Fafnir
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Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 276 | |
| Feminism Created Sexism
Posted: 2/21/2005 10:11:13 PM | It took me a while, but I've read every single post in this thread, and I will dissent with the majority, i.e. that feminism is a benign and positive development for societies. If 'sexism' is a bad thing, feminism created it. And feminism is deeply damaging to women, far more so than to men. Sexism is a political/ideological word, along with the modern word 'gender' to promote collectivizing people who were once feminine and masculine individuals with their own strengths in society based on their biological and spiritual differences. We would have to be able to tolerate and accept the idea for just a minute that men and women are inherently, innately different beyond the mere obvious, that the concept of masculine and feminine is real. I can hear the outraged howls of heresy! infidel! from here. 
Masculinity and femininity describe biological and spiritual universal traits, from the dawn of time, in every society I've ever heard of.
Men, the hunters, evolved to become dominant in and responsible for the public concerns of human society. Aggressive and sexually promiscuous unless civilized by the female.
Women, the gatherers, have been responsible for the domestic concerns of children and family. Naturally more modest and reserved and far more sexually selective, by necessity. The roles are so ingrained that they are innate, biological, permanent conditions of being a human being.
From the beginning of history, all human societies have developed attitudes, expectations and customs that distinguish men from women. Feminism has thrown the experience of tens of thousands of years, and reality of our condition cavalierly to the wind for an ideological theory, that the condition of being masc. or fem. is in fact a form of 'political oppression'. The natural and necessary condition of being different must be abolished, the oppressive arrangement of male/female relationships destroyed by the force of government.
The sex of a person (and all that entails) is vehemtly denied and discouraged, the intended distraction from reality being the concept 'gender'. I know I'm going to need a flame-proof suit, but [u]feminism has profoundly damaged women[/u] by belittling the dignity of their natural femininity. To be as sexually "liberated" as the male has in fact removed the one controlling and civilizing power women once held.(In the macro) Superficially, men have reaped whatever 'benefits' feminism offers by opening the floodgates of vastly greater numbers of available partners. But those men seeking something more meaningful than mere sexual conquests have also been damaged as women have come to believe that to marry is to become enslaved.
Feminism seeks to punish the dignity of all in the goal of creating a new kind of person who is no longer masculine or feminine.
Many posts on this thread give anecdotal evidence to the mechanism of feminist enforcement, the government bureaucracy. Once the policies have become law, there is no allowance for the circumstances of mere individuals.
Feminism has taken obvious overtones of a kind of religion every bit as intolerant as Christian fundamentalism. The recent case of Larry Summers, President of Harvard University points this out.http://www.insidehighered.com/insider/what_larry_summers_said In his speech, he dared defy feminist orthodoxy by timidly stating that the reason women weren't represented in some top scientific fields in greater numbers was because they are fundamentally different than men. A firestorm of condemnation and controversy swept the academic world. Summers has had to apologize repeatedly for his remarks about reality. After the requisite appointment with the new Inquisition, he has been brought to heel and done penance. No, there is no difference due to femininity or masculinity, all the iniquities of the modern age are the result of discrimination and bias. Torquemada lives on, at a campus near you.
Certainly I am not against the ladies receiving equal pay for equal work,(equal protection under the law), and I am very much opposed to "men" physically abusing women, the supposed delight of people like me who hold views opposed to the faith of Feminism/Leftism. I reject out of hand the frenzied accusations of offended and regimented minds, so judgmental that the only possible 'good', 'intelligent' man is an obsequious and servile person who happens to be of 'the other gender'
To be totally honest here,why core feminist womyn concern themselves two cents about being desired by a man completely escapes me.
The preceding heresy has been brought to you by my Master, Satan  | |
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| Is feminism sexism?
