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| Coming to tearms with religion...gonna be a tough one....
Posted: 3/17/2007 1:32:39 PM | Cleo: While married and bringing up our children I was in the exact position you are. My wife was catholic and I was athiest. I felt hyocritical and at odds everytime I entered a church. I had a bad attitude towards religion, God and people who preached it. It was important to my wife though and I decided to let her guide the children in the ways of spirituality. It seemed fair since I had none to speak of. Our children went to and thrived in the catholic school. And I found I actually enjoyed hearing my children talk about God, Jesus and the such. Children present God in a whole new light and flavor then what adults do.
Conversations about my disbelieve and why I didn't go to church with the rest of the family were pretty rare. It was just accepted and wasn't a big deal.
As a new parent most of us worry about a lot of things that could happen in the future and we question how and if we'll handle it properly. But as you mature in parenthood you'll be surprised how the answers come as you enter into particular circumstances. And children are smarter than we give them credit for. My chidren, for example, were never confused with the issue of religion or my wifes believe and my disbelieve. From a childs perspective it's not much different than when one parent is a smoker and the other a non-smoker. The children get to see two sides of an issue and eventually will weigh things for themselfs and make their own decision. | |
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| Coming to tearms with religion...gonna be a tough one....
Posted: 3/30/2007 10:03:12 PM | Cleopatracutie: Your note has so many parts and facets to it, that I don't think there is any one answer here that can address it all; but, I really really think that you're doing something great(!) by bringing all of this up and trying to look at it all and all of its parts! Your honesty here is breathtakingly beautiful!
Much more than wanting to tell you where to look or what solutions might be, I just want to look at a couple of things that you wrote, and ask you to, deep within yourself, look at them some more and try to pick them apart, REALLY! (as in really pick them apart!).
The first time that you said what you don't like, you refered to it as 'religious politics'. There is nothing wrong with hating religious politics! Go all the way back to Martin Luther pinning a list of 97 inconsistancies within the church on the door. Was he 'bad'? NO! He was honest! Go back further to when Jesus, at the age of 12 argued with the priests in the temple...same basic arguements!
Later, you mention what you don't like how religion always brings on fights and is a major cause of war in the world today. Hating this is probably not only OK, it's probably RIGHT! God doesn't want us to go to war, and He certainly doesn't want us to kill 'because' of Him!
If you end up in front of those priests and teachers and etc.,...... my bet is that if you speak your mind about how you hate how 'religion isn't right!', and you do it in a way that is calm and clear, THERE'S A HUGE CHANCE THAT THEY WILL AGREE WITH YOU! In these two points, you have just hit upon how we as humans have so corrupted something into being something that isn't supposed to be that way.
Let me point out one thing that I did NOT see in your writing here. In all instances, you talked about religion. Can I say that with this I think you are looking carefully at the structure of the house, which is very imperfect. But as well, in all instances, you didn't talk about any hatred of the 'belief in God' or in having a 'relationship with God' or even 'God him/her self'! Instead you talked about the imperfections of the structure that we humans have created in order to 'try to reach God'. Please ask yourself if it is God that you hate, or if it's the structure us humans use that you hate. As I read and re-read your paragraph, it really struck me how you talked about those things around God, but not God him/her self.
As one other at least suggested above, you've got time before you're going to have to wrestle with the moments of these fears...it will be years before your son is in school, etc. You've got lots of time to do probably the most important thing that you can do for your baby: love him like only a mother can, nurture him as he needs, parent him no matter how hard it seems, and take good care of him first. Provide a stable world for him; don't have a million men coming and going, give him some routine that he can count on, keep the disarray down as possible (while still allowing LIFE and enjoying the vibrance of being human). And when the time comes to talk with the priests and the teachers and the so-ons, by then, just have it sorted out in your mind what you believe deep inside about you and your God and let them know that. And if you feel the need to talk about how religon isn't perfect, do it with dignity and a firm but loving manor toward your recipient, and I'm quite certain that nobody will argue. "Religion" is not perfect, and I think anybody who's honest knows that! And if between now and then you can figure out where you stand with God (not religion), you'll have two choices and you'll know which road to take: either you'll know that you don't believe in God, in which case you really don't want to, and shouldn't, send your child to church and other institutions that will teach him things you know are not true, OR, you'll know by then that you actually indeed do believe in God deep inside but just don't appreciate what humankind has done to create and corrupt a structure intended to be as perfect as He is, but never being able to achieve that goal because it's made from humans, ...and then let that be the principle that guides your statements. And make THAT clear. You'll do fine! Oh, and one more thing, just remember to love the person you're talking to regardless; they will think so much MORE of you after. | |
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| Coming to tearms with religion...gonna be a tough one....
