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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 4:38:53 PM | Playing hard to get, by it's very term is nothing but a game.
I thought it was cute back in grade school but not at my age.
Once you've been through it enough times you get bored of the process.
Dating is not a game of chess.
Chess is easier. It's black and white, win or lose.
You take things at face value when you first meet someone, but the longer you know them the more you learn about them.
You cannot possibly find out everything you want/need to know about them from your first few dates. It takes an investment of time and patience.
Games are for the birds.
JMHO | |
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| Men.. Do you have to chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 4:45:57 PM | I would prefer things to be clearer, like they were in previous times, when men approached women. It was easier to know whose role was what.
Since the so-called sexual revolution, women are supposed to be allowed to pursue men.
I can say from personal experience that men don't really like being pursued by women, at least, not for relationship purposes. For cheap, meaningless, [intimate encounters] sure, but not for relationships.
And no, I have never stalked anyone.
But our world has become such that if a fellow does pursue a woman it can be considered stalking, so men [I think] are reluctant to chase as much. Then again, maybe we need more courting and less chasing; perhaps the latter comes across as desparate.
I once read a really cool article in a paper about how a man courted the woman he was interested in for many months, maybe close to a year, and over time won her over. In time, they were married.
I am aware that life is not a fairy tale, but I do think that it would be cool if there was more courting and less chasing, if you get my meaning.
e. | |
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| Men.. Do you have to chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 4:53:27 PM |
I would prefer things to be clearer, like they were in previous times, when men approached women. It was easier to know whose role was what.
I agree, sighhhhhhh.......... Long gone are those Humphrey Bogart days or the John Cusack's in Say Anything.....
If we could just find a way to turn back the time to when we were 16 but being the same age we are now?  | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 5:19:12 PM | Tessie... you have a point that "hard to get" does not necesarily mean showing absolutely zero interest. And sometimes it's "just" teasing the men (as if that's somehow an acceptable alternative), and giving them just a little. Just enough to keep them dancing on the hook.
Well fine, in that case, just tweak my initial analogy slightly. We go to the newsstand for the M&Ms, and they HAVE them! One bag left! The one we want! But good old Apu behind the counter has it on the end of a stick, and keeps waving it around over our head, just out of reach, and laughing at us all the while, thinking: "Oh good, this will make him want it more! Tee hee!" Like we're some pack animal, being led around with a carrot on a pole. Or like a kid who gets ahold of one of those damn trick dollars on a string, and stands on the corner taunting people with it all day, until Joe WrongTarget comes along, gets fished in by it, and just beats the crap out of the kid.
Well here's where that leads, with the candy store... we make maybe two grabs, tops, at the M&Ms on the stick, and then we get pissed off and annoyed and frustrated. Hell, wouldn't you? If some lunatic is waving candy that you want over your head, ladies, making a fool out of you, how many times do you jump up and down, grabbing at the thing, (jumping through hoops, essentially), before you get fed up with it? This guy's not going to give me that candy, even though I sincerely and thoughtfully told him that I liked it, and wanted to get to know it better, and all that. This guy's just an ass. Just using me to play games.
So at that point, we look at this nutjob, and realize that he's just getting a perverse sort of glee out of playing a mind game on us, and screwing with our heads. He is a TEASE, and that candy is just too damn HARD TO GET. And getting it (or hopelessly attempting to, actually), is only making us look like a fool, that he can tell all his friends about later. So what do we say?
Come on, you know this one...
SCREW IT.
And screw this guy.
But wait... we don't even buy Skittles off this jerk. We don't buy ANYthing from his store at all now! We just leave. And NOW is when we are forced to go elsewhere. Why? Not because we like hunting around for other options, but because our pride, and our dignity, has forced us to.
So what does this story teach us? That teasing a man and stringing him along is actually WORSE than showing zero interest, and doing nothing. At least you haven't completely wasted our time, and made us act the fool for your amusement. Now OK, maybe that is not your intention (most of you), and you're not being purposefully sadistic about it (most of you), but hell, that is how we see it. How would you see it if it was done to you? The same way. Trust me.