Posted: 2/22/2005 6:24:34 AM | | This can be a difficult and contentious topic. My goodness, people have some strong opinions and interesting ideas! | |
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Fafnir
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Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 279 | |
| feminism/sexism
Posted: 2/22/2005 11:05:52 AM | sidheanwynn:
There are equally opposite statistics and opinions that denounce much of the above. Perhaps 2 biased sides of the same coin? It's not surprising that the word denounce is used; (that's as close as I want to come to launching a 'personal attack'; flaming individuals is pointless), I just don't see how citing MB of stats is supposed to somehow disprove anyone's faith or "convert" them. I believe there's a wealth of opinion all over PoF that differs with mine strongly, and out in the real world expressing such views as mine are definitely not wise career moves. That is frightening in a supposed free-society.
I wonder if Ward Churchill would have been so aggressively defended by his peers for saying publicly something that agreed with my above post instead of saying the victims of 9-11 were 'guilty'. In the continuing inquisition of Larry Summers, there was a woman on the Harvard faculty, a scientist no less, that took such offense at his comments that she claimed she felt physically ill at his remarks and could not remain in the same room with him. How quaint and charmingly Victorian. To contract the vapors, in need of a fainting couch in the parlor at the coarse, pornographic, and ungentlemanly expression of the idea men and women are fundamentally different from one another. But I'm in danger of repeating myself.
Such examples merely point out and help confirm my belief that feminism is a form of 'theology', as rife with contradictions as any bible, and enforced by courts and bureaucracies with all the rigid devotion to creed as commonly seen in Iran's sharia courts of Islamic justice. Happily, for now, the penalties for non-observance differ. But they are only differences of degree, not of kind.
The whole point of my posts here is that I think feminism has damaged Western society
in the macro-sense by using the power of government to enforce theories that run counter to reality, that men and women are 'wired' differently.
This is a great site. So many sites on both sides rigidly adhere to their beliefs, never allowing people to come in and mix it up. I hope I can keep out of the needless flame wars and personal attacks that these discussions inevitably descend to. I'm new here and don't fall into any middle-school type cliques that always develop on boards. Disliking people personally isn't going to accomplish anything, but it's still OK to express dislike for ideas and not be hated for it. Hell, it's even OK to be hated, I don't mind at all. The more venomous hate says more about the hater than the hated. That helps me in my search for someone with a different goal in mind.
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| feminism/sexism
Posted: 2/22/2005 11:53:59 AM | @ side:
Sorry, can't post them. As I've learned before - showing the opposite side of the coin results in "banning." (Even if the posted article is written by other well known "real life" authors, and well respected objectionable statistic gatherers.)
I am to a large degree "silenced" b/c I don't share the equal opportunity to express myself without immediate consequences within this forum. It's a trend common throughout the Western World - and only survives on our good economy. Without that, it's meaningless. | |
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| feminism/sexism
Posted: 2/22/2005 12:23:06 PM | | I always think this headline says "Is feminism sexy" and to that I say "is anything that ends in -ism sexy?" | |
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| feminism/sexism
Posted: 2/22/2005 12:26:36 PM | | Sexism is sexy but in a sexist way, at least to me. | |
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Fafnir
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Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 283 | |
| feminism/sexism
Posted: 2/22/2005 12:30:44 PM | friends:
Sorry, can't post them. As I've learned before - showing the opposite side of the coin results in "banning." (Even if the posted article is written by other well known "real life" authors, and well respected objectionable statistic gatherers.) Is this true? Does this site allow only half the discussion too? That would be a shame, and probably bad for business. They'd be losing a big chunk of traffic/market share by running yet another echo-chamber. Oh well, if true, it was fun while it lasted. | |
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| feminism/sexism
Posted: 2/22/2005 12:42:25 PM | It's all good.
I used my "but kissing techniques" and swallowed my pride to get my membership back.
A wise old dude said the most successful know when to leave their ego’s at the door when they enter a room.
It's a remarkable feeling, not being able to speak ones mind.....(oppression?) maybe a bit....but some brothers had it a million times worse.
I call it a good learning experience and am reminded just what it is I'm fighting for.
