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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/22/2008 10:08:37 PM | Irish - you pose a thoughtful question. Seems to me the question although partially about success and income may also be about stage of life and social, emotional, spiritual, intellectual, sexual and financial compatibility.
Each of those areas are weighted - valued differently person to person. I have an affluent and intelligent friend now in her early 60's who married a kind, creative and poor musician. They have been happily married 25 years. She valued the social and emotional in her man more than the financial or intellectual.
I retired at 42 and married a man 17 years my senior. We were compatible in every way (social, emotional, intellectual, sexual and financial) but one: stage of life ... he was ready to whittle on the porch I was ready to contribute to the world. Our marriage lasted 2 years. Thus, you can see my friend and her husband had different needs and wants (values and stage of life) than my former spouse and I.
Success is not measured the same with all peoples. For some it is money, others security, relationship, control, independence, contribution or achievement. | |
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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/23/2008 3:47:57 AM | In my observation, I've come across female doctors and lawyers and also many women with master's degrees or undergraduate degrees. As my own education level is quite high (I have two degrees myself) I think educated women would tend to find educated men more attractive, and I also find educated women very attractive, but educated women don't always just date men from within their own profession. One good friend of mine is a doctor and we talked a lot and at a few stages it seemed there was something more there than friendship (though I am qualified as a Journalist and work as a paralegal) but I think we both knew deep down it would not work, not because of the difference in professions or education but for emotional reasons. She is now in a very happy relationship with another man who is not a doctor himself. Likewise I've met female lawyers and generally they are married or in relationships with men who are not lawyers; usually they are businessmen or have another occupation. Overhearing their conversations, female lawyers have said money is not an issue (as clearly with their education and earning capacity female lawyers who are successful are also very independent financially) and look for intelligence and good moral qualities and emotional compatibility in a man. To give an example to make this concrete, one lawyer I know did marry and accountant, but ended the marriage, and is now in a relationship with the manager of a local hardware store. I think the basic message I can glean from all this is educated women are happy with men who are their equals, either intellectually or financially, but like most people, would not like strong disparities in education, wealth or contributions to a relationship (though there may well be some exceptions).
While for me I am sometimes concerned that a woman more educated than myself might find other men more attractive, I have talked to this directly with educated women who are my friends and generally they tell me they are quite happy with me, and can see I have good emotional qualities like compassion, and also very strong ability. I am not as successful or as wealthy as some other men my age and education background, due to various reasons, and sometimes I think because of this women select mates on the basis of career success or financial wealth, and also because of some past unpleasant experiences. But I find this fairly useless and unprofitable and gives me the wrong image of women, and I strongly believe that intelligent women should be given the same opportunities and rights as men in society. I think whatever your background or what you do, if you are an intelligent and successful man an intelligent women complements you well, whatever her background. I tend to find female philosophers and theologians somewhat more attractive than female lawyers and doctors, probably because that mirrors my own interests, though there is nothing necessarily wrong with female lawyers and doctors. | |
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| Western Society Defines a Woman by her Man's Status...
Posted: 1/23/2008 9:59:06 AM | haven't you all ever stood around and listened to the conversations of women in regards to their men. When a woman meets a new guy and tells her community(family and friends)the 1st question that comes to forefront is..."What does he do for a living?" This question is not solely to determine if he is employed. If anyone tells you that it is... THEY ARE LYING!!!!
When a guy meets a new woman and tells his community(family and friends)noone ask what she does. The question is generally..."Where or how did you meet her?"
All to often you hear prominent, especially of colour, women saying..."Why can't I meet a man on my educational, social, and economic level...?
Does anyone here know the answer to this question that women have? Then I will tell you why...
It's because all the men on their education, social, and economic level are dating and marrying females that work in Mc'Ds, StripClubs, Malls, Restaurants, and are LifeTime students. Men don't give a shiit about what a woman does or whether or not she is on his educational, social, and economic level. She just has to be HOT!!! She has to be his TROPHY!!! Until successful women adapt to this social norm that makes up Western Society the disparaging Gap between educated and socially well off women and men of lesser status will continue to grow. The less attractive but successful women are adapting though. Dating and marrying convicts and thugs... but men that are very appealing to them astheticly.
