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| Rugby vs. Football
Posted: 5/10/2007 1:14:24 PM | Oh yes, here we go money. Well it seems pretty obvious it's gonna come down to that with americans. We love our sports over here for what they are...sports, not money making ventures. And to use fiscal factors in making the claims you did is scraping the barrel. Good grief man, to admit you americans pay so much for such trash is something of a faux pas.
As for your mentioning snooker...duh?
And cricket? Freakin' heck man...where ya goin'?
And feel free to challenge my opinion...I like it. Just don't mind if a few of us challenge yours.
Many people in the rest of the world watch a variety of sports...because there is lots of different sports. The fact that you and many americans don't is clear from your posts. This may explain, by the way, why the attendance figure aren't as big as NFL's...there's a more diverse attitude to sports watching and following over here...more competition for spectators.
Mass x velocity? Did you watch that Aussie rules video??????? See any padding and sexy lycra???
Still, american footy is not as tough as rugby, or for that matter Aussie rules, and that's the debate here. Jeez man, it's so obvious! Do you work for the government over there by any chance? Were you involved in collecting that fabled Iraqi weapons of mass destruction evidence that was so...well not founded on fact? Do you have a problem accepting reality? | |
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Posted: 5/10/2007 2:28:35 PM | i have just googled and discovered that some NFL stadium have more than 80000 spectators.
say, Buffal Bills or Tennesse Titans have a stadium with 80000 spectators more or less and both of them surely get sold out. therefore, logic says that they get more attendance than Man United as Old Trafford has 65000 more or less.
that same logic says that Barcelona get more spectators than the Titans or Bills with 100000 spectators every Sunday.
anyway, to have a stadium with more spectators has NOTHING to do with having more and more loyal supporters as none country in the world can beat the English or the Scottish at supporting a sporting club.
even a small English team, say, Milwall Football Club has more loyal supporters than any NFL, MLB or even spanish clubs.
and as for rugger attendance, it must be said that it gets a very high attendance at Wales, England, Ireland and Scotland, i mean, the 6th Nations. an attendance similar to any football match | |
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Posted: 5/10/2007 2:56:44 PM | "Many people in the rest of the world watch a variety of sports...because there is lots of different sports. The fact that you and many americans don't is clear from your posts."
That's just an idiotic statement. There are more pro sports leagues in the US than in any other country. I dare you to try to prove otherwise. I referrenced the $$$ because that is a good indicator of popularity. Think those TV networks would pay that kind of money if fans weren't watching? Do you think, Pedro, team owners would spend millions on 80,000 seat stadiums if fans weren't watching? Do think there would be at least 2 dozen national sports tv networks showing everything from bowling(which gets better ratings than soccer or rugby) to boxing to sailing to cycling to womens sports to auto racing? That's not counting the other dozen or so regional sports networks.
"As for your mentioning snooker...duh?
And cricket? Freakin' heck man...where ya goin'?"
Hey you're the one that said you folks in Europe like the "manly" sports...if you consider those "manly" than your whole ignorant arguement makes sense.
"Just don't mind if a few of us challenge yours."
I don't mind....but there's a difference between challenging and insulting just to get a rise out of somebody.
I watched the Aussie Rules video....not impressed.
"Still, american footy is not as tough as rugby, or for that matter Aussie rules, and that's the debate here. Jeez man, it's so obvious! Do you work for the government over there by any chance? Were you involved in collecting that fabled Iraqi weapons of mass destruction evidence that was so...well not founded on fact? Do you have a problem accepting reality?"
And we will, i guess, stay on opposite sides of that debate. That's OK. If you don't get interested over in American football that;s fine with me. I think it was a dumb idea to schedule a regular season game out of the US anyway. I think rugby is a fine sport despite what horrible ambassador you are for it. And you really missed your shot at me about Iraq......I think Bush is complete moron and I'm ashamed of him(even though I didn't vote for him either time) and i've always been against the Iraq war. Nice of you to display your infatuation with stereotypes again. You must be pretty sharp to conclude I was a Bush support from a few posts about sports.
"not founded on fact?"
Much like your posts where it does seem clear you are incapable of differentiating between fact and your own opinion. | |
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| Rugby vs. Football
Posted: 5/10/2007 3:08:53 PM | Remember, you're in a minority in holding the view you do concerning your sport...period. Debates of this type are intended to give folks the opprtunity to air views...and the concensus is certainly not in your sports favour, not here nor in the rest of the world. That you've made the claims you have and backed them up with such specious arguments is pretty weak.
