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Posted: 1/28/2009 1:12:17 AM | | I prefer short men, I think they are wonderfully sexy. Most of my dates have been men shorter than 5 ft 8. My ex fiance was 5 ft 5 and I'm 5 ft 4, and I thought he was perfect. My previous partner was 5 ft 2 and the height didn't worry me. A lot of women prefer short men, so don't get down about height. | |
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Posted: 1/28/2009 10:00:34 AM | Years ago, I worked at Exhibition Park Race Track in Vancouver. I filmed the races and showed the films to the jockeys and the trainers the day after the races.
Most of those jockeys were a tough bunch. Many of them had tall, flashy women.
Attitude, money and excitement must have trumped height.
Or maybe the women were fascinated with guys who could sit in their lap. | |
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Posted: 1/28/2009 10:07:49 AM |
I prefer short men, I think they are wonderfully sexy.
I feel the same way about tall women. I'd love to date a giant. | |
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Posted: 1/28/2009 10:42:33 AM | I like men taller than me for one simple, and likely shallow reason. I don't like towering over my man. I'm 5"8 so that can be a problem sometimes, but then again I like wearing high heels and that's never going to change. If I'm wearing a pair of stiletto's and look like the jolly green giant next to my date, it's just not cool.
It sucks because I'm sure there are a lot of amazing men who fall just a little too short on the height scale, but I can't change my preferences just by wishing them away! | |
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Posted: 1/28/2009 10:55:20 AM | | For me...I like my men to be at least three inches taller...making them 5'8", I guess I like to feel that a man is protective of me. But...who knows...maybe the right guy could change my mind... | |
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Zain.
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Joined: 9/20/2005
Msg: 431 | |
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Posted: 1/28/2009 1:38:37 PM |
"I find your denial of the importance of physical attraction truly shocking"
uhhh weren't you the one who married someone they weren't physically attracted to? talk about the pot calling the kettle black. | |
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| Shallowness; Guys vs Girls
Posted: 1/28/2009 2:29:42 PM | Jon,
With your race example: I know what you're saying. If one's racism runs deep, then it can still be a shallow judgment. I agree. I'm not putting it both ways, so let me clarify...
Racism would be comparable to the Napoleon Complex. It's a shallow stereotypical judgment about someone. In both scenarios, regardless of how deep it is, that is a shallow assessment (notice in my quote I didn't mention Napoleon). But both won't be instinctual. It's a conscious judgment. Regardless, in both cases or in any case, attraction itself is never shallow. It's a romantic appeals issue. You can't blame anyone for personally draws them in on a romantic level -- there is no right and wrong, and fairness does not play a role. However, that lack of attraction -could- be linked to a shallow judgment, or it may not be. Don't assume it always is. And if you want to call them out, you have to base it on them expressing a shallow judgment -- not just "I'm not attracted".
You can't assume a lack of attraction = shallow judgments underneath.
We can split hairs over certain scenarios, but this is the bottom line:
1) There's nothing 'shallow' about being sexually attracted to one person over another. Attraction is not a choice. Thus, no blame can be given. Period. A woman's breast size, a guy's height, a woman's voice, a guy's swagger... if it plays too big or too little a role in one's sexual attraction, it doesn't matter one bit!
2) ASIDE from that, there may or may not be judgments underneath it all. If a woman will only date a guy with a deep voice, she may or may not have an assumption that guys with non-deep voices have less testosterone. One should just deal with it and not waste time playing guessing games about "why".
If a woman refuses to date a guy based on a shallow judgment about -him-, then yes, she's being shallow. That's judgments on what she should have, and if they hinge on a shallow set of values, then yeah, that's shallow.
If a woman sees you as unattractive because you're not taller than her -- that's not shallow. Attraction isn't a choice. It isn't shallow or otherwise. The only known judgment is that your height doesn't match hers (in heels?). It's not a judgment about you as a person. Additionally, her attraction is based on something commonly natural.
If a woman sees you as unattractive -only- because you're not taller than the average guy -- her attraction's still not shallow. However, this one would beg questions about her self-esteem, and then beg questions about judgments about -you as a person-... which may or may not exist. She may just say "that's just what appeals to me". | |
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| Shallowness; Guys vs Girls
Posted: 1/28/2009 3:34:17 PM | | look...every one has a right to who they date..and if a woman doesn't want to date a guy because he is deemed to short for her..i dont think anything is wrong with that..sure it can be hurtful and frustrating sometimes or what not..but thats the way dating is..its not a big deal... | |
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Zain.