Here's an absolutely true story (in case you don't like my analogies). This happened to me when I was 5 years old or so.
When I was five, my parents got me a puppy. A Shetland Sheepdog (Sheltie), named Princess. She lived until I was 17, and over those 12 years, she became truly like my sister. I'm an only child, and we really did grow up together. Anyway, that's besides the point. When I was five, and had just first got her, we hadn't yet built up the trust or the bond between us, and I had no idea how to treat a dog. I NEVER mistreated her, ot hurt her, but hell, I was a stupid kid, so I (once) tried the following stupid thing that kids do...
I had one of her Milk Bone dog biscuits, to give to her. Well, being a five year old, I figured, let's see if I can play a game with her, and see if she'll catch on. So I held it out to her. She went to take it, and I pulled it away. A quizzical expression came over her face. I held it out again. Suspecting nothing at this point, she again attempted to take it from me. I pulled it away again. It was a fun game! This happened about about 4 times. On the fifth (or so) attempt, after pulling it away from her every time, do you know what she did?
She bit me. I swear to god. She didn't attack me. She just growled, and snapped at my hand. Got me good, too. That was her way of saying "Stop screwing with me, jerk! I'm hungry!" I dropped the cookie, started crying, and she calmly and happily ate her cookie. And I never teased her again.
That is a completely true story. So you see, I learned about all this 22 years ago. From a dog! But yet so many grown up, intelligent adult women have still not gotten this message! Even after having the message sent to them over and over from fellow human beings! The men they did it to, who just gave up, lost interest, and left! Yes, they didn't bite you, (well, maybe they did. How would I know? There's some kinky crap out there), but the message should have been clear enough, even without the biting.
Bottom line, ladies... you are operating under many MASSIVE misconceptions. But here is the WORST one, that encompasses all the others that I have already addressed... And I will highlight my main points, so they stand out...
You think you are "playing" hard to get.
Like it's a game or something. Even though you all say you want "no games". But please believe me on this... you're not "playing" hard to get.
No... You simply ARE hard to get.
There is no such thing as "playing" here. We see it as "She's hard to get". That's it. We do not see it a "game", or "playing". We don't think "Aw, that's cute. I like games. Games are fun! Yay!" We just see it as leading us on, toying with us, messing with us, making fools of us, etc.
And to sum it all up... if you think you are "playing" a "game" with another individual, but he/she doesn't think that, or maybe even suspects that that is what you're doing, but just doesn't have the time, or the inclination, to waste on your nonsense... then it is NOT a game. Princess taught me that 22 years ago. I thought it was a little game I was playing with her. She didn't see it that way. So therefore, it turned out that it wasn't a game, as I had first thoiught.
Just like it takes two to tango, it takes two to play any game. That's what a game is. Two people playing it. Unless it's solitaire. But if you wanted to play solitaire, you'd just stay at home with your vibrators, and you wouldn't be here. You wouldn't be in the "dating market".
You think you're "playing" hard to get.
We see it as "you just are".
I sincerely hope that helps, ladies. Because if it helps you, then it helps me and all my "homeboys" as well.
-- Will | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 5:28:11 PM |
"Will that was sooo well written!
I enjoyed it immensely.
You have a gift.
It's honesty.
In my opinion, you've hit the nail square on the head."
nice2cu,
Thank you very much, man. Sincerely. I really appreciate the compllment.
Cheers. 
-- Will | |
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| Men.. Do you have to chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 5:36:39 PM | Wow.
What a great thread - thanks to the OP for asking that question !!
Big Kudos to Will for his great addition too.
(Minor disagreement though Will - I am not an active Oprah fan, but
AFAIK she is all about love being obvious and women being proactive...)
Speaking for myself only:
Open communication is BEST, always, in everything - and especially
when folks are new to one another.
And on time travel vs. meeting/dating:
We cannot turn the clock back to the past - NOW is when we live.
