess.
If you are worried about what the rest of the world will say, what will they say if we pull out and everything just falls over.
A lot worse than if we do it proper and everything is not in chaos.
We leave now, it is quite possible a neighboring country will over throw them. Think about it, Iran having twice the resources. I am not sure I like that.
Do you?
Greg | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 6/13/2006 11:32:33 AM | Greg,
While I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion, I think your points must be strongly considered. However, my reservation against allowing that becoming the guiding principle in our decision making is based on another question: How long can we afford to throw our tax money and resources at the Iraq problem?
How long will the US be able to ignore other needs while we deal with this one?
What's to be gained?
We've spent (so far) at least 300 billion dollars attempting to control an oil producting nation whose total output is no more than 20 billion dollars per year and there's no end in sight. Iraq only produces 4% of our oil needs. Could we possibly control the rest of the middle east enough to keep ANY of those nations from boycotting us and really hurting our economy?
What would happen if Iraq did that?
Are we prepared to attack them?
For all Bush's sabre waving, I think not...
Are we making ourselves stronger or weaker by fighting this war?
With Bush's huge debt and China's ascendance as a world economic power, might we be undermining our own interests by staying in Iraq?
I think this whole policy of trying to dominate the world through our military has been pushed about to it's limit and we haven't really done anything but gotten ourselves in hot water.
Here's an interesting article from October 2002 about how and why this war started...
from: http://www.projectcensored.org/Publications/2004/1.html
"...Over the last year corporate media have made much of Saddam Hussein and his stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. Rarely did the press or, especially, television address the possibility that larger strategies might also have driven the decision to invade Iraq. Broad political strategies regarding foreign policy do indeed exist and are part of the public record. The following is a summary of the current strategies that have formed over the last 30 years; strategies that eclipse the pursuit of oil and that preceded Hussein's rise to power:
In the 1970s, the United States and the Middle East were embroiled in a tug-of-war over oil. At the time, American military presence in the Gulf was fairly insignificant and the prospect of seizing control of Arab oil fields by force was pretty unattainable. Still, the idea of this level of dominance was very attractive to a group of hard-line, pro-military Washington insiders that included both Democrats and Republicans. Eventually labeled "neoconservatives," this circle of influential strategists played important roles in the Defense Departments of Ford, Reagan and Bush Sr., at conservative think tanks throughout the '80s and '90s, and today occupies several key posts in the White House, Pentagon, and State Department. Most principal among them are:
·Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, our current Vice-President and Defense Secretary respectively, who have been closely aligned since they served with the Ford administration in the 1970s;
·Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, the key architect of the post-war reconstruction of Iraq;
·Richard Perle, past-chairman and still-member of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board that has great influence over foreign military policies;
·William Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard and founder of the powerful, neo-conservative think-tank, Project for a New American Century.
In the 1970s, however, neither high-level politicos, nor the American people, shared the priorities of this small group of military strategists. In 1979 the Shah of Iran fell and U.S. political sway in the region was greatly jeopardized. In 1980, the Carter Doctrine declared the Gulf "a zone of U.S. influence." It warned (especially the Soviets) that any attempt to gain control of the Persian Gulf region would be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the U.S. and repelled by any means necessary, including military force. This was followed by the creation of the Rapid Deployment Force — a military program specifically designed to rush several thousand U.S. troops to the Gulf on short notice.
Under President Reagan, the Rapid Deployment Force was transformed into the U.S. Central Command that oversaw the area from eastern Africa to Afghanistan. Bases and support facilities were established throughout the Gulf region, and alliances were expanded with countries such as Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq.
Since the first Gulf War, the U.S. has built a network of military bases that now almost completely encircle the oil fields of the Persian Gulf.
In 1989, following the end of the Cold War and just prior to the Gulf War,****Cheney, Colin Powell, and Paul Wolfowitz produced the 'Defense Planning Guidance' report advocating U.S. military dominance around the globe. The Plan called for the United States to maintain and grow in military superiority and prevent new rivals from rising up to challenge us on the world stage. Using words like 'preemptive' and military 'forward presence,’ the plan called for the U.S. to be dominant over friends and foes alike. It concluded with the assertion that the U.S. can best attain this position by making itself 'absolutely powerful.'
The 1989 plan was spawned after the fall of the Soviet Union. Without the traditional threat to national security, Cheney, Powell and Wolfowitz knew that the military budget would dwindle without new enemies and threats. In an attempt to salvage defense funding, Cheney and company constructed a plan to fill the 'threat blank'. On August 2, 1990 President Bush called a press conference. He explained that the threat of global war had significantly receded, but in its wake a new danger arose. This unforeseen threat to national security could come from any angle and from any power.
Iraq, by a remarkable coincidence, invaded Northern Kuwait later the same day.
Cheney et al. were out of political power for the eight years of Clinton’s presidency. During this time the neo-conservatives founded the Project for the New American Century (PNAC). The most influential product of the PNAC was a report entitled "Rebuilding America's Defense," (www.newamericancentury.org) which called for U.S. military dominance and control of global economic markets.
