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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 4/13/2007 10:11:26 PM |
...however I do think that he should split the value of the house property that has accrued (any value exceeding the value of the home at the time of marriage) over the time a marriage partner has lived there and contributed care and money. Anything the partners have accrued together should be looked at as marital asset as well.
This is true to a certain extent. IF...she pays for half of the mortgage, bills, taxes, etc. Otherwise...she would be living there "rent free" and THEN get paid for it. If they weren't married, she would have to be paying to live somewhere...whether it be her own house or renting one. And unless a person lets their property run down, the value of a house usually increases with time. There are a lot of factors to look at and no one should should be taken advantage of in any situation...man or woman. But it happens, more often than not.
And I use the terms SHE and HER as an example...this could very well be HE and HIM if the tables were reversed and she was the one that owned a house and the guy moved in with her.
If either party deserves an equal split of the accrued value from the time they marry until they divorce then they should at least have to invest an equal share during that time.
I have never believed in the FWB type of situation (which is in another thread)...but after reading pages and pages on this subject, the FWB thing is starting to look more and more favorable...probably to a lot of people. | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 4/14/2007 9:09:44 PM | If you were going to do that anyway, then you wouldn't need a prenup. That's exactly what a judge would do if you couldn't settle things between you in a divorce.
Assets acquired before the marriage are separate, assets acquired during the marriage are joint (including the appreciation on assets acquired before the marriage). If you want any other split, you need an agreement.
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 4/14/2007 9:58:21 PM | Two of my friends (married to each other) are going through a split---I love them both, but would like to "spank" them for being sooooo stubborn with each other.
They have worked together for 35 years. He wanted a divorce--just wanted out--more than willing to split what they have 50/50 (a nice retail business and quite a bit of real estate). They, of course never had any agreements of any kind during their marriag and they "earned the money together"--but his wife is soooooo angry at him and so bitter that she will not agree to anything-- she wants, essentially, "it all"--so what will end up happening is that there will be an auction of EVERYTHING--down to the silverware and sheets and towels in the drawers, the sofa, the microwave and their vehicles, and their business--everything will sell at 10 cents on the dollar. The wife will get her "revenge"--her "pound of flesh"--and they will both be financially destroyed.
If they would cooperate, they could both be "set up nicely for life." There are a number of ways that it could be fairly done--like the old way we mommies did with two kids and one piece of cake--let one kid cut it, and the other kid gets to choose.
Or hire independent appraisers for the items they have, put the name of the items & prices on a paper and let them draw them out of a "hat"-- or let them ( and onoy them) bid against each other for everything. Then at the end of the auction, all the money gores into 2 piles--50/50 then each one pays the price he/she bid on the items they bought.
A prenup would prevent this sort of thing if assets were kept separate. I realize this couple have been married a long time and started out essentially with nothing, and have a business and some lands, so it is by rights half hers and half his. But the point I am trying to make is that ONE party (in this case the wife) wants to punish her soon-to-be ex by cutting her own nose off her face to spite him. The lawyers and auctioneers will get 30% -%50 of anything sold, and it will be sold for 10-15 cents on the dollar.
Even couples marrying with one having a good income and the other having a lower one can agree to keep their financess separate. | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 4/15/2007 2:33:05 PM | ^ ^ ^ ^ Hmm . . . . This is odd. At least where I live when this sort of thing happens, the case goes before a judge who splits everything down the middle (getting property appraised if necessary), and in some cases, a little towards the favor of the party who isn't being a total a-hole. This is how it happened in Maryland where my bf got divorced, and in NY where my divorce took place.
Are you SURE that's what has to happen in Arkansa? It seems so barbaric.
Maybe if he kicks in another 10 percent for "spankies" his wife will capitulate? This is all so unnecessary.
