| Astrology? obviously for the enlightened
Posted: 3/6/2006 1:47:43 PM | | i think people give people a bad name.....not neccessarily does it have anythign to do with how they lye to people.....seems that even our highly elected... are in the line of lying to make a profit......so there is bad in every corner of the world.....its your job as a consumer to decide if your being played.... | |
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Regnis
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Joined: 2/27/2006
Msg: 52 | |
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Regnis
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Joined: 2/27/2006
Msg: 53 | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 4:34:00 PM | Again – I will attempt to reiterate some points that a few have totally missed in all their haste to challenge and condemn this thread and argue a mute point in general.
I started this thread after being in other astrology threads where people actually expressed interest in the topic but only knew that which was printed in the newspaper – which is NOT astrology.
I thought the suggestion of getting a natal chart prepared would be a basic simple guide to get them started.
I did not however name the thread:
‘ASTROLOGY – DO YOU THINK I’M AN IDIOT FOR BELIEVING IN IT?’
or
‘ASTROLOGY – TELL ME WHY YOU DON’T THINK IT’S REAL’
or
ASTROLOGY – LET’S HAMMER ESP AND PSYCHICS WHILE WE’RE AT IT’
It was started with the sole intent to make a suggestion to those that were interested, a “tool” that may help some that seek to enlighten themselves about themselves through astrology.
I am fully aware this is a public forum – and welcome everyone’s input – if Astrology is not for you, please know your opinions have been read, noted and respected.
I fail to understand why you feel the need to hang around and try to convince myself and others why it is bogus BS in your eyes.
My opinion is it worked for me and my life – if it has not worked for you and your life or you have no interest in it – fine with me – truly
Please understand my frustration at having respected your opinions and not receiving the same courtesy in return. I am not arguing with you as to why you SHOULD believe – matter of fact – it would be wonderful if you had stated your case and moved on.
Astrology has been useful in my life – I had a natal chart done years ago – it was amazingly accurate and I used it to spot my potential character weaknesses and work on them – they were in fact all things that were applicable to my character. It was a useful guide – I read it a couple times and it’s been in the bookcase ever since – not posted by my door or laying on the table as some sort of bible to live my life by.
In case anyone failed to read prior posts – let me quote some excerpts again:
“I hate to make a long post, but would like to try to offer some insight to the people that shrug off astrology as a joke or don't know that much about it – it’s a very interesting science if you choose to explore it in depth and that’s not meaning the newspapers lil daily blurb”
”If you’re even half way interested in discovering what makes you tick, do yourself a favor and get a natal chart done (cheap and surprisingly informational) or if you’re heading into one or already in a relationship have a compatibility chart prepared – it certainly isn’t a manual for the relationship but will show you the strengths and weaknesses of it”
”If you’re a person striving to improve on yourself you can use this info to identify potential pitfalls in life and/or your relationship. Knowledge is power and with all the strife in relationships these days, what can it possibly hurt? Below is a brief explanation of a natal report…”
“I’ve yet to see anyone have one prepared and not be amazed at what they read including the biggest of skeptics...give it a whirl, nothing ventured, nothing gained right?”
“Thank you Regnis - I appreciate your posts and your adamant negative opinion of astrology has been duly noted. I realize you’re very much entitled to your opinions and beliefs, but in no way did I start this thread to create a “challenge and argument” to prove or disprove it’s merit in our lives nor did I intend to push an agenda on anyone. It was merely a suggestive tool, something I’ve had first hand knowledge of being very accurate, for those that may have questions or are seeking some means to improve their lives”
“A horoscope is a blueprint of your character and potentials–a cosmic portrait. The heavenly bodies, however, impel but do not compel: an understanding of the planetary energies operating in your life allows you to be in control and to use these energies intelligently for your success and personal evolution”
“I believe (note the words “I believe”) using astrology as a tool can teach us to understand ourselves better and live more harmoniously with those around us, call it ‘science’ or bullcock, it’s just a suggestion, take it or leave it”
“I only started that thread to help the people expressing wonderment in other threads, understand they can easily obtain a natal chart on themselves and see that astrology is more than the crap in newspapers that's for entertainment value only”
”I prefer to expand my horizons with all knowledge, share it when I can as well as reach out and embrace things that I cannot see and touch (much like the emotion "love")”
“I agree with you that too many people are looking for cop-outs, things to believe in fanatically or people/churches to blindly follow - astrology is not a cop-out or a reason to act like an assh*le (or not) - it does not ‘control’ or dictate anyone as a matter of fact - we choose our own paths in life, based on many different factors - astrology is a tool - to recognize where our strengths and weaknesses may lie based on planetary positions at the time of our birth - a tool if you choose to seek it out and use it”
”If not, than relying on ones self and their own motivation to become the best they can be is a perfectly acceptable way to carry on your existence, tool-less. I say wonderful to those that need nothing and no one to help them through the wondrous journey called life”
”I will reiterate again, Astrology is not for everyone”
I am asking humbly that the posters that don’t feel astrology has merit or is bogus, that have numerous times stated their case, to please stop with the analyzing of me, what has worked in my life (my beliefs) and this thread. | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 5:20:20 PM | Last post:
- what you posted was anecdotal (which was one of my bullets #'s). Just because it works in 1 circumstance due to a MERE COINCIDENCE DUE TO THE VAGUE NATURE OF IT...still doesn't make it legitimate
- learn about statistics.
