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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:12:01 PM | FilmScorpio pretty much explained it how I see things.
I know I already posted, but forget what I said and just refer to his two mammoth posts.  | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:15:34 PM | | well I do think the book is good for those females who are clueless... females have a hard time of admit that he is just not that into you... so for that it does some people wonders..Thirty dollars for common sense i'm not so sure of but hey | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:17:26 PM | Toss the book in the same box with that one 'The Rules' and forget about it.
As I say - as many say on these sites - not into games - and the cat and mouse game is the oldest one going.
Any book that claims that there are a set of rules - one size fits all - full of it - if life were only that simple. I much prefer a woman to be straight up - I don't have the time nor the inclination to figure out what a womans interest level is - "is she really not interested or is she pretending she's not interested because she is really very interested?" Life's too short.
And why not go after what you want? I had a long term relationship with a woman who - at first - I wasn't that interested in - she persisted - my interest grew - we fell in love and spent a few wonderful years together - we're still very good friends and both of us are very happy that we had spent that part of our lives together - I she had read that book - never would have happened I imagine. | |
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mako28
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Joined: 2/23/2006
Msg: 56 | |
| Men.. Do you have to chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:19:30 PM | When I express my opinion people often misread it. I'll give it a shot again.
I am one of those guys that appreciate the chase. I consider it an iatrical part of developing a relationship. It is the misconception that to chase means to play a game or to lie that most people go off on. Without the "chase" there is no feeling of earning or creation. It is easy to compare it to economics...what is given for free will very often hold little value.
Each and every one of us has our own value system. For me, I like chivalry therefore I like a woman who expects to be treated in a certain manner. I like class. I like confident women. I like these traits because when I interact with them, it makes me feel good about myself. (Remember, we are always acting on behalf of our self interest) Any woman who "gives in" and does not expect this interaction will bore me. The chase isn't about playing hard to get, more so it is playing "do you have the right to get me". When you circumvent this chase, you remove the confidence in the relationship. You are easily had...this hits my confidence in either my partner or myself.
I think people want to avoid the chase because they are lazy. An instant gratification thing. We want lasting relationships, but are not willing to earn them. We don't like chasing because we feel its manipulation or a falsehood. Yet, who of us hasn't enjoyed the feeling we get when we see someone is expressing effort on our behalf?
To make a man chase you isn't so much as making him prove himself to you by jumping through hoops, more so you are letting him prove his own value to himself. This is the subtle difference. Find his character...give him the signs that are appropriate, then let him "prove" his own value to himself. In other words, make him feel desired. | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:20:02 PM | | Hey thanks thats good to hear... I was told to ask married men who pursued who and that if it was a happy marriage chances are it was him to her.. it's nice that u helped prove a point that good relationships can come from that lol I'm happy ha | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:24:11 PM | | maco I understand where u are coming from.. different strokes for different folkes.. I personaly don't need a guy to jump threw hoops... I think we all liked to be "woo'd " a bit. Not neccesarly chased. I mean I don't want a guy that puts no effort into me what's so ever. I find it to be the little things that stick out more then the big romantic gestures. I for one would def not change who I am though for what is expected of me. If I want to be the one who makes some of those gestures and courtships I'm gonna... | |
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| Men.. Do you have to chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:25:25 PM | sexyandbrainy...
OK I was afraid that someone would read my posts misinterpret them, and think I was talking about sex. I knew this might happen. I hoped it wouldn't, and I hoped I was expressing what I meant clearly, without any hint of referring to sex, but hey, we all read things in different ways, and that's cool. I'm not getting on your case about it, and I'll try to explain specifically what I meant.
The "candy", for example. In hindsight, and in looking over my posts, I can see how one could think it was a euphemism for sex. I assure you it was absolutely NOT. (Not yelling at you there, with the caps. lol. I just really want to stress that as strongly as I possibly can.). I had no thoughts of sex at all when I wrote my posts. What the candy represents is interest. Plain, simple, old fashioned, showing of interest. I can see how the allegory of the salesman not giving up the candy, and waving it around in front of us could VERY easily be read as a woman not giving up the... let's say "goods", for lack of a more offensive word, and waving it around in front of a man. it was entirely my fault for choosing the imagery that I did, and I do apologize for the confusion I caused. It's hitting me in the face now, and I'm thinking: "Why the hell didn't I think of that, or realize it, when I wrote it?". But please believe me, you are confused about this. My fault, yes. Which I will now clear up.