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 4/15/2007 3:03:25 PM | | I agree with the last poster. Omg, that seems ridiculous!! I would think that a judge would not allow one party to maliciously destroy the value of marital assets, for no other reason than bitterness. I have never heard of that happening in the midwest? | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 4/15/2007 4:00:45 PM | Yes, that is what happens at least in Arkansas. If the parties cannot agree on a split and there are considerable assets (usually when there are no assets to speak of there isn't a big court fight anyway cause neither party can afford a real lawyer besides the "quickie Divorce" for $165.) The judge orders that everything be sold at PUBLIC AUCTION. Sometimes auctions bring fair prices, but many times they do not. Each party gets half the proceeds of the auction, AFTER the auction company gets 25% off the top, plus 5% for advertising costs. So now they have 70% of the auction proceeds to split. Each gets 35% of the proceeds of the auction of everything they own except their clothing. House, automobiles, business, microwave, sofa, etc.
Happens frequently around here if one party is really pi$$ed off or being a d1ck/b1tch. The sad part is that my friends have a very very very successful business for these parts and make a good living at it---if he wants the store, she isn't willing to let him have it, if she wants the store, he wants half the appriased price, she says that's too much, he put his family's inheritence into the store when they first started,, she just recently got her family's inheritence, so she thinks he shouldn't get any part of that, but isn't willing to reimburse him for his family's money that she's had the use of for 30 years in the business, and on and on ad nauseum. They've been separated for over 5 years and bickering all this time, and working in the store together all this time too.
Talk about dysfunctional relationship--I'd like to SPANK both of them because they are separately at least, nice, rational, reasonable people, but where their relationship is involved they are NUT CASES, cutting their noses off to spite their faces! Dumb! | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/13/2009 7:26:27 AM | Just noticed a thread in which a couple were wondering what was appropriate for a second wedding ceremony and gifts. Some people had to say iron-clad prenuptial.
I just wanted to say in reply, that I don't think a pre-nupt designed to suit your wants, if it is not crafted according to spousal laws that are in place for division of assets and liabilities, is going to fly in Supreme Court Canada.
There are many that have signed these things when they are feeling the love, trust and warmth of each other and want to show to each other they are not greedy.
When it somes down to the uglies of divorce and that pre-nupt. isn't in accordance to the spousal divorce/divisional laws that are in place, the pre-nupt. is thrown out.
This just happened to a friend of mine. She signed one that her S/O had made up. He had a lawyer make it up accordingly to what he wanted it to say. She took it to her lawyer and he advised her it wasn't fair at all. She told her S/O that and he got cranky with her. She hurriedly signed it.
Nine years later, they split. He is happy, happy, happy with his pre-nupt. The value of houses doubled and he only gets to pay her out a tiny bit. He made over $100, 000. a year and she made less than $20,000. a year. She always paid for half the expenses which left her nothing to live on.
I urged her to take the pre-nupt. back to that lawyer. To make a long story short, it was thrown out. It was not according to the laws of the Supreme Court of Canada.
Just be careful when you advocate pre-nupt. | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/13/2009 3:47:54 PM | | These days, everyone getting married should have a prenuptial agreement. A premarital agreement acts as a safeguard for both you and your spouse-to-be. It protects your assets and may prevent expensive and acrimonious litigation if a divorce should occur by defining the rights and responsibilities of the parties in advance. With today's divorce rate hovering around 50%,a prenuptial agreement may be one of the most prudent decisions in your life. This is particularly true for business owners who may wish to preserve what they have worked so hard to build. | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/13/2009 8:09:01 PM | I would sign a prenuptial agreement, ( protecttion of my security ) I believe too that marriage should last eternity but that won't happen for there is no such thing as eternity, you lose a spouse through divorce or death....
Perhaps some might say I'm blinded by my emotions,but what kind of love is it if your materialistic and finances are streaming through your head before you've even begun you've journey ?
People who has nothing to protect ,*doesn't care to sign a prenuptial agreement because they have nothing to lose.* But those people who work hard for their security will hold on to it, that no one will squander their savings, steal their properties by their so called spouses /mate. | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/13/2009 8:20:12 PM |
some people have assets... thats why and they want want to protect them.