Posted: 4/3/2007 11:46:16 AM | | I have gone through the same with my son, only during his upbringing my position as regards the church changed drastically. I would advise you not to be afraid to let your child hear what others have to say, he is going to hear it anyway. Besides, believe you me, the worste case scenario here is that you rebuke something that your child might ultimately grow to connect with. Remember that faith need not be brokered, we all have direct access to Jesus (that's my belief), and that it is the job of the church not to broker faith but to foster it. Remember also that members of the church are human, like any of the rest of us, and prone to things like profiteering like the rest of us are. But I hold now that the people I meet through church are predominantly good above all else, and anxious not to push their beliefs on others in an effort to strengthen their own (as it appears to some of us at first glance), but to see their beliefs in others in order to further justify their own (which is innocent and simple). I was not always strong enough to hold my tongue, as you put it, when my opinion leaned against religion (though I maintain it leaned always in favor of God), and one day God finally forced me to take a good look at my actions. They are painful to watch. | |
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| Coming to tearms with religion...gonna be a tough one....
Posted: 9/29/2007 11:53:40 PM | | I am getting much better and my son even if I have a time with my believes in god is the most precious thing, it must have been something devine that knew I needed him even if it wasn't god himself. I still have hard veiws when it comes to one god or the thoughts that he or they exsist, as I am sure some of you remember I am as likely to believe I will cross the styx as I am to believe in god but something after life yes I do think so. | |
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| Coming to tearms with religion...gonna be a tough one....
Posted: 1/10/2008 6:48:49 AM | First off
Children ALWAYS know when we are less than honest with them. They may not know exactly what or why, but they will sense the conflict... and that causes confusion in them. No matter what you do... they will know deep down how you actually feel about something and if it isn't dealt with they will adopt that and internalize it.
Honesty is the ONLY way to raise a child. Hypocrisy will cause nothing but chaos for a child. Sorry...that's the way it is.
I've had this conversation with myself... I want my kid to have a sense of the divine.. and since my "path" is highly esoteric it is difficult to explain to a small child... but I also want to avoid indoctrination. Just because mommy believes such and such, doesn't mean it is true for her. Hard...because a child sees a parent as a representative of god.. you ARE god to your child, until they begin to see you as a fallible human being. (another difficult transition)
I don't understand why you would send your child to Catholic School if it isn't a hard core belief of yours... your child will see that, and it will cause confusion. Forget about the school and priests.. who cares what they think. This is between you and your child and "god" (or no god) Catholic teaching of children is pretty intense.. including catechism and confirmation and choices a child really can not make. I have nothing against Catholicism, but I do not believe in getting a child to make these deep and profound choices so young.
You really need to find out for yourself before committing a child to a certain religious training WHAT YOU believe, and why.. and what freedom to choose you wish to give to your child. If you can't be honest about it then it is my humble suggestion that you get that straight first. Trust me... you do not want to come to the day where your child uses your indecision as a reason to rebel.
Oh...congratulations! Enjoy your child now...while innocence and true wonder is still in it's eyes. THAT is true spirituality. There is much to learn about divinity from children. It's a very precious gift, to see the world again through the eyes of a child. Plus you an also play with lego!!!!
Peace | |
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| Coming to tearms with religion...gonna be a tough one....
Posted: 1/10/2008 10:03:22 AM | OP, I'd suggest that you quit worrying about it. As Ravenstar pointed out, Children pick up on any level of dishonesty. If you are not honest with yourself as to the reasons that you dislike religion, then your child will know. You may be able to pretend to yourself, like we all can, but your child has not yet developed that sense of guile. He's going to wonder:
1) Why do you blame the actions of people on religion?
2) If you don't like religion, how can you have anything in common with your boyfriend, who does like religion?
