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csod64
| | Joined: 6/21/2007
Msg: 76 | |
| | Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?Page 4 of 5 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) | | Yes. There are "Alpha Females". I don't have the time to read each post, but it is possible for strong male and female personalities to co-exist in the same house, workplace, and all places where men and women encounter each other on a daily basis. I don't know if I qualify as an "Alpha" or not. Yet I'm quite confident. I pose leadership characteristics. I know how to get things done. However, my personal life was a huge mess, once upon a time...I had to realize just exactly who I am and try to live life accordingly. Does it make me a ****? Only to the men and women who feel threatened by me. I'm not "domineering", but I can be abrasive if need be. Am I always so confident? Of course not. I can be vulnerable--but only when I feel comfortable with someone who I feel won't use it against me. | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/29/2007 1:36:00 PM | | Yes, they are called Amazonian Women. They kill the first-born male in the tribe. Breeding is dangerous. You have to go in quick, do the deed, and get out as fast as you can. | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/29/2007 2:12:46 PM | [[She will have more sex partners than most women but it doesn't come from a neediness or a need for a man's approval. It comes from something else. She just takes what she wants.]]
Well, shiver me timbers.....I guess that is ME :) Though I like the term Dominant female, as opposed to Alpha female, but I certainly can see the correlation. Strong women are just that....sometimes it's a gift...sometimes it's a curse...but in the end she is a survivor | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/29/2007 2:45:25 PM |
A leader's strength isn't something they harp on or tout. Not invisible but it's felt without having to spoken of. Their pride is the same. Quiet, understated, and their pride is in what they've been able to accomplish through those they lead. For their own accomplishments, they're usually more humble and not needing to take the credit.
That may or may not fit with anyone else's definition of an alpha of either gender, but that's what comes to mind for me.
That's right.
An alpha female is one also because she has earned it. You can't fight for it, it doesn't work that way. It's given to you by those around you through their respect.
It has nothing at all to do with being a biotch or backstabbing. There is a difference between earning the alpha position and just being an Alpha Bi*ch, though you may earn that moniker when the wannabes contrive to take you down a notch ;)
The main reason that an alpha woman and an alpha male would proably make a good couple is that each of them would have certain personality traits that would work well together. Because of the mutual lack of need to prove themselves "alpha", I believe that there would be fewer power struggles and more of a partnership than there would be if a male or female "alpha-wannabe" hooked up with a true male or female "alpha". | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/29/2007 3:42:56 PM | | You have to be strong to survive, especially some of the violence or obstacles some of us have endured. This doesn't really apply to the concept of "Alpha" given that's a scientific term, but rather intensity, power, leadership, and strength which are genuine are the qualities probably considered "Alpha" by the average individual. | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/29/2007 6:02:13 PM | To ItsMargo, Irreverent Lass and ladyc4:
I appreciate that my definition of an Alpha female could be wrong. That is why I started out trying to define an "Alpha", and see if everyone agreed or not. To me, an Alpha is an Alpha, and the differences between an Alpha male and an Alpha female are to do with gender, and how they handle power, and very little else. Also, I know women such as you have described. However, if they are what you describe as Alpha females, then my definition of an Alpha which I hypothesised would be incorrect. As such, a true Alpha male would be the same:
1) He would have such an innate sense of superiority that they do not lower themselves to attack other men.
2) He can sit quietly and just observe a room and without any effort be recognized.
3) He would be the office advocate.
4) He does not need to manipulate the lives of other people.
5) He is NOT about appearance, education or wealth.
If I consider such a person, then I have met such men, too. They are quiet, unassuming, always willing to help others out, not afraid to get insulted by others, and don't respond to insults. They don't manipulate others, are uninterested in the value of qualifications, high-paying jobs, or looks, in others or themselves.
As such, he would be your typical nice guy, working in a low-paying job that helps others, but gets him no social status, and doesn't look that great, because looks are unimportant to him.
But, in my experience in real life, he would be completely ignored, and would normally be treated as a second-class citizen.
That goes against my understanding of the concept of an Alpha male. He's the leader, not the helper.
I know a male and female on POF who fit your ideals. But from our correspondence, it is clear to me that neither is considered an Alpha male nor an Alpha female amongst any of their peers, or even their students.
Also, if you look at those traits, that goes against the OP's original post:
I have read a lot of the Alpha type profiles here in POF and some females that admit that they have strong personalities, like taking part in competitive sports, have high educations or are ‘professionally’ employed.
