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 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 176
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?Page 8 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
I am over 50, not ready to roll over and die just yet............in fact, wonder of wonders........Chivalry REALLY is alive and well. I may have found that precious JEWEL!!
 TennKan
Joined: 11/4/2008
Msg: 177
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/13/2008 6:10:52 PM
Unfortunately in todays world so many people mistake kindness for weakness. This is evident in the actions movies and video games that are the best sellers. We have not lost chivalry, it simply became a victim to the masses that label a gentleman as weak and needy.

Personally, I still beleive in opening doors and using sir/maam when addressing strangers. But I have noticed more often than not, people will look at you like your up to something. I think chivalry still exist but society needs to appreciate and respect that quality in people.

Also it is very important this is instilled in our children everyday. To many uninvolved parents not forcing the issue of learning these codes rather allow them to learn the codes on the street.
 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 178
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/13/2008 7:46:21 PM
TennKan
There are still women out there, like me for instance that think , no, I know ......that being a gentleman and being strong enough to be one.in the face of the new morality and and lack of chilvary as commonplace.................a man like you is REFRESHING.......
I am even amazed at the lack of manners from so many. I would never dream of walking in front of someone and not saying "excuse me"........as one example......from both sexes.............. but I have found even that is lacking today. I think a gentleman is a rare find..I applaud you!!
 wildcat99
Joined: 8/28/2007
Msg: 179
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/13/2008 8:02:28 PM
I've heard for years how chivalry has been killed by feminism and the equality of women but I can't seem to reconcile such a ridiculous statement to fact. Seems to me that its just another way for some men to justify acting badly.

Historically, chivalry was just a code of conduct for knights that included honouring their duty to other countrymen, duty to God and duty to women. Only one of the definitions of chivalry included courting women. But the commonanlity in all definitions and classifications of chivlary was nobility and honour in all their dealings with women as well as within their communities.

From reading this thread (and I admit I did not read every page) it seems that modern day chivalry has been diminished to just include minor gestures such as opening doors for women, buying them flowers, holding their arms etc. And men keep insisting that women don't care for this type of behaviour because they want to be treated as equals. I can't, for the life of me, understand how being treated with courtesy and respect would make any woman, feminist or not, independent or not, feel "unequal" or diminshed in any way.

I keep hearing how some women object to doors being opened for them yet I have never actually seen this behaviour with my own eyes. Ever. I can't help but think its some kind of urban legend that's been perpetuated by a handful of men who were scorned by a handful of women.

Early on in this thread, commonsens provided a pretty accurate definition of chivalrous behaviour:

-Honor above all, death before dishonor
- Respect yourself and others
- Your word is your bond
- Courage at all time.
- Honest in your mind and in your hearth.
- Faith in your convictions in front of adversity.
- Your duty is to protect who can't
- Uphold justice even before law or power.
- Help anyone in need.


Keywords here are honor, respect, courage, honesty and justice. How could women have ruined common decency just by objecting to a couple of doors being opened? Give me a break. As human beings we should all aspire to such behaviour.
 rivereye
Joined: 2/19/2008
Msg: 180
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/13/2008 10:34:08 PM
Simple answer to the original question:
Whatever happened is called the "21st Century Fox"
Unfortunately for us guys, Satan will always be perceived as male. Oh well.
 sexyfunguy
Joined: 4/9/2005
Msg: 181
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/13/2008 10:39:03 PM
Commitment is alive and well - chivalry - not so much.

I usually try to be chivalrous, but it almost always tend to backfire on me. The thing about opening doors (whether its a car door or a mall entrance door) is true - some women just get uppity about it. After a few stings, you just don't do it anymore....
 Roving_Adventurer
Joined: 8/28/2007
Msg: 182
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/13/2008 10:43:49 PM
Then there`s this song from Camolot:

Where are the simple joys of maidenhood?
Where are all those adoring daring boys?
Where's the knight pining so for me
he leaps to death in woe for me?
Oh where are a maiden's simple joys?

