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| | Abortions soon to become illegal againPage 62 of 63 (23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63) | whosyourbadkitty...
Just a couple comments, clarifications and quotes that you mentioned in your post
HIPPOCRATIC OATH
Portion of the Hippocratic Oath taken by REAL Doctors! >>>… "I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art..."
PREAMBLE to the Constitution of the USA
"People in the Womb" or those who are not yet born, are mentioned in the US Constitution, eventhough Pro-Choice folks say they are not >>>...“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
You can look up Posterity on Dictionary.com ;)
Finally...
Roe v Wade
It seems to me the continuous debate over abortion since Roe v. Wade means that the issue certainly is NOT settled. Besides, if the Supreme Court were the final arbiter of morality, then the Dred Scott decision of 1857 affirming slavery would still stand.
But we all know now that Dred Scott was a bad law. Likewise, many think that Roe v. Wade is a bad law. Legal decisions are overturned all the time and this Conservative Supreme Court may overturn it. However, Time Will Tell.
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| Abortions will always be legal, somewhere
Posted: 9/19/2006 12:21:54 PM | "The scare tactic that it will force women into backrooms to abort by way of a coathanger
is a canard at best."
Tripdave, it is an entirely logical assumption. Legalized abortion becomes harder to obtain-illegal and perhaps questionable abortions fill the market gap. I'd be willing to bet that after the implimentation of Roe vs. Wade statistics will show a decline in the number of "botched" abortions. Some women do not have the option to travel to another state for an abortion as well.
For the woman that argues for mandatory counseling, do you think a woman comes to a decision to abort her pregnancy lightly? Do you think the cries of "murderer" from the peanut gallery as she walks into a clinic have any effect on her? Count me as one against a patronizing agenda.
The Democratic Party is a shambles in many ways. The stance on abortion needs to be moderated. The issue of people being fundamentally against abortion being forced to fund it through their tax dollars needs to be reconsidered. Without that there is no wonder why a mind of conviction thinks of us all as babykillers.
Woman's decision, who pays for it up to the voting public.
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| Abortions will always be legal, somewhere
Posted: 9/19/2006 4:45:44 PM | | if i lived in the united states and the actuality of abortions be come illegal... i would consider not paying my taxes. As i would not have the consideration of making my own judgement of my own body. Welcome to being second class citizens again... it's BS all over. Religions, and state should stay out of choice issues. | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 9/20/2006 6:54:23 PM | q1... if you're going to google the hippocratic oath... don't quote the original greek translation. move forward and copy and paste today's rendition. ;) and if anyone needs to look anything up, i would suggest you look up the definition of pessary. it's called birth control.
"Never to attempt to induce an abortion. The wide availability of abortions in much of the world suggests that many physicians no longer feel bound by this."
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
another source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pessary
doctors who perform abortions for women who might otherwise die, are honoring their oath, even the catholic church recognizes this to be true. it is women who use abortion as a means of birth control who need to be dealt with in some legal manner if at all possible. even women who abuse their right to privacy don't deserve to have their rights stripped from them as US Citizens. it all boils down to what a woman does with her body is none of your business or anyone elses for that matter... it is she who will have to live with the consequences and god she has to answer to in the end. | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 9/21/2006 1:37:47 AM | Before Roe v. Wade, the bible thumpers were obsessed with trying to outlaw birth control.
If Roe v. Wade is overturned, they will try to criminalize birth control again. | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 9/21/2006 6:33:36 AM | | itsmeinco... we live in a world riddled with HIV & AIDS so i'm not worried about anyone abolishing "safe sex", let alone birth control. and if all else fails, abstinence is a choice no one can force you to relinquish. i won't ever put myself in a position to have to choose abortion but i also don't fear that option will be taken from other women who might make that choice for their own personal reasons. like i've said before... prolifers and prochoicers are on the same page when it comes to abortion. neither side wants to see women allowed to have abortions after a certain point in the pregnancy and of all the prolifers out there, only 2% of that population wants to see the procedure banned entirely. just as 2% of the gay population didn't sway the vote on gay marriage... 2% of the prolifers vote won't sway any decision made on this topic. just as gay couples can go to another state to get married, women can and will go to another state for abortion if the state they live in bans the procedure. | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 9/28/2006 5:07:26 AM | | It has always struck me as a control issue for men to ban abortion. Men have no risks in pregnancy, they don't always suffer a financial hardship, they can semingly come and go as they please, yet the woman has this baby for life. The frontlines of every anti-abortion demonstration are paced with screaming men and their brainwashed wives and children who simply don't know any better. And as we all know, as soon as their little 13 year old daughter comes home pregnant by their twisted uncle, all their beliefs are out the door and that pregnancy is no more! Men are the ones who continually try and decide for women how they should think and use their bodies. It's my opinion that until men can have a baby themselves, they will always have to take a backseat as to whether a baby is taken to term or not.To blindly say go forth and procreate makes no sense in a world of almost 7 billion people. Most of them living far below the poverty level, and many not enjying anything close to a quality of life for themselves, let alone for a baby born without a father or a safe world to come into. | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 9/30/2006 8:22:38 PM | offkilter72...
