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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 176 | |
| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 12:35:04 AM | "One of marihuana's greatest advantages as a medicine is its remarkable safety. It has little effect on major physiological functions. There is no known case of a lethal overdose; Marihuana is also far less addictive and far less subject to abuse than many drugs now used as muscle relaxants, hypnotics, and analgesics. The ostensible indifference of physicians should no longer be used as a justification for keeping this medicine in the shadows."
-Journal of the American Medical Association, June 21, 1995. Commentary. p. 1874-1875. | |
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 8:38:46 AM |
why shouldn't anyone be allowed set up shop in Amsterdam or Madagascar and sell heroin, coke or kiddie porn?
Where is the thought process in comparing KIDDIE PORN to smoking a spliff. I'm also willing to wager that the majority of people on here that do partake in puffing a jib, have never broken into someones house or stolen money from their family to support their supposed habit. I've seen many people hooked on coke and heroin, ITS NOT A PRETTY SIGHT. They lie, steal, and cheat people to get their fix for a day. They have no money cause it went up their nose, no family anymore cause they cant be trusted(thats pretty sad when you cant even get your own famly's trust and support anymore). And, if they do have a marriage, it goes to shambles cause they CANT deal with it anymore either.
Certain things in moderation is fine...even the doctors say 1 beer a day is good for you. Breathing the air like we do is worse than smoking a spliff a day. Remember this everytime you talk on a cell phone or a cordlees phone... in 20 years your gonna have a brain tumor from the radiation a phone can generate. Better make those illegal too. | |
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 10:21:42 AM | ChronicTom:
There is no limit to the types of things that this is applicable to. If it happens in another country, then it is the jurisdiction of that country. No other country has the right to demand that they change it. The might have the strength of arms or other clout that allows them to, but it is never right. If it ever does become 'right' I would hope that issues like murder, rapes, molestations, abductions, torture, slavery and genocide were among the more impotant ones that would be addressed.
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you and I differ on this. I think there is a limit where world leaders step in and demand changes take place. You cannot "hope" that other sovereign nations will stop murder, torture and genocide. I am one of the people that demand that it stop. With force if necessary. Marijuana is not one of the trigger issues for me. But there are some.
Pats fan : I'm not suggesting that Marijuana use is tantamount to other drug use of criminal in other senses. I'm asking chronic tom about the ability for one country's citizens to export a legal product into another country where it is illegal. I think if we use sovereignty as a defense, we could justify the import of nearly anything.
In my world a sovereign government must enforce some common laws of humanity. I was hoping we could agree to this before working back into the issue of marijuana purchased through the internet. If you are willing to allow anything in the same of sovereignty I have no counterpoint - except to say that I hope you do not ever take power anywhere.
Can all of us agree that, in terms of purely medicinal use, marijuana has moderate to good analgesic effects with very limited side effects for short terms users? Long term is another story. I think there is enough clinical evidence to support short term use as a pain reliever. It's certainly an intoxicant which should not be used while driving or working. I would support prescriptions for THC on medical grounds. | |
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 10:54:28 AM |
you and I differ on this. I think there is a limit where world leaders step in and demand changes take place. You cannot "hope" that other sovereign nations will stop murder, torture and genocide. I am one of the people that demand that it stop. With force if necessary. Marijuana is not one of the trigger issues for me. But there are some.
let me just quote part of that again.
With force if necessary.
So what your saying is that if you had the power, everyone would life the way you think it should be lived or die. Oh wait that's going to an extreme, I'll try not to jump to conclusions. they will live life the way you think it should even if you have to force them too. What methods of force were you planning on using? Threat of death? Torture?
Your right, you and I differ greatly. | |
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 11:04:29 AM | Pats fan : I'm not suggesting that Marijuana use is tantamount to other drug use of criminal in other senses. I'm asking chronic tom about the ability for one country's citizens to export a legal product into another country where it is illegal. I think if we use sovereignty as a defense, we could justify the import of nearly anything.
Here is why SOVERINIGY is being lost.
The issue of soveringity comes not from the fact that something which the US finds illegal crossed over to their boarder.
The issue of soverignity comes from the fact that the US wants to extradite those who participate in what is tolertated in Vancouver by both the citizens and even the police. The current case involves Marc Emery and his gang for the selling of marijuana seeds which has been done for about 10years now in the same place (over the counter) and has been tolerated for about 10 years now by the Vancouver police.--this marijuana seeds store was also then raded due to the US.-the same store which again for 10 years has been left alone.
Also, Vancouver has marijuana coffeshops where marijuana can be smoked but not bought.-just so you get a sence of how marijuana is viewed in this city by the public and police.