Shan't I have the normal life a maiden should?
Shall I never be rescued in the wood?
Shall two knights never tilt for me
and let their blood be spilt for me?
Oh where are the simple joys of maidenhood?

Shall I not be on a pedestal,
Worshipped and competed for?
Not be carried off, or better st'll,
Cause a little war?
Where are the simple joys of maidenhood?

Are those sweet, gentle pleasures gone for good?
Shall a feud not begin for me?
Shall kith not kill their kin for me?
Oh where are the trivial joys?
Harmless, convivial joys?
Where are the simple joys of maidenhood?

---------------------------

Sorry ladies. I have not intention of feuding for you, dying for you spilling my blood for you, or leaping to death for you. You`ll have find a younger fool
 WanderingRain
Joined: 3/9/2008
Msg: 183
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/13/2008 11:13:14 PM
WE do tend to view chivalry of the past through rose tinted glasses.

That chivalrous man of days of yore opened your doors and is a perfect gentleman with a lady.
But then he also went and beat his slaves; would go "be with the boys" by shooting a helpless animal for sport not food or burned and pillaged other kingdoms (even killing children) because his King said so.

So he may not open your doors, but at least he does not beat his slaves.
"Being with the boys" for him only means watching football on a widescreen.
When he is sent to foreign lands, it is usually as a business trip.
Even in the military, people are nowadays more sensitive to the cultural mores of the societies that they meet. We have made progress in some areas, but we are still working on having it all. Eventually, we'll get close to it.


As for being nice, yeah, nice and wonderful people don't really advertise their qualities. I personally don't do that myself. If a woman fails to see the real me, that's just her loss, I guess.
 fire_hot_ouch1
Joined: 10/3/2007
Msg: 184
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 3:59:37 AM
Capitalsim was brought into the home and into the marriage bed.
If you cant see how that works - I ponder for you.
 GoneSailinBabe
Joined: 7/6/2008
Msg: 185
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 5:01:10 AM
Chivalry is alive.
My sons are chivalrous.
They are admirable, strong and pure hearted men.
They adore their women, they respect women as a gender, and they behave as virtuous and strong males.

So I know that chivalry is not in the past. They are 21 and 23.
They make the choice - how to behave. And they know it. They're aware of it. They always have been.

If you want men to be men, raise men.
If you want mutts from Hell - raise brats, who scoff, are disrespectful and uncaring of their mother's as women.

My sons knew the sacrifices I made to raise them, they knew the life I lived as a single mother to very young little boys after their father had an affair.

They watched, they learned, they grew - and they vowed to never be such a man of so little morals or ethics or values.

And they aren't.

Being a worthy and good man is a CHOICE.
It's a choice to live life that way.
It's a desire to not just SAY that you're a good man, but to truly behave like one.

Some talk a really good talk.
But....when it comes down to it....they have a shitty job, they have a few too many drinks, they get drunk and they drive, they get in trouble in court, one thing leads to another....

And suddenly - the talk isn't matching the walk.

Actions speak louder than all the sweet whispered endearments ever warming an ear.

Are there any REAL men?
Haven't met one yet.
But I've raised two.
My contribution to the future.
 scretluvr
Joined: 5/7/2006
Msg: 186
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 6:19:11 AM
It seems somewhere women have lowered their standards and requirements! If a girl has a great dad(as I have) he teaches her what is acceptable behavior from another man and what is not. There is someone for everyone. Women(especially young women) need to focus on a solid foundation on their own. Refrain from giving up one of the best parts of themselves to someone whose less than a QUALITY MAN! We as women set the bar. It's amazing what a GOOD MAN will do for a GOOD WOMAN(an vicey vercy as my grandma use to say R.I.P)
 JSlade58
Joined: 9/11/2008
Msg: 187
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 6:44:50 AM

Keywords here are honor, respect, courage, honesty and justice. How could women have ruined common decency just by objecting to a couple of doors being opened? Give me a break. As human beings we should all aspire to such behaviour.