On reflection, I find that what the OP is describing is often called a high-flier, or a high-achiever, such as a partner in a law firm, or an investment banker. But they are not leaders, nor helpers. In my experience, having worked for quite a few females, they are extremely b*tchy, and will put down anyone who even could challenge their authority. My own mother is such a high flier. I am not expecting everyone to be like her, merely saying I recognise those qualities in others.
We live in a society that values the concept of "might is right". The people with the highest socio-economic status are regarded as the people with the highest social status of all. As we live in a competitive society, to get there, most people have to step on other people's toes to get there. If you don't, it takes a much higher degree of work to get there.
To achieve the aims of helping society, it isn't necessary to be such a high flier.
To support oneself, and not be interested in power or material gain, such aspirations are unnecessary, and counter-productive.
To achieve aspirational ideals in our society, it is easier to be closer to the bottom.
So to be at the top, normally means a loss of aspirational ideals.
That is why I originally contended that such a woman would be a b*tch. It's not my fault if our society sets women up to be nasty to succeed. It does this to men, as well.
However, as I said, I found that such women only look for the same because they have only achieved their aims in order to achieve a high social and material status. So they don't want to lower their status by being with a partner who is considered socially inferior. They also choose their friends on a similar basis.
But such friends and such partners inevitably cannot be trusted. They know their companionship is based on their status, and not on true values of love, honour, trust and compassion. So that lasts for a while, but eventually, when they person takes a fall, their friends and their love desert them. That is when they realise that all their status and achievements have not helped them get anywhere they really wanted to go.
Then they look for true friends and true partners, with true values. Where do they find them? Not at the top, but at the bottom. Those who can be at the top, and choose the bottom, because you don't need to try as hard there to be a decent person.
Friday night, I watched The Fisher King. Jeff Bridges plays such a high flyer. He goes into poverty, gets his old job back, but ends up becoming friends with a homeless guy, played by Robin Williams, and falling in love with a video store owner and beauty therapist, played by Mercedes Ruehl.
So, I contend that:
1) High achievers, in high school and in working life, tend to be extreme b*stards and b*tches.
2) Such people are Alphas as being seen similar to the Alphas in animal society.
3) The source of such behaviour is the competitive nature of our society, and its extreme focus on material gain and social power. | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/29/2007 6:19:08 PM | To me, an Alpha is an Alpha, and the differences between an Alpha male and an Alpha female are to do with gender, and how they handle power, and very little else. Also, I know women such as you have described. However, if they are what you describe as Alpha females, then my definition of an Alpha which I hypothesised would be incorrect. As such, a true Alpha male would be the same:
No, Alpha men behave quite differently. They are more about displaying power.
You can't paint anything to do with the genders with the same broad brush strokes. You know that doesn't work.
The alpha male supposedly describes a man with a degree of physical abilities and skills, ruthless, high on the social or corporate "food chain", a bit of a bully, focused and take no prisoners "type" that demands and gets subservience. He has generally gone a full frontal "assault" to obtain his position of power.
Quite different than what is described for an alpha female. Your original description was apt, but for a man, not for a woman.
I don't think it needs to be over-thought though because the descriptions are not all that scientific and require too much brainpower for me today. People are what they are. Ultimately it is how they all interact with me that I care about.
Wine. I'm going to have some wine. | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/30/2007 4:27:24 PM |
The alpha male supposedly describes a man with a degree of physical abilities and skills, ruthless, high on the social or corporate "food chain", a bit of a bully, focused and take no prisoners "type" that demands and gets subservience. He has generally gone a full frontal "assault" to obtain his position of power.
Quite different than what is described for an alpha female. Your original description was apt, but for a man, not for a woman. Sorry, Irreverent Lass. This has just been my experience. I admit that I haven't worked for hundreds of women. But they all seemed to be the same. I even had a supervisor that we used to call "The Fat Controller", off "Thomas the Tank Engine". Even the other women called her that. I won't bore you with the others. But maybe you know plenty of women who are not like that. I'll keep my mind open to meeting one. Who knows? Maybe I will. | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/30/2007 8:16:41 PM | There are two models for Alpha females. One very much follows the Alpha Male and the other is softened to account for the nature of a woman. Irreverent Lass's follows the softer model. Both models are valid, however, I think it is probably more realistic to use the model that mirrors the Alpha Male, as they compete with each other in the workplace.