It is genuinely sad that what you shared is actually the consensus of many people out there. But a QUESTION needs to be asked here..."Does the Absence of Consensus, mean the Absence of Truth?" Appealing to the "majority" is really NOT a good "indicator" of whether something is RIGHT or WRONG...
You wrote...
It has always struck me as a control issue for men to ban abortion. Men have no risks in pregnancy, they don't always suffer a financial hardship, they can semingly come and go as they please, yet the woman has this baby for life.
What you say is mostly just "bantering" of the same ole pro-abortion rhetoric that you think has only ONE solution for an unwanted pregnancy.....Abortion. (Abortion has only ONE option....a Dead Developing Human Being) And when I say rhetoric, I do mean that in an understanding way. Because I do sense that you have just been indoctrinated and not really educated on the subject of abortion. But for the sake of argument, I will focus on your comment of "financial hardship"....
People will say in the Abortion Debate…”Would you force a poor woman, that can’t afford another child, to bring another child into this world?” My question for that is this…”When Human Beings, become “expensive”, may we “kill” them?” Would we think it “Right” for a family, to “kill” a toddler, so that the family budget wouldn’t be strained? I think most of us would say NO…
Thus, if people in the womb are just as “Human” as the “toddler” is…we shouldn’t KILL it, simply because it “gets-in-the-way” of the family budget. Should we?
The frontlines of every anti-abortion demonstration are paced with screaming men and their brainwashed wives and children who simply don't know any better. And as we all know, as soon as their little 13 year old daughter comes home pregnant by their twisted uncle, all their beliefs are out the door and that pregnancy is no more!
"And as we all know"??? Where do you come up with these strange, warped stories like this? Its either PURE Pro-abortion "make up the story to justify abortion" or the sick imagination of a really twisted individual that will say ANYTHING to get their point across, no matter if its Truth or a Lie. Has your integrity really taken a "backseat" to this issue?
In Fact, I will use a quote from a Pro-Abortion Feminist who realized where this Pro-Abortion Indoctrination was headed...
Feminist Naomi Wolf, a PRO-ABORTION advocate, wrote… "We are in jeopardy of losing something MORE important than VOTES. We are in jeopardy of losing, what can only be described, as OUR SOULS.......Clinging to a Rhetoric, where there is NO Life and Death, we entangle our “beliefs” in a series of SELF-DELUSIONS, FIBS and EVASIONS... and we “risk” becoming callous, selfish, and casually destructive men and women, who share a “CHEAPENED” view of Human LIFE.”
I Believe that SAYS it all !!! The Pro-Abortion Rhetoric "shares" a CHEAPENED View of Human Life.
And I believe what YOU are saying, is just a repitition of Anti-ProLife (Pro-Abortion) Agenda. And I think YOU know what I am saying makes MUCH more sense....
Men are the ones who continually try and decide for women how they should think and use their bodies. It's my opinion that until men can have a baby themselves, they will always have to take a backseat as to whether a baby is taken to term or not.
Ummm...Abortion is NOT a Gender issue, but rather, a HUMAN RIGHTS issue.
If MEN are NOT supposed to "speak" on ABORTION...then we need to OVERTURN Roe vs. Wade! NOW!!!! After all, Roe vs. Wade was decided by 7 out of 9 MEN!
Also, If MEN are NOT supposed to "speak" on ABORTION…then ALL "MALE" Pro-CHOICE attorneys need to QUIT!!! NOW!!!
As a man…a Human Being…I have been through the Birth Process…Thus, I grew in the womb and I was BORN a Human Being…so your argument that ONLY women go through the Birth Process is nonsense and so one-sided. The debate is not only about the woman giving birth or aborting…it is about the woman AND the Human Being in the womb being born or aborted. You seem to “selectively” leave out the Human Being that is being aborted…don't you?