And once again, sarcasm lost on you...I'm not sure what political views you have...didn't intend to infer anything other than a refusal to accept the obvious. But hey, we both live in democracies...you stay over there with your views...I'll discus mine with the rest of the sentient world who enjoy real mens sports.
Cricket? Nah, still don't get your point...we enjoy a variety of sports...some more subtle than others...some more brutal than others.
"I watched the Aussie Rules video....not impressed." Says it all my fine feathered friend. | |
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| Rugby vs. Football
Posted: 5/10/2007 4:20:19 PM | On the comment about attendances, I found this interesting:
Attendance
Football is the most highly attended spectator sport in Australia: government figures show that more than 2.5 million people (16.8% of the population) attended games in 1999
As of 2005 the AFL is one of only five professional sports leagues in the world with an average attendance above thirty thousand (the others are NFL and Major League Baseball in the United States, and the top division soccer leagues in Germany, and England).
Considering Australia's population of only 20 million - 2/3rds that of California's for example - it's a strong and interesting statement. | |
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Posted: 5/10/2007 8:01:09 PM |
none country in the world can beat the English or the Scottish at supporting a sporting club.
I can't speak for an entire nation-the US is entirely too diverse-but I will put forth that nobody -I said that; NOBODY- supports their team more than the people of Wisconsin support the Green Bay Packers. Period. What other team in the world has a waiting list for season tickets that is over THIRTY YEARS LONG?
Some tidbits from packers.com:
Most Unique Team In Sports
* No owner (last remaining publicly owned pro sports team, 4,750,925 shares, 111,967 stockholders, none of whom receive dividend on initial investment).
* Team plays in major sports' smallest TV market--69th (Jacksonville, 52, is closest).
* Team has averted four financial collapses: 1921, 1922, 1934 and 1950, each time gaining monetary support from community.
* In a century of franchise movement, only 10 other pro sports teams -- none in football -- have held same moniker in same location longer (nine baseball, one hockey).
* Packers have most fans in league based on recent Harris polls, merchandise sales and Web site attraction. Plus, team sells every available seat at Lambeau Field for intra-squad scrimmage, "Family Night."
* Before radio, when Packers played on the road, as many as 500 fans turned out at Legion Park to "watch" game on Playograph board (telegraph reports from press box re-created game on screen, complete with PA).
**Toughest Ticket In The NFL
Entering 2006, Lambeau Field has been sold out on a season-ticket basis 45 straight years, for 345 consecutive non-strike games (70 preseason, 261 regular season and 14 postseason), beginning with the 1960 opener vs. the Chicago Bears.
The current waiting list is 71,500. People who were recently awarded season tickets put their names on the waiting list in mid 1970's. Since 1989, the number of names on the list has gone up dramatically, so it most likely will take longer.
Nearly 28,000 Packer season-ticket accounts represent 50 states, as well as Washington D.C., Canada, Japan and Austrailia,. The top five states are Wisconsin (24,896 accounts), Illinois (959), Michigan (492), Minnesota (289) and Florida (184).
The renovation removed about 800 names from the waiting list in 2002, with a further reduction in the coming year. | |
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| Rugby vs. Football
Posted: 5/11/2007 10:41:40 AM | steevemac,
"nobody supports their team more than the people of Wisconsin support the Green Bay Packers"
with all of my respect, you know NOTHING! even Cavalier should laugh at you and should not agree with you! i am sure Packers have loyal supporters (just like any other sporting club) but to say that they beat the English and that they are the best supporters in the world is just nonsense and it shows your ignorance about the whole of Europe.
i do not blame you as we still come across some Americans who still live in that bubble, thinking that anything which is American is better than the rest. some of you slag us Europeans off saying that Rangers, Navy Seals or Delta Force are the best soldiers just because they are American. have you ever heard of the British SAS? no need to mention anymore.
not only i talk about England and Scotland but Germany or Spain as well. the sporting attitude and feeling in USA is quite different from the European. i am sure you love/support your team but to compare one supporter of Milwall, Celtic, Tottenham or Liverpool to an American fan is nonsense. i recommend you to watch any match of the Premiership or the last match played by Liverpool against Chelsea at Anfield Road Stadium, you will see the meaning of "fan" and you will ask/say yourself "oh my God, those people really love their teams"
Cavalier,
i know those rich owners of NFL teams spend millions and of course i know those teams have lots of people follow them. i did not say the opposite my friend.
i respect your sports and if millions of dollars are spent, that is because there are fans around it.
just for the record: the Women World Cup of Football in 1999 played on American soil got more than 40 millions of people on TV, i mean, 40 millions of Americans watching every match of the US side. it is a real fact that i read in a American sporting article. it also said that the audience was quite better than the Stanley Cup.
