| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/9/2007 8:00:30 PM | Goat
yet he has broken the record, but being under the suspect of using drugs. and he is getting all this praise for breaking the record? yet ben johnson got his medals, digity stripped?
I guess in professional sports its ok to use steroids? | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/9/2007 8:22:21 PM | "I say he is a Hero, no doubt about it"
Then you have to reassess your definition of "hero." | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/9/2007 8:27:31 PM | Ben Johnson failed a drug test...then, after serving his two-year suspension, raced again and failed ANOTHER drug test.
Bonds has never failed a drug test and you can bet your bottom dollar, with Bud Selig's opinion of the man, that Bonds has been tested the maximum allotted amount (whatever that might be), based on the MLB CBA.
The message, if there is one, is not that it's ok to use steroids, but rather ...DON'T GET CAUGHT!
Say what you will about Bonds, but until he pees positive, you cannot justifiably compare him to Ben Johnson. Compare Bonds to Carl Lewis, if you like. That would make more sense. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 54 | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/9/2007 9:40:15 PM | | @ muvee--i don't know but why not let them all use steroids? barry bonds never needed anything to make him a top 10 player of all-time. but who's to say if his taking of the clear and the cream makes his accompishments any less? | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/10/2007 1:52:06 PM | Just my two cents on this whole thing.
Does performance enhancing drugs help with strength. Yes. There is no doubt about it.
Does performance enhancing drugs help you hit a 90 MPH fastball or a 80 mph curve? Nope.
Fact of the matter is that Bonds did something amazing, once in a lifetime feat. And we have an opportunity to see it twice with A-ROD. All I have to say is congratulations to Bonds. Great job.
There was a rumor going around the pitchers were throwing Hank Aaron batting practice balls as he got closer to the record. Maybe we should disqualify him too.
Oh, and there are other things you could put an asterisk next to his name for. Increased number of games per season would be one of them too. | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/11/2007 4:57:01 PM | @ island jokester
Bonds has been hitting like this his whole career.
........NO he hasn't!!.....he hit about 296 homers in his 1st 10 years!
Has he improved over time? Yes. But that's a sign of maturity.
......you've gotta be outta your mind!..........as you age, your strength naturally diminishes as a result of reduced muscle mass especially in the 40's.....here is a man who has been hitting more homers in his 40's (while puffed up like the Michelin tire man) than he was in his late 20's while he was lean and in shape and looked more like A-rod!
recognizing the good pitches to hit, then using his god-given talent to hit them.
......no one disputes that he doesn't have talent but then why do you think his ex-trainer is now sitting in jail for refusing to testify!...........lets not be totally naive! | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/11/2007 5:21:10 PM | Goat-
based on his less than friendly demeanor and antisocial behavior as well as his obvious use of steroids...anyone on the forum who doesn't compete in sport doesn't understand the effects of steroids......... he should not be hitting more homeruns now then when he was in his prime...unless he is taking steroids ,testosterone , HGH ,insulin or anything else they take to increase strength ...as in law, ignorance is not an excuse...no pro athlete would take anything creams ,shots or pills without knowing exactly what they are!look at his facial features as well as his build it is obvious he has abused steroids for an extended period of time....those of you who say it takes talent to hit make a valid point but most pros can hit, it takes increased strength and bat speed to hit it out of the park..which performance enhancing drugs allow you to do.. | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/11/2007 6:39:28 PM | "........NO he hasn't!!.....he hit about 296 homers in his 1st 10 years!"
let me re-phrase that....he's been hitting like this ever since he got to the West Coast...so...for the better part of his career.
"here is a man who has been hitting more homers in his 40's (while puffed up like the Michelin tire man) than he was in his late 20's while he was lean and in shape and looked more like A-rod!"
To steal a line from you...NO he hasn't!:
76 HR since his 40th birthday...142 from age 27-30.
if you're going to argue stats, at least know them
"as you age, your strength naturally diminishes as a result of reduced muscle mass especially in the 40's."
In the 40s, yes...and as I have PROVEN in Bonds's case with the stats supplied..., his home run tally has diminished since he turned 40. But what about from age 30 to 40, when Bonds hit the highest percentage of his home runs?
You can't tell me he should have been on the downside of his career throughout those years. To say (or imply) EVERYBODY'S body strength starts to diminish when they hit the big 30 is hogwash. Roger Clemons has posted virtually HALF of his 350+ wins (170 to be exact) since his 30th birthday and three of his six 20+ win seasons came AFTER the age of 35. Watch the Subaru Ironman later on this month. You know what the biggest division is? M34-39. AMAZING athletes. Chris Chelios turns what, 45 this year and is still a top-four defenceman for the Detroit Red Wings.
I could surf the net for days and find you countless examples of athletes who have not only improved, but improved DRAMATICALLY since the age of 30. Is it rare? Absolutely! But that's what makes them special.
Naive? back up the boat there junior. Like I have said time and time again in this thread sum1reel...I believe Bonds has taken 'roids, just as I believe that the vast majority of the pitchers throwing at him have, and just as I believe that your "slim and trim hero" A-Rod has.