ScorpioMover, to help you envision her, here is a snapshot of one of the Alpha Females I have known for some 25 odd years:
* She was the first female president in her field (and at a large firm, not a small one), the first female member of a board of directors, if you did a top 30 people in her field (male and female), she would be on that list. She Is highly respected, has many supporters and has many enemies. She greatly respects and supports her allies, ignores her enemies... unless they threaten her. She will "slice their throat so quickly and cleanly they won't realize the deed has been done until they go to turn their heads and it falls off their shoulders".
* She is a master of the political power play, but you never, ever see her moves. She is known as the ice queen. In 25+ years, I have NEVER heard her say a bad word about anyone... she slays them with her silence. "I'm not comfortable commenting on that person" or "I don't feel I know them well enough to make a recommendation". To do otherwise, would be bad politics in that industry. If she DOES give a recommendation, people's careers are made.
* She is highly supportive of her team, and sets extraordinarily high standards. Exacting comes to mind. They like her because she is always consistent, you know where you stand with her at all times. She considers being labelled as "tough but fair" very high praise. They all respect her, some are afraid of her, some like her, a few loathe her. One got into a power struggle with her and was quickly and cleanly disparched. She told me about it one day and her reaction was shock that this person was so politically unaware that they thought they had a remote chance of engaging her, let alone winning... she was contempyuous of their lack of awareness. If you meet her expectations, recognition is quick and very public. If you fail to meet those standards, or if you haven't appraised her of a pending crisis, she will quietly, normal conversational tone, ask you to step into her office, or make an appointment. People are nauseous when this happens, their blood turns to ice. She will rip you a new one in private, never raising her voice, she will be clear about actions to be taken, and the meeting will be FAST. She will not hold your hand, will not hear excuses, will not want to hear how you feel. When you leave her office, it is done. Mess up too many times, and you are fired, you cease to exist to her.
*Clients who do not treat her team with respect are fired. Suppliers who do not meet her standards are dropped, reps within the firms are removed from her business with one quiet, polite phone call saying she is not happy. I believe she rarely directly asks for them to be removed, just that the problem gets fixed. She wouldn't care if they stayed on the accont, as long as they worked to her satisfaction.
* In what is an exception to most other Alphas, if you have a family problem or a crisis, she accomodates it. Better not have too many of those however, you are expected to have your life sorted out so you are available for top performance. She is focused on "fixing" your problem, much as a male would be rather than empathetic as is more typical female behaviour. Do you need time off? How much? when? And then, almost as an afterthought, take care of youself.
* She has one child who goes to the best schools and had a nanny until highschool. She was friendly with her nanny, and always fair and generous... in a time when people had difficulty keeping help, theirs was a close and long standing relationship. She loves her son and made it a priority to spend time with him... often needing to schedule around business events... keeping profile was part of her job, and she was out at least 3 nights a week.
* Fit, she goes to the gym and has a personal trainer 3x weekly. He is the sme PT who works with (insert high profile sports name here). She is extraordinarily well groomed - always - and has a gorgeous wardrobe, selected thru personal shoppers twice a year. She is exceedingly well mannered and gracious. Her parties are exceptional, if you get drunk or boorish, you are never invited back, no second chance, just quietly dropped from her list. She is gracious, regardless of your "place" in life. She respects the time of her hairdreser, doctor, dentist... is never late for appointments and very professional... and expects the same in return.
* She and her 1st husband were a power couple, he was also highly regarded in a related field within the same industry. They were on everyone's A list. When they divorced, it was quick, clean, bloodless with no hysterionics. When it was over, they moved to tieing up the loose ends and taking care of their son. They saw a therapist before they split up to determine how to best divorce in a way that would not harm their son. The sons needs were primary in all of their decisions, and they worked to never hav a disagrement post-divorce. I believe her ex had an affair, but she never mentioned any reason why their marriage had failed.
* Her 2nd marriage was to someone who was even more of a mover and shaker, with greater prestige than her. Their guest list had names any Canadian on this site would immediately recognize... some of such a high profile internationally that Americans, Brits and Aussies would recognize them, as they do business internationally and are covered in the world press. Oh, and her former nanny... she didn't forget her as the list was close friends and family, not at all designed to be snobby.
As I said earlier, you simply can't compare women of Accomplishment to the true Alpha Female... and there are few true Alpha females using the same criteria as on the male model. | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/30/2007 8:34:50 PM | | Of course there is such a thing as an alpha female. She is narcisstic, manipulative and cold. She is terribly insecure so she puts up a brave front. Her self esteem is so low she must have control of every aspect of the relationship especially the future supply of affection. Always thinking about herself, she is totally oblivious to anyone elses experiences. Needless to say empathy is non=existence. Any attempt to share your feelings and she gives you the deer in the headlights look and asks if you want to have sex. | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/30/2007 9:25:12 PM | Alpha Females can have any man they want.