As I said, my intentions were the farthest thing from sex-oriented. I'm not an idiot, or a jerk, and I have better sense, and more respect for women, than to ever suggest (here or anywhere else) that a woman should give up the goods to keep a man interested. That, obviously, is sick, and sexist. Besides, I came in here to try to help out, and give the ladies some serious male advice about this issue. Not to cause trouble, nor to offend anyone, nor to imply or insinuate anything lecherous. What purpose would that serve? I'd be flamed out of the thread, branded as an ass (which I would have been), and then all men would have become jerks and asses by association. Why would I want to do a disservice to anyone here? Particularly myself, and my fellow men?
Like I said, the "candy" represented simple interest. A prompt phone call back. A speedy and enthusiastic reply to our email. A look in the eyes, a touch of the hand. Or hell... if all that is still too cryptic to some people... the plain and simple words exchanged between two people. Just a guy and a girl saying to each other:
"I really like you."
"I really like you, too."
Where the hell is that? The guys say it! Oh yes we do! We have to! We're the designated first-move-makers, by law, right? So we say it to you. But you can never say it back, and just be honest with us, and with yourselves, about how you feel.
By teasing, and leading us on, I simply meant giving us just enough INTEREST to get us to chase you. Chase you for a relationship. Waiting just long enough before calling him. Not wanting to "come off as to interested". That nonchalant, disinterested tone in a three line email that she rush-sent you before leaving work, that makes a guy agonize for days about whether she's interested or doesn't give half a damn. And the worst one of all... when a guy says to her on Tuesday: "I'd love to take you out to dinner on Saturday night, if you're free", and the girl knows damn well she's free. Has no plans! And she KNOWS she likes the guy, and WANTS to go out with him, but what does she say? "I'll have to check and see if I'm free. I'll get back to you". Or even worse: "Well, I'm free as of now, but I don't know if something might come up before then, so I'll have to get back to you". And in either case, they finally call back on Friday afternoon. WWWWWWHHHHHHHYYYYYY do they do that??? if you are free now, and I just asked you out, then guess what? THIS is something coming up. You can accept! What the hell stops women from just immediately answering: "Why yes, I would love to go out with you. That sounds great. See you then." ?????????????
That's what I mean by leading a guy on. Trying to keep him on the hook as long as possible. Not teasing and dangling sex in front of us, but far far worse, and more hurtful. Teasing and dangling EMOTIONS in front of us. INTEREST.
Look at my profile. I am looking for "long term". Not "one night fling". I (and most men, truthfully) want to really date someone, and take the time to get to know, and get to love, every little thing about her. To build a relationship. I'm in no rush for sex, when "pursuing" a girl. I'm pursuing, and seeking, and hoping to work toward the goal of the relationship. The EMOTIONS. The steady dating, and the whole boyfriend/girlfriend holding hands and cuddling in a cafe thing. I am in NO rush for sex. The closest I come to that is wanting the kiss. I have to cop to that. That first kiss is always the greatest moment. And I can't wait until the relationship gets to the point of kissing. But even that, I don't ever rush. And I certainly NEVER "expect" it as some "bargaining chip", or "something in return". But as for sexsexsex on the brain from day one... that's NOT me.
Quite the contrary, actually. I do not want sex early in the relationship. It is a BAD warning sign. If I have any fault, or ANY negative view towards any women, that I must admit to, it is this... A woman who is willing to have sex with me too early, (and don't ask what too early is. It's different in every case. Let's say the first month, for a generalization)... anyway, a woman who is willing to have sex with me too early, or even worse: wants it right away and is the one to suggest it... I can not respect that woman. Let me ammend that. I can respect her as a person; as I would any human being. But I can not respect that about her. And I can't trust it. Look, you may see it as a stereotype, but it's a conversation for a completely different thread, and I'm not going to argue the point with anyone here. Essentially, to me, it is a very clear and logical progression of facts, leading to an obvious conclusion. If a girl wants to have sex with me on the first date, then that is the "kind of girl" that she is. There are words for that, but I'm not going to use them here.