That is correct, but if a couple build up some assets during their marriage that is what they are going to split up on their divorce. | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/13/2009 8:27:03 PM | I possibly wouldn't sign one. I believe material things are not important and I would never pretend to take part of my spouses estate just because in case we would split.
I would hope he would know me better than to ask me to sign, but we will never know right? | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/13/2009 9:16:33 PM | Marriage is a CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT recognized by the STATE that gives the parties certain LEGAL RIGHTS.
Remember, the priest/rabbi/minister/ mystical shaman/boat captain says:
By the power vested in me by_______(usually gawd) but then followed in mumbled terms (and the state of california) or whatever state you are standing in...
I now pronounce you married. (man and wife.. husband and wife.. or some other designation chosen at the time.
Now.. to UNDO that. You have to SUE in the STATE of residence, with LAWYERS.. to break/breach/ end the CONTRACT. The STATE forces you to become the LEGAL PARTNERS WHO WANT OUT at that time you WANT out.
So.. compare it to going into BUSINESS together.. with a FINANCIAL investment as well as PROMISES to work hard at the business(marriage) make money (community property) build a business together )acquisitions, mergers, employees(kids) and bills)debts.
You both LOVE the business while you are growing it.. You both LOVE the challenges cause the common goal is SUCCESS.
now.. what about when there is a REVERSAL OF FORTUNE. What about when the partner isnt working as hard as you are.
What about when the partner is fed up
What about when the partner stops showing up for work, while you are STUCK keeping the doors open for the employees (coming home each night to feed and care for the kids(employees) while your partner is out schmoozing new clients (the barmaid at the local pub) and isnt helping out in the office(home)
What about when it SEEMS company assets (community property money) is being spent frivolously(gambling, drinking, wine, women,song, shoes(have to be gender fair here) or other wasteful spending NEVER agreed upon back when the LOVE of the promise of the budding partnership was blossoming? What THEN?????????????
Well my friends.. If you want to DENY that marriage ISNT a CONTRACT.. recognized by the STATE.. where you SUE to get YOURS.. go do that. but trust me, the LOVE you entered into this partnership WITH.. is LONG GONE when you are ending the CONTRACT. THEN you are paying LAWYERS to fight it out for you.
Better to pay a lawyer to negotiate a prenup. a PRENUP is agreeing to what will NEVER happen.
think about that last sentence..
A PRENUP.. is putting down in writing.. the words of love that you both agree will NEVER happen. Not ever.
If you cant agree to it IN ADVANCE, then you should never do it. Period
If it can be SAID, then it can be WRITTEN.
Anything else if a bunch of crapola coming out of fantasy novels published by Harlequin. | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/13/2009 9:33:20 PM |
published by Harlequin.
You seem to have an issue with this company who puts out billions of dollars worth of books for romantically starved women.
Is this the same as women getting P.O.'d at the billion dollar porn industry that puts out flicks for the sexually starved males?
Hmmm... maybe there is something to this as far as a solution to the "needs" of men and women.
Some men like to go out with pornstars. Makes them feel manly, maybe?
Some women like to go out with men who are like the Harlequin Heros, maybe?
I will put that in my Pre-nupt. If I am going to marry a man who is like a Harlequin Hero, he has to remain that way for the duration of the marriage or I will walk.
It seems like most men require the woman take care of herself physically or they feel they have the right to walk. (looking for my platforms....)
Edit:Only being tongue-in-cheeky as I don't read the stuff, although I do like looking at some of the hot looking men on the covers. | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/13/2009 9:35:17 PM | Marriage is a CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT recognized by the STATE that gives the parties certain LEGAL RIGHTS.
Remember, the priest/rabbi/minister/ mystical shaman/boat captain says:
By the power vested in me by_______(usually gawd) but then followed in mumbled terms (and the state of california) or whatever state you are standing in...
I now pronounce you married. (man and wife.. husband and wife.. or some other designation chosen at the time.
Now.. to UNDO that. You have to SUE in the STATE of residence, with LAWYERS.. to break/breach/ end the CONTRACT. The STATE forces you to become the LEGAL PARTNERS WHO WANT OUT at that time you WANT out.