Anyway, its very Discriminatory and Disingenuous to see it as JUST Gender issue, rather than a TRUE Human Rights issue, doesn't it? But thats what the Pro-Abortion side wants you to believe...
You also wrote....
To blindly say go forth and procreate makes no sense in a world of almost 7 billion people. Most of them living far below the poverty level, and many not enjying anything close to a quality of life for themselves, let alone for a baby born without a father or a safe world to come into.
OVERPOPULATION is just a MYTH that the PRO-ABORTION SIDE uses to "Justify" Abortion...The FACT is that HUMAN BEINGS only occupy 5% of the Earth's landmass...In fact, Starvation occurs when “evil”, Dictatorial Leaders keep the food AWAY from their people, as a way of “controlling” them...Heck, even the US government, PAYS farmers, NOT to grow crops, as an ENTITLEMENT ! And I don't call that "Blind".... | |
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Posted: 9/30/2006 8:38:55 PM | OVERPOPULATION is just a MYTH that the PRO-ABORTION SIDE uses to "Justify" Abortion...The FACT is that HUMAN BEINGS only occupy 5% of the Earth's landmass...In fact, Starvation occurs when “evil”, Dictatorial Leaders keep the food AWAY from their people, as a way of “controlling” them...Heck, even the US government, PAYS farmers, NOT to grow crops, as an ENTITLEMENT ! And I don't call that "Blind"....
Uhm, actually, although we only occupy 5%, a large portion of what remains is water or glacial ice - we generally do not live in those areas. Beyond that, we are destroying the areas that we do occupy almost as fast as we're breeding. We are the plage of this poor planet.
There are a gazillion articles concerned with overpopulation on the internet and also in many published journals which you can find at the library. It is definately NOT a myth.
Overpopulation is a HUGE issue in many countries,especially in China. You don't have to agree with it, but you dont' have to make up arguements in order to be correct either.
Ummm...Abortion is NOT a Gender issue, but rather, a HUMAN RIGHTS issue.
Women aren't qualified under Human Rights? Have you ever been a woman? Do you know what it is to carry a child that you know you can't care for? Have you been raped and forced to carry your attackers child and then to raise it? Human Rights is one of hte many reasons that abortion is legal.
It's only a gender issue because men are upset that they are losing control over a woman's body.
This is something that there is no right or wrong answer to. You never know a persons personal struggles or issues. It's not Christian to judge.
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 9/30/2006 9:10:09 PM | oceanpearl202...
Overpopulation is a HUGE issue in many countries,especially in China. You don't have to agree with it, but you dont' have to make up arguements in order to be correct either.
First, I believe I said LAND MASS, not ice or glaciers...and it is NOT made up...But please, let's NOT side-track the debate...keep going...
Women aren't qualified under Human Rights? Have you ever been a woman? Do you know what it is to carry a child that you know you can't care for?
WHY do PRO-ABORTION Folks support “Discrimination”, and yet "tout" Human Rights in their argument? How can ONE Human Being (the mother) have the “RIGHTS to LIVE” SUPERCEDE the “RIGHTS to LIVE” of another Human Being (the fetus)? How can this be a "defense" of HUMAN RIGHTS? I guess according to PRO-ABORTION “rhetoric”, it is RIGHT and OK to "SELECTIVELY DISCRIMINATE”!
An EXAMPLE of SELECTIVE PRO-ABORTION “rhetoric” being INCONSISTANT (and YOU brought China up, LOL) >>> …In China and India, they selectively “seek-out” and “destroy” FEMALE Fetuses via ABORTION, simply because of their GENDER! NOW, if YOU “claim” to be a supporter of Woman’s Rights and a Woman’s Right to Choose, YOU better change sides and become PRO-LIFE, to DEFEND the Developing FEMALE FETUSES in the Womb, being “slaughtered” via ABORTION!
Have you been raped and forced to carry your attackers child and then to raise it? Human Rights is one of hte many reasons that abortion is legal.
RAPE is a horrible Crime...thats for sure! And the Rapist should be Punished severly according to the Law. But did you ever "stop and think" that there may be ANOTHER way to look for a solution to a pregnancy due to rape, rather than JUST Abortion??? (And FYI...Pregnancy, let alone, an Abortion due to rape is VERY VERY Rare, but Pro-Abortion folks use this argument to give a "blanket justification" for ALL Abortions)...again, incredibly disingenuous...but expected....