eg. did you know that in a group of 32 people there is an 85% chance of 2 people having the same birthday?
- I am guessing you only believe this garbage because it gives you meaning in less; I guess thats better than you being depressed, so dream on! | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 5:51:36 PM | ****challenge***
it's simple...shooo! | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 5:56:09 PM | | It's a bit disheartening that the OP is getting so much flack for posting a discussion topic. You don't like it believe in it, fine post that and be on your way. Don't think she's taking a poll. The argument over the merits of astrology has been going on for centuries. It's a good topic for discussion, but discuss it with the angst turned back a bit. | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 6:43:40 PM | | Science has disproved astrology. I'm quite shocked to see that some people actually believe it. At least it is easy to control and manipulate such people. | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 6:46:25 PM | | another one geez....shoo!!!! | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 6:47:23 PM | | You said it Bucsgirls...thank you! | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 7:19:20 PM | I wrote a moderator the first night I posted this thread and asked to have it deleted because of the first response and I didn’t want to be known for “lengthy posts” – which I know bother some of the forum frequenters.
I had a gut feeling – that’s right – a gut feeling it would go nowhere good, and by damn – it’s happened.
Off topic comment about to occur! – thread will probably soon be deleted
I don't know - is it just me?
When I'm driving to the store on Sunday morning and let's just say - pass a church, full of attendees, a faith of which I happen to not believe in what they are preaching, do I swerve off the road, run in the doors and shout to everyone they are being misled and full of shit for believing?
no......they are there because that's what works in their life AND I respect that - it's their choice and their belief and it’s my option not to attend!
Why is that such a hard concept to grasp here?
Little do some realize the more breath they waste with futile argument and (their) point proving, their original opinions and "arguments" become little more than useless fodder.
I can't even take some of these people seriously at this point when at one point I actually had respect for their differing viewpoints. especially – the ones that jumped on the bandwagon without reading prior posts or the OP, as well as the ones that changed the subject entirely.
Rereading this whole thing has given new meaning to me and opened my eyes to the unfortunate souls that have nothing better to do with their time and energy but argue and spew forth negativity in it’s purest form.
I’m thankful my life is full of blessings, beliefs, experiences, love and positive energy. I remain today as in the past and future willing and able to share those things with (most) anyone. | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 7:43:54 PM | private Just my own personal thoughts. Anybody that reads my profile can see I'm a baptist, southern baptist. Woohoo. I agree or agreed to accept their doctrine of faith and their core beliefs. If you could find a church, a religion (I'm so not liking that word) that believes and accepts what you do, guess what. They'd have a membership of 1. I choose to let my mind be open, and accept that some aspects of astrology seem to fit me to a T. I've dared to let my mind consider witchcraft, Sybil Leek Diary of A Witch, I read with fasincation. It seems to me, that most people get a bit uncomfortable or dare I say afraid, when the discussion turns to the world of spirits. Someone mentioned ghosts,...haha, oh that's okay but astrology?
I am so in tune with the last line of your post. For me that says it.
"I’m thankful my life is full of blessings, beliefs, experiences, love and positive energy."