Pedro | |
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| Rugby vs. Football
Posted: 5/11/2007 11:39:11 AM |
with all of my respect, you know NOTHING! even Cavalier should laugh at you and should not agree with you! i am sure Packers have loyal supporters (just like any other sporting club) but to say that they beat the English and that they are the best supporters in the world is just nonsense and it shows your ignorance about the whole of Europe.
Pedro-
Where's the numbers, son? C'mon, from reading these posts, I knew one of you were gonna pull that Euro-snob attitude, but if you're trying to convince me of something-you better come with the facts, not just "because [you] said so." How long are the wating lists for season tix? What are the TV numbers? What about memorabilia sales? Facts, man, facts! I'm not gonna get into a pissing contest with ANYBODY over anything without backing it up; can you do the same?
And I'm sure the people of the UK do support their soccer teams, as the people of South Africa and New Zealand support their rugby teams, Canada supports their hockey teams, Japan, Cuba and the Northeast US support their baseball teams, and Caribbean nations support their cricket teams-but I will hold up the dedication and loyalty of fans of the GREEN BAY PACKERS against any others in the world; living, dead, or unborn...and I posted the stats to prove my case.
The Defense rests. | |
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| Rugby vs. Football
Posted: 5/11/2007 12:04:57 PM | Packer fans are definately nuts for their teams.........but let's be realistic here. None of us can definitively prove one sport or teams fans are "better". It's too subjective a topic. The $$$ spent here in the US supporting a team is really no more or less indicative of the fans' devotion any more than saying English futbol fans are more devoted because of their willingness to beat the crap out of their rivals fans. Pedro really has no idea how US fans support their teams because he hasn't been here and attended a game. Until you've been to Lambeau Field(where the GB Packers play)you can't comprehend the fervor of these devoted fans. Nor can any US sports fan have a complete understanding of the deep love English fans have for their futbol(or Aussies for their football....or rugby fans for their sport). I think we could all show a little more respect for one another's sports. The one thing we all have in common is our love for sport. Running each other's sports down or arguing over who's fans are more crazy is pointless. I've stated I'm willing to give rugby a look and, as Pedro knows, I'm already a huge soccer fan. Can the rest of you say the same? Can Pedro and aircon give American sports the same courtesy?
Pedro, you are correct about the women's World Cup in 1999...it was big here. Mainly because it was generally acknowledged that the US team was the favorite. The casual sports fan here only got interested because we were supposed to win. Much less interest in the men's Cup because the US men's team sucks. Sadly though, the fervor over the women's tean quickly subsided. There was an attempt to start a pro womens soccer league. It lasted 2 years, i think......then went broke and folded. Unfortunately once the glow of winning the World Cup wore off, most Americans went back to not giving a crap about soccer. | |
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Posted: 5/11/2007 12:34:37 PM | | it was big because the broad (brandy chastain?) took her shirt off. lets see jonah lufa do that!!!!!!! | |
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Posted: 5/12/2007 4:12:16 AM | i do not need any fact to say that the English are the most loyal fans that you will ever come across as it is itself a fact proved. you only have to enter White Hart lane, Anfield, Old Trafford, Hampden Park, Ibrox Park, Stamford Bridge. note that i only show you a few stadiums.
as Cavalier says the millions you spend in USA have nothing to do with being more loyal or not. by the way, here in Europe transfers amongst teams are not free and any big team is able to pay 60 millions of Euros ( 80 millions of dollars) just to bring a player like Ronaldiño, etc.
therefore, football in Europe spends a lot of money as well.
well, i DO respect american sports, i have NEVER slagged NFL or MLB off. but to say that those supporters beat the English or the Germans is just nonsense.
surely Packers fans love their team, yes! however, i have come across many Americans on different websites who used to say something like "i was born and raised as a """"" fan but i changed and now i support """"". others used to say "i was a fan of """" but since my favoutite player left to join a different team,i changed the team" | |
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Posted: 5/12/2007 10:01:15 AM |
i do not need any fact to say that the English are the most loyal fans that you will ever come across as it is itself a fact proved.