With a Pregnancy due to Rape >>> Is it RIGHT, because YOU were made a "victim" yourself, that it would be OK for YOU to make another "victim"...who is “completely” INNOCENT by killing him/her via Abortion?
If someone takes an axe, and knocks down the front wall of MY house...would it be OK, for ME, to take an axe and knock down the wall of my neighbor's house (who is completely innocent), because it would make me feel better?
Sometimes, It is BETTER to SUFFER "Evil", then to INFLICT IT. (By KILLING a “defenseless & innocent” Human Being, via Abortion) Let me ask you…"WHEN is it “appropriate” to victimize someone, WHO is “COMPLETELY” innocent, because YOU were a victim yourself?"
In life, we "admire" people that CHOOSE “difficult” CHOICES, especially when they “sacrifice” themselves to do the RIGHT thing, don't we?…
Besides....Abortion does NOT "UN-RAPE" the woman!
Anyway, in order to think that ABORTION is OK or PERMISSIBLE, because of a RAPE...you would have to BEGIN with the "belief" that the People in the Womb are NOT “already” FULLY HUMAN BEINGS!
If they're not Innocent Developing Human Beings, then what are they? | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 9/30/2006 9:49:33 PM | oceanpearl202...
Because someone makes a "Judgement" or has an opinion, means that they aren't Christian??? Where do you get this from? It certainly is NOT from the Bible, unless you "twist" it to mean that...gee whiz!
So let me get this straight....To YOU, being a Christian, means we are to just Stay Silent, Shut Up and Say Nothing???....WOW! You better re-read the words of Christ in the Gospels, BEFORE you JUDGE me, dear!
I just can't picture anyone saying that to Jesus Christ..."Don't Judge"...blah blah blah...especially when he called the "religious people" of His time a "Brood of Vipers", hypocrites, and other "negative" names....because these folks DIDN'T teach the RIGHT THINGS according to God's Love, Statutes and Ways...
God gave us 2 eyes and 2 ears, but ONLY 1 mouth...This means we are to "see and hear" TWICE as much as we "speak"....some words of wisdom ;) | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 10/1/2006 8:23:39 AM | q1st... "Anyway, in order to think that ABORTION is OK or PERMISSIBLE, because of a RAPE...you would have to BEGIN with the "belief" that the People in the Womb are NOT “already” FULLY HUMAN BEINGS!"
that is your opinion, not fact. when your daughter is violently raped and ends up pregnant, then you'll know the facts about rape and the choice women make to abort. how dare you incinuate that women that have been raped then be forced to carry a child concieved during that rape to term. or better yet... maybe you ought to be raped by some unrelenting, violent, man and come back and tell us how you'd feel if the world forced you to give birth if you could. that's just as rediculous a statement as much of what you've posted on this topic.
"If they're not Innocent Developing Human Beings, then what are they?" and the answer is...
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/index.html
you'll find your answer when you go to that link, click on the very first picture in the cycle of pregnancy, and read the first paragraph that describes what you are looking at... educate yourself! | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 10/1/2006 9:46:56 AM | I for one do not believe that a the organism inside a woman is truly human until far later in the pregnancy. We can only disagree on that.
As for the world overpopulation being a myth, I suspect not. While people themselves may only take up 5% of the worlds surface, our impact and footprints are much much wider. And I am also all too aware that the U.S. government uses subsidies to crush the moral of smaller countries by eliminating their trading economies and limiting the food on the market. Err,, those wouldn't be the same U.S.government lackies who proclaim to be good Christian folk trying to save the lives of innocent unborn children, while at the same time making the world a much less hospitable place to raise these children?
I also ned to say that there are far too many abortions happeneing in North America specifically, and we need to take serious steps towards making them the last options whilst also keeping them as an option. Now this is where free access and knowledge of birth control, mandatory sexual education ( as parents are clearly not filling that role properly themselves), making the road to adoption far easier for prepared and suitable parents, and ensuring the safety of these and all children in the future too. We need to make access to quality education, hot daily lunches, safe respites from fights, bullies, and other issues available. Otherwise why bother bringing them into a world that is not prepared and welcoming of? | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 10/1/2006 9:54:06 AM | whosyourbadkitty...
that is your opinion, not fact.
