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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/4/2006 6:21:07 AM |
Some groups want to legalize pot, prostitution, whatever, and nobody questions their right to lobby to advocate for legal changes to conform to their agendas. All kinds of religious groups do the same thing. If a society as a whole wishes to incoporate sharia law by democratic means, where's the problem?
promoting sharia law is very different from say advocating pot legalisation. the pot smokers will still be governed by the law of land and subject to the charter of rights here in canada.
muslims fundamentalists want to substitute sharia law to the charter of rights. they openly declare that a muslim, wherever they live, should only be governed by sharia law. Of course in ontario, they tried to open a window for the application of sharia to settle family disputes ( inheritance, marriage...). It's naive to think that they would have stopped their demands right there. It was just a first step in their long march.
sharia law in the hands of muslims fundamentalists would set women back 1000's of years. It's a law that does not recognize equality of the sexes in any form and consequently is in direct contradiction of the charter of rights.
So you cannot be governed by sharia law in a country ruled by the charter of rights.
Lastly if you want to learn more about sharia, visit this site: www.nosharia.com
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/4/2006 8:49:48 AM | please note all views expressed by me are my opinion alone,....
and any time I drag something out of a site or wherever,..well that's FYI only,....
having said that,...yynot,...you ask if there are muslims in Austrailia,..and if muslums should be second class citizens,....and here's what I think,...
yes there are muslims I dare say living in Australia as they are just about everywhere arround the world,....just like jews,...and christians and atheists,...but if you are going to live somewhere then are you not
-an Australian who is a practicing,..muslim,....
-or a muslim that happens to live in Australia,...
just as I am a Canadian who came from Germany and who happens to belong to no particular formal religious group but,...who does believe in,...well that part I haven't quite figured out,..but I do believe,....
but I am a Canadian first,....all that other stuff is an aspect also,....
anyone can volunterily live any way they want,...they just can't force anyone else to if they don't want to,.....so where tribunals tend to favor some and give their side extra weight the law of the land takes that edge away and puts us all on a level playing field,...men,...women,..even children,...black white,..yellow or brown,....all the same,...
And that's another reason we are a number one destination arround the world for people wanting to immigrate to,...travel the world sometimes see how many would give anything to be able to come here,...it surprised me,..I can tell you that,...because I too was led to believe everyone wanted to go to the USA,...but they don't,...they want to come here,...go figure,...so we must be doing something right,....
we have living here quakers and mennonites,...(I'm not really sure what the difference is but I am sure there is one)..and they live in their own little community and don't force their way of life on anyone,....they live the way they choose to and are perfectly allowed to do just that,..because it impeeds no one,....they even invite anyone into their comunity who wants to come and see their way of life and to sell their wares,...they also make the best apple butter on the planet but that's for another forum,....
the point,...anyone in Canada can practice and live anyway they want,...but,...they also have to live according to the laws of the land and not force anyone to change to meet their needs,.....we bend now and then,....our own millitary made it ok for seiks to wear turbins as a part of the military uniform,...that in itself caused a lot of contreversey,...because many believed you serve in our uniform or don't serve at all,...some say what the hey,..it's just cloth,...get over it,.....
So we can from time to time compromize,....we have french on every lable,..street sign,...and to get a government job you have to speak both languages,...because we compromized,...but I dare say even we have a limit beyond which we will not go and still remain Canada,....
but sometimes a line has to be drawn this far and no further,...and it seems the Australians have done it first,..... | |
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/4/2006 10:06:32 AM | My America is A Consitutional Republic, not a Biblical One. In choosing to not endorse any one God over another the founders of my country made a choice for freedom.
My High School History Teacher said 94% of my Constitution came from the Bitish one. As citizens of the Free World we share many things in common, FREEDOM being perhaps the greatest thing. Our parents fought wars together for freedom.
Sharia Law and the Ten Commandments are not insitutions of Freedom. Freedom allows any Church to be homophobic or hateful, it does not allow a church to act on those manifestations. Freedom allows any citizen to choose their own church or not choose one at all. Sharia Law does not provide for that any more than Christianity's own arrogant assertion of being "the only means" of "salvation." Along with the Ten Commandments and any form of religous imposition Sharia Law does not belong in "liberated" Iraq let alone a Free World Nation. Although I find epsionbj's anti American rhetoric quite counterproductive in the end I think he is right about Sharia Law setting the rights of women back a thousand years. Anyone concerned for the rights of women should really look at how they've deteriorated so dramatically in Iraq in the wake of our (American) invasion. You're not seeing many soundbites from women forced behind burkas with recently cut out tounges from Iraq now are you?