Therefore our Canadian citizens like Marc Emery if extradited will be tried under a much much harsher US penalty system. You don't see a problem with that? That is like Saudi Arabia rading some gay porn store in Canada because some of the gay material from that store ended up in Saudi Arabia (if its illegal there, i dont know), then wanting to extradite a Canadian citizen to Saudi Arabia-where of course the sentence would be inhumane-as are the sentances for marijuana offences in the US.
Therefore if the US finds a problem with our laws- in this case tolertation of marijuana, then they CAN NOT (but want to) impose their laws on our citizens. That is a loss of soveringity.
If they have a problem with it then the only thing they can do is A) do a better job at border control
B) Ask our governemnt to trie that citizens in our country if in fact what he is going is illegal by Canadian law. In this case it is "tolerated", just like marijuana is tollerated in Holland. Therefore our citizens should not only not be extradited, but not even charged by Canadian law. The marijuana store was open for about 10 years now. If Canada had a problem with it they would have done something by now.
The US thinks everyone should have the same ideology as they do, and if someone doesn't they attack, one way or the other. | |
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 11:07:32 AM | I'm glad you were around when Hitler invaded Poland. When Stalin let the jews starve. Happy you're not in charge of Rwanda or Bosnia or cambodia. You are blessed with the good fortune to be born into a free society and you care so little about human rights that anyone who does is forcing their opinion on others?
Clearly there are times when force is necessary. As I said in earlier posts, marijuana enforcement is hardly that severe a crime and not a crime against humanity. I did not say that everyone must live my way or face any consequences. I was trying to have you agree that sovereignty alone is not cause for dismissing any and all crimes.
maybe you think it is.  | |
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 11:15:49 AM | What does Rwanda have to do with anything? Other then the fact that the US let the genocide take place while concerning themselves with a petty crime like marijuana use.
I only use the sovereignty argument to protect myself from being tried in another country for something which is legal, tolerated, or where I will get a much much lesser sentence for doing it-as long as I am doing this in my own country of course.
How am I using sovereignty to dismiss a crime? It's not a crime in this case, and even if it is crime in Canada the US has no business telling our government to enforce it, let alone trying to punish our citizens by the US's harsh laws-which is what they want to do by extraditing our citizens. And yes, US marijuana laws are extremely harsh compared to our laws and the marijuana laws of most European countries-but the concern about US laws should only be when one is in their country, and not when one is in their own!
I can't make it any clearer then that.
As far a human rights, well I won't even go into the issue discussing a country with one of the worst human rights policies in the world, both at home and abroard. Therfore something like legalized marijuana therefore won't even be an issue any time soon. But enough about the US. I believe this a Canadian forum section.
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 11:18:39 AM | Demanding countries to stop murder, torture and genocide is good...we agree on this point. And we'll probably agree on many more...except the Mary Jane issue.
Demanding they can cannabis is ludicrous.
I'm asking chronic tom about the ability for one country's citizens to export a legal product into another country where it is illegal.
If countries like the one I live in want deem doobage bad, then they should monitor all the imports we get and bust the people in this country for having them shipped to this country. Its not up to Canada(in this instance) to keep track of every other countries laws. Common laws of huminity is one thing. The smoking of ganja, though, is not a common law of humanity. Which you did say was not a trigger issue anyway.
Unfortunately there are members of our government(yes I am aware my gov is not perfect. Somethings I support, other things I dont) that are all too lazy to go about it the import way. That would require way too much work on their part, so the easy way out is pressure the Canadians to make the bust. Thats not cool.
It's certainly an intoxicant which should not be used while driving or working.
Good call, just as the legal beagal alcohol should not be used while driving or working either.
As far as taking power anywhere....I will. But, because people are afraid of reality, change for the better not for the billionaires wallet, and the truth, I'm sure I will be assinated and will be held up as one of the greatest men in history,and my face carved into Mt Rushmore. Remember in ten years I AM eligible for presidency. PatsFAN for president in 2016
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 11:19:56 AM | No, I don't, but I also see no difference in you using force to dictate the way people live and in someone else doing it. The point you seem to miss is that using force (your word) to people using force is not solving anything. In each of the examples you cited, the people responisble for those happens said the same thing your saying. Somebody is oppressing us using force. Therfore I will take over (by force if necessary and stop it from happening to my people, and then turn around and use force to keep their people in line and try to spread the sphere of their control. Untiol some other larger force comes along and starts the whole cycle over again.
Not once did I say that crimes should be dismissed, those once again are your words, I said they should be dealt with by their own country. If the government of that country is part of the problem, then the people of that country are the ones who should stand up for themselves, like they have in every democratic country now in existence. | |
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 3:55:14 PM | keyser:
What does Rwanda have to do with anything? Other then the fact that the US let the genocide take place while concerning themselves with a petty crime like marijuana use.
The fact is that YOU let it take place. the US was trying to intervene and even sent in troops to stop it while the world sat around and smoked pot.