How/why is it proved? Just because you said so? You may not need any facts, Pedro; but if you want this Midwestern boy convinced-I do!
the millions you spend in USA have nothing to do with being more loyal or not.
I agree, but it is a benchmark...however, the fact that the waiting list for season tix in Green Bay is three decades long -and people are willing to wait-has nothing to do with money. Also, you should see the streets or shopping malls of Green Bay, Appleton, or Milwaukee on game day-nearly deserted, as everyone is home watching the Packers...the State of Wisconsin now issues Packer license plates for a nominal fee; they are the most requested "vanity" plates issued...the cars and houses with Packer banners flying from them...and the fact that they sell out even when they stink, and their TV ratings remain high year after year...that's loyalty.
however, i have come across many Americans on different websites who used to say something like "i was born and raised as a """"" fan but i changed and now i support """"". others used to say "i was a fan of """" but since my favoutite player left to join a different team,i changed the team"
Are you trying to tell me that there aren't ANY bandwagon-jumping fans in European soccer? I imagine every sport has them... the Pack is no exception...but the love and the loyalty is evident every Sunday at Lambeau Field, especially in seasons where they don't do well...and that same love and loyalty is evident at away games as well: the Tampa Bay Buccaneers had to institute special ticket procedures to stop the Packer faithful from turning the Buc's stadium into "Lambeau South" whenever the Green and Gold came to town. Packer fans plan their vacations around when the team is playing in a city they may want to visit, such as Miami, San Diego, Phoenix-all the popular winter destinations; and the one that the team is visiting is the one that the vacationers will choose for their destination that year.
And one more fact: the Green Bay Packer's Hall of Fame has more visitors every year than the NFL's Hall of Fame.
Coach Mac has spoken. | |
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Posted: 5/12/2007 12:56:40 PM | you will NEVER find any European football supporter jumping from one club to another one. that is what makes the difference between USA and Europe. the support comes from the bottom of the heart, from father to son. and we love the team not the player. Americans and Japanese usually love the player and if the player moves to another team, then they start supporting his new club. that is the our difference.
my favourite player was and is Ronaldo, however, since he moved to Italy leaving Real Madrid i now say "phuck him!" even if he is still my favourite!
a fan of Liverpool will die loving Liverpool and despising Everton or Man United, a fan of Celtic will die supporting them and despising Rangers (the Scottish rivalry with Rangers and Celtic is the oldest sporting rivalry in the world, coming from 1870 more or less).
i do not try to teach anything, i only try to tell the difference between Europe and USA and Japan for example.
you are a Midwestern boy and i thank you for mentioning it as people from deep-rooted places of USA are known to live in their own bubble, lacking of knowledge outside USA. i do not say it is bad but it does not allow you know what happens in the rest of the world.
finally, do you remember the 1994 World Cup??? it was played in USA and i remind you that the US authorities were quite happy when England National Team did not qualify to play it. why was it??? it was because the English are the strongest football supporters and many of them are hooligans who would easily beat or kill you if you insulted their team. | |
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Posted: 5/12/2007 1:24:55 PM | | that sort of thing is not unique to the green bay packers and their fans. the bengals and the browns will often not sell tickets to over the phone to people with a pittsburgh area code. they are instructed to do this by the teams themselves. you see more steeler fans in arizona and florida than cardinal,buc and jaguar fans. and as you all know there atre "steeler bars" all over the world. but there ain't one soccer "pub" anywhere near here. | |
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Posted: 5/12/2007 8:59:45 PM | | I love it when other countries try to compare Soccer and Rugby to the NFL. In the NFL...if you get carted off the field, you don't jump up and come back for the next play. If these Rugby players are such badasses, comon over and make the big money in the NFL. But chances are you wouldn't make it to the practice squad, let alone make the team. There was one player that was a former rugby player..well, almost a player...he was a kicker!! | |
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Posted: 5/12/2007 9:33:41 PM |
Americans and Japanese usually love the player
Well, Pedro, It must be nice to sit in Spain and know everything about everybody...while some American fans are bandwagon jumpers, most are loyal to their local team-although a fair amount may switch loyalties if they relocate; for example, if someone moves from Chicago to San Francisco, they may become 49ers fans, and not follow the Bears as much. I'd like to know where you're getting this "usually" stuff from.
people from deep-rooted places of USA are known to live in their own bubble, lacking of knowledge outside USA.