That's just the way it is...
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! | |
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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/23/2008 11:36:20 AM | This thread is far too long for me to read the whole thing...
Pretty much I'm a case study in this subject. I've got 3 college degrees. I've had some serious troubles which prompted life altering changes many years ago. So, I'm a wild mixture of cultural perceptions. It is definitely perception of success and classification that many people look at. Too, popular identities are very predominant. I see things nowadays that are more like children playing than the days of old when people were very strict to date within their class. I've seen the trend develop of older women dating much younger men because "boy toys" became cool. I see the same with white girls in the south purposely attracting black men and dating them as a status symbol. To me, I see these as cultural phenomenons and a part of our evolving culture(s). I recall going to a seminar in my college years (I'm sure some of you have done this too) in which we had to rate a list of professions according to how we respected them. Near the top of the list was school teachers, nurses, etc. down on the bottom were truckers, skilled laborers, etc. Amazingly enough very little of it had to do with income levels. Reality is mere perception. Now that I've witnessed so much in the real world and some of the world that is far from REAL, I find the general population exceptionally ignorant about class or compatibility. For example, I know of a lady I went to college with who is one of the biggest idiots, pill head, slut, etc. and is a tenured high school teacher. In her professional circle she is well thought of. I ran into her and got to reaquaint with her and found that she is totally screwed up mentally/emotionally. I've known of several others in various high esteem professions I can also compare this to. Then, I have been involved in trucking and several skilled labor professions. I've met and known many who, once out of their work clothes, become these highly professional business people. Funny, I've been told that I had a very distinguished appearance and was applauded for my intelligence...but have been treated less than a human when dressed in my tattered overalls and covered with filth while doing the plumbing repairs and sometimes making wages of a high powered attorney. Believe me, it's all about perception regardless of job title... sanitary engineer or garbage man???? | |
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Kynnie
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Joined: 4/8/2007
Msg: 183 | |
| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/23/2008 12:25:07 PM | I would think that if you have the same fundamental ethics & interests, that in all likelihood it would seem more practical to engage in a relationship with someone of a differing career responsibility.
If you have two people devoted to time involved careers I would expect its more difficult to manage things like time together which is paramount to maintaining close relations.
Presuming obviously that money wouldnt be an issue...to have one person in the relationship who's role could be more flexible within it (re. family)...that it would be easier to keep a balance of fluidity & support in all aspects of life. | |
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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/23/2008 12:30:16 PM | | I'd say that if they can sit down at the dinner table and be on the same level then it could work. But too many people simply do not even sit to listen and involve themselves with each other's intimate thoughts. Many want only an impersonal contractual agreement less any obligations... then whine that there is only a cold, unemotional, detached relationship. | |
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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/23/2008 12:43:20 PM | I would not date someone who did not have a similar education . I was married for many years to a man who had no education ...my mistake . I have a University degree and a Nursing diploma,
Our worlds were so very far apart. We were not equals and we both new it ...so no | |
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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/23/2008 3:51:18 PM |
Went into relationship with all of them for who they are as people... not for the careers they had or money they made.
Well said, Margo. I'm not worried about money or position. However, I tend to hang out in bars to do karaoke and I am not attracked to anything more then a very light (like me) drinking male. I know a lot of bikers and I find they have some great values and morals under their vocabulary and tatoos.
Interesting things to say, perspectives, good self-esteem, good and kind to others. None of the things that have to do with stuff. | |
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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/23/2008 3:54:16 PM | | Their are many definations of success, their are some people who have alot of money but they are not happy. They,re are people who have sod all and they are happy. | |
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| Sanitary Engineer or Garbage Man????
Posted: 1/24/2008 10:02:43 AM | Bama_BOB... You couldn't have conveyed it any better. That is exactly what I was saying. It is all about perception and imagery... but for the most part... this only affects the female of our species.