It's the beyotches that have menz problems.
Edit: The above is my answer. My apologies for my attempt at articulation. | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/30/2007 9:32:27 PM | | go out to a club and approach a group of women. You'll see the alpha female. Usually the hottest, sometimes just the loudest. She judges the men as they approach and decides if he stays or goes. Then decides whether she'll take the guy or move him down the pecking order. Alpha females ....mmmmmmm | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/30/2007 9:38:47 PM | Good question:
I think the lesser males here are going to cry foul while the other more confident ones are gonna yell "Bring Her On!!!!"
What makes you think 2 passive aggressive pairs, 2 milquetoast types are going to have any more/less success? We all rise to our own level of dysfunction or happiness.
WD | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/30/2007 9:53:20 PM |
Of course there is such a thing as an alpha female. She is narcisstic, manipulative and cold. She is terribly insecure so she puts up a brave front. Her self esteem is so low she must have control of every aspect of the relationship especially the future supply of affection. Always thinking about herself, she is totally oblivious to anyone elses experiences. Needless to say empathy is non=existence. Any attempt to share your feelings and she gives you the deer in the headlights look and asks if you want to have sex.
This more describes the alpha biotch rather than a true alpha female. Two totally different things IMHO | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/31/2007 3:41:49 AM | As a woman I see the Alpha Female differently, it would be a woman who has an amazing life most women would want to have or be: Pamela Anderson, Kelly Ripa, Angelina Jolie, Paris Hilton, Miss America, Brigitte Bardot, Mata Hari, Tyra Banks, Oprah, Katie Price, telenovela starlets, fashion runway model, 1960's international airline stewardess.....
Not too many women strive to be the business suit powerhouse testosterone-enhanced woman you and the media talk about. I disagree with you. Being physically beautiful, famous, wealthy, adored by millions, having a BF/husband, having children, exciting life, travel the world and wearing lots of feminine skirts and dresses is my idea of the Alpha Female. I'll pass on the Harvard scholarship and being the next Donald Trump. Yuck.
(But I'll settle for finding another Mark Consuelos or Mario Lopez if he's out there...) | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/31/2007 9:50:19 AM | | I consider myself an alpha female and I once dated an alpha male for 6 years, it was the best relationship I have ever had. We were competetive, head strong, but man were we passionate. The odd fight we had usually ended with one hanging up on the other or just simply walking away cause we both had to have the last word but the make up sex was wicked, lol. I was happy with his success and he with mine. Unfortunately circumstances made us end it but while it was on it was great and I hope one day to find another somewhat like him | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/31/2007 11:00:07 AM | Margo, I appreciate the example. I've never worked for someone like that. Wouldn't mind, though. Think I'll stick to my own type, though. Sounds too high-powered for me. Don't think I could give her a date worthy of her.
I'd be happy with a woman who likes going on a picnic.
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 7/31/2007 12:24:51 PM | I believe that women have come into their own. Due to the change in social acceptances, men have become softer or are looked on as more in touch with their feminine side (i.e. metrosexual...). So I believe an Alpha female would bend to accommodate and Alpha male. Because she is looking for an equal not a subbie.  | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 5/20/2010 1:06:00 AM | <-------LONG LIVE THIS THREAD......i just gave mouth to mouth
this house is cleaaaarrrr (poltergeist ref)
There should be MORE LIKE US....
not diva's...but lay down the law .."this is what i want...can you give it to me?"
i dont need your $, superimposed affection..i come fully equipped & are you ready..can you hang?
period
"alpha trying to fly under the radar" | |
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| Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female?
Posted: 5/20/2010 2:16:04 AM | Tangina: This house is clean. (the actual poltergeist ref)
is it acceptable for alpha's to make a simple mistake and still be alpha's?
this is what i want...can you give it to me no,,get it yourself,,your the alpha,,,,,,i'm busy with the waitress who is not only hot and sexy,,but her list of wants and needs is only one line long....
how long is yours?
"alpha trying to fly under the radar" this is an oxymoron,,,,,by there very nature,,alpha's take the lead and would never fly under any radar,,,,
it's like saying "go-getter sitting on a couch taking a nap".........comprende? | |
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