When women want to act like women, i will treat them as such. Until that time, they can open their own doors(unless their hands are broken) and slide out their own chair at the table. Equality is what they want,equality is what they get.
 wildcat99
Joined: 8/28/2007
Msg: 188
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 7:15:40 AM

When women want to act like women, i will treat them as such. Until that time, they can open their own doors(unless their hands are broken) and slide out their own chair at the table. Equality is what they want,equality is what they get.


So equality means no honour, honesty or respect? And I don't mean opening doors or holding seats. Those are just common courtesies that both men and women should expect and do for each other. I always open doors for others, men and women, and I have yet to be reprimanded for it or seen anyone else do so.

Good post gonessailing. But I do disagree that there are no real men left. Some men still employ honor and respect in their own lives regardless of all this male bellyaching and bashing.
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 189
"REAL" 'good person" vs. "fake" chivalry? ??
Posted: 11/14/2008 8:22:40 AM
post # 183:

"WE do tend to view chivalry of the past through rose tinted glasses.

That chivalrous man of days of yore opened your doors and is a perfect gentleman with a lady.
But then he also went and beat his slaves; would go "be with the boys" by shooting a helpless animal for sport not food or burned and pillaged other kingdoms (even killing children) because his King said so.

So he may not open your doors, but at least he does not beat his slaves.
"Being with the boys" for him only means watching football on a widescreen.
When he is sent to foreign lands, it is usually as a business trip.
Even in the military, people are nowadays more sensitive to the cultural mores of the societies that they meet. We have made progress in some areas, but we are still working on having it all. Eventually, we'll get close to it."

yes, Bengal Blue (post # 183) is right on, sort of what I tried to say before.. :)

"chivalry" was and IS, often VERY SUPERFICIAL..

be 'polite' in public, then go home and beat your wife & kids etc..

Or, e.g. go to church and act like some 'perfect Christian' to impress other people.

then be a total HYPOCRITE and lie, cheat & steal in business to get ahead, etc

cheat on your spouse "secretly"...be a petty, hateful,. vindictive & jealous pr*ck, etc., etc.

I understand that Adolf Hitler was a very charming, "chivalrous" man to women & children (welll at least non-Jewish, or "aryan" ones..) he was reputed to be very kind to children & animals.

rather than the SUPERFICIAL "show" of chivalry, I'd rather a person be a GENUINELY good person.

MANY of those "Southern Gentlemen" you reminisce so fondly about also donned KKK hoods & robes at night and cowardly killed and tormeented people for being the "wrong race". ..etc.. Medgar Evers was no doubt murdered by "southern gentlemen"

keep your fake chivalry and try being an ACTUAL "good person"..
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 190
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 8:29:29 AM

What ever happened to committment and chivalry?

I found both in one person. Well, he found me. HEY, thinking about that, I have both "qualities" in quite a few people. My son, my step-father, my friends, etc. Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe I get returned what I offer? I think it definitely works both ways and if I'm committed/faithful/loyal/etc., it's almost always returned. I also think chivalry is the most fun we can have with another person ~ do nice things for no reason and it's amazing what you get back. Whether it's a heartfelt thank you or a little surprise for no reason ~ it's all good when it happens. (And NO, I don't think these things apply only to romantic involvements ~ they apply to anyone/anything that is truly worth having in one's life.) JMO
 ValentinoScaramanga
Joined: 11/6/2008
Msg: 191
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 8:43:18 AM
I used to be a very honourable man, very chivalrous and had a reputation for that, a pre 'Two Face' Harvey Dent of sorts

I was the guy everyone counted on, 'Mr Dependable', a really 'nice guy'

But unfortunately, after a sequence of catastrophes in my personal life which resulted in absolute ruin I soon realised that there is simply no room for those qualities in this dishonourable world and progressively became the lost cause I am today.

It was all nothing more than an excursion into oblivion and not one of my previous qualities was forced or contrived, they were real, they were part of me, perhaps they're still in there somewhere rattling around in what's left of my soul.

Although I seriously doubt it.

