| Does Feminism exacerbate suicide rates?
Posted: 2/22/2005 8:07:30 PM | | sure they do, any one can identify a group as an enemy and take it out on a member of that group. it's the same for racism, for example | |
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Fafnir
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Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 303 | |
| Bluesbabe,
Posted: 2/23/2005 12:52:35 PM | Bluesbabe said: 1.
...Do you not recognize that in time Zundel would have been encouraging violence? HItler was all about world domination and genocide. Genocide IS racism in it's most drastic form. You want to allow people who think this way to be able to espouse this publicly? I dont. I think they should have fried Zundel's racist little ass. Zundel and David Irving are intellectual slime, using lies in the guise of scholarship to promote hate. Much like Ward Churchill at CU-Boulder. But as much as I hate what they're saying, it's beyond frightening for the government to decide by prior restraint to limit what they can say in the marketplace of ideas. I'd prefer that they be publicly exposed as liars and frauds, then suffer their rightful reward as a dupe or a laughingstock.
To advocate physical violence against a group of people (genocide) by necessity requires a violent overthrow of the government. There are very powerful mechanisms to deal with that without censorship, repression, and imprisonment. The censor becomes the object of ridicule while creating "martyrs" and a distraction from hateful ideas that will always slither out from the fringe. Ideas that are better left exposed to public ridicule.
2.
Shall we start with Bin Laden? He is racist. And he would no doubt, with no conscience, blow the U.S. ass off the map if he had his way. Would you like HIM coming to your country and advertising his special blend of hate? How women should be seen and not heard? How we can't vote or attend school?I think not. I don't think bin Laden is a racist; he will embrace anyone who will agree to carry out a mission for him, like John Walker Lindh, the white kid from California. But I understand your larger point.
Bin Laden's Wahabbism and the Islamic Brotherhood are violent fascistic political ideologies operating under the cover of and woven into the tapestry of the religion of Islam, which makes it an especially insidious enemy for Western democracies to combat, with the rights we try to extend to all. The liberals are the very first they would subjugate/kill if they achieved victory. And, I would love it if bin Laden himself came to the United States.
3.
I don't need to see a posting from my government to know I don't want Skinheads in my country. I don't want racism here and nor do I want bigotry or sexism. And if you think it's ok to put that crap up on billboards my friend? I don't want YOU in my country either. Canada is about freedom without oppression. This kind of goes back to the first point made in this exchange, but there is a concerted effort to import the ideals of Canadian suppression of offending speech to the US, as commonly seen on any campus. The repression becomes an illusion of freedom with ever-shrinking loopholes. Loopholes, a freedom yet to be eliminated. For your own good, by coercion.
I think all of us know that such things have always led to a very tragic and brutal end.
4.
You can revert back to the 60's when it was thought that ANY form of censorship would result in a police-state but let's be real. There is enough hatred and prejudice to go around as it is. Making it illegal provides protection and maintains the civil liberties all can enjoy. Your right to be Jewish or Catholic. Your right to be free from discrimination or harassment because of gender, ethnicity or...
So yeah I'll take my little old "police state" of Canada and keep those nasty old anti-hate laws. They keep the fanatics in check. My opinon on this is that provisions for equal protection for Constitutional/(Canadian Charter?) rights under the law can restrain the government from infringing on the rights of the citizen without branding one who has an opinion on something as a dangerous ideologue who must be silenced and imprisoned so as not to offend. The speech-code tends to produce a government imposed uniformity of approved opinion, or at least the expression of it. Not for a minute do I want to rip you wonderful Canadians or your country, but enforced expression of opinion forces an artificial and very bland public discourse where only the approved ideas are allowed. Which keeps this whole discussion on topic with the original thread.
Feminism/sexism are repressive ideologies designed to stifle debate and enforce conformity to the ideas of academic elites in their ivory towers. Enforced by the power of government.
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Thanks PoF, I LOVE this board! | |
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Fafnir
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Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 304 | |
| Does Feminism exacerbate suicide rates?