So.. compare it to going into BUSINESS together.. with a FINANCIAL investment as well as PROMISES to work hard at the business(marriage) make money (community property) build a business together )acquisitions, mergers, employees(kids) and bills)debts.
You both LOVE the business while you are growing it.. You both LOVE the challenges cause the common goal is SUCCESS.
now.. what about when there is a REVERSAL OF FORTUNE. What about when the partner isnt working as hard as you are.
What about when the partner is fed up
What about when the partner stops showing up for work, while you are STUCK keeping the doors open for the employees (coming home each night to feed and care for the kids(employees) while your partner is out schmoozing new clients (the barmaid at the local pub) and isnt helping out in the office(home)
What about when it SEEMS company assets (community property money) is being spent frivolously(gambling, drinking, wine, women,song, shoes(have to be gender fair here) or other wasteful spending NEVER agreed upon back when the LOVE of the promise of the budding partnership was blossoming? What THEN?????????????
Well my friends.. If you want to DENY that marriage ISNT a CONTRACT.. recognized by the STATE.. where you SUE to get YOURS.. go do that. but trust me, the LOVE you entered into this partnership WITH.. is LONG GONE when you are ending the CONTRACT. THEN you are paying LAWYERS to fight it out for you.
Better to pay a lawyer to negotiate a prenup. a PRENUP is agreeing to what will NEVER happen.
think about that last sentence..
A PRENUP.. is putting down in writing.. the words of love that you both agree will NEVER happen. Not ever.
If you cant agree to it IN ADVANCE, then you should never do it. Period
If it can be SAID, then it can be WRITTEN.
Anything else if a bunch of crapola coming out of fantasy novels published by Harlequin.
Edit: I pulled something from another post I made.. feel free to read ALL of my posts by clicking on my history here.. but anyway..
the below is what I believe REAL and ADULT love is:
Love is the culmination of actions over time that assemble themselves within our mind and create a bond, as well as a desire to put forth effort TOWARDS that person where their well being becomes important to you. You want to BE bonded to them through the giving of yourself, where the joy OF that giving is satisfaction enough, but the reward of reciprocity is like frosting on a cake, that you would've eaten plain.
Based upon that, you can love a sibling, a child, a parent, a friend, a job or an experience.
I dont believe for a minute that ADULT love is something "fallen" into. We "fall" into lustful attraction & desire. Real, adult love takes time as I've said above. Infatuation mimics love, but isnt love by a long shot.
"Romantic" love encompasses all of the above, and includes all/many things sexual.
An ADULT can go to his/her LOGIC outside of their FEELING and negotiate what will never happen clearly. If you cant, then you arent ready for marriage | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/13/2009 9:52:22 PM | So, what are you going to do to the lady who "falls" in love with you before a year is up?
And, because romantic love is a qualifier for you, including the sex, when does she have sex with you? When she falls in love with you, which should be a year at least in the making?
You have interesting ideas. | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/13/2009 10:53:48 PM | You would be better off learning about relationships rather than trying to put on a band-ade.
Besides... I don't know how romantic a prenup would be to a person right before marrage... might drop their love level down a notch... which is exactly what you DO NOT want.
Plus, a prenup is only going to cover your monetary assets... what about your mental state and happiness? Ever hear of a little thing called baggage? Divorce can be hell, and emotional pain can last a long time.... some people never get over it. I know money is important but... what about happiness and your mental state?
You don't need a pre-nup if she is madly in love with you and you know how to keep her that way. Would a person in love want a divorce? | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/14/2009 1:10:00 AM | Belle - it seems you are responding to me.
Presuming you are, I would say to you that the fact that there are such a wealth of "romantically starved" women, we ought to TEACH them what TRUE romance is.
I say that to you, because I have read those harlequin novels. Please trust me on this one, they DONT even come close to describing what REAL MEN are about. They dont describe REAL romance, nor do they describe REAL men.