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Fafnir
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Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 285 | |
| feminism/sexism
Posted: 2/22/2005 1:27:30 PM | friends:
A wise old dude said the most successful know when to leave their ego’s at the door when they enter a room.
It's a remarkable feeling, not being able to speak ones mind.....(oppression?) maybe a bit....but some brothers had it a million times worse. Sage advice.
There could be practical considerations as well. If this site is on a Canadian registered server, the administrators could well be committing a criminal offense by allowing these postings (of mine) to stay up after they become aware of them. I understand the Canadian authorities take a very dim view of Hate Speech. I certainly don't want anyone having to go before a magistrate or something.
If I'm right, I'm very afraid for you Canadians, and saddened too. It'd be fascinating to google Canadian speech-codes to better educate myself on what is allowed to be posted. It would be just like being in college! And now back to the show...{{{popcorn}}} | |
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| Is feminism sexism?
Posted: 2/22/2005 2:55:21 PM | It comes from being stepped on a thousand and one times, without fighting back. You get to the point where you realize you have to sacrifice your honor and integrity to survive in a competitive and hostile world. At least that is what I overheard on the bus one time. When people casually toss around insults and scorn over petty things, it can make the world appear a very unfriendly place. And in that state of mind asking for help is the same as inviting more abuse. It is not an option. This is what you read in a note they left.
People should know when they open their big mouths and treat a fellow human being to verbal hostility that it can hurt, and maybe one day that is too much for them to take. It is easy online to lash out and let someone have it. You don't have to see what it does to them. This is the trouble with having a hostile attitude about a whoile group of people, by gender or anything else. You lose sight of the person you hurt when you crusade against a whole group they are a member of. | |
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| feminism/sexism
Posted: 2/22/2005 3:15:29 PM |
low life trailer trash down the road.
So if it specific to gender, race or creed, cencorship of it is acceptable. However you reserve your individual right to make up your own hateful remarks? I am just trying to understand the finer points of the distinction between what is considered hate propaganda, and every day disparagement of, say, people who live in trailers. You are not welcome in my trailer, by the way, nothing personal. | |
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Fafnir
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Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 288 | |
| Does Feminism exacerbate suicide rates?
Posted: 2/22/2005 3:19:11 PM | I'm loath to use stats, as they can be manipulated for political advantage, so I'll just go ahead and say that (in my opinion) Feminism is so poisonously destructive to both sexes that it encourages the self-defeat of all who will not conform. And those who do. It is defeminizingand emasculating...Feminism is dehumanizing.
It may be appropriate to examine whether feminist fundamentalism is in part responsible for increased rates of suicide+alcoholism/drug abuse+DV since it became entrenched in every institution of Western society. It's just one facet of the concerted attack on humanity that is Leftism.
What a great board PoF is running here; I can't say I've seen anything like it in the 3 years I've had this evil computer. | |
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Fafnir
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Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 291 | |
| Canadian Speech Codes
Posted: 2/22/2005 4:01:45 PM | bluesbabe:
Nor is it censorship. Well I suppose in some ways it is but really I think I can live without Neo-Nazi attitudes and hatred literature.
The discussion that's going on here? Isn't "hate". It's lively interesting discussion about perspectives and yes there is a difference between racism, sexism, feminism etc LOL
Personally there IS no other country I'd rather live in than Canada and no I'm not slashing the U.S. but Canada is my home. I'd love to see what you do come up with though :)
And I'm proud of it. Hey bluesbabe, I took a quick look around google on Canada+speech codes and found some truly frightening stuff. And my intent with all this is anything but trying to promote hate between people, especially between men and women. I find hatred for people because of their sex, religion, race, orientation repugnant and profoundly evil. It's wrong to hate people for what they are, but I think the healthy mind should recoil from attempts by governments to silence discussion of theories. (As we're doing here). I have much more reading to do on what has become of free-speech in Canada, and I may not be long for posting on this wonderful board. Check these out: (these sites cover more than just Canada and universities...now I'm afraid for more than just you guys)
http://www.issues-views.com/index.php/sect/24000/article/24000
http://www.campusreportonline.net/main/articles.php?id=256
Here's one that may be more questionable, about Ernst Zundel, but even the disgusting holocaust deniers should have the right to spew their ignorance without going to prison (unless they're advocating violence against people) http://www.canadianfreespeech.com/homepage.html
And last, here's an interesting article (short, 1 page) on Canadian Hate Speech Law
http://www.omnivore.org/jon/orwell/Canadian%20Hate%20Speech%20Law.htm
Actually, I'd be a bit afraid to link on some of these depending on your profession if a Canadian resident...doesn't it feel a bit subversive?