Men of education and status could careless.
Cinderella, Snow White, Rapunzel... ALL got their RICH and POWERFUL Prince CHARMINGs in the End... but what did they bring to the table?... And only Sleeping Beauty was of Royal Blood.
This is Western Imagery and it's taught to our young daughters at very young ages. Our sons are not taught to seek out the Sleeping Beautys.
The Vast Majority of Western(American)women are just not that evolved, socially, to seekout something other than the media driven image of the Ideal Male.
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| Sanitary Engineer or Garbage Man????
Posted: 1/24/2008 11:53:13 AM | I do think that one's "perceived" status / financial worth can be and often is a measure of whether or not that person is deemed to be a good catch ... but not always.
For those who are "stuck" in that mindframe of the importance of status and net worth, I'm sure that they will be quick to keep on steppin' if they are not getting what they need when looking at what the other party makes per year or their job title ... but in my own experience, I don't find that happens very often. I think that if heartspace is truely connected, it matters little.
As for my current position in life, which many consider to be more than a little unconventional / non - traditional form of bringing home the $$$, I have an opportunity to meet and engage people from all different walks of life and socio - economic classes so I have a broad insight into the human dynamic. More times than not, many of those folks who I meet at my job initially have a certain perception of what I do and the person that I "must" be because of the choices that I've made. I'm sure that gives cause for them to think in a limiting way based on their own belief systems and how they live their lives.
Because my occupation involves a dedicated amount of "our" time, I make use of those moments to speak with, educate and enlighten them about who I am, why I have chosen this particular path and why I opted out of the more traditional career that I had held prior ... the two are very different ... I represent myself in such a way that is often contrary to their initial perception ... sometimes these interactions serve too force them to think outside of their own paradigm ... they realize that I am educated, intelligent, ambitious, passionate, hard - working et al despite their initial impression based on ??? ... they see that what I do is honorable and productive and quite rewarding on many different levels ... by the time "our" time together is finished, I'd like too believe that they have, if nothing else, opened themselves to other possibilities / learned not to be so quick to pass judgement.
Point being, I find that many of those people, men and women, may form an opinion based on little more than their egos and own experiences, expectations or comfort zones ... once they are open too broadening their perceptions and thinking outside the box, they are far more likely to expand their vision a bit, rethink their belief system, go with and appreciate that other person for what they contribute even if they don't hold certain perceived status or make a bazillion dollars a year.
jeffery | |
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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/24/2008 11:58:50 AM | Only if he's the last man in her slice of the planet.
"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose." Life becomes amazingly simpler when one shucks the shoulda-woulda-couldas that parents, friends, TV and Western culture in general slaps in yer napsack as a younggin. To my sons I charged them with unloading as much bullshit in their lives as they can...to become real human beings, and not some wussed-out, PW'd facsimile...sheesh, if only I could follow my own advice. | |
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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/24/2008 2:30:17 PM | I have dated "up the ladder" and "down the ladder". Its not the money, but the person that i am interested in. I have had very well paying jobs that i couldnt stand making over $25 an hr. They made me angry on a daily basis. And the best job that i have ever held was working with children with developmental disabilitys.. paying a whole $9.25 an hour ( in New York ). I have dated women from a speech therapist and a teacher to a woman working a target as a cashier. love holds no job ... only your heart!
~Rob   | |
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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/24/2008 3:46:17 PM | Sam Walton came from a small farming community and did not have a high school education. He learned from life and people around him.
It isn't so much the $$ or the position, it is the ambition and direction a person may have. If a man has a dream to be an artist with his own show and makes a determined effort to do so, he has ambition. If a man dreams to be an artist with his own show and buys a paint by number picture, well...
If you stimulate my mind and have the ability to support yourself, then I would date someone considered outside my socio-economic or social class. Sometimes I am required to go to black tie events. If my partner is willing and able to put on a tux, rented or not, and not smell or do rude noises to embarass me, then yes. He is a person whom I would date.
Now, if a man said he had a plan and ambition then tried to mooch off of me for months or