As far a human rights, well I won't even go into the issue discussing a country with one of the worst human rights policies in the world, both at home and abroard
To Suggest that the country with one of the most generous and extensive history of helping others has a poor human rights record is ludacrous. Without the retail trade, the cash supports of the G7 and the goodwill of the American people the vast majority of the third world would be in dire straights. To suggest otherwise is ignorant. You ignore dictators all over the world on the grounds of sovereign rule and attack a democratically elected government with a long history of benevolence. That's just plain stupid.
Believe i'm against it all. I pay an incredible sum in taxes so that we can afford to give foreign aid to countries that curse our existance. If it weren't for the humanity if the hearts of all americans, I'm certain we would have found casue long ago to stop subsidizing all these countries. the fact is that they would starve, die of poor sanitation, disease, AIDS or ignorance. I'm tired of these insideous attacks bythe undereducated. Do the F***ing research before you insult the US.
You don't know much about US marijauna law either apparently. What do you think this is - singapore? Oh wait - do they have the worst human rights record in history too? Well they are a sovereign nation! I guess they have every right to cane your a$$. Do you have problems with Singapore who will sentence you to death by hanging for being a marijuana man? Nope - that's their right! Why should any one in the US appeal to the singapore government for leniency? It's their sovereign right and we'd score lower on both the foreign interference scale and the human rights scale for even suggesting such a change.
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 4:26:02 PM | hey thre yank
that cold country north of ya is workin on it a hell of a lot more than you folk
we even got gays LEGALY MARRIED
down there you folk give out 20 years for one joint
up here we let em go free with kilos of it
dont you wish u was up here
IN THE TRUE, NORTH , STRONG, AND FREE!!
just gotta say sure glad we aint got your attitude
CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG
whats your free injection sites like
i forgot you aint got any we does
sorry to bash ya yanks but your laws SUCK
xavier . | |
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 4:33:57 PM | | I'm a little wary of any authority, especially governments (who are supposed to act in our best interests) who say 'you have to act responsibility', then majorily impede our ability to do so. They should stop treating adults like little children. | |
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 5:21:05 PM | For consideration and discussion on THIS thread.
it is with no small amount of hesitancy that I suggest it may be time to knock a few knights off of their horses. A story is told of the great architect Frank Lloyd Wright. It seems that Wright was awarded the challenge of designing the Imperial Hotel in Tokyo, Japan, one of the most earthquake-prone cities in the entire world. Wright's initial investigation showed that a solid foundation could feasibly be "floated" on a sixty-foot layer of soft mud underlying the hotel, which in turn would supply a shock-absorbing but solid support for the mammoth building. Not long after completion, the hotel withstood Tokyo’s worst earthquake in fifty-two years while other buildings collapsed in ruins around it. [5]
Perhaps the moral of the story is as obvious as it appears- foundations matter. A weak foundation undergirding a structure will ultimately negate or flaw the function of that edifice.
Thee demolition companies went bankrupt trying to dismantle the Imperial Hotel
And so it is with the question posed,
The very foundation, read ‘reasons for’ the plant to *outlawed* are the very reasons marijuana is required to be extra-legal! Read *be brought out side of law*
Until this subtle and crucial distinction is made all other argument is fruitless!
When an argument is based on a false premise, if it is illogical to begin with, then no matter how many so-called statistical and practical applications you bring up to flesh out your argument, you will not be able to defend the argument because it is flawed in its very formulation | |
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 6:33:02 PM |
we even got gays LEGALY MARRIED
I presume that I'm the "yank " in question. You dont' hear that term often in the Northen States although you do at times in southern states still bitter about the outcome of the civil war. I also presume you feel the establishment of gay marriage provisions are true progress. I would be more impressed with your countries participation in reducing disease, famine and helping to improve standards of living in the third world. But you may take pride in whatever you'd like.
In the states we do not give folk 20 years for one joint. In fact a conviction general results in an adjornment with consideration of dismissal (ACD) . I don't know where the 20 year figure comes from. It is a misdimeanor except if you are driving under the influence or kill someone.
I don't know what a free injection site is. If it is a medical site, there are free clinics for the poor. Most others have health insurance which we pay for. You pay for it too but they call it taxes.
The Frank Lloyd Wright analogy lost me completely. I read it twice but I think that our defintions of foundation are based on differing legal systems. Your claim that a classification of this plant is without foundation is bogus. We can and do classify anything that is identified as a drug. We also classify combustables and poisons. We have Ld50 levels for nearly everything but I dont' know if you use these systems . | |
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 6:43:42 PM | | yeah anyways weed is fairly harmless, no worse than alcohol and is a waste of our tax money to enforce its regulation. | |
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| Should marijuana be legalized....
Posted: 8/1/2005 7:16:26 PM | Pathetic that innocent people have been doing time for something as arbitrary and nefarious as that!
agree although the injection of (pun intended) innocent is to be questioned | |
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