Here's a scary quote from the first link I listed (probably the best link): "It's no longer news that the country north of the border is gradually turning into a repressive police state. Although the bureaucrats who run Canada still pay lip service to such rights as freedom of speech, there are a raft of topics that are off-limits to public discussion."(July 9, 2001)
My purpose is not to shove my political ideology down your throat, but for you to decide for yourself if anyone else is doing it (for your own 'good', by force). Peace to you wonderful neighbors to the North! Don't let your masters spam/rape your mind! | |
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Fafnir
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Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 292 | |
| feminism/sexism
Posted: 2/22/2005 4:07:01 PM | meekly:
So if it specific to gender, race or creed, cencorship of it is acceptable. However you reserve your individual right to make up your own hateful remarks? I am just trying to understand the finer points of the distinction between what is considered hate propaganda, and every day disparagement of, say, people who live in trailers. You are not welcome in my trailer, by the way, nothing personal. meek,you were much more coherent, spelling correctly, and less hostile to disagreement with others in your posts earlier today. Thirsty? | |
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Fafnir
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Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 293 | |
| feminism/sexism
Posted: 2/22/2005 4:17:11 PM | "bow down to the fairer sex and beg forgiveness!"
Now that doesn't sound like much of a punishment at all! Then again, I have been bad... | |
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| feminism/sexism
Posted: 2/22/2005 4:18:06 PM | we are all bad and must beg for forgiveness.....
 someone shot me in the head
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| feminism/sexism
Posted: 2/22/2005 4:27:12 PM | I stopped using spellcheck. My typing sux. Hostility was not my intent. I found it there and asked about it. That is always a mistake. It is not wise to stop to answer someone who is angry about something. I'm working on it. As for coherence, the exception would be any semblance of lucidity you saw. It may well have been accidental. Chaos is the default mode at my house.
A drink would be good right now though, come to think of it. | |
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| Does Feminism exacerbate suicide rates?
Posted: 2/22/2005 7:25:58 PM | I truly don't get it. I don't quite understand why some men are so terrified of women. Seems to me that most men are not. But those that are, live in terror. What would cause this reaction to women? A bad upbringing? Please explain.
Also, I see nothing as beautiful as equality between men and women. It's actually SEXY! Why on earth would some men be afraid of that? (sigh!!) I doubt those men who are afraid of women would ever answer me that, but I wish they would. | |
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| Does Feminism exacerbate suicide rates?
Posted: 2/22/2005 7:59:22 PM | | I don't know what is behind it. I have always treated women very well. I am not afraid of women. I just think some women have a store of vengeful anger that comes out in a blind rage against men in general, but that gets directed at one in particular. When you're on the receiving end of that you learn to see the signs of it in how women act and what they say. Feminism can be an approved cover for women with viscious tempers. They can lash out and claim it's self-defense against male domination. It's like a free pass. Unfortunately when I have tried to discuss this, to understand it, things get personal and hostile real quick. Then the discussion is ended by deletion from the site. I give up trying to understand this here. It has been compelling to try, since it puzzles me and has to do with my own experiences. I think this just is the wrong forum for this discussion. | |
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| Does Feminism exacerbate suicide rates?
Posted: 2/22/2005 8:03:52 PM | FRIENDS? Okay, would you give me more a hint than that? What do you mean by "certain" women, and what do you mean by "evil?"
Only by being specific can we get to the heart of the matter. | |
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