When it was normal to court, and court, and court and court was a
LONG time ago - pre-internet, pre cellular phones, pre microwave oven !
If we all lived in small towns and lived on farms dreaming about the
girl/guy next door -> why shucks Martha, it'd be just swell if y'all would
meet me at the malt shop - would ye ?
Now it's: Messaging 8 people at once via IM while playing a game AND
having a conference call on the cellular dingus - all at once !!!
Times have changed - and it is wrong to live by Grandma's rules from
1902 about 'courtship' - mind you Grandma was my favorite person in
the whole wide world - but she was born before automobiles - just like
young folks today cannot imagine having no PC and no internet and no
videogames and no microwave.....OMG How did folks live like that ?
Ladies, in all respect - smile at that guy, tell him your name - a
handshake is safe enough (usually), chat with him a while, and if he
still doesn't get it - ask him to call you !
If he says no - hold your head high as you gracefully depart - it's his loss.
Any other guy nearby that happens to see/hear that will, I promise
(unless he is a priest), think to himself: 'Wow, what a woman she is !'
Best Wishes,
mark* | |
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| Men.. Do you have to chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 6:10:16 PM | Mr Scorpio I must admit well thought out points. Good stuff man and I feel your frustration.
I guess the problem is that the scales are tipping so far over to the other end that now some women see this new movement in "letting the man chase you" into "making the man work endlessly for you and give him nothing in return" And by this I don't mean sexually, I don't think sex should be bargained in dating but I do think it needs to be shared when it feels right. I think some men are quick to think that women hold out to toy with them, to use them, to lead them on. So from our stand point, the women who don't toy men around, yes we may be hard to get in the respect that we may not always be available or have our own plans on any given night, but we like to take our time to get to know men, it is very hard to know where we also fit in.
Women are pegged shallow and too picky, all misconceptions of course, while some may be selective in what they don't want and what they want they also do not want to rush into anything. So some men seem to lose interest after the 5th date if they do not put out. What is that? Granted it could be that maybe they lose interest period. But the more I read these types of comments from men then more I feel like there is this reversal of game playing that is going on here from the men's part. Like men feel like they need to one up us, and because they think all us women are the same and just out to use them they refuse to see that some of us just wanna take our time to get to know a man before we rush into sex. And getting sex from a woman is not the end all be all way to know she is interested. Being with you and being excited to hear from you and calling you are all signs that she is INTO you. Also all the physical signs body language of when you are together and of course the words. So why are you all so lost and still misreading all the interest that is out there so loud and clear. It appears to me it is less about you not seeing the signs and more about you men just having ONE track mind SEX or nothing.
Guys go all out and treat us to all these great dates and then it's almost like they get frustrated in themselves for spending so much and not gettin laid in return.
Gees if you want whores there are plenty out there and you won't have to waste weeks getting to know these women and I'm sure it'll cost you a lot less in the long run
We just see it as leading us on, toying with us, messing with us, making fools of us, etc.
please define teasing, toying, leading you on. Not being facetious I really wanna know what this means to you because to me I see it as woman who won't put out. | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 6:18:49 PM | I read that book, and for several months afterward I took its advice and spent every single Friday and Saturday night dateless.
Hmmmm....
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 6:39:57 PM | A woman who feels she NEVER has to chase better be the best looking woman whenever she goes out to meet men. Otherwise, that's just a foolish behavior. I'm not saying to go out and offer guys sex and BJs. Just be subtle with your approach. A woman who comes on to me too strong too early, it's a turnoff. Now let's say I go out and see two women I'd like to talk to: one who knows how to subtly approach a guy, and one who always let's the guy chase her. Let's say both ladies have equal interest in me, both are equally physically attractive, and I have equal interest in each of them. 100% of the time I will want to engage conversation with the one who understands the subtle approach.
Lots of women feel they are "equals" and still expect relationship "entitlements" like playing hard-to-get, having guys always chase her, etc. If she's good looking enough or can find enough suckers, she'll get her dates. Put her in an environment with intelligent women who know how to communicate with men, she turns into a super bitch and becomes a dating loser, not a winner.