The "prince" in cinderella was all fake. In the entire 20th century.. ONE prince abdicated his title and wealth to marry a divorcee. the other one wanted to be Camilla's tampon. I dont see either of those two represented in ANY harlequin romance.
The billion dollar "erotic" industry at least has REAL human women showing REAL female body parts in print, and doing REAL erotic acts with REAL male human body parts in film. While their moans and undulations may be fake.. most of the "money shots" are not. The "gyno-weekly views certainly arent fake.
Men crave the experience of those "money shots" (notice how dignified I presented that.) Generally speaking, they crave it, even after marriage, because the "little woman at home ISNT GIVING IT TO THEM.
Harlequin, and hollywood for that matter.. show males (sometimes GAY males - see Rock Hudson/Doris Day role models ACTING( see faking) the idea of "romance" in a sell-to-stupid-women deal of FAKERY.. the concept of ROMANCE - hollywood style!
Now.. please tell me which one is MORE real than the other.
At least those "erotic" scenes had REAL body parts.
Rock Hudson as a leading MAN?? that I-died-from HOMOSEXUALLY-gotten-AIDS poofter? and for YEARS women swooned for him. Shall I list ALL the gay-I-only-do-other-males-in-REAL-life fantasies that women have swooned over? PUHLEEZE
I have NEVER met ONE woman who had EVER been with, or met a REAL LIVE MAN that was represented in a harlequin romance novel. ALL of them are fake.
If porn is a FAKE representation.. then ALL romance novels are PORN and should be banned for corrupting young (and apparently old)women.
One of your posts to me said:
"So, what are you going to do to the lady who "falls" in love with you before a year is up?'
Belle - to her I'd say.. Define this LOVE you have "fallen into" with me. Tell me the why, and ALL your THINKING behind it. What have I DONE to demonstrate to you that I am worthy of your love?
If she couldnt answer that with logic and demonstratable fact, I would think she was an emotionally based twitterhead and would reject her professions of love as immature. You see, Belle, to me, REAL ADULT love is NOT "fallen" into. It is GROWN into over TIME. that growth comes from CONSISTENT demonstratable events and facts that are beyond MISinterpretation. No one FALLS into truth.
Belle, you also ask:
"And, because romantic love is a qualifier for you, including the sex, when does she have sex with you? When she falls in love with you, which should be a year at least in the making?"
To that I say, that "romantic love" is NOT a qualifier to me, unless we (the woman and I) have already agreed on what "romantic" is. If SHE is using harlequin, then her love is false. If she is using logic, adult definitions(which harlequin is NOT), the components of a mature love based upon actions, consistency, consideration, caring, support, kindness, graciousness & nurturing.. AND has demonstrated all of that to me, Then, and only then would I accept that her love was real.
If she has used all of these things, then she never "fell" in love with me. Fact is, she GREW (an adult act) into loving me.... because it was a logical conclusion.
Any physical act of pleasure that added to the bonding.. would be frosting on that cake grown out of love.. a cake we'd both willingly eat UNfrosted.
Of course.. the mutual giving of pleasure from that physical act would make for a GREAT frosting. and make us both want that cake for a long long time.
Finally belle.. you said:
"You have interesting ideas."
To that I say.. YES I DO. and.. I thank you for admiring them so much to comment as you have..
Edit: Belle, I hadnt read your EXCEPTION example above about your friend's singular experience with a poorly written prenup. If I had, and she had come to ME at the point of pressure to sign, I would have advised her to run like hell from the guy.
HOWEVER, I would have ALSO advised her to pay a 1/6th amount of the lifestyle expenses during the term of her marriage.. 20K versus 100K. Then I would have advised her to save SEPARATELY the balance of her own earnings, AND to insist on equity sharing in all post-marital assets based upon contribution. THEN she would have had a lot less to worry about.