I just love it when you Pro-Abortion people try to confuse the debate with the "That's just your Opinion" rant. Let me try to explain it to you, whosyourbadkitty...
“Personal Opinions” are OK...but “Opinions” MUST be based on SOMETHING...If an Opinion is to be adopted into your “Belief System”, it should be grounded and rooted in FACTS and TRUTH, not "Feelings" or Subjective Reasoning. In the Abortion Debate, Science provides us the “Facts” we need to form a sound Philosophical View. However, "Feelings" seem to get-in-the-way of the Pro-Abortion Person's reasoning and logic.
I still can't figure that one out, LOL.
When debating Abortion, you will see that Pro-Abortion People like to “confuse” an Objective claim, with a Subjective claim. They completely “ignore” the Scientific “Evidence” and “Facts”....and “replace it' with EMOTIONAL OPINIONS and RHETORIC. And instead of “Challenging” the Evidence put forth (Objectively) …. Pro-Abortion people just “Dismiss” the Evidence as an “Opinion” (Subjectively)…and thus “confuse” Objective Reasoning with Subjective Reasoning.
Here’s a “classic” example of how Pro-abortion people “argue” this way to “confuse” the Abortion Issue…(Objective verses Subjective)
When a SCIENTIFIC FACT is “put forth” or “posted” such as “The People in the Womb are “individual” Human Beings, from the “Point of Conception”… The Pro-Abortion Person will “dismiss” THAT FACT or EVIDENCE and say “Well…That’s JUST your OPINION !”
And it gets even MORE Bizzare when they "confuse" a Preference Claim with a Moral Claim...
I’m continually amazed when these Pro-Abortion People say “Don’t like Abortion? Then don’t have one”! To them it’s like saying “Don’t like Broccoli? Then don’t eat it”! They confuse a “PREFERENCE” Claim with a “MORAL” Claim in the abortion debate, and they believe this is "Debatable Reasoning or Logic". What it REALLY is, is a disingenuous tactic to "confuse" the Abortion Debate. Pro-Abortion People use this tactic ALL the Time! Nothing NEW here, but people are "slowly, but surely" are becoming Educated to the TRUTH.
Anyway you look at it, it's always the same ole agrument put forth by Pro-Abortion People. Nothing NEW here. And if you apply your "misguided and misinformed" views to an "infant" or a person "outside" the womb, like you do to the person "inside" the Womb...........then your INSANITY and nonsense is exposed for what it is!
when your daughter is violently raped and ends up pregnant, then you'll know the facts about rape and the choice women make to abort. how dare you incinuate that women that have been raped then be forced to carry a child concieved during that rape to term. or better yet... maybe you ought to be raped by some unrelenting, violent, man and come back and tell us how you'd feel if the world forced you to give birth if you could. that's just as rediculous a statement as much of what you've posted on this topic.
Tell me, whosyourbadkitty...I have a "back-to-back" question for you. HOW MANY ABORTIONS ARE BECAUSE OF A PREGNANCY DUE TO A RAPE?....AND HOW MANY ARE JUST FOR CONVENIENCE? Or are you just going to "Ignore" that statistic too to DEFEND killing someone for what someone else did?
I could stand there and also say... "How dare YOU to "execute" someone, for someone elses CRIME." Perhaps YOU should find out and be on "Death Row" for a CRIME you didn't do. But of course, you Pro-abortion folks will just bring out the "awareness" factor. In other words, its OK to KILL them, as long as the Person is "unaware" to what is happening to them. Such a Sick and CHEAPENED view of Human Life.
WOW!
"If they're not Innocent Developing Human Beings, then what are they?" and the answer is...
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/index.html
you'll find your answer when you go to that link, click on the very first picture in the cycle of pregnancy, and read the first paragraph that describes what you are looking at... educate yourself!
whosyourbadkitty...I have a better link for you.
http://www.abortionno.com/
You will ACTUALLY "see" an abortion. WORDS may Lie, but PICTURES don't. | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 10/1/2006 10:08:45 PM | Fact....an ovum can't not survive outside a uterus. This does not make it a life.
I would like to point out that the term is PRO CHOICE .... this in FACT means that we believe women are best suited to make the choice based on their life circumstance and should be supported in whatever her choice is...This is not the choice of a bunch of people who don't know her or anything about her. So being PRO CHOICE it means that a woman has three choices. To abort, to carry to term for adoption, or to carry to term to parent. With her choice I will support her to have all those options available to her without judgement. So let's remember if she chooses to abort...it should be safe and not life threatening, if she chooses adoption then there should be people willing to take the child and keep it safe and social supports in place to ensure adequate resources to raise the child, and if she chooses parenting....then we must consider social supports for her such as childcare and adequate wages and housing.....because this is what PRO CHOICE really means!!!