Hmmm, next you're going to insinuate that people from "deep-rooted places of USA" might be found to practice incest or bestiality...the main reasons I mention that I'm from the Midwest are 1) I'm damn proud of it; and 2) like most folks from the Heartland, we aren't big on empty talk; it's a waste of time and oxygen...the state nickname of Missouri, for example, is "Show Me," and the state motto of Wisconsin is "Forward"...not "Empty Words."
it does not allow you know what happens in the rest of the world.
To put your mind at ease-we do have forms of communication here other than cave paintings: newspapers, television, radio (Madison's WHA dates back to 1914, making it arguably the oldest in the US) and the internet...Milwaukee -like other American cities- has an extensive public library system, as well, and I frequently take advantage of it.
remember the 1994 World Cup??? it was played in USA and i remind you that the US authorities were quite happy when England National Team did not qualify
Actually, you aren't reminding me; I've never heard this before!
the English are the strongest football supporters and many of them are hooligans who would easily beat or kill you if you insulted their team.
I'm not sure I see how this is something to be proud of...if you are a fan of one of the Packers opponents -even the hated Minnesota Vikings or Chicago Bears- and you insulted the Pack -even at hallowed Lambeau Field- you will be insulted back, jeered, and perhaps even "mooned;" but Packer fans have too much class to turn violent...I mean, c'mon, you beat or kill someone because they raped your daughter or ran over your dog or something, not over a sporting event...if certain English soccer fans predisposition to start riots over their love of their team makes them the "World's Greatest Sports Fans," well-you win! I think I speak for the majority of ALL football fans (except maybe in Oakland or Philadelphia  ) that hooliganism is NOT how we want to be known to the world...we'll leave the hittin' to the professionals on the field. | |
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Posted: 5/13/2007 6:26:01 AM | | i never understood the pride that went along with being a hooligan. it seems more common to high school athletics than professional sports. more of a juvenile behavior. and when a group of us steeler fans would make the 90 minute tripe up the turnpike to cleveland. we expected to be insulted. and in some cases have our tires slashed. but beaten? nope. and as for the 1994 world cup?? nobody gives a shit. we were busy watching sports. or worrying if the great jonah lomu would honor the nfl with his presence. | |
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Posted: 5/13/2007 12:28:55 PM | steveemac,
so a person moving from Chicago to San Francisco and becoming a 49ers fan??? that says a lot about you all. now i know the meaning of "loyalty" in USA. that is the difference between Europe and USA. we take our love to any place.
just an impossible example my friend: a fan of Manchester United moving to Liverpool and becoming a Red fan??? no way in hell! a fan of Liverpool moving to London and becoming a Gunners fan??? no way i hell! the same examples are the same in Spain, Germany, Italy as supporting a team is a feeling coming from the heart and it does not matter if your legs are moving to a different place.
my comment about "deep-rooted places" was to say that people from the Midwest are said to care only about US matters, not showing any interest in what happens outside USA, which is a lot. i never talked about incesting, cave paintings or something similar.
my comment about the 1994 World Cup was to say that English football fans have a bad press outside England and that they are quite feared wherever they travel. therefore, the US authorities breathed a sigh of relief when England did not qualify to play it so the English did not touch American soil.
well talking about hooligans, i shall NEVER agree with someone beating or killing a rival, that is horrible! but to understand the love towards teams you have to go and live in England for some years. you would be surprised how much those guys love and support their clubs. nothing compares to them, believe me
flthymcnsty,
i do not know whether or not there are pubs outside USA where fans join to watch Steelers matches.
but i inform you my friend that in USA, many people often go to pubs to watch European matches, i mean, pubs owned by football fans (often Europeans who moved to USA years ago).
also i inform you that teams like Real Madrid , Manchester United, Barcelona have associations of fans overseas ( i do not mean the ordinary fan) who are in touch with the team (including North America, China or Japan) and those fans come to pubs to watch the matches, in fact in New York there are lots of bars where you see them together. | |
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Posted: 5/13/2007 2:13:11 PM | | there are several in the uk, belgium, ireland, germany trust me they are all over the world. i think it may have been the english who breathed the sigh of relief when they did not get the opportunity to come to the states. i mean it did not work out too well for them the last time they tried to raise hell over here | |
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Posted: 5/13/2007 3:07:28 PM | canuck here...all sports are good...love the NFL, 2nd only to hockey and the Leafs...the Leafs by the way may rival the Packer's in how hard it is to get seasons tickets as my uncle got on the waiting list in '79 and we're still waiting...i used to go lots of leaf games as a teen over 18 we could buy bus packages to go to the games...back when hockey was hockey without all the helmets and the stick swinging krap
but, for the record for those over 'ome (i.e. great brits)...all my relatives in britain are unanimous in my sentiments that you're hooligans cast a black shadow over your entire country...they're as retarded as retarded gets and cost britain a great deal of legitimacy and credibility on the world football scene...they're nuthing but a bunch of rabble-rousing troublemakers...