I'm with you. And it does make me sad that, really isn't that what we all want, yet can get into the total polar opposite of what we want. As for me myself, I'm SO with you, no matter how we frame, what we call it. I don't get hung up or twisted over that.
So let's just go with that, blessings, belief love and positive energy. I'm loving it!! | |
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Regnis
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Joined: 2/27/2006
Msg: 63 | |
| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 7:54:44 PM | | Yes, Church Religon is okay. But the op stated that Astrology is a science. A religion is not science. RTFM. | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 7:57:03 PM | When I was in my early 20's I dabbled a little bit with astrology. I had picked up a book at the local library and began to do a chart on myself. Quite fascinated with the fact that wherever the moon was when you was born is what affects your personality. I have a Saggitarius personality and going on further a lot of the planets when I was born was in Libra
It was fascinating because I have a lot of Gemini friends and Libras and Geminis are compatible.
I had a friend tell me and I do find this humourous that Scorpio men make the best lovers. Never dated a Scorpio personally. | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 7:58:22 PM | Bucs - my opinion - after viewing many of your posts and reading your profile several times - you're an absolute gem - a rare find
I don't say that because you agreed or disagreed with the thread - I say that because you truly radiate warmth, love, kindness and an open view to the world
To Bucs, Metaphysicalgypsy, Cougar, Muffy, Primlearthangel and Lump Sugar - please accept my sincerest thankyou for not using this thread as a dumping ground for anger but rather contributing something worthwhile to read - I respect each of you and your opinions and wish you nothing but the best life has to offer  | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 8:15:17 PM |
When I'm driving to the store on Sunday morning and let's just say - pass a church, full of attendees, a faith of which I happen to not believe in what they are preaching, do I swerve off the road, run in the doors and shout to everyone they are being misled and full of shit for believing?
Faith is a suspension of disbelief. A leap into fantasy. Very dangerous stuff. Witch burnings etc arise from this kind of irrational thinking. You have a duty to stop your car and make an effort to bring the brainwashed people to their senses. On the other hand, if you , yourself, have a faith, then you are being a hypocrit. Myself, I'm an atheist and have a right and duty to save people from their stupidity. | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/6/2006 8:19:17 PM | private Don't need a dumping ground, I have nothing to dump. This I thought was a thread for discussion, a legit topic. But I've been wrong before. Go figure. The OP didn't turn it into what it's become, I've started good, positive, great threads that have been trolled and been deleted. It speaks volumes to those who are attuned and have a clue that good news, good stuff seems to be the first to be discarded, and flamed.
Don't let it discourage you. Like attracts like.
A thread is a thread, but those that radiate love, life, positive energy, no matter what they choose to label it. I tend to not label it, I say what it is to me in my life, someone has another label, I'm missing out if I refuse or reject their label their name to what I'm about or I feel or experience. I just love people, I embrace the good in good people when I find it, and I'm highly attuned. The differences in what people call it or label it, let them reject or move away from it, I'd rather enjoy it and embrace it. It works for me.
sugar "Faith is a suspension of disbelief. A leap into fantasy. Very dangerous stuff. Witch burnings etc arise from this kind of irrational thinking. You have a duty to stop your car and make an effort to bring the brainwashed people to their senses. On the other hand, if you , yourself, have a faith, then you are being a hypocrit. Myself, I'm an atheist and have a right and duty to save people from their stupidity."
A suspension of disbelief? That's your choice, but we choose to believe in what we believe in. The progression from belief to faith for me is just a step. And it starts with yourself. If I'm reading this wrong, and sorry if I am but if you don't have belief, first off, then faith and hope in yourself and what you want. Then why are you here? What is it that you want or seek, that you would waste your time here if you didn't think there was something here for you?
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/7/2006 3:28:43 AM |  ahhh Bucs - seems another searching for something to hold onto or hell bent on saving the world - and they talk about evangelists! Am wondering when they’re going to post a number to call to contribute money to their “cause” – oh yeah – that would surely get the thread dumped
Sitting here with my coffee - feeling very reinforced that single life is wonderful  | |
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Regnis
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Joined: 2/27/2006
Msg: 69 | |
| Astrology
Posted: 3/7/2006 4:24:32 AM | I love how you ignore my one argument and attack the person, very scientific
my entire point is that its not a science, I don't care if people pratice occult or witchcraft or whatever.. ITS NOT A FREAKING SCIENCE | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/7/2006 5:52:22 AM | | PROVE it's not a science. You can't. You already stated your viewpoints twice, at least. SHOUTED them, we get it. You don't think it's a science. | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/7/2006 7:35:05 AM | It is very simple to prove it is not a science.
