| Christians? Non-Drinkers?
Posted: 8/28/2006 11:54:58 AM |
OH YEAH...and what happened to false prophets of Ba'al?!? THATS RIGHT! They were all slain because they were turning God's people away from Him, and bringing idolatrous worship into play!
Only according to one imaginative book of mythology...some of whose press agents apparently seem to have had their sense of humour surgically removed upon conversion, along with any knowledge of the history of Near-Eastern religions.
You know back when "The Lord" was Ba'al's relative, before he got uppity and decided to be the "One True God" he was much easier to get along with...he'd even take a drink now and again. We'd sit around with Papa El and all the other Ba'al's on the back porch of the Holy mountain and get loaded until the earth shook. Those were the good old days... | |
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| Christians? Non-Drinkers?
Posted: 8/30/2006 2:23:35 PM | "jesus drank... unfermented wine... with no alcohol in it"
That is CRAP
There is no hard evidence he did not drink alcoholic wine...
In fact as I previously stated there is that passage in Luke where it said "... the son of man comes eating and DRINKING and you acuse his of being a glutton and a DRUNKARD"
The gospels portray jesus as someone who embraced the world and its pleasures and was not hung up on things...
DK | |
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| Christians? Non-Drinkers?
Posted: 8/30/2006 2:53:51 PM | A simple answer to this question would be to determine the patterns of ancient viticulture in Judea of the first century...
Grapes were likely not harvested year round, for one. And unless you salted the grape juice (???) it would start to ferment or go to vinegar if you hadn't been careful within a couple of days. And likely if we are talking about wine at Pesach (Passover) then it was 5 months old... in other words, finished...7 - 12% if you were lucky depending on the grapes and the wild yeasts.
Doing a web search to get opinions is pretty much fruitless - forgive the pun - as everyone has an opinion on this but the futher you get from traditional Churches the less alcohol is in the wine. As well people will debate that Jesus did or did not eat meat with his "grape drink". In the scriptural references the Greek word used for wine at Cana is not "Trux" the word allegedly for "new" or unfermented wine but "Oinos" for fully alcoholized wine. One would have to see what reference were used where to establish a case one way or the other. Certainly the wine Noah drank was alcoholic. When "new wine" is described in a parable it is probably "Trux" but wine in drinking references seems to be "Oinos" as it is in Paul's writings. Trux does not appear in the New Testament and is only used in the Septuagint translation for a Greek usage of "new wine" expressions in Hebrew...new wine is never spoken of well in the Hebrew Scriptures, neither is water mixed with wine. Wine is never spoken of explicitly as a sin, drinking to excess however would be a form of gluttony and is said to lead to the possibility of other sin.
All that aside, and going to basic food science, unfermented wine is not good clean fun...think of the sanitary conditions of the 1st century CE and realise you WANT alcohol in your drink...at least a few percent...because alcohol is the only thing that will kill off any of the pathogens that otherwise inhabit your liquid and that includes water which is why beer and wine were more commonly consumed by all people as liquid refreshment than water...water sources, especially near cities and towns were not always clean...especially in areas prone to flooding near rivers or any area that had to rely on low wells.
Even low alcohol wine would be likely healthier a drink than a lot of the water you could have gotten...certainly the beer would be. Just get the wine before the Romans got it and boiled it in a lead vessel to sweeten it with Lead Acetate...Urgh.
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| Christians? Non-Drinkers?
Posted: 8/30/2006 2:58:34 PM | No, you're not alone in that merit. I also like to go out and have a few myself though ...
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| Christians? Non-Drinkers?
Posted: 9/3/2006 7:14:11 AM | Again ... I'm basing it on scripture.... the quote from luke as well as jesus turning water to wine at the wedding and the direct reference made to people getting drunk off the wine(John 2) in that scipture...
You can't discount scripture that supports that he enbraced alcohol just because it doesn't fit YOUR image of him... | |
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| Christians? Non-Drinkers?
Posted: 9/3/2006 12:21:35 PM | Sorry JohnKarnes but the original Greek Scriptures from whence your KJV comes disagree with you. The word for new wine does not appear in the New Testament. Period. That word, "Trux" which refers to unfermented grape juice, only appears in the Old Testament in reference to certain passages that talk about new wine being put into skins and having them burst...all the references to wine in the NT use the Greek word Oinos, which can ONLY refer to alcoholic wine.
You can imagine it says something else. You'd be wrong. End of story. No room for opinion or interpretation. It's a simple fact. Move on. | |
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| Christians? Non-Drinkers?
Posted: 9/20/2006 8:18:44 PM | | I'm a Christian, and I don't have any problem with being thankful for "the wine that gladdens the hearts of men"--I'll even heft a wee glass o' single malt on occasion. My question to you is a practical one. You say that Y'shua drank 'new wine.' Have you ever made wine? Ever made wine in hot weather? I once left my grape juice sitting before I got around to adding the yeast. Four hours later, nature was taking its course, and the addition of the store-bought yeast resulted in a fortified (and really wonderful!) wine at over 14% alc./vol. by the time it was bottled. My point is, in the climate of the Middle East--even as was, somewhat moderated, 2000 years ago--there was no non-alcoholic wine! Personally, I would have loved to have been at the wedding feast at Cana. I'll bet that was some party. | |
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| Christians? Non-Drinkers?
Posted: 6/30/2008 4:04:15 AM |
Christians? Non-Drinkers? Posted: 1/20/2005 5  12 PM Just curious how many Christians are on here that would head out to a get-together planned at some place besides a bar? Am I alone?
Ok....... 3 1/ 2 years after posting the original message, I'm back and decided to read through all the repsonses. Boy, did we somehow get off track. Even after my attempt to clarify my point =) There are some interesting facts (and not so facts) posted here. Thanks for the responses. There were a few that actually answered my original question - and for those - I really thank you! | |
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