So get your FACTS straight!
ssass
This is her body, her choice...bottom line! | |
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Posted: 10/2/2006 1:23:57 PM | "I will choose what enters me... what becomes flesh of my flesh.
Without choice, no politics, no ethics lives.
I am not your cornfield, not your uranium mine, not your calf for fattening, not your cow for milking. You may not use me as your factory.
Priests and legislators do not hold shares in my womb or my mind.
This is my body. If I give it to you, I want it back.
My life is a non-negotiable demand."
Marge Piercy - Right to Life | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 10/2/2006 2:07:28 PM | sassysmartass wrote...
Fact....an ovum can't not survive outside a uterus. This does not make it a life.
If old sick granny cannot survive without her ventilator, is she not a life?
If you walk to the bottom of a pool and stay there you cannot survive. Are you not a life?
If you leave the atmospehre, you cannot survive. Are you not a life?
An ovum is life that requires a specific enviornment to survive j~ust like we do~. It's developed from living cells of two individual beings...the chain of living never ceases.
I would like to point out that the term is PRO CHOICE .... this in FACT means that we believe women are best suited to make the choice based on their life circumstance and should be supported in whatever her choice is...This is not the choice of a bunch of people who don't know her or anything about her. So being PRO CHOICE it means that a woman has three choices. To abort, to carry to term for adoption, or to carry to term to parent. With her choice I will support her to have all those options available to her without judgement. So let's remember if she chooses to abort...it should be safe and not life threatening, if she chooses adoption then there should be people willing to take the child and keep it safe and social supports in place to ensure adequate resources to raise the child, and if she chooses parenting....then we must consider social supports for her such as childcare and adequate wages and housing.....because this is what PRO CHOICE really means!!!
Nice, just leave out the most important choice and pat yourself on the back...
...the main choice...the biggest choice...
...the choice of personal responsibilty.
...the responsibilty of not being responsible enough to make a life that you need to destroy for social, economic, or convenience reasons. | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 10/2/2006 2:15:13 PM |
I for one do not believe that a the organism inside a woman is truly human until far later in the pregnancy. We can only disagree on that.
Wow, that a pretty power point to be so casual about. Disagree, heck yeah!
My believes were the same but experience and knowledge turned me around.
I work in healthcare. I see parents gusing with emotion over that little being fostered in mom's uterus. I see the premies at 22 weeks gestation born early fighting for their lives.
These are not balls of flesh,. They're US! ...small early versions of us.
These lives generally only die from failure to thrive, disease, accidents , old age...
or we abort them in utero.
Believe me, I aint a saint here. I aint even religious. | |
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Posted: 10/2/2006 2:29:36 PM | | I think this isa philosphical issue rather than a scientific one. What I find truly fascinating is those, particularily on the Christian right who scream that it is a sin and immoral to take the life of a fetus...yet scream in righteous triumph when we carpet bomb fully actualized human beings. | |
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Posted: 10/2/2006 3:06:33 PM | interdimensional...
I think this isa philosphical issue rather than a scientific one. What I find truly fascinating is those, particularily on the Christian right who scream that it is a sin and immoral to take the life of a fetus...yet scream in righteous triumph when we carpet bomb fully actualized human beings.
Yeah and human beings bomb us...the circle of death. 
But calling abortion philisophical is distractionary from science which is fact.
You can use philosophy to support any agenda or purpose. It clouds true debate.
I'm not at all religious. I'm all for support of the innocent fetus. But "I will" condone torture and death to child molesters. I mean that's monsterous. They don't deserve to like in a 4x4 room with free meals. | |
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Posted: 10/2/2006 3:21:27 PM | | ^^^^^ Science cannot answer the true question surrounding this. This is a question of what constitutes a human being and that is a philosphical question and not a scientific one. And in general science is still out in left field when it comes to realizing that other animals are fully actulaized and conscious. But this is getting off topic. I am all for science...but do not think that it is all "fact" at any given time...any scientist can tell you this...the so called "facts" change. | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 10/2/2006 3:37:48 PM |
Science cannot answer the true question surrounding this. This is a question of what constitutes a human being and that is a philosphical question and not a scientific one. And in general science is still out in left field when it comes to realizing that other animals are fully actulaized and conscious. But this is getting off topic. I am all for science...but do not think that it is all "fact" at any given time...any scientist can tell you this...the so called "facts" change.