Posted: 2/23/2005 1:26:17 PM | Bluesbabe said:
"Feminism is dehumanizing"... And who's definition of feminism are you using here? A males? Or a females?...WHOA!! That's a stretch. Perhaps MORE women are suicidal because just maybe they realize there COULD be more to their lives then what they are currently being served. That the women might want MORE out of life than "2nd place" and lower pay for same jobs as men. Hmm
*bats the ball over the net to fafnir* I've tried to illustate my opinion that the belief and practice of feminism discourages the expression of both natural femininity and masculinity as it exists within us as a development of our species and is bound up with us biologically. To enforce the ignoring of reality of the traits of either sex by the power of government is dehumanizing. And it relegates all citizens to the status of 2nd class in service of a theory which ignores all human experience while being hypocritical and fraudulent.
As I type, I'm hearing on the radio there are new academic studies from Duke University showing that girls, while attempting suicide more often than boys, succeed at it much less often, they are less likely to be criminals or crime victims, and they are more likely to graduate from both high school and college than are boys. But I'm sure it's not really 'news' among those who study sociology. I favor studies that prove men and women are 'wired' differently in profound ways, as it tends to undercut the falsities of feminism that would create victimization where none exists.
When all the factors of the condition of being female (pregnancy, whatever illnesses they are more prone to contracting) are appraised and weighed against those of being male, then I oppose women receiving less pay than a man for the same job, and I would agree that would be discriminatory. Hypocrisy and dishonesty are what I hope we would all oppose so that all are treated fairly by the government. | |
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Fafnir
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Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 305 | |
| saritamiami,
Posted: 2/23/2005 2:01:01 PM | saritamiami said:
I truly don't get it. I don't quite understand why some men are so terrified of women. Seems to me that most men are not. But those that are, live in terror. What would cause this reaction to women? A bad upbringing? Please explain.
Also, I see nothing as beautiful as equality between men and women. It's actually SEXY! Why on earth would some men be afraid of that? (sigh!!) I doubt those men who are afraid of women would ever answer me that, but I wish they would. Just from my personal experience that I can't generalize to all men, when I was younger I was much more afraid of some women, and I'll always be afraid of disappointing my mom. Though I'm older now and don't understand the female mind any better now (except it's been proven beyond doubt to me that women are more sensible) than I did then, the only terror experienced by men of women is on a personal level, i.e. fear of rejection and the like. A man that fears all women is likely burdened with a very unhealthy mind.
I just don't equate feminism with femininity. At the risk of beating that dead horse, it's my belief feminism discourages it while enforcing artificial emasculation.
sarita, I agree that true equality between the sexes is beautiful and sexy, but that feminism has created an unnatural hostility between us as a byproduct of all of its hypocrisy and false conclusions in the aim of achieving a dehumanizing political goal. Recognition of natural abilities and evolved biological roles for men and women without artificially denying their existence would obviate the need for feminism altogether, and that is a frightening prospect for my ideological opponents. And they don't like the fact that many young women find the term 'feminist' distasteful, as they see its' true applied meaning. Yes, I am an Ideologue. I believe in something.
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PoF, I LOVE this board!
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Fafnir
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Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 306 | |
| Smoke drifts over the battlefield
Posted: 2/23/2005 8:10:20 PM | I'm glad you were seeing that I kept pregnancy separate from illness. Also, it didn't occur to me before about the whack-jobs that consider pregnancy to be the condition of being infested by a malignant parasite, which tends to fall under the rubric of nihilistic Leftism, but there's no way I'm going to try to infer that because you embrace feminism, you accept all of its components. That one is best left for the arguments about abortion, and I'm not so sure I could survive that one as well as I've done here.
I'll call it a draw. Nope, neither of us is going to change the other's mind, and that's OK. I really enjoyed the debate, and I congratulate both of us not descending into name-calling. I'm a conservative guy, and not once did you call me a Nazi. (I think you would've lost just then). Never once did I call you a d*mn dirty Communist. Of course, I would've lost right then. If you are a Communist, then you're the first one that's ever allowed dissent.
Hey, what's that big black SUV with the tinted windows and those guys in suits and sunglasses doing at my front and back door?  HAHAHAHA!