Mathematics is not science. It is a tool that is used in science, but in itself it is not science.
The one thing that all astrologists agree upon is that a complete natal chart describes individual personalities. There is much disagreement beyond that as to predictive abilities of astrology with the usual excuses for the misses being that persons have free will and can alter the predicted outcome. That is a rational argument even if the underlying basis for it is not rational, although it then makes any predicted future action unverifiable.
As for the mechanism that astrology is purported to work upon, it is possible that there is some mechanism that we don't yet know about that could possibly have an effect. Gravitational pull is not a very reasonalbe hypothesis for the reasons cited in this thread. (Note I said possible, not probable).
Given that, natal astrology could easily be proven/disproven to have a predictive effect on the personality of each person with rigorous statistical analysis. Since astrology is done mathematically with definite rules, it should be able to be mathematically verified. Computers available on the intenet can cast charts of any depth and accuracy you desire in seconds. That removes any personal bias that a person might enter into casting a chart.
It would require a large sample of people and rigorous documentation of each of the traits each planet and the house, etc. predicted against rigorous documentation of each person's actual traits. If it were done in a double blind fashion where the documentation of the subject's personality traits were done with no knowledge of the subject's astrology info, that would lend credence. Once the data are gathered and verified objective and valid, statistical correlations can easily be performed to get the valid mathematical probability that any portion of the astrological chart does in fact describe the trait.
Has this ever been done? I have never heard of any such valid study done on astrology. Yet by its very mathematical nature, it should be easily done and remove the belief system on either side affecting the outcome of the results.
That is real science and since it has never been done or proven with such an unbiased analysis is why it is not, in fact, science.
Astrology as Religion, it can be argued as a faith based system - unprovable by science. Altho it is interesting that most Christian religions condemn it as a form of witchcraft which they seem to believe is a threat to their own belief system - as unverifiable as any of that is. | |
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Regnis
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Joined: 2/27/2006
Msg: 72 | |
| Astrology
Posted: 3/7/2006 8:03:21 AM | | To make something a science, it has to follow the Scentific Principle and Scienctific Method and must be falsifiable (sp). None of which Astrology has done.PROVE it's not a science. | |
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Regnis
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Joined: 2/27/2006
Msg: 73 | |
| Astrology
Posted: 3/7/2006 8:04:11 AM |
Has this ever been done? I have never heard of any such valid study done on astrology.
The only result of a small scale study similar to yours is that Astrology was correct no more then random chance. | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 3/7/2006 9:41:52 AM | "Astrology is a science in itself and contains an illuminating body of knowledge. It taught me many things, and I am greatly indebted to it. Geophysical evidence reveals the power of the stars and the planets in relation to the terrestrial. In turn, astrology reinforces this power to some extent. This is why astrology is like a life-giving elixir to mankind." - ALBERT EINSTEIN
I'll go with my buddy Al on this one. I believe he was a scientist, so I'd give his credentials a bit more weight. *sink* | |
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MdMac
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Joined: 2/28/2006
Msg: 75 | |
| Astrology? obviously not for everyone!!
Posted: 3/7/2006 9:50:56 AM | There seems to be a lot of hostilities around a topic about innerpeace. 
I want to thank Privatenites for putting this post up. I clicked on this out of boredom and was very entertained for the time it took me to read that post. What was posted after made me laugh. Hard 
Although I do not put alot of merrit into astrology, I find it entertaining to see if some calculation and interpretation of me comes as close to as how I see me. The ones that I like I usually keep and the ones I don't I disregard. It is a personal decision for me or anyone else to spend their time or money on these readings. And if you are trying to tell me that there aren't worth things to waste it on, your nuts.
People need to live their lives themselves and not wait for anyone to tell them how to live it especially a prophecy from the stars. Unfortunatley, not all people can or do. The positive reinforcement and encouragement that comes from these readings is not wasted.
Everybody needs something to believe in. No matter how much others disbelieve, it doesn't matter it is their belief. Throwing mud at it and attacking it just shows who the bully's are in the playground.
Thanks again Privatenites. It was a good read.
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