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Joined: 9/20/2005
Msg: 434 | |
| Shallowness; Guys vs Girls
Posted: 1/28/2009 4:24:38 PM | ^^^
Of course everyone has a right to who they want to date, that's not the issue the point is if someone does not want to date someone because of a physical trait they have no control over then people have a right to put out that it's shallow behaviour.
as you say, it's not a big deal right? | |
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| Shallowness; Guys vs Girls
Posted: 1/28/2009 4:34:32 PM | | ^^ would you date a woman that was born with both a penis and a vagina?..would you date a woman that was in a wheelchair? you get the point?..just because you someone doesnt want to date someone because of a physical trait etc they have no control over, it makes them shallow!..would you date a woman that was 6feet 8 inches? | |
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| Shallowness; Guys vs Girls
Posted: 1/28/2009 4:47:05 PM | As long as a guy is taller than me - which isn't really hard - I'm more than happy to date them.
The so-called short guys are not so short in my opinion. I would happily date someone 5ft 7 - 5ft 11.
I prefer that to guys over 6ft tall. Now that to me is way too tall.
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Posted: 1/28/2009 5:09:08 PM | | You know what, accept it and live with it. The fact that it posts so much only furthers the discrimination. I have dated taller women who are insecure about how tall they are. Why do you want a shallow girl anyway? She will always be comparing you to other men, true love is blind, I know this because of the women I have dated. It's true that you have less options but in a way it's also a blessing you have a natural b*tch filter. Think of it like that and know that you rule no matter what dawg! peace. | |
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Posted: 1/28/2009 5:34:24 PM | I'm 5'2", if I round up.... I like 'em tall, my theory is that way I can even out the gene pool and my future kids have a chance at being 5'4"... 
On the other hand... my ex was 6'8" and used to be a bouncer in Montréal... basically I was a dwarf dating Andre the giant. It makes for awkward make-out sessions and sick jokes like "You're the perfect height, you don't even have to get on your knees"
Long story short : we're all the same height in bed. | |
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Posted: 1/28/2009 6:11:25 PM | Formula for height is acutally this when it comes to kids (this is accurate most of the time)
For Boys
FAther's height + Mothers height +13 Cm/2
For Girls
FAthers Height + Mothers height -13 Cm/2
2.54Cm=1inch
So if I am 5'8" and I concieve a child with a girl of 5'6" that child (if a boy) has a pretty good chance he's going to be at least 5'11" or 6'0" this is assuming he is healthy and nurtured properly. Most women wonder why they have short kids when their husband is tall, it's actually cause you're short not your guy.
Much Love ppls,
PEace | |
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Zain.
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Joined: 9/20/2005
Msg: 440 | |
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Posted: 1/28/2009 6:30:55 PM | ^^^^
hence why i notice the overwhelmingly high amount of guys who are taller then their fathers. My mom is short, while my dad is tall. I'm only 5'7'', I got my shortness from her. Same goes with alot of short guys I know almost all of them have fathers who are above average height so marrying a tall guy is no guarantee that your kids will be tall, there is still a good chance they will get their shortness FROM YOU
"would you date a woman that was born with both a penis and a vagina?..would you date a woman that was in a wheelchair? you get the point?..just because you someone doesnt want to date someone because of a physical trait etc they have no control over, it makes them shallow!..would you date a woman that was 6feet 8 inches?"
This argument reminds me of this one argument I had with a guy who claimed homosexuality is a "choice" and that people are not born gay when I replied that I don't believe homosexuality is a choice he answered "are people born to be muderers and rapists?" As if to imply homosexuality is the same as murder.
The same logic applies here You're taking one thing and equating it with something that's totally extreme. Being short is not the same thing as being a shemale or being in a wheelchair they are not the same thing at all. I would not date a shemale, I believe the reason to that is quite obvious as for a woman in a wheelchair I would not rule that out completely (suppose my wife or SO got into an accident and lost her ability to walk?) as for a 6'8'' woman if she looks like Uma Thurman or Maria Sharapova, reel her in!