With the election of George W. Bush, the authors of the plan were returned to power: Cheney as vice president, Powell as Secretary of State, and Wolfowitz in the number two spot at the Pentagon. With the old Defense Planning Guidance as the skeleton, the three went back to the drawing board. When their new plan was complete, it included contributions from Wolfowitz's boss Donald Rumsfeld. The old 'preemptive' attacks have now become 'unwarned attacks.' The Powell-Cheney doctrine of military 'forward presence' has been replaced by 'forward deterrence.' The U.S. stands ready to invade any country deemed a possible threat to our economic interests..." | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 6/13/2006 6:47:54 PM | correction to the above post:
What could we do if Iran boycotted us?
What if the Saudis boycotted us again?...
What could we do to stop it with so many of our soldiers tied up in Iraq?
We've made ourselves a sitting target for what we went into Iraq to deter: The Threat of a middle east oil boycott.
Would any or all of those nations be able to boycott us while we're trying to control Iraq?
You know they would...
Would we be able to stop them?
I don't think so.
Could it cause our whole economy to come to a grinding halt or cause the price of oil to soar to over $100 a barrel if even Iran boycotted us?
Believe it.
What's the point of us having our troops over there now that saddam is gone?
How long before the Arabs call our bluff?
Now do you think we should still be in Iraq?
I don't... | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 6/13/2006 9:49:59 PM | You can't help but wonder at all the bleeding hearts who disgrace our own country with
pacifistic crap, while ignoring the words of the VERY SAME PEOPLE they "take up for".
The ARAB world supporting the "Islamization" of the entire WORLD.(see Europe NOW)has been very vocal and clear in saying, "Make no mistake ,this IS the Crusades continued, for those who have been asleep till now, please understand we having been working to achieve this goal for 600 years(Iranian president). This was in being asked directly what he thought about certain sectors calling this latest struggle a "Crusade".
As for your sinister "professors" with their elitist agenda...If you had a CLUE what they have in mind for what they consider the "rabble" , (that's you too.).....At a minimun you wouldn't let them do your thinking for you. Ideally you would stand up to these people and reveal what their true motivations are. | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 6/14/2006 12:51:05 AM | Latest news after an unannounced visit:
"I've come to not only look you in the eye. I've also come to tell you that when America gives its word, it keeps its word — that it's in our interest that Iraq succeed," Bush told al-Maliki.
Al-Maliki, speaking in Arabic, thanked Bush for U.S. protection....
"God willing, all of the suffering will be over, and all of the soldiers will be able to return to their countries with our gratitude for what they have offered," al-Maliki said.
"There's a worry almost to a person that we will leave before they are capable of defending themselves," Bush said .. after his trip to meet with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060614/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bush_iraq | |
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| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 6/14/2006 2:17:32 PM |
You can't help but wonder at all the bleeding hearts who disgrace our own country with
pacifistic crap, while ignoring the words of the VERY SAME PEOPLE they "take up for".
Can you come up with just ONE original thought please? ... instead of throwing what you heard on the radio or wherever today in everyone's face and insulting our intelligence?
Is Europe all "Islamic"?
Of course not. No more than the US is all Mexican. They hire immigrants to do the jobs nobody else wants and they all live in the suburbs, where the rents are cheap. So much for the crazy domino theories that got us into this mess... and Viet Nam before that.
Iran and Iraq had a TEN YEAR LONG WAR before we invaded. Reagan's the guy who made them dangerous by giving them chemical weapons. So much for your "Islam is taking over the world" line of stuff.
Why don't you crack a book and get some knowledge instead of just spewing?
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Ken_Sr
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Joined: 5/27/2006
Msg: 100 | |
| This is how Bush's Iraq mess is shaping up
Posted: 8/6/2006 11:44:29 AM | I have watched this post for some time now, all I can do is sit and shake my head.
I would like every one that has posted here to try something, go the the library and look at some of the old history books. You will be amazed.
Question: What people founded this country? It was people from almost every country, every walk of life. With one goal, that was to have a free country where all people would be free of the oppression of government.
How many men women and children died for this cause?
Do you know what the Declaration of Independence is?
Do you know when the term Republican and Democrat started?
Do you know the purpose of this?
What you don't seem to understand is that all of these people stood together for one cause,
and no matter how big of a force came at them they prevailed. That is why you are able to have this topic in this forum. When the people of this country stood together with one voice
and one goal they were unstoppable. For this reason the people had to be divided so, there was no common voice to stand together. The masses are governed by the few and keeping the masses divided the few are able to keep control. Until everyone realizes no change will happen unless we stand together with one voice and one common goal as they did in 1776
the few will continue to have control. Stand up for masses not the few, don't allow them to tell you what and how to think. A fence has been put between us for a reason it keeps all races against each other. Divided we are the few, united we could be unstoppable.
Don't you think it is time for the people to take back control of this country? I do!
You think it is bad now? Then what do you think it will be like for our children?
It's time for a change!!!!!!! | |
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