Look, I would love to believe that I am the most absolutely irresistable sex-object man walking the earth, and she's only wanting sex because it's ME, and she'd never do it with other guys... just with Will, because he's the sexiest man she's ever met. I would love to believe that. But that crap ain't the truth. Far from it. The fact is, this is the type of girl she is. She's banging me on the first date, so logic dictates that she's banged all her other first dates. I'm sorry that I can't be delicate about this, but frankly, she is easy. Or loose. Or to use a nice sanitized clinical term... sex crazed nymphomaniac. And I do NOT want that. No relationship can EVER develop with that woman, because I could never trust her, or the situation, or her raging impulses, or whatever you want to call it. Look, my experiences, and the experiences of every guy I know have taught us this: Easy and loose = Cheater. Big time high-risk cheating risk. If there were a Cheating Insurance Company, the premiums on this gal would be through the roof. That is the logical conclusion, and that is why I don't want sex on the first date, or the first few dates, or even the first few weeks, or too soon at all.
Now before you ask... because I know you will... just because I would never seek sex too soon... yes. I would accept the sex. I would have sex with her on the first date, if she jumped on me and said "let's have sex now!" What am I, nuts? No man will turn down free sex. It's like: "Here's some free money." "Oh, no thanks, I don't want it. I don't like money." Who'd say that? So yes, I would have sex with her, enjoy it, and make a mental note that she is certainly not dating/romance/relationship/long-term/commitment material, and I probably wouldn't talk to her again after that. Now does that action turn ME into the villain? Or a jerk, or a cad? That's up to you. Whatever you want to think. I'm just being honest and forthright with you here.
Back to the point... sorry, I have a thing about tangents, and going off on them...
The posts, and points, that I made had NOTHING to do with sex. The candy, and the teasing, and the toying to which I referred was this...
"Being with you and being excited to hear from you and calling you are all signs that she is INTO you. Also all the physical signs body language of when you are together and of course the words."
All the truly wonderful and special things that you yourself listed in you post, which I quoted. The misconception that you are under is that all those things are right there, readily on the surface, and being blatantly given. You make it sound like all of that IS given to guys, but they disregard it because they just want sexsexsex. I'm sorry, but that is flat out wrong. Maybe some guys are like that. I'm sure. But not the majority. And hey, if what you posted is true for you, and you shoot straight with a guy when interested, and you DO make it clear to him... then kudos to you. I wish all women were like you, if that's true. But the fact is that the VAST majority of women do not show those things. They don't "give up" any of that. No more than the smallest necessary inclination or clue of mutual interest. THAT's what they tease us with, and THAT's what they won't "give up". Not sex, damn it. To HELL with sex. Forget sex!
We feel like fools waiting by a phone, checking our emails, and trying to get one single damn straight answer to a date invitation out of you. And god forbid WE call YOU again, betweem that hypothetical Tuesday and Saturday I mentioned earlier. Oh no... if we call you again, before you decide to "get back to us", then we're creepy, or needy, or stalkers or some such garbage. All we want (the majority of men) is just a simple "Hey, I'm interested in you too. Let's go out, and see where it leads". That's how we are "toyed with". Not because we aren't getting laid. That is an extremely provincial, narrow, and oversimplified depiction of "men" in general. And a bit offensive, actually.
Your post showed a very negative, and for the most part, unfair view of men.
Anyway, I hope that clears up what I meant. Sorry if I got a little heated in spots.
-- Will | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:29:22 PM | I hate to say it, but I belive Will is right. I am sooooo tired of hearing about that book. I was told "He's just not into you" so many times, and over half the time the info was WRONG. I have made the first move many times in contacting a guy. I have played the game, I have also not played the game. Everybody's different, the most inportant thing to remember is to be honest with each other. It isn't that he's "not into you", it's about you and him being honest with each other! If it was as easy as writing a book for figuring guys out, than no girl would be single who didn't want to be.
Just my two cents....... | |
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| Men.. Do you have to chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:35:02 PM | There's nothing I hate more than these stupid relationship " cook books ".
There's a million of them and they all say, a little of this, a pinch of that, a little of the other thing, and now you've got a relationship. Every one of them is B.S.
Expecially the one which only promote the old stupid, parochial attitudes of 100 years ago.
No one should be " chasing " anyone.
No one should be " playing " anything.