I am 'Two Face' and there is simply no coming back.

I certainly wish the very best of luck to all those chivalrous fellows out there and I hope that fate is far kinder to you than it was I

There is no **stard greater than a good guy turned bad.
 BryWithAYFromCA
Joined: 7/2/2008
Msg: 192
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 9:02:58 AM
Of course it exists, but when done properly it does not call attention to itself. Your "knight" will not be wearing shining armor, but you self-centered, cheating, or closet gay husband might.

If you demand it from a someone, you do not deserve it.

If you expect to live by it, expect to be hurt, taken advantage of, and be prepared to punish those who do harm.

Watch for people who treat themselves, you and others high and low with respect and you may see it.

But what the heck do I know?

Bry
 TennKan
Joined: 11/4/2008
Msg: 193
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 2:31:57 PM
I must admit, after reading a couple of post here , I am amazed.


That chivalrous man of days of yore opened your doors and is a perfect gentleman with a lady.
But then he also went and beat his slaves; would go "be with the boys" by shooting a helpless animal for sport not food or burned and pillaged other kingdoms (even killing children) because his King said so.



Chivalry is something is learned from your elders while growing up, so it was obvious they valued this trait. None of my ancestors, although southern, ever owned slaves. In fact most were sharecroppers, very small farmers or military. So no, never beat their slaves.

I assume you are referring to hunting in this ridiculous statement. Not even sure I want to comment on that lame remark.

Burned and pillaged other kingdoms. Um, yes, it is called war. Try reading the newspaper, it happens. Some are necessary, such as ww2.


MANY of those "Southern Gentlemen" you reminisce so fondly about also donned KKK hoods & robes at night and cowardly killed and tormeented people for being the "wrong race". ..etc.. Medgar Evers was no doubt murdered by "southern gentlemen"


I am a southern man living in the Midwest. Obvious by the name I use? I know alot of southern gentlemen and ladies, none of which ever condoned the KKK or any other hate group. Never heard of any of my ancestors being in one either, I imagine besides being to busy working, they did not live with hate. I find it to be a poor generalization to make such a statement. The men that killed Medgar Evers, were probably southern, very doubtful they were gentlemen.


be 'polite' in public, then go home and beat your wife & kids etc..
Or, e.g. go to church and act like some 'perfect Christian' to impress other people.
then be a total HYPOCRITE and lie, cheat & steal in business to get ahead, etc
cheat on your spouse "secretly"...be a petty, hateful,. vindictive & jealous pr*ck, etc., etc.


Still a southern gentleman who believes in chivalry, and not guilty to the above statements.


keep your fake chivalry and try being an ACTUAL "good person"..


If your were actually a good person, you might actually be acting with chivalry and not even realizing it. BUT how you can claim to be an ACTUAL “good person, and still spew such remarks is beyond me. Perhaps a little quite time in rediscovering the meaning of the definitions might help. Just saying….
 yourstillhere
Joined: 7/30/2008
Msg: 194
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 2:52:35 PM
I always make sure to hold her head down before I close the trunk lid, so you can just call me Mr Chivalry.
 pirateheaven
Joined: 5/11/2008
Msg: 195
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 3:45:48 PM
OP ---

I have neck ties older than you.

I was there when chivalry died and I can tell you who killed it. It was in the mid sixties. Some radical feminists hijacked the womans movement. They were experts at men bashing and blamed them for all the evil in the world, past, present and future. Unfortunately the "women" in general were fairly quiet and the radicals prevailed.

Standards of conduct plummeted and marriage became marginalized. Couples began living together and commitment was lessened. The 60's and 70's were weird times, and if you were not there, you wouldn't believe it.

Then came legalized abortion, and since then over 45 million babies were aborted and men had NO rights at all to stop it. The family unit fragmented.

Since then the radical feminists turned their guns on stay at home moms trying to make them feel inferior to women who work out of the home. Not having at least one full time parent has led to some unintended consequences.