Finally, about your friend.. Exceptions are like the broken clock. It's got the right time twice a day.. but the WRONG time 1338 times a day. NEVER count on the exceptions in life. The odds are against you | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/14/2009 3:01:04 AM | Absolutely! It's ashame that society is what it is these days but with the divorce ratio being what it is I think it's a smart move. And, every prenup can be tailored fairly but you just never know....better to be safe than sorry. I agree that it's sad that people have to think in terms like that when marriage is to me a journey of love and not finances...but it's a different world we live in today and you have to be careful...people change over time.
Would you drive a car without insurance?
Would you live in a house without insurance?
Would you go to the hospital without insurance?
Would you fall in love and risk your TOTAL financial security if you had more money than your partner?
If so...you'd be CRAZY! It's not about LOVE or TRUST...it's about protecting your assets so the STATE doesnt' force you to give up half of your assets,redistribute them against your will and so you are financially PROTECTED.
If not for the prenup I made him sign 6 years before we got married,25 years into the relationship when it all fell apart....and we would up separated and divorced,I would have LOST half of EVERYTHING to someone who didn't put half into the marriage.
I walked away with everything I had invested into the marriage.
HOUSE.Stock Portfolio.Kids.I was the PROVIDER.
I can see how and WHY a dependant wouldn't want to sign though! lol
Protecting your own assets isn't only SMART..it's PRUDENT.
50/50 isn't very good odds!
I have yet to meet ONE divorced man ho lost HALF of all,thanks to the damn community property laws,who didn't kick himself in the A$$ for not drawing one up!
Child support is one thing...handing over HALF of all to an EX spouse....is another thing ALTOGETHER!
Sign it or WATCH YOUR A$$ETS get syphoned from your account by your ever loving EX and the STATE.!
OH...and I didn't get child support.Nor did I walk away with HIS MONEY! | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/14/2009 6:54:15 AM | Marriage,I came to find out, is NOT about love and trust.....so much as it is a FINANCIAL BINDING LEGAL CONTRACT between two people of differing financial postions.The one who has the money is the one who get's the most SCREWED in the marriage/divorce...and I don't mean the good kind of screwed.
Nothing like kicking a freeloader to the curb and walking away with what you came into the marriage with is my realization.
Ours was set up so that neither of us benefitted financially from the others efforts or assets before or during the marriage.
That is the way it should be if you ask me.
Anything other than that SCREAMS..entitlement issues.
Funny thing...even though he SIGNED the damn thing...he STILL felt entitled to HALF.
 In your DREAMS buddy! | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/14/2009 7:16:26 AM | I will put that in my Pre-nupt. If I am going to marry a man who is like a Harlequin Hero, he has to remain that way for the duration of the marriage or I will walk.
Don't let the door hit you on your way out....
A pre-nup is about what will happen with the legal and financial aspects of the marriage while it's being dissolved.
Marriage,I came to find out, is NOT about love and trust.....
Of course not. Laywers and contracts don't negotiate "love" and "trust".
Would you fall in love and risk your TOTAL financial security if you had more money than your partner?
If so...you'd be CRAZY! It's not about LOVE or TRUST...it's about protecting your assets so the STATE doesnt' force you to give up half of your assets,redistribute them against your will and so you are financially PROTECTED.
Which is why marriage should be abolished.
It's a clever euphemism for extortion.
Ours was set up so that neither of us benefitted financially from the others efforts or assets before or during the marriage.
That is the way it should be if you ask me.
Anything other than that SCREAMS..entitlement issues.
Agreed. Glad to hear this coming from a woman. | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/14/2009 7:21:45 AM | No I would not. If I was asked by someone I really loved and cared about to sign a prenup I would leave and never return.
I don't want their money and it would show their lack of confidence in me. | |
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| Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/14/2009 7:39:23 AM | No I would not. If I was asked by someone I really loved and cared about to sign a prenup I would leave and never return.
Sure you would.
Because you really loved him? 
I'd just like to know how you'd feel if your net worth was multiple times what his was....
Call me old fashioned, but I believe marriage should last an eternity, and I could never marry if I hadn't felt the purest of love.
Then if you truly believed what you were saying, you'd have no issues with signing a pre nup.
Put your (or more importantly, his...) money, where your mouth is... | |
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