Truth is, we are ALL shallow to some degree, we can't help it, however some of us are more shallow then others. and shallowness is not typically behaviour that should be encouraged. | |
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Posted: 1/28/2009 6:38:35 PM | Blakeman, I know genetics and there is no rhyme or reason to height, so that theory doesn't apply. I'm the tallest in my family and am a female. I have male cousins who are 6'4", but relatively short parents. Then there are the genetic disorders that pop in out of nowhere, but that's another discussion.
But I agree with you about the b*tch filter. As long as they're open to women of all heights, shorter guys really luck out in the end because they weed out the women who only care about outward appearances, i.e. "what will others think." That's what I tell myself and other tall female friends. The stupid guys who don't like tall women are missing out on great women and tall women have a natural a*hole filter that way as well. When I was on Match, I used to purposely wink at shorter guys who only wanted short women, just to make a point and show them that they're idiots. A shorter guy who dates a taller woman and taller woman who will date a shorter man, are great couples, because it shows they are very secure with themselves and don't care what the idiots of society think. What you're attracted to naturally is one thing, but the people who think "women must be shorter than the man" are idiots and should try moving into this century and try losing their insecurity. | |
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Posted: 1/28/2009 6:51:49 PM | My main problem with the whole height thing is that it's not acknowledged as being a problem. I mean, people show sympathy and recognize a bias for overweight/obese people (which I might add is in almost all cases, a lifestyle problem -- which they can change), but yet, shorter men are just suppose to "deal" with it.
It seems heightism is the only thing that constantly faces scrutiny. I mean, a freaking obese person can defend themselves, and not only will it be justified, but others will defend them as well, but when it comes to height, ha! OMG you have a Napoleon Complex! Don't go around that guy he's mad about his height! Funny.
For example, I have a sloven friend. Not in the sense that he doesn't bathe or whatnot, but his overall appearance is terrible -- I mean bad -- and he's overweight by about lets say 80lbs. He's confident, talks to a lot of women as well. The point is he gets turn down a lot, but they never tell him it's because of his weight or appearance, they always make up an excuse, such as "I have a boyfriend". Admittedly, I haven't spoken to too many women, however, it seems none of them ever hesitated to tell me they wouldn't date me because of my height (yep, without getting to know me or anything). Case in point is it seems everything has a euphemism or it's a known bias, but when it comes to height? None at all.
I have a huge problem with people who state that things are "just how they are", or "that's what we're born to like/do." What? Really? so you guys came out the womb thinking, "man, I just have to get married one day", damn, (insert race) is (insert generalization) or "I know when I grow up, I want me a tall guy!" I mean, I'm pretty sure I didn't come out thinking all White women were bad (I was taught not to date them). The thing is YOU'RE TAUGHT EVERYTHING YOU KNOW AND BELIEVE! Yep, that's right, do I have to say it again? YOU'RE TAUGHT EVERYTHING YOU KNOW OR BELIEVE! You're not born a racist, a misogynist, or a misandrist. For the most part, you are taught or go through experiences that make you think this way, you're not born thinking any of this retarded stuff. I mean, we might can't control who were are attracted to, but that doesn't mean you were born not attracted to a shorter male, you were just taught that a guy is suppose to be taller, provide, protect, etc.
The sad part is most people can't think for themselves. They're always looking for the answer from someone else. "I wonder what my parents will think of him", my friends, hell society in general. Fact is that you're not even strong enough to think for yourself, and that's why you couldn't truly date a shorter men (I even show leeway, if you're taller than me, I have no problem, but if I'm clearly inches taller than you... yeah). Even sadder is most people smoke and drink all day, scared to face the real world. They're always looking for an excuse or justification. "I was drunk so I wasn't in my right mind, or oh, my religion is this, so that's why I feel I need to tell/judge you". You guys never want to take responsibility for your own actions -- you always looks for excuses. Stating that, I know my height has been a huge halter in my life -- job and dating-wise -- I still take 100% responsibility for not be successful. at least I won't make excuses (although if you go through this thread alone, you'll learn that heightism is real).
With that said, I'm short, but a very courteous guy (noticed how I said guy? I know how you guys hate the word nice). I had to lean how to be a no-nonsense courteous guy, though as in I won't entertain BS). I guess that throws that Napoleon Complex thing out the window, right? Which has been stated before that it's only a excuse to try to justify a generalization or discrimination that holds no credence at all. And from my own personal experiences, woman do hold higher value on height than honesty. I was honest about my height which caused me not to land the date... damn!