To answer the OP's question, I don't play the "chase" game. When I meet a woman who portrays this behavior, most of the time it's a dealbreaker, it shows lack of maturity and communication skills. | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 6:41:04 PM | | Yes I read that book too. An easy, entertaining read. I did feel empowered after I read it, but I truly don't think that someone is going to come along and sweep me off of my feet. This is reality here. I don't want to be swept off of my feet this aint no fairytale but I do want to find someone that Is that into me!!!! | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 6:45:53 PM | Angelab - great response !!
I read that book, and for several months afterward I took its advice and spent every single Friday and Saturday night dateless.
Hmmmm....
So - most men say something like: PLEASE, just go for it !
And some women object - even to the point of trying to validate
the book previously mentioned while invalidating the very men
that have replied enthusiastically and clearly.
This could have some relation to the concept of a self-fulfilling
prophecy for ardent adherents of the philosophy in that book...
Hooray for ~prizm~ and Pinkbutterfly too !!
Best Wishes,
mark | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 6:46:56 PM | | I don't chase any woman... I would think that theywould think I am stalking them... So, I mail then mabye never again, or I will a few days later or even longer... | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 6:49:06 PM | The best is when you kinda take turns chasing each other in the beginning. He makes a move, she makes a move back, etc etc.
Not talking in one night or sex but the trail from "my name is bob" to "you know, I think I am in love with you". | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 6:50:27 PM | First and foremost Will great job!!!!
Second just a question. Women why go buy a book that most men will never read or even know exists? Then live by it?
As for me put up a billboard and smack me in the head as by this point I don't even know what women want anymore.
I mean I don't mind chasing a woman but only to some degree as I too lose interest quickly if played with.
To all of those women that listen to what society or someone else has to tell you, well I guess you will still look down at my shoes and move on when you don't like what you see. Who made up these ridiculous rules anyway?
I'll just go get skittles they are much easier to find and almost as rewarding and when the lady next to me asks for some I'll probably end up enjoying her company.
So yes take the chance men have for years. | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 6:51:56 PM | Does it really matter who's the hunter and who's the hunted? In the end, you're going to sit down to dinner together. Personally, it doesn't offend me to be approached. In fact, I have more respect for the woman who'll take the initiatine and shake this wolf from his den. With stalking laws being the way they are, a lot of guys are scared shytless to do the approach thing any more. I'm one of them. It's too easy to go to jail for paying a lady some unwanted attention - and all they have to feel is a bit threatened.
Steve | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 6:56:12 PM |
Women why go buy a book that most men will never read or even know exists? Then live by it?
well I think that is the point Triple, to read a book that is considered the inside scoop on how to handle men, without them knowing too much about it, hence your "men will never read" comment. It's like all that crap put out like the book of rules or even the David D'Angelo E-guide to dating for guys, or the latest for guys is called.....ahhhh.....sorry can't remember.... but it is also like the garbage David D'Angelo puts out. Neither is good taken literally it just aids in allienating the genders even further, sadly. | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 6:56:39 PM | Will ur a riot, you should write a book urself! The book from what i have read so far is amusing for a pointless read, but most of it is common sense...But I disagreed with the making the move on the guy as u can tell lol..... I also think females over analize things to much with men.. like it's chess as somone used a refrence to it NOT being..,. it's a major fault on our parts.. I like this thread cause there are huge differences between the sex's and its nice to hear how each veiw it. Males are pretty simple when it comes to that stuff thankfully but they realize females arent which is their gain But.. I find when helping females with situations alot of the time they don't seem to realize men arent that complicated and they think they are analizing all their moves like a chess game as well which is their loss... :S just my opinion
As for who said make a move she makes one back.. I AGREE .. I said in this debate that there is nothing wrong with meeting in the middle! | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:06:26 PM | | I dunno I only read a quarter of the book, it was all stupid write in questions ... . Maybe I will read the rest tonight for kicks haha | |
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