Please forgive the digression. I loathe recent Australian Foreign Policy but I respect this man for taking a stand. This is the least divisive action I've seen by a "coalition" member since the start of the madness we are engulfed in. If we can get the leadership across the board to let up on the divisive tactics we might actually get a start on finding direction. Way to go Australia! | |
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/4/2006 10:22:49 AM | Marita b,
Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Has anyone advocated breaking the law? Laws aren't fixed for all time. I personally don't agree with implenting Sharia law within Canada, even with all the safeguards, but I fully support the right of any group to try to change the law as it sees fit within the bounds of the democratic process. | |
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/7/2006 8:46:42 AM | Islamic Sharia law does not respect civilized societies.
I agree with Australia...if they don't respect Australia, these people have nothing to do there!
You have to ALWAYS respect good local people
down with islamic sharia...it's uncivilized, not nice...
perhaps time to make some muhammed caricatures | |
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/8/2006 7:02:06 AM | is there not a difference between the heavy handedness of,....
I'm going to war no matter what,....
and you better come with,..or else,...
and someone saying this is what our country is,...
you are welcome to stay and follow our rules,...
or find a place that has the rules you wish to live by?
one can be heavy handed in many very different ways,...
some I'm for,...some not so much,....
I don't have one reaction to all things,...
I like to consider each on it's own merrit and then decide where MY opinion,...(which is all it ever is),...lies,...
and I like you too big guy,...even when at times we disagree,... | |
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/8/2006 7:27:35 PM | Thanks Marita...I always like to read your posts due to the things you've been through with your own sons, and you have much wisdom we could all learn from.
I'm just about convinced that nothing Bush does now will be received favorably by many left leaners....hell, now he's getting blamed for Hurricanes | |
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/8/2006 7:28:08 PM |  Well done Australia!
Polite but firm...... Tolerant but principled...... the kind of politics we need more of.
Yes there are different forms of Shari'a but the problem with all of them is that they try to
implement the teachings and practices of Muhammad.
I see this as a problem because Muhammad commanded Muslims to kill those who leave Islam.
He also forced prisoners-of-war into slavery, had more than 4 wives and was, by modern
definition, a pedophile.
Also, judging from the places where Shari'a has been implemented - Saudi Arabia, Iran,
Northern Nigeria and Afghanistan (under the Taliban, 1996-2001) - it would appear to be
an extremely violent and oppressive system.
Not so long ago a Sharia Court in northern Nigeria tried to have a girl stoned-to-death for
the "crime" of getting pregnant by a man who had promised to marry her.
(She was granted asylum in Cyprus.)
Australia doesn't even have the death-penalty; little wonder they're not keen on the idea
of legalising death-by-stoning, public-floggings, severing-of-limbs and other cruel & unusual
punishments from 7th Century Arabia!
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 37 | |
| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/8/2006 8:39:58 PM |
I see this as a problem because Muhammad commanded Muslims to kill those who leave Islam. He also forced prisoners-of-war into slavery, had more than 4 wives and was, by modern definition, a pedophile.
7th Century Arabia was a lot more savage than that.
Mohammad brought order to a very savage people. Introduced Hygiene by commanding to wash before prey and prey 5 times a day. Brought taxation and law. Now the 4 wives thing, Arabs of that era often buried baby girls, Mohammad forbid that and then said it's okay to have 4 wives and came up with a very elaborate variations of marriage contracts.
The Arabs, became so well organized that with in 30 years, took on the Persian and Byzantine empires, the super powers of the time and defeated them both.
No matter what, a form of Sharia is going to stay in the legal system of all Muslim countries. | |
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/8/2006 9:26:39 PM | Selective democracy in action. How can a "democratic" government just tell a group of a people to get the hell out of their country because they are pushing an agenda that is not popular? If the country became a majority Islamic and voted enough members in Parliament/Congress to change the laws and legal system then that is how the governments called democracies work. If you cannot accept that perhaps people should move and start a fundamentalist christian state or make sure that politicians who do not want Sha'ria law get voted in. This might motivate more than 50% of the eligible voters in the US to get off their asses. How sad people are cheering anti-democratic actions, but then again the U.S. passed the Patriot Act. | |
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/9/2006 4:17:51 AM | | I don't se this as anti-democratic..usually minorities assimilate, but Muslims have a long History of NOT doing this. SO when they try to push their laws and culture rather than adopt to their new country then yea I'd throw their asses out also. Seems pretty smart to me....also the Patriot Act came after 9/11 which change everything... | |
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/9/2006 4:29:00 AM | I'm just about convinced that nothing Bush does now will be received favorably by many left leaners....hell, now he's getting blamed for Hurricanes
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I'm not so sure,...the one thing that always amazes me to no end is that the general American public,...seems to me from the outside looking in THEE MOST FORGIVING BUNSH,..I have ever seen,....