Real relationships can not be based on people screwing with eachothers brains and playing a lot of damn fool games with eachother. | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:42:08 PM |
If I needed the root canal I probrebly wouldnt be able to enjoy the pina colodas on the beach if I hadnt had the root canal. LMAO.  Ok here goes. If you were stranded on a desert island and there were no men or women would you wait for one to arrive or go swiming? (4) Days? Hmmmm.............. Are you gonna ask him why or just assume he hasnt found somthin else to do.  Sure is a good thing for forums cuz at least if he has so have you. (k) how do you get this quote thing to work? Im all new at this  I like what supernatural said. lol | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:46:53 PM | | If a women approaches me then I am flattered and it is insignificant who started what. I think any man who would be turned off by a women approaching him is a bit stuck in the 16th century. The "alpha male" is highly over rated!!! Times are changing and the modern male needs to change with it. I think the "game" is obsurd. People should communicate much more than they do! | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:47:51 PM | no the four days isnt a issue to me.. I wish I could erase it lol.. I know why, he told me why and I think it's understandable... I was just told according to the book four days is to long and if he was THAT into me he would blow everything off just to make time to email me or something.. He did contact me and he does work hard and deserves to go play with his friends for a change.. reading breaks only come so often... We don't even live in the same town lol... sorry that was just an example as to what the book would say... I'm not worried about the four days and I have no problem asking a guy something if it was bothering me... Lol I have my mothers outspokeness .. :P  | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:49:33 PM | | I believe that some girls miss out on really great guys because they don't want to say hi. I have approached shy guys, and made great friends! I feel shy guys get overlooked and it's not fair to them because girls won't say hello. | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:51:19 PM | | I agree, all though I have to say shy guys aren't really my thing.. I like guys more on the aggresive side.. and very confident... Not to say all shy guys are insecure.. :S | |
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| Men.. Do you have to chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:52:29 PM | It may work on BOYS but not MEN....I feel that books of this nature and dating newsletters
(esp.david deangelo) just give a false sense of control to unevolved individuals.....
Personally all my previous relationships without exeption inluding my ex who gave me 2 beautiful children, were initiated by the lady...not by concious choice...just happened that way. | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:53:29 PM | I asked a few of my guy friends for thier opinion on your question and it's like this.....
1. The whole meeting and dating process has to be 50/50. You need to show interest but also give him the opportunity to reciprocate. If you made the initial approach then give him a chance to call you first.
2. They're not offended when a woman makes the first move, it's HOW that determines his opinion of her. If she comes on to him in a slutty way then of course he's not going to be interested. Or he may be interested, but only in having sex.
3. Approaching a guy (in the right way) doesn't have any effect on his level of interest. If he wasn't interested to begin with he may decide to play along for a while, but it's just so he can get laid. (duh)
4. We ladies dont like it when men are to aggressive and they dont like it when we are.
5. Women should use the book along with some common sense to weed out the jerks. It's a great book, but we dont have to follow the rules to the letter.
Hope this helps. | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:53:44 PM |
The book told her that a female should never approach the guy or go for him, cause if he is intrested he will come to you. Also that men have to have the chase regaurdless so play hard to get.
What a crock of BS that is ...
Who ever wrote that book needs his or her head examined!!!! lol.
I personally do not chase women..Never have and never will. I like it when the woman approaches me and starts a conversation or states that she is interested in me.
do u really need to feel like ur hunting her down as she put it and conquering her.
No i do not need to feel the thrill of the hunt...Warm arms would be just fine.
Those caveman days are over with..I hope lol. | |
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| Men.. Do you have to chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 8:07:17 PM | Look, I think all of this is a symptom of a larger problem in the world, and part of the reason that all of us here have decided to search online for a relationship.
There's this entire backwards mentality with most people (Most women, but the men are victims of it so much that we get completely confused and spun around as a result, and we end up doing this just as much) these days, that cause them to think they'll be judged for everything that they say, and that every word and gesture will somehow secretly mean volumes more than what they simply are. "Hm, what did that mean?" "I wonder what motive is behind that." And that toying with a guy's feelings, and leading him on with microscopic "hints" and vague, shrugging, don't-give-a-damn answers is all better (what? Is it safer? More fun? More exciting for you?) then just putting the cards right down on the table, as the men so readily and immediately do.
And we all use the cliche of "I want someone who doesn't play games", and all that noise, but some women just refuse to open up to a guy, right up front from the start, or honestly and sincerely express their true feelings to another person. Because they "want to seem..." or they "don't want to come off as..." or they "don't want him to think I..." or any of that. Damn it, I have no idea WHY they do it. There is certainly no conceivable logical motive or purpose to it. Hell, I don't know, maybe they just want to be able to giggle with their friends about how this guy keeps calling, and really wants to go out, and really likes her, but "Tee hee, I'm gonna make him wait".