and for the record also, yes it is true what the one poster said about nations reputations and the british being just as shallow about opinions outside their own country...that is very true...and pretty much globally accepted also
i have lots of relatives that have emigrated here and we all wish they'd just go back home since all they ever harp about is how much better britain is...when it isn't...if it was so great they would have and should have stayed there...very negative people.
you have surveillance cameras on every street corner and elevator and my aunts lock their doors when they sit down to dine...probably some of your moronic hooligans with nuthing to do until next weeks footy match
seriously Britain...get your hooligans under control if you want the rest of the football world to treat you with any repsect...they're pathetic representation of the old british Empire for sure, and the main reason I won't bother seeing a match when I go over there
also, for the record, about 10 maybe 15 years ago they used to have a competition every year to see who the best conditioned athletes were...year after year Kyle Rote Jr. (a footballer=soccer) player won every year, and he always beat two hockey players...never a footballer, a rugger, a baseballer, a darter, anywhere in the top three year after year.
Go Leafs Go! | |
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Posted: 5/13/2007 6:58:30 PM | "and for the record also, yes it is true what the one poster said about nations reputations and the british being just as shallow about opinions outside their own country...that is very true...and pretty much globally accepted also"
Hi slysterling, just got back from almost 6 months in Canada...loved your Tim Hortons! But, I can't accept this remark above mate...it's just not true. We are European, a part of the continent over here and it's cultural ties. Every nation within Europe is keen to maintain it's national identity, and the UK is no different, but certainly no worse. Jeez, do you know how the French go on about this stuff???
We love the fact that our BBC is entirely independant, and does a brilliant job of educating us about the world around us. Our newspapers bring us news from all over the world daily...and there's about a dozen daily's here. Our radio stations bring us news reports from all over the world...often as the action is unfolding. They also present unbaised vews from Iraqi's, Iranians, Zimbabweans, Russians, Chinese, Palestinians, Serbians, Kosovans, Argentinians, Venezuelans...you get the picture. This is a nation that tries to educate itself and become more aware of those around us. We look outwards more than you think my friend. And just because we have a peculiar habit of whistful reminiscing of dear old Blighty, this doesn't make us shallow. Negative maybe, but certainly not shallow. We accept many more immigrants to these shores than you would ever believe...and we've done it since the 1950's. The Britain you may be thinking of has changed almost beyond recognition.
Also, there are many reasons why some may feel threatened enough to act in a militant manner, but in general things are no worse in the UK than they are in other European countries. Italy has seen the murder of a Policeman and about 7-8 fans during the present football season. In Holland, there is always fan violence. Turkey? They quite like to stab eachother...and anybody else from a foreign football team. But you know what? It doesn't happen in England strangely enough. Hooliganism? Go to Russia and Ukraine were they racially abuse their black players...even the coaches do it sometimes. Go to Italy for more. If it happens here, they open a can of whup ass on you in short order!
Britain isn't perfect - far from it. But it's much more humble than you make it out to be. Strange people maybe, but generally decent people.
Crime? CCTV cameras? Chavs? Yes, we have these problems. But your nearest neighbors experience so much worse than we do. And we hate it, and we moan about it. But for some reason it's there and getting worse, and we hate that it is mate. You're truly blessed in Canada in these regards. Wonderful people, and a generally good society spirit. We'd love that here...believe me. | |
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Posted: 5/13/2007 8:55:59 PM |
We accept many more immigrants to these shores than you would ever believe...and we've done it since the 1950's. The Britain you may be thinking of has changed almost beyond recognition.
oh i believe all that and then some...the old brits are very much almost a minority over there from when my folks were kids thru to the time they came over in '55. thanks for the compliments on our country. We like it. For the most part. i think I could spend the rest of my life here as I've pretty much lived east, south and west, and although lots of folks figure I'm north now, there's still lots more north of me. Lots of different terrain.
Back on topic. We don't get the aussie rules football on regular cable anymore here...pretty much all hold 'em poker these days. But i did love it. I like a rough and tumble game mind you. i can't rememebr the teams i cheered for on tv, but there was one that seemed almost like a dynasty, or once was.
