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 FauzWuzHere
Joined: 8/26/2004
Msg: 26
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)

Here is my question about Satan. He is Lucifer, a fallen angel. Does this mean that he has the same powers as an angel, or, does he have more control over the world than other angels.


All I know is when Adam/Eve sinned, the "deed" or "legal rights" to the earth was trasnferred to Satan. Satan reigns on earth, within the boundaries set by God. I'm assuming he has the same powers as when he was Lucifer, but I can't back that.
 ScottMorfitt
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 27
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 4:11:39 AM
Here is something interesting, Lucifer is referred to "the star that fell from heaven" but so is one of the Babylonian Kings in Isaiah. Just some interesting info.
 FauzWuzHere
Joined: 8/26/2004
Msg: 28
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 4:47:05 AM
Neat..

Reinforces why I think celebritism and fame creates pride and ultimately a fall.
 JessKO
Joined: 1/18/2005
Msg: 29
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 2:49:36 PM
The devil is Babylonian?
 FauzWuzHere
Joined: 8/26/2004
Msg: 30
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 3:50:29 PM
no no no
 MysticinVA
Joined: 9/3/2004
Msg: 31
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 3:56:39 PM

The devil is Babylonian


what as in Jai Rasta Fari....awwww...NOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaabylon....

We're Jammin

 FauzWuzHere
Joined: 8/26/2004
Msg: 32
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 4:49:36 PM
The devil is not of Babylon, he just tends to babble on.
 ScottMorfitt
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 33
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/6/2005 10:17:19 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That was a bit cheesy dude. But, I like cheesy humor.
 FauzWuzHere
Joined: 8/26/2004
Msg: 34
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/6/2005 10:23:26 PM
I love cheese!
 Loci
Joined: 2/3/2005
Msg: 35
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/7/2005 12:23:13 PM
Hmm you all do make good and valid points(and i am glad this didn't devolve into a flame war ^,^), though personally i just can't fathom how an enity of good(and if there was ever an enity that represented good its an arch angel) could devolve so much(or become so deluded) he would fall so far from grace. Still i personally do not believe in the DEVIL, why? its pretty simple *chuckles* aside from the fact that i am not christian i don't think we need any help to sin, it comes natural why? well it all comes down to psychology when you are told DON'T DO THAT! you will naturally want to do it. Still it was interesting to hear all your ideas, beliefs and thoughts and alot of them are very sound. Still i think its all about judgement, we don't and are not tempted by the devil. Wanting to steal cause you want that object isn't the devils influence thats just simple greed. Still i think i like my freind marys idea on the devil i'll tell it cause its interesting how she puts it(and it makes so much more sense!).

The devil as we know him is Lucifer a supposed fallen angel, she believes the role of lucifer was mis-translated or interpreted entirely(remember the bible has been translated countless times and knowing that there have been changes made to influence the current times and control people) wrong. Her belief is that Lucifer was sent to earth by God to watch over mortals who had sinned and to try and lead them back onto the right path. Because he was always seen or the image of him was seen around people who sinned badly(such as murderers) he became misinterpreted as a vile reverseism of God.

Remember one thing i am not christian, i use to be but i left that path for another path. Still i think her theory on Lucifers role sorta makes sense if you think about it. What do you all think?
 FauzWuzHere
Joined: 8/26/2004
Msg: 36
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/7/2005 4:04:03 PM
Nope. Its just an attempt to make people believe that he doesn't exist, or that he's "not that bad" or not bad at all.

If you knew that satan was real, then you'd conclude God was real. So satan will do his best to convince you that he doesn't exist. The greatest lie ever told.
 Handsome_n_honest
Joined: 1/1/2005
Msg: 37
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/7/2005 11:30:07 PM
MajMike good thing you wrote in your earlier post, even though I'm not Christian. Answer me this:

you said - " But the seduction of Lucifer is real, we see it every day when people place their needs and wants above those of their fellow man. And when a man sees himself as the 'ultimate' creation, he begins to see himself as the ultimate authority as well, which leads us rapidly to the "he who dies with the most toys wins" philosophy"