Dating has become this complicated mess of putting on appearances, and defenses, and double reverse psychology, and trying to figure out what the other person might think you really think if you say this or do that, and saying as little as possible, and not calling back right away because "you'll seem...", and not waiting too long to call back because "it'll look like...", and not wanting to get too close, and not wanting to push away... Ugh. It's why I (and so many men like me) have become completely sick of, and frustrated with, the current "dating scene". It's all head games and nonsense. Men aren't playing them. And men don't want ANY of that drama crap. But we are forced to endure it, time and time again.
Like I said before...
What ever happened to: "I like you", "I like you too"?
Direct and honest?
No, we can't have that anymore, ladies. Because the books say so. Make the men chase you! They'll thank you for it! NO, they won't! They'll get fed up and leave! It's for the birds. Complete and utter nonsense. And it's a symptom of a much larger problem that has destroyed romance and morphed simple old-fashioned mutual attraction into the convoluted, pretzel-twisted, ritual mating dance that is the current dating environment.
Look, if I wanted to feel challenged, and feel pride in accomplishing something, and feel good about "earning a hard won victory", and "prove my value to myself", (as was all suggested by Mako28 in msg. 57), and try to solve some damn puzzle... I'll buy a damn Rubik's Cube. This isn't about "instant gratification", Mako. It's about common mutual courtesy and respect for each other. Honesty. Forthrightness. And I'm NOT saying YOU, man... but if any hypothetical guy really needs to chase and woo and win a woman in order to prove his own value to himself... that is a self esteem issue, dude.
I don't know... I'm just fed up with all the nonsense and circular, counter-productive, evasive BS these days. And those damn books are one of the worst perpetrators of these lies and misconceptions.
For the most part, I do believe that it's not because the females (most of them) are in any way cruel or mean or sadistic or nuts. I love you ladies, and I respect you, and I want to help you help all of us. But it's essentially because you've been lied to, and misled about men, and what they "want".
-- Will | |
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| Men.. Do you have to have the chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 8:09:18 PM | If a woman is into me there's no need to chase her. You can see it in her eyes and body language. Make a move right away, if she's the one.
If I have to chase, I assume she's not into me and I lose interest. Probably a game player.
Sometimes she's into me but she pretends she's not, these go in the backburner as backups.
Sometimes she's into me but I don't realize it cos I don't read women's subtle signals well. I treat them like friends and wonder why they're so friendly.
The best is to keep several so I don't focus too much on any one. If they want to be chased better find a "nice guy" or a dog.
The worst is if they first steal your heart, and then want to be chased, a tough call, Depends why they're backing off -- insecure, some other guy, wrong girl, etc.
Boy, it sure was simpler when I was married. | |
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| Men.. Do you have to chase?
Posted: 2/26/2006 8:14:08 PM | Oh my Scorpio, you sure do have a mouthful and some. You are a great writer and you have a real knack for expression but honey please try to edit your response down a bit next time we all have to work in the morning!  (don't take it personally I'm just joking around k?) 
Ok well I'm glad you clarified it, it is very confusing sometimes what guys mean by "leading on" so we go back to my main point which was it is sad that some women used all these silly books like the one mentioned in this thread and books like THE RULES and taken them literally only to go the complete 180 to now treat men by leaving them completely in the dark and only expecting to take take take.
The thing is that now the buzz in the air of single life seems to be people jumping the gun all over the place thinking that perhaps this is happening when it isn't.
You know I've been told I can be hard to read by some guys and I feel I wear my heart on my sleeve and sometimes women act opposite to how they normally are when they really like a guy so don't let that fool you. Granted that if you are dating a woman and she is just not reciprocating then you need to abort mission. BUT if it is a matter of just being a little patient then why not? I find with today's easy access to dating like with internet dating for example people don't have much patience. There is a plethora of opportunities waiting for me in my little black box at home so why waste my time trying to figure out one person?
Sad but true. Are ALL women leading guys on or are guys maybe getting a little impatient?
Dating has become this complicated mess of putting on appearances, and defenses, and double reverse psychology, and trying to figure out what the other person might think you really think if you say this or do that, and saying as little as possible, and not calling back right away because "you'll seem...",
noooo, it hasn't "become" like that it's always been like that. That sounds like a parent
saying "my goodness back in our day there weren't so many homosexuals" There were always homosexuals, it was less open and infomation was not as easily accesible. ;-) | |
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So how do you get this quote thing to work?