Rugby. I had a good chum played for the canadian team thru most of the 80's and a bit in the ealry 90's before he finally had to admit his knees couldn't take it anymore. i wouldn't know how to keep score mind you right now, since it's never on the tv either. But i do remember the 'all-blacks 'of new zealand.
The reason i watch NFL football is because i got hooked on it at a friends house one day when i was 12. i saw this guy with a chiselled jaw managing a fairly new team in miami with a quarterback called griese...pronounced greasey. Two years later (72) they were the only team ever in any sport i believe to have an undefeated season and eventuial championship. So when it comes to Superbowls I can pretty much remmber all of them including Broadway Joe Namath.
Football philosophies helped me lots in building sales teams for a large multinational financial company. i was good at it. Tops in the world twice. Football is a team sport with 11 men having very detailed roles to play and if you can get them all on the same page and doing all the little fundamental things that a new fan doesn't comprehend, then the big picture looks after itself. I mean maybe I'm ignorant to the game of rugby, but to me, a scrum is a scrum is a scrum...lol.
Then you have 11 men on defence, runniing different defensive set formatioms to counteract the other teams offensive skills and tactics called plays, be it running or passing or any of a variety of combinations. For me it's all about team building and fundamentals and execution and self-discipline, and making it to the championship, and the road to get there.
Part of the reason I follow it a little less each year is todays athletes seem to drop a hell of a lot more balls than 20 years ago, and they get hurt a lot more, and the reffing has just become the pits since they've fried the ref's brains with instant replay challenges and sh1t. But the game eveolves and I still cheer for my Dolphins no matter how sh1tty they are these days. the old glory days were 35 years ago. but the history of the game's evolution goes back a lot farther. i like it better than our gane beacuse the american runs 4 downs to get 10 yards as opposed to three. So there's more of a strategy package to it. But i still follow our game faithfully and the Grey Cup in Canada is the oldest trophy competed for apparently in sports.
you sound like my dad and almost every englishmen i know that thinks footballers are all a bunch of pufta's...and some of them today are pufta's. but there's still a ton of strategy and wearing the other team down over 60 minutes which is why you see some exciting finishes. And dad now follows the Hamilton Tiger cats religiously every year as he took me to games way back in the 60's.
Speaking of exciting finishes, i can't say I share the passion for the worlds favorite sport-soccer. Although I do have handed down to me a number of grandads championship medals around my neck from the Connaught football club in the 20's and a couple of others in the tool chest. it's growing every year here (soccer), and the noncontact and low cost for entry of the sport is very attractive to most parents. You can't even speak to either of my brother-in-laws when Soccer Saturday is on, so I know all about the passion...and they're in their 50's. it is after all the worlds most played game.
Anyways, hope you liked our game, hockey, while you were here. glad you had a good time.
in regards the shallow thing,..sometimes thats often an overused word on POF forums. I find it so very irritating that all the WASP"s i know (white anglo-saxon protestants) think if it's a british movie or a british comedy it has to be great. i go to peoples homes that have to watch it all day long. if it's not british, it's not worth watching. But the stiff upper lip and all that is the part i was most referring to. it often seems this callous way of shrugging it off sometimes can be qquite irksome. And yes, i do realize the Europeans are very much on top of things in world affairs. that one's a no-brainer.
But you guys have many many centuries of history to bear out why it's important to pay attention to world events. And on that, yes you are quite correct, we north americans are either shallow, or just still very woefully immature about the whole subject...hopefully we'll all wake up soon on that issue.
anywho..pip pip and tally ho and all that
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| Rugby vs. Football
Posted: 5/13/2007 10:48:36 PM |
steveemac,
so a person moving from Chicago to San Francisco and becoming a 49ers fan??? that says a lot about you all. now i know the meaning of "loyalty" in USA. that is the difference between Europe and USA. we take our love to any place.