I remember a few months back, a 6'7 guy started a thread that went along the lines of, "Are women intimidated by taller men." Now I don't know if he was actually being serious or just wanted some profile views -- but it certainly worked. Pretty much every woman stated that they liked taller men, and some even REQUIRED IT! Well, I guess no surprise there.
So, in turn I made a thread myself entitled, "Are women intimidated by a big penis." The only thing thing I put was that some women get scared when I pull it out and tell me they changed their minds. Not only was I called a liar, but I was antagonized for my height, lol. By women and men alike, with statements such as, "OMG, I bet he's just a short men with a little d***, and "some short guy with a complex, lol" One hour later thread closed. But the 6'7 guy -- who I'm sure would never have a problem getting a woman -- threads stays open, and gets all the praise in the world. I mean clearly, that had to be a joke thread, or a thread just to get profile views. I should also note I never mentioned my height in the thread, but they viewed it and came to those conclusions. I also responded, but never with any enmity or deprecation; hell, I was actually laughing.
All I'm saying is that heightism isn't even recognized, but it's bigger than everyone thinks, and it's not a thing to just 'brush off'. Of course there's always exceptions to the rules -- as well as the sycophants -- and if you're never faced heightism -- rather in the world of online dating or in real life -- then great for you, but I have throughout my whole life. I do MUCH better on sex dating sites (wanna take a guess as to why?) than on normal dating sites -- which I've given up both. But, man, I use to cringe when they asked that one question. No matter how many emails, how much chemistry, or how much we had in common, once they asked how tall I was, I knew 9 times out of 10 that was the end of the conversation (ever notice how they ask how tall you are, and not what's your height? hmm...); either it was the end, or they'll go ahead and finish the conversation, but never mail me again. I can't believe a woman would even say something like I prefer, err, I mean require taller men for genetic purposes. I mean that's fully acknowledging height bigotry, but yet you still trying to justify it with excuses like it's just what you prefer.
Bottom line is people need to start thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for their own actions. The only excuse I'll take is if you tell me that you're too dumb to make your own decisions, so you only go by what others tell you. So unless you're telling me you're too stupid to make you're own decisions, then there is no excuse for heightism as in all other ism (nepotism, racism, gender discrimination, etc.) As always there are exceptions to the rule, and I don't cater this towards everyone, just my experiences.
So to all you people who can't think for themselves because everything is 'implanted' in your brain, and you can't change your though process yourself -- good luck to all you sad, weak-minded people. The only people who uses those excuses are weak-minded and vacuous people. Hopefully one day you'll wake up and realize that nothing is embedded in your brain, and you can change your state of mind if you wish. Only then can you reach satiety, and maybe one day live an idyllic life. Thanks! | |
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Posted: 1/28/2009 7:16:12 PM | Jack, you should look in the mirror when you write your post. You said yourself that you'd never date a white girl. That's just as bad as a woman who doesn't like short guys. And what about all the white guys who only like short Asians? Or the guys who only like dark-haired girls? That's just as bad and yet that gets overlooked way more than the short guy thing. Isn't that just as bad? Its funny how short guys who complain conveniently overlook the women who say they like shorter guys, yet focus on those who don't.
Also, I'm pretty sure your penis thread was closed because its gross and inappropriate. How is the tall guy's post offensive? He wasn't being crude. | |
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Posted: 1/28/2009 7:41:40 PM | Jack, you should look in the mirror when you write your post. You said yourself that you'd never date a white girl. That's just as bad as a woman who doesn't like short guys. And what about all the white guys who only like short Asians? Or the guys who only like dark-haired girls? That's just as bad and yet that gets overlooked way more than the short guy thing. Isn't that just as bad? Its funny how short guys who complain conveniently overlook the women who say they like shorter guys, yet focus on those who don't.
Also, I'm pretty sure your penis thread was closed because its gross and inappropriate. How is the tall guy's post offensive? He wasn't being crude.
I thought I should have clarified that part. Forforumfun, I don't see color at all. I was taught, well told, I better not bring a White women home. This made me -- for years -- not even take notice to them. Now, I date any woman -- no matter her race.