So now conscious is the point? So do we automatically abort the brain damaged?
Science is quite clear and getting clearer. It's emotional acceptance that has varying degrees.
Do you realize that science actually thought babies in utero didn't feel pain. Today they realize they do indeed react to pain.
Not aborting is EASY.
Aborting is the act that tends to need to draw and deliniate lines of appropriateness. | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 10/2/2006 3:44:21 PM | Do you realize that science actually thought babies in utero didn't feel pain. Today they realize they do indeed react to pain.
^^^^^^ That is my point....and in a few years they will discover something else and the so called facts will change once again. That is all I am trying to say. | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 10/2/2006 4:09:13 PM |
That is my point....and in a few years they will discover something else and the so called facts will change once again. That is all I am trying to say.
Dude, the trend of scientic discovery is moving more and more to HUMAN LIFE BEING FORMED at time of CONCEPTION.
You need to watch PBS! | |
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| Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 10/2/2006 5:33:54 PM | sassysmartass...
Fact....an ovum can't not survive outside a uterus. This does not make it a life.
sassy....Perhaps you need a lesson in basic biology and what happens when a woman becomes pregnant. Sperm and Ovum, LEFT TO THEMSELVES, will DIE....They DO NOT possess the “Inherent Capacity” to be a HUMAN BEING. Only when they “undergo” the CONCEPTION or FERTILIZATION Process, do they become “INDIVIDUAL” Human Beings and Human LIFE “begins” to DEVELOP.
“Inherent Capacity” means that NOTHING MORE WILL BE ADDED to that “ENTITY” to MAKE it a HUMAN BEING!…It has EVERYTHING “programmed” within it, FROM THE BEGINNING !!! (Conception).
Your Skin “cells” that fall from your arm contain Human Genetic Material. However, that DOES NOT mean that your skin cells have the “Inherent Capacity” to BE a FETUS, an INFANT, a TODDLER, an ADOLESCENT, or an ADULT. In other words, the Skin Cells that fall from your arm, DO NOT POSSESS the “Inherent Capacity” to BE "anything" other than what they are. Skin Cells! The “conceived” Zygote DOES !
The zygote, embryo, fetus are all “stages” of development of a Human Being…same as infant, baby, toddler…We are INDIVIDUAL Human Beings from CONCEPTION. We didn’t “COME FROM” a Zygote....We “ONCE WERE” a Zygote.....We didn’t “EVOLVE” from a Fetus...We “ONCE WERE” a Fetus...
Thus, the zygote, embryo, fetus, infant, baby, toddler, adolescent, adult, senior adult are ALL “Stages-of-Development” of HUMAN BEINGS, that deserve protection by LAW.
I would like to point out that the term is PRO CHOICE .... this in FACT means that we believe women are best suited to make the choice based on their life circumstance and should be supported in whatever her choice is...This is not the choice of a bunch of people who don't know her or anything about her. So being PRO CHOICE it means that a woman has three choices. To abort, to carry to term for adoption, or to carry to term to parent. With her choice I will support her to have all those options available to her without judgement. So let's remember if she chooses to abort...it should be safe and not life threatening, if she chooses adoption then there should be people willing to take the child and keep it safe and social supports in place to ensure adequate resources to raise the child, and if she chooses parenting....then we must consider social supports for her such as childcare and adequate wages and housing.....because this is what PRO CHOICE really means!!!
sassy....
I'm Pro-Choice for the woman. She can CHOOSE not to conceive. If she gets pregnant against her CHOICE, she can CHOOSE to carry the child to term and then keep her baby. Or she can CHOOSE to give the child up for adoption so he/she will be loved and cared for. But she can't CHOOSE the quick way out of a difficult problem by taking the LIFE of that little baby. That’s NOT Pro-Choice…that’s Pro-Abortion!
In order to think that Abortion is OK or PERMISSIBLE, because of a CHOICE..., you would have to BEGIN with the "belief" that the People in the Womb are NOT “already” FULLY Innocent and Defenseless Developing HUMAN BEINGS!
And if they are NOT Developing Human Beings....then WHAT are they??? Scientifically? | |
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