No, Pedro; you don't know jack s h i t about the meaning of anything in the USA; you just like to act like you do...Chicago to San Francisco is about 2,000 miles, more or less-two time zones...your example of someone moving Manchester to Liverpool is more like someone moving from New York to Philadelphia...a better perspective would be if someone moved from Manchester to Warsaw. The transplanted Chicagoan might take up watching the 'Niners because s/he wants to fit in; to feel cameraderie with his/her peers-but that's not to say that said transplant wouldn't still have affection for "Da Bearsssss." It was the same when I was a kid; our family moved from Milwaukee to the Puget Sound area; while we still loved the Packers, we also began cheering on the Seahawks. Why? Because we were now Washingtonians; and were embracing our new home.
my comment about "deep-rooted places" was to say that people from the Midwest are said to care only about US matters, not showing any interest in what happens outside USA
Said by who? Do you have any quotes from anyone on this? Just to give you something to ponder-not that you actually will-here are some Midwesterners that showed some outside interest-and changed lives all over the world:
The WRIGHT BROTHERS, self-taught engineers from Ohio, changed travel in 1903 when their powered, piloted aircraft took off from Kitty Hawk, North Carolina.
Microbiologist and geneticist NORMAN BORLAUG was a practical scientist with a simple goal: feeding the world! Born in 1914 on a farm near Cresco, Iowa, he led the Green Revolution, a movement in the 1960s to increase crop yields and combat hunger. The result? More meals, a Nobel Prize in 1970 for improving wheat strains and production, and the ongoing World Food Prize program.
Try to imagine life without JOHN ATANASOFF. Think you can? First, you'd have to give up your cell phone, computer, television, car -- stuff that's electronic. That's because in 1939, this Iowa State University associate professor of math and physics created the prototype for the world's first electronic digital computer.
Go to the moon? Not without JAMES VAN ALLEN, a former University of Iowa astrophysicist. In 1958, Van Allen's satellites confirmed Earth has radiation belts in its atmosphere. Why did anyone care? NASA could design manned spacecraft to weather the belts and return safely to Earth. (We're sure NEIL ARMSTRONG -- another Midwesterner! -- was grateful.) | |
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| Rugby vs. Football
Posted: 5/14/2007 9:09:49 AM | steveemac,
even if one Manchester United's fan moved to Warsaw or the other side of the universe, he would continue supporting them until death. again, that is the difference between Europe and USA. unless you spend several years on this "bloody" continent amongst us, you will never understand it.
thanks for telling me your family story, it shows you are NOT loyal and a real fan as you betrayed your Packers once you started supporting Seahawks just because you moved to Washington State! traitor! what does to move away have to do with it??? so which one do you support when Packers face Seahawk??? it says a lot of you...........
if you really loved a team just like us Europeans, you would take your love with you, even to hell! | |
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| Rugby vs. Football
Posted: 5/14/2007 10:05:19 AM | maybe they love the sport more than the team...a great coach left green bay to coach in seattle...Mike Holmgren...i never followed seattle much till they hired him
i have some other favorite coaches as well and i pull for their teams while he's with them...normally i detest the Cowboy's, but when they had the big tuna-Bill Parcells coaching i followed them closely to watch the building process he usually tries to undertake in building a champion....unfortunately the owner hired a cancerous player and like cancer of the finger, the whole hand didn't operate as well with this clown on the team. But the clown apparently sells tickets, so sometimes i think there's something to the dollars behind sports...
same with the Redskins when they brought a real good guy Joe Gibbs back out of retirement to be the head coach...his first time thru he won 3 championships with 3 different quarterbacks and they temporarily changed the superbowl format to eliminate the extra week off before the big match as many owners complained that it's just not fair to give Joe Gibbs two weeks to prepare a team...lol
I also can't stand Peyton Manning or the Colts franchise, but when they brought in a super guy by the name of Tony Dungee to be the head coach, i took interest in wanting to see him finally earn himself a spot at the champions table...
..same with the New England Patriots....they exemplify almost to a tee how to run a franchise with a team concept and a budget and have been at the top 3 times this decade and flirted with the finals a couple of other times...so i watch with great interest how this team plays for 60 minutes, 16 weeks plus playoffs...but when they come to Miami, I'm still cheering for the Dolphins
same with coach Mike Keenan of the new york Rangers hockey club in 94
sports is great...don't forget 'fan' is short for fanatic, or fanatical...i'm loyal to the sports....i have my faves and always will, but i'll cheer for whoever i please when i please because i'm comfortable with my overall level of knowledge about the sport itself
i'll always be a leaf fan, but beacuase i love sports, i can pull for any team i want once they're knocked out.
ON TOPIC:
Football and rugby are contact sports, but the essence of both games, while similar are worlds apart. it's great to watch the ruggers fly down the wing missing tackles, but football has it's tuff moments as well...it's a lot of preparation and execution and mental toughness...same as rugby I'm sure
jmo | |
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