3) If you don't like religion, and you are the mother, who is the main guardian of your child, then why are you sending your child to a religious school? It's not to get on with your boyfriend, because you are the mother, and your decisions are the ones that the child must follow.
So one way or another, your child is likely to be confused. If I was you, I'd just stick to loving that child. If there is anything he's going to need to know in the upcoming years, it's that somebody loves him for who he is, unconditionally. | |
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| Coming to tearms with religion...gonna be a tough one....
Posted: 1/11/2008 1:25:26 AM | I noticed that the original post is actually pretty old, but allow me to add these thoughts to the discussion:
For me, as a Catholic, receiving a Catholic education is very important, and I spent about a year's worth of my savings to put my younger brother and sister through the Catholic school attached to my parish church. There was a time in the United States, until about 40 years ago, when Catholics were not allowed to send their children to public schools, especially because at that time, public schools were considered Protestant by default (non-Catholic Christian). The American Catholic education system developed largely after an incident in the early 1800's when a Catholic child attended a public school and was required to read out of the (Protestant) King James Bible. She refused, and later on, a mob burned her family's house down.
In you did decide to enroll or continue your child's education in a Catholic system, though, you need to be aware of this: that all Catholic schools are NOT equal. Sure, there are many Catholic schools which academically outperform public schools or are 3 or 4 years more advanced than the public schools. And if it's a good school, it will have things like daily Mass, solid religious instruction, and a curriculum centered around classical education (the humanities, Greek and Latin, serious study of the writings of Greek philosophers and Catholic saints, etc.)
BUT, not all Catholic schools are like that. Some Catholic schools are actually very bad. The girls get knocked up and pregnant in high school, the kids buy and sell drugs, academics are sub-par or the school only cares about how good the football team is, the religious instruction is horrible or the teachers are unbelievers themselves and mock the Church's teachings, and by the time the kids graduate, they all despise the Catholic faith. Now, since you're not Catholic yourself, the last one is probably not a concern of yours, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.
There is one final question of mine for you: if the Catholic education is so important to your boyfriend, has he asked to marry you yet? (assuming you are still together and/or living with him) I don't look down upon people who have children out of wedlock as though I'm morally superior or anything (and even with serious Catholics like myself, we make mistakes and confess our sins), but it's extremely hypocritical for a guy to demand his child gets a Catholic education when he himself isn't going to follow a teaching as simple as being married! As I'm sure you know (allow me to get on my moral high horse here for a minute, and I'll get off, I promise), the Catholic Church, in accordance with the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Scriptures, and the oral Tradition of the Apostles, teaches that sex is a sacred act and to have any sex outside of the sacred bond of Matrimony is a sin against what God has provided for His people.
If sending his kid to Catholic school is important to him but getting married isn't, then he has his list of priorities seriously messed up. The Catholic faith is not just a bunch of family traditions and pressures (I converted on my own, so I don't even deal with any of those). It's something you strive to live with your whole heart, soul, and mind. | |
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| Coming to tearms with religion...gonna be a tough one....
Posted: 1/11/2008 9:04:07 PM | ^^^ Gotta love this guy. Keepin' it real. 
It's a good few points though.
1) Only send your child to a Catholic school which is good for the kid, and where they will teach your child a positive, life-affirming and tolerant view of the world. No point making life harder for him than it needs to be.
2) If your b/f is such a believer in Catholicism, and wants to send his child to Catholic school, and loves you, why has he not asked you to marry him?
3) Anyway, I hear that it's a lot easier to get into Catholic school, if they can see that the parents will be more supportive of the school, like if the parents are married. Catholic schools don't want to fight with parents either. | |
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| Coming to tearms with religion...gonna be a tough one....
Posted: 8/10/2008 8:25:36 PM | | Its not that I hate god I just can't believe all the war that comes from it. I will keep those feelings under my hat until he is able to understand I just do not understand how people can feel just in bloodshed and righteous for it. I never thought it was right from ancient history until this day. All in his name and who thinks whats right on their end must be enforced unto another group of people its never ending and if god does exist I would lay money on it he is no happy camper with his children and their ways. My guy does follow his doctrine and it is our choice not to marry lol neither of us see fit to toss 20 grand at wedding costs lol. I will cope and know my son will find his own mind set I just don't want to turn him against it if you can dig that lol. | |
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