It's been a pleasure lockin horns with ya Dar, I'm sure we will again. Martin. | |
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| does feminism = sexism = machoism just the other gender?
Posted: 2/24/2005 1:13:56 AM | Aw isn't that cute, look for my next thread ... Children' Aid, or Child Abuse...
I'm glad that we have come full circle. It has been a side splitting read...lol
Cheers to all who contributed, LOVE YA ALL! I love when brains get a work out and POF is a great place to get some exersize! And when I get tired, there is always the singles...lol So with no further adu...I bring you the next thread, somewhere here...lol
J.
ps, feel free to add to this thread as all new posters are valued, as long as you value the person and challenge the ideas if challenge is what you must.   | |
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| feminism/sexism
Posted: 3/21/2005 4:29:28 AM | | Um yeaaaaaaaaah riggggggggggght . How about just no dude just no | |
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| Is feminism sexism?
Posted: 1/3/2006 9:13:52 PM | | Please read "Who Stole Feminism" by Christina Hoff-summers. | |
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| Is feminism sexism?
Posted: 7/9/2006 9:18:43 AM | Feminsim is a bit like any other olfty idealism and has followed a similar patttern
1/ The higher the idealiogy the more of a sacrred cow it is
2/ The more taboo it is to critisise or even question it
3/ The more it's leadership is open to internal take over and corruption
4/ The more removed the movement becomes from it's original ideals
5/ The morre the true idealist leave the movement in disgust
6/ The faster the movement destroys itself from the inside.
many relegions have come and gone in this way. The black movement, cominism, and feminism. | |
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| Is feminism sexism?
Posted: 7/9/2006 9:31:29 AM | ...his loss. d@mn straight. sux that there are so many men like that, makes the good ones look bad.
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Don't you kid yourself Sid. Oh I've little doubt that you have heard plenty of women griping about men who "abandon their kids after the divorce". But many men, including the two who howled on my shoulder, have told a different story.
It goes something like this.
1/ In order to garantee full custody mum has accused dad of molesting the kids
2/ With the molesting charges still hangin over his head the family law court allows dad only two hours a fortnight access to the kids in supervised access centres.
3/ The criminal courts completely vindicate dad
4/ Despite this dad can only visit the kids in these supervised centres. These are deliberiately set up to resemble the visiting cupicles at a jail
5/ With this set up its not hard for mum to convince the kids that dads turned evil and they grow to hate him. This is the stage wher many dads just blow their brains out.
6/ Eventually it gets so bad that dad just stops attending the visitors centres.
7/ Dad finds a new gf with a couple of nice kids and they adopt him. (not the other way round)
8/ Mum finds a new bf but keeps her kids quiet.
9/ Dad marrries his new lady.
10/ Mum is trying to spend more time with her new bf, while keeping quiet about her kids, and tells dad that he can take the kids for the full weekend. ( This is actually contempt of court on mums part. They have ordered supervised access only and mum is technically placing them at risk in the care of somebody charged with child molesting)
11/ With his new family taking all his time and his own kids raised to hate him dad refuses.
12/ Mum goes moaning to the girlfriends about the way the father has abandoned his family. | |
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| Is feminism sexism?
Posted: 7/9/2006 9:42:06 AM | Absolutely. Feminism is anti-white-heterosexual-male hate mongering.
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Mike
Thats the last thing that true feminism is.
But it's the first thing thats paraded as feminism.
Try a few of these choice clips.
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"Female heterosexuality is not a biological drive or an individual women's erotic attraction or attachment to another human animal which happens to be male. Female heterosexuality is a set of social institutions and practices... Those definitions... are about the oppression and exploitation of women [by men]."
— Marilyn Frye, Willful Virgin: Essays in Feminism, 1976-1992
"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them."
— Robin Morgan, (editor of MS magazine)
“…[I]t is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men... All of history must be re-written in terms of oppression of women.
The Declaration of Feminism, November 1971
"The Feminists -v- The Marriage License Bureau of the State of New York ...All the discriminatory practices against women are patterned and rationalized by this slavery-like practice. We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage."