I bet had Nixon not resigned they would have forgiven him too,...
honestly,....I think all he has to do is try not to seem quite so,...
"I am the king and ruler and you my surfs,..are to little and dumb to know what I do,..what is best,...(for me and my friends) and you can live with",...."eventually"
and God bless America,...Rah,..rah,...yada,..yada,..yada,...
but your right,...even he isn't in controll of the weather,...although,.....
(didn't the CIA look into weather manipulation),...but nahhhhhh just kidding,....
lol,.... sorry I couldn't help myself,..... | |
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/9/2006 6:26:44 AM | or he could have said,...like the Australians did,...
this is America,....we allow you to live anyway you wish to while you are here among us but,...the number one thing is you have to follow the law of the land,....
first,...
and if this isn't something you wish to do you are free to find someplace more suitable to your way of living???????? if you soo chooooooose????
no one is deported,..kicked anywhere merely given an alternative option,...
I couldn't imagine a fellow who thinks
If your not with us your against us,..saying that either,..but | |
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/9/2006 9:30:36 AM | Imagine if Bush had said this.
^^If Bush were capable of putting it as tactfully and reasonably as those Aussie MPs
I’d applaud him too.
Unfortunately the 'cowboy' doesn't understand the subtlties of diplomacy.
How can a "democratic" government just tell a group of a people to get the hell out of their country
^^They didn't tell anyone to "get the hell out".
They reiterated their nation's democratic principles and simply stated:
"If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy and
would prefer Sharia law, and have the opportunity to go to another country
which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option,"
Can't get much more democratic than that!
It's one thing to reject intergration and practice a self-imposed aparthied.
But demanding laws which totally fly in the face of the adopted country's laws is a step
too far.
If you go to a Non-Smoking, Vegetarian restaurant and demand a table away from everyone
else, you may appear prejudiced but it would be permissable.
But if you were to complain about your "rights" because lamb-chops aren't on the menu and
you're not allowed to light-up, the restaurant manager would be well within his rights to
suggest a restaurant down the road where you can do those things.
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/9/2006 2:01:18 PM | I love the terrible restaurant analogy. The whole point of a democracy is to elect officials based on different ideas and platforms. If there is an elected MUSLIM majority and they enact Sha'ria law that is how democracies work. If the electorate votes for a ton of Muslims for Parliament, Congress or whatever legislative body that is how the whole DEMOCRACY thing works. If Australia is terrified of being overrun by Muslims perhaps they should enact xenophobic immigration policies to prevent the population influx of Muslims. Telling them about their democratic principles and "tactfully" saying get the hell out is undemocratic. It is saying our way or the high way, which again is undemocratic a recurring theme eh? Democracies change and adapt over time due to different policies, beliefs, and population bases. What Australia said is no better than a white man smiling during the Jim Crow era and telling an African American that "this how us white folks behave, but if you don't like it there is a continent called Africa." Yup, keep pretending to practice what you preach until an idea that scares you comes along, nice job sticking to principles. If people are truly afraid of Sha'ria law being enacted in a democracy do the democratic thing and VOTE for candidates that won't enact it.  | |
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/9/2006 2:19:07 PM | how on earth can you compare the one,....
treatment of a fellow country person as a less than human,...verses
we will not conform to your way of life,...
are there people in Australia being told to sit in the back of the bus,...because of their religion?
or told they can't use this bathroom,...dooor,..nor drink from this fountain,...
are there white guys with sheets riding up and planting crosses on their lawns,...
wholey smokes,...I think your going to have to do better than that,...
at least compare fruit to fruit or vegie to vegie,....
but vegie to cow,....not really working | |
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| BRITS, AMERICANS and CANADIANS.....ARE YOU LISTENING? This is Leadership
Posted: 3/9/2006 3:00:07 PM | | Yes, actually we should. Let's not forget that no matter what the religious freaks say it is NOT a fact that God exists. Science and rational thought prove otherwise. You can believe whatever you want in private but God doesn't exist any more than Santa Claus, tinkerbell, the Easter Bunny, or The Tooth Fairy.......and they were all LIES that our parents finally admitted to sooner or later! To add insult to injury the religious leaders aren't paying taxes and many of them are molesting our children! God is a stupid concept and an international mental illness and belief in God is caused by centuries of brainwashing innocent children to the point to which they cannot think rationally as adults. The people in the U.S.A. obsessed with the 10 commandments for the most part are the same people responsible for putting George Bush and his warmongers in power and are the same people trying to take away women's abortion rights. I'm sick and tired of religious fanatics trying to force us to live our lives the way they want to live theirs. The Christian God is no better that the Islamic one and way too many people in this world believe in way too many false Gods! | |
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