Short history lesson.
 SouthernWay
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 196
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 11:34:52 PM

Most women unless they are ready to marry - find it boring unless it is johnny depp being chivalrous. And an awful lot of women are doing the "we grew apart" thing, and grabbing the house and kids, leaving the knight in shining armor hocking his armor to cover child support.


I would have to agree with you jumpypants; most women today are all about what they can accomplish in life and it doesn't matter how many men they have to walk or stomp on to get to that. Most women today don't know a good man when one falls out of the sky on their face. Or even what they truly want out of life; I mean, the media shoves all of this s**t down their throat at an early age and then it is reiterated with their mothers going out cheating on their fathers, or divorcing them for no good reason, or just being the way that they are today (thinking that they don‘t have to suffer any consequences for their actions; believe me I see it everyday, everywhere I go). This then ruins any and all chances of the "old school" women to find and convince these few and far between men that they really are the real thing and that they will do anything and everything for them just to make them happy with life; that they are here for the long haul, no matter what happens; that they are there to help through every obstacle that life may throw their way, no matter how small or large.

Although I do not think that women would have to be reduced to being marked as property as was in the past; maybe if the old values were established back with the new generation things would change, but that would mean that all of the “rigid” women of today would have to relearn what it means to be an actual woman and would have to honor and respect their man (like that will happen).

I was raised in such a way that you respected your elders, were kind to all the people you met, never talked back to your parents unless you wanted to pick your teeth up off the ground (hell for that matter never talk back to any one in your family), always used your manners, and if you loved someone, show them everyday, in whatever little way that you could. And in that regard, you would treat the one that you loved with the utmost care, striving to ensure their happiness; because within their happiness, you find yours and even though arguments are inevitable, you always stay by their side; through the arguments and through life. I was taught that if you did all of those things, then you would find happiness and a better understanding of life.
 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 197
REAL 'good person vs. fake chivalry? ??
Posted: 11/15/2008 1:29:04 AM
Complete Man
You have made some pretty BROAD statements concerning a great deal of different types.
I for one was married to a True southern gentlemen. He was not just a church-goer, but a true Christian. He lived everyday of his life since being saved as one looking for the appearing of our Lord. I never in all the years I knew him Ever heard him say anything stronger than "dag-nabit" even in the heat of our arguments. He was not a wimp either. Christianity for one is not for wimps> it is easy to "go with the flow". However back on the subject at hand. My husband spent 11 years in the Airforce, played AAA Baseball, was Union President 3 terms for a local, and national Company
( 2400 employees locally), worked on many charities and a member of the board on many things locally and nationally.
He was as stubborn as the day is long with what he believed in..but open.. and ever learning. I respected him more than I could ever say, and even had I not been fortunate enough to be his wife, I would have still thought he was one of the finest men ever lived. He treated not only his wife and children with respect, but never even considered allowing a lady ( female) to open a door...always used yes sir, no sir........and give his seat to his elders or a woman when the circumstance warranted it. ..... allowed older couples ahead of him in line .......AND he didn't stop to ask their pedigree or if they were " loose" or not. WHEN WE HAD GUESTS IN OUR HOME..IT WAS AlWAYS Mi Casa, Su Casa...... and welcome to anything he owned except his wife.......Just basic common decency from a up-bringing he clung to. He would never have allowed a woman to pay for a meal in his presence.even if it meant he would have less than 15 cents for the rest of the week. My son is a lot like him..........and your age.....an E-8 in the Army......... and knows the
differnce between a male and a man. I could go on and on...............because chivalry is NOT dead.............just being overshadowed by those that don't have the basic idea .
To put others first, especially your lady..............is not a weakness , but a strength that few learn these days. I have seen so many children call their parents by their first name, stand up and cuss them, etc. My son as old as he is, if he ever even considered either.among other things...............I would lay him out. I am closer to my son-law's and daughter-law's than most people are their own children.
Do I saint him because he is dead.................no really just the true way he was. For me he had a magic about him........a true chivalry and I was proud and STill am to be his wife .
 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 198
REAL 'good person vs. fake chivalry? ??
Posted: 11/15/2008 1:42:36 AM
AND also.he was from the DEEP south, but we had many black friends both in the community and in our home. His family as far as either of us knew were never involved in the KKK..................
Never cheated on his taxes and was inclined to pay more on the the plus side. He believed that this country, .......reguardless of whether his choice for elected leaders or not......was just as much his responsibilty to uphold as anyone. To cheat in anyway is to cheat the man in the mirror. He was not perfect in any way............but he really did believe in death before dishonor, etc...all of the things that in my opinion makes a man a real man. And he was a good man.
Do we judge all Germans by Hitler ? No............All Japs...by Pearl Harbour...........or all Vietnamese by the Viet Cong............all yankees by slave traders................on and on.
I was involved in lots of childrens programs in innner city. People respond to how you treat them.........and I prefer to treat each of them as I want to be treated........makes me sleep well at night..........and maybe , just maybe make a difference.