— Sisterhood Is Powerful, Robin Morgan (ed), 1970, p. 537. | |
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| Is feminism sexism?
Posted: 7/9/2006 10:19:41 AM | When feminism is about equality, I will stand right behind it, but when it's "I have every right to do everything that you do, regardless of the fact that I'm a woman" I start taking issue with it.
Facts:
- Men think differently than women, women think differently than men, no better, no worse, just different; Some men therefore are cut out better for some jobs, some women are cut out better for others.
- Men (in general) tend to be stronger and more physically abled. If I'm laying injured in a burning building and some feminist that has the job based on the fact that she's filling the required female quotient at the fire station needs to carry me out, there's a high chance she's not going to be able to do it. I'd rather have someone that's more suited to the job carry me out.
I'm the first to stand up and advocate women's rights and fight for equality and think their views and opinions merit consideration every bit as much as a man's. I can't stand those femnazis (as it was put earlier) that won't let me help based purely on the fact that I'm a man. I'm a helpful guy and go out of my way to help because I can, not because I'm a man. If you find yourselves doing anything just because you don't want a man to help you, admit to yourselves that you hate men and get a girlfriend! | |
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| Is feminism sexism?
Posted: 7/9/2006 4:21:14 PM | If I'm laying injured in a burning building and some feminist that has the job based on the fact that she's filling the required female quotient at the fire station needs to carry me out, there's a high chance she's not going to be able to do it. I'd rather have someone that's more suited to the job carry me out.
Good example!
Feminism, to me, means equal OPPORTUNITY in the workforce, education, politics. Not ENTITLEMENT. Physical qualifications are perfectly reasonable.
If a specific woman can move it, lift it, carry it, she should have the same chance at the job, but I don't want an extremist feminist agenda to cause realistic qualifications to be lowered.
That means there will probably always be more male firefighters than women firefighters. Anyone who thinks that's sexist is being ridiculous. I hope they never have to find out the hard way.
By the way, I consider myself a feminist. It appalls me that it's become a bad word. It's supposed to be all about respect. | |
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| Is feminism sexism?
Posted: 7/9/2006 6:13:24 PM | ^^^ DITTO
Hey Most ISM's start for a very good reason but sometimes they need tweaked...
If everything started out on an even playing field we'd all be the better for it...
Until then we'll have to live and hopefully learn together...
Have a nice day  | |
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| Is feminism sexism?
Posted: 7/9/2006 10:18:01 PM |
It's only been 85 years since women in the USA got the right to vote, and we still don't have anywhere near a propotionate number of elected officials.
Feminism will have acheived it's goals in that area when women have the equal RIGHT to run for office (which they have now).
Unfortunatly, just because women run, it doesn't mean that others (including women) have to vote for them.
Nor does it mean that women have to be attracted to public office in the same numbers as men have.
Counting numbers is a fool's game. That's why it's only indulged in by statisticians and ..... ummmm ...... fools | |
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Posted: 9/8/2006 3:02:18 AM | wow this thread is still growing... nice to see so many opinions and people who have shared some great links for farther investigation.
  peace
Orzel | |
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| Is feminism sexism?
Posted: 2/7/2009 10:01:45 PM | | Well I think the whole meaning behind the word feminazi is a female who claims that the female gender is superior to that of the male gender. Isn't that sick,vicious and sexist? How is one different from the other? | |
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| Is feminism sexism?
Posted: 2/8/2009 9:19:14 AM | I have zero issue with true feminists. They're a rare breed who actually believes in gender equity. I'm fine with that.
The issue I have is with the menu feminists, where women pick and choose which items they want gender equity and which items they want traditional gender roles. Unfortunately, this is the vast majority of women. They want their equal rights to vote, find employment, in wages and in education. Yet, they still expect men to cater to the items they do not want gender equity. Like in their personal relationships where men are expected to pay for everything by being suckers...er...um..."gentlemen." | |
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| Is feminism sexism?
Posted: 2/8/2009 5:09:48 PM | Well, we still get paid an average of 40% less just for having a vagina
fix the leak, keep my car running, I mean... as if I really have "time" (translate: money, know-how) to do these things. | |
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