No I'm not "out of my mind" or "naive". But if you think Barry Bonds's trainer is sitting in jail for refusing to testify based on the damage it would have done for Barry Bonds, then you're the naive one. That guy is sitting in the can because he stood less to lose PERSONALLY by keeping quiet than by talking. It had NOTHING to do with his allegiance to Barry Bonds, as you imply. Give me a break. Do you think Bonds took him aside and said "listen, bite the bullet, do some time and when you get out, I'll make it worth your while"? If you honestly believe that, you've been watching too many episodes of the Sopranos. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 60 | |
| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/11/2007 7:18:50 PM | The media has been biased and unfair with Barry Bonds.
The media distorts to sell papers and attract attention to their various news agency's.
The media have shown inequalities to the white players who have been suspected of using steriods.
Big Mac did not face the crap Mr. Bonds has. MaGuire had not endured a fraction of the scrunity that Bonds has recieved.
And Palmeiro who, what about him?
Racism is so present in Sports even today. Sad really. Bonds has accomplished something that is truly amazing. Of course he is a hero. Anyone who thinks race is not part of the attack on Bonds is either ignorant on the subject or is conscioulsy making a choice to ignore.
Why have several other white players faced criticism? Has A Rod used roids? Why has he not faced heat from the media? He should be questioned as he had 100 more home runs than Barry did at this point in his career.
How bout another example...As IslandJokester pointed out...Mr. Rocket. Research Clemems. Have a gander at his pics from the nineties. He was not nearly as big as he is today at 45. Why is the media not questioning him at his age...shit that guy must be taking something..he's practically a senior...oh wait he's white. 
Bottom line here. BONDS have NEVER tested positive for drugs. Period.
I'd love to see Barry hit before he retires. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 62 | |
| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/11/2007 9:04:00 PM | he has said his record is not tainted.
he has never tested positive for drugs.
Yet you say he admitted to it.
Ok. the story i read said he took some type of enhancer, did not know it was steriods. At the time it was legal, with the new drug rules it is not. Yadda Yadda.
If Barry is guilty so is half of Major league Baseball | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 64 | |
| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/11/2007 10:04:52 PM | it is not about winning.
its called discussion and debate. If you do not like it stay out of the thread. | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/11/2007 10:32:03 PM | Barry Bonds admitted to using a cream and a clear that he claimed to have understood to be of all-natural content. THAT'S what Barry Bonds admitted to. Never once did he state "Yes, I knowingly took steroids."
In fact, quite the opposite. He emphatically denied such allegations and that is why the grand jury is now deliberating on possible perjury charges against him. They are trying to dig up enough proof that he knowingly took steroids and lied to them back in 2004. (At least that's how I understand it. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me.)
Now, do I honestly believe that he never thought those applications were nothing more than a new way to take steroids? No. I think he knew what he was taking and took it simply because, as the owner of BALCO stated, they were completely undetectable. That said, whether or not his denial of knowledge is a cop-out is not for you or me to judge. The grand jury will decide that. I'll say one thing though...it's sure taking them an awful long time to come up with proof that he lied. | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/11/2007 10:45:29 PM | | well maybe my logic is a little askew. but if you say i took this substance and it turns out to be a steroid are you not admitting to taking a steroid? as i posted a while back he may claim he didn't know what it was. and if he keeps telling himself that he might believe it. ......... and to the poster who says "its a debate" and then uses the term "yadda yadda", all i can say is, that is a very high level of discourse and i don't think i can engage. | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/12/2007 6:02:04 PM | Then I guess a debate is about wineing instead?? A debate does have a winner. They always score the presidential debates.
Telling someone to stay out of the thread is a personal attack.
Barry Bonds was not that good of a ball player till the time he allegedly started taking the steroids. Do the math. His records show very plainly that his batting average all of the sudden spiked.Not normal by any account. At the same time his physical appearance also changed. His head got bigger. This all leads to steroid use and it is my honest opinion that says he was cheating by using enhancing drugs.
Bonds is a Goat!! | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 68 | |
| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/12/2007 6:47:02 PM | ^^^comparing this discussion to an presidential election. ok
Barry hit more homeruns in his late before the media stirred this crap up. I think you need to do the math. | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/12/2007 8:45:15 PM | "Barry Bonds was not that good of a ball player till the time he allegedly started taking the steroids."
Pardon me???
Let's see...his alleged steroid use started in 2001 (73 HR year)
NL MVP in 1990, 1992, 1993, runner-up in 1991 and 2000
NL All-Star in 1990, 92-99
Yep, you're right. It's amazing he was even in the big leagues throughout the 90s with numbers like his | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/13/2007 6:24:47 PM | | LOL....i dont really mind if he used or not...either way hes good enought to make contact with the ball and slam them outta the park....steroids?..i dont think steroids help him time when to swing the bat lol.......he's still good no matter what | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/13/2007 9:17:17 PM | I just loved it when he said the "record" is not tainted!
Reminds me of Mark McGwire and his brilliant "I'm not here to talk about the past" performance.
But really, why are we even discussing this? It is absolutely irrelevant. Bonds had his moment in the sun and will now slowly fade away, to be remembered only when his name is brought up as a back story every time another doping scandal occurs. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 73 | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/14/2007 6:10:26 AM | read this, if you don't think most pro athletes use drugs your delusional, too much competition with too much money at stake with too small margins for who makes a few million and who is out of the game completely. baseball was just the last to catch on.
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459625 | |
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| Barry Bonds: Goat or hero?
Posted: 8/14/2007 6:28:44 PM | "Irrelevant to you but not to thousands of other Bonds fans. "
...who are far outnumbered by those who don't give a rat's ass about the guy. | |
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