Not liking anyone for something they can't change isn't right, so I don't agree with any of it. I think people are too close-minded, and that's where they fail. It's also because of the fact that height is almost always the main thing women look for. A women wanting a taller guy is prevalent, but hair color isn't that big of an occurrence -- but it's wrong, IMO. Conveniently overlook women who like shorter guys? It's not that I overlook them, it's that I've never met one, lol. A woman that ONLY liked and dated short guys I should say. I only complain (well, speak up on it) is because no one else will, except maybe another shorter guy who could empathize with the situation. And also because no one can give a rational explanation to why don't don't like shorter men. I like how you ignored the rest of my post about how people are taught these things, rather than being inherited, though. Very "convenient" indeed.
As for the tall guy's post. My point was, a tall guy made an absolute redundant post to get profile views, and not only did he accomplish that, but he got praise as well. I made a penis thread (and it was pertaining to sex, in the sex thread, and there are penis threads, correct?) and got antagonized for my height. Rather the thread was dumb, redundant, or had no point, was it right to attack me on my height, which I didn't even bring up? That was my point. Thanks! | |
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Posted: 1/28/2009 10:03:12 PM | allav200 makes a good point. We choose from among the people available to us. Hopefully we find that we did well, given the options we have.
As far as men's height, it seems clear that many women, maybe 2/3, find it to be a major issue. I bet if you identified any other single factor, though, you'd find that many women have preferences that many men don't meet. Same with genders reversed.
A man's height is one of the factors that may limit the people available to him. That this may frustrate some men, especially on-line where stats are more isolated and easier to focus on, is understandable. The "unfair" argument, in its various forms, seems off base though. Something can be unfair only if you're being denied something that you're entitled to. I don't see where anyone is entitled to have anoyone else find him (or her) attractive. | |
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Posted: 1/29/2009 3:02:54 PM |
Formula for height is acutally this when it comes to kids (this is accurate most of the time)
For Boys
FAther's height + Mothers height +13 Cm/2
For Girls
FAthers Height + Mothers height -13 Cm/2
2.54Cm=1inch
So if I am 5'8" and I concieve a child with a girl of 5'6" that child (if a boy) has a pretty good chance he's going to be at least 5'11" or 6'0" this is assuming he is healthy and nurtured properly. Most women wonder why they have short kids when their husband is tall, it's actually cause you're short not your guy.
This is all true, but it reminds me of the United States' presidential election where Obama had to continue to insist that he wasn't a Muslim. But almost no one took a moment to say "what's wrong with being a Muslim?"
The same thing is going on here. When she said that she doesn't date short men for genetic reasons, instead of going on about how short men come from short women...someone could have at least said "what's wrong with being short?"
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Posted: 1/29/2009 3:15:53 PM | | Like I said, that little genetic theory is NOT true. If it were, then why is my mom short and I'm almost as tall as my dad and I'm female? Why are my sisters all different heights then too? Some people with their bozo theories, pretty sad. | |
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Posted: 1/29/2009 4:37:24 PM | | My ex bf was like 5'3 to 5'4 somewhere in there so height was not an issue for me weight however would be another story I like slender to medium built men | |
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Posted: 1/30/2009 5:22:48 AM | I think height has taken a lesser importance nowadays. Like I posted on another thread, I am noticing MANY more women who are TALLER in the relationship.
I think at one point, there was this "I like tall men because they make me feel secure" mentality, but me thinketh it has changed. | |
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| Shallowness; Guys vs Girls
Posted: 1/30/2009 7:31:53 AM | would you date a woman that was born with both a penis and a vagina?
Hmmm...I guess that depends on how you define "date."
I've dated a number of women whose genitals I never saw.
On the other hand, I'm trying to imagine an earlier age. Let's say I date this woman for months and months. We are celibate. I fall in love with her. Our families bond. The marriage date is set. On the wedding night I discover the physical anomaly. What do I do? I have one. She has one. But she also has what she ought to have. Is the thing that I have, that she has, in the way of the thing that she should have, that I have sought?
I think I'd be torn and confused.
I suppose I could get an annulment.
But what if I said, "Oh what the hell" and just went on with it.
I guess I might get used to it. Maybe learn to love her uniqueness.
Who knows?
Fortunately, premarital sex has pretty much been the rule for me. | |
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