I was always the quieter one and more shy while he was really outgoing............but he referred to me as the "wind beneath his wings" and until I see GLORY........I will never know a greater honor than being his wife.
 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 199
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/15/2008 8:39:25 AM
GoneSailinBabe


I relate to you so much on the upbringing of your sons. My late husband was not the father of my chldren, but an ex-husband that to this day has not figured out how to be a man. Still a two throwing fits and wondering why he don't always get his way.
Long before my late husband came into the picture, .........I installed in my children common decency and respect. My wonderful husband just re-inforced those values.
I am amazed sometimes myself at my children..........and often so proud it literally brings tears to my eyes. In between husband's, I had a rough row to hoe raising them and still trying to be a full- time mom. I put my own career on hold to work as a day-care teacher so I was able to have them with me. I also raised two step-children...that if I did not tell you which were mine by birth..you would not know.
They are all respectful, whole, successful. Not too long ago I mentioned how I was so proud of all they have accomplished and how proud I am of them..........they far excel me in any economic stature, and are quite self confident. My oldest daughter( not by birth) said " Mom, we have all talked about this for years........we know what other kids were allowed to do, how they dissed their parents, never had to do the chores, the respect we were taught for others, etc. We know how easy it would be for you to have just let us have our own way........ we see it in our own children.... and now know that it hurts to correct them sometimes...........it takes guts and love to be a real parent....on and on.
I applaud you for the sacrifices you made "Gonesailinbabe" ............ the rewards of seeing such fine young men as you have kinda makes all those sacrifices dim now.
The hand that rocks the cradle really does rule the world...........and I wish more would attend to that, than excelling in carreers at the EXSPENSE" of their children.
I will probably get battered here for the " career" thing...... but I believe what I believe.
 Thalion94518
Joined: 8/13/2008
Msg: 200
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What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/15/2008 8:46:21 AM
Fascinating topic and discussion. It's really given me a whole new perspective on how other people view something i've been mulling over for quite some time.

I may be in the minority, but I think what happened isn't that women changed... it's that men have changed.

I see in today's society an increase in the attitude of "what's in it for me?"

I think that in the attitude lays what happened to the concept of chivalry.

A lot of responses to the original poster go on and decry the fact that chivalry isn't appreciated... that men are taken advantage of... basically that being chivalrous (however one may define it) doesn't have "a positive return on investment."

Taking being "nice" or "polite" or whatever you want to call it, is doomed to failure. Women can sense it. That's why "nice guys finish last". It's not because men are doing it for themselves... it's because they expect something in return for it. It's niceness born out of weakness, not strength.

If you want to exhibit chivalrous behavior, do it for yourself... NOT for others. Do it because you feel it is the proper code of conduct for yourself, not because society expects it or to in order to be looked upon favorably by others.

I've chosen to live by the credo that it doesn't really matter whom I impress. I do try to live by the virtues outlined earlier of courage, mercy, justice, generosity, faith, nobility, and hope... not for others, but because that is the way I choose to live my life. It matters not if women "appreciate" it or not. It's all about being true to oneself.
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