Does that mean Bush & Cheney are under Lucifer's control?
 ScottMorfitt
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 38
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/8/2005 12:00:00 AM
Yes, but under that theory most fortune 500 CEOs are under lucifer's control as well...
Although, I think any time a leader invokes the name of God to do something that goes against Christ's teachings they are under Satan's control (the war perhaps)
 Handsome_n_honest
Joined: 1/1/2005
Msg: 39
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/8/2005 12:12:32 AM
so were the priests of the dark ages and the ancient popes under His control also?
 ScottMorfitt
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 40
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/8/2005 12:16:14 AM
Hard question, yes in that the worked for their own devices. But, they still kept the message going if only for their own benefit. What some men do for evil, God can make for good.
 Handsome_n_honest
Joined: 1/1/2005
Msg: 41
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/8/2005 12:21:29 AM
Very weak Scott, you contradicted yourself. Carefully view both questions. If anything, the priests of old were MORE controled by your devil. They killed indiscriminately, raped, torured and burned people alive. Any who was different would die. "Thou shalt not kill" isn't that somewhere in the books. So he who kills is in fact influenced by the Devil, yes?, No? regardless of religious statute?
 ScottMorfitt
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 42
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/8/2005 12:31:07 AM
No NO NO you get me all wrong...these men were evil **stards controled by their own desires and yes by Satan. But, you fail to see that for Christianity to even be in its current existance they were of great importance. They controled the knowledge for a while when no one else had it. I am not the greatest dark ages expert but I know that for the path to the current Christianity (which has many people working for their own devices) they had to be there almost as gatekeepers for the future.
 Handsome_n_honest
Joined: 1/1/2005
Msg: 43
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/8/2005 12:39:20 AM
...and hence could have re-written Christian scripture while under the influence of God antethesis to worship and do Lucifer's biding as opposed to Christ's.


I know, far fetched you think, but still a possibility since they already had given entrance to the Fallen Angel, right?
 ScottMorfitt
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 44
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/8/2005 12:55:58 AM
But,
And this will hurt my claim a tiny bit. The dead sea scrolls do agree with a good portion of the modern text that is the Bible. But I can still see how that could be a possibility
 christianboy
Joined: 2/7/2005
Msg: 45
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/8/2005 5:44:48 AM
That was the devils most cleaver trick because by tricking the world into beliving that he dosent exsist. The world were not afraid of going to hell and there for there was no sin and if there was a heaven everyone must go there. So they could do watever they wanted and they would go to heaven or just die.
 Loci
Joined: 2/3/2005
Msg: 46
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/8/2005 7:50:24 AM
Umm i hate to agree with hansome and honest and yet disagree to an extent as well. The men of religious power of the middle ages were vile and evil but, somthing bugs the hell out of me. Why do people constantly see bad things and blame the devil? stop placing blame one him and START taking responsibility for your actions. If you have an impure thought guess what THATS not the devil its YOU. Stop trying to place blame on others and start doing the adult thing and take responsibility for your own negativity. I get constantly irritated by christians(and no not all are like this i know alot who don't do this) who see some bad thing happen and instantly blame satan for it. You all want to know where the satan figure emerged in history? i can tell you i've read it in 3 books and its always the same. During the Crusades the zealot warriors of GOD happend upon a persian(i think) god who had goat horns, goats feet and was seen as an evil enity by the persians. So what did the bishops and popes realize when they heard of this. Holy sh*t thats JUST like the pagan father god we are trying to get rid of I KNOW lets call this guy satan SAY he is the devil/lucifer and that all pagans are worshiping satan! hence the inquesition had its drive to go after pagans(short history lesson).
 Handsome_n_honest
Joined: 1/1/2005
Msg: 47
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/8/2005 12:46:33 PM
I agree with loci, but was merely asking a christian's perspective on the influence of their Devil. Nice history... here's more, an Irish man told me "hell" is an ancient celtic word for the afterlife; when the Church met the Celts, they told them they were wrong and that hell was the bad place you went to if you did'nt listen to them. Over time most Celts forgot the original meaning of the word, due to the Church's assimilation of the culture.
 Handsome_n_honest
Joined: 1/1/2005
Msg: 48
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/8/2005 12:48:38 PM
P.S. There was no Hell, or "Bad Afterlife" in Christianity before the Celts' encounter.
 Loci
Joined: 2/3/2005
Msg: 49
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/8/2005 12:55:38 PM
Oh really? thats a new one on me ^,^ i can't find a good celtic mythology book anywhere they seem hard to get a hold of! its frustraiting.
 Handsome_n_honest
Joined: 1/1/2005
Msg: 50
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/8/2005 1:15:36 PM
It is an oral history, ask an old Irishman who speaks his native tongue... Most good writings of other culture have either been burned or destroyed by past invaders (didn't name any names...uhhumm....) or are in the vatican's vaults. When the church falls, and we get to see the vaults open up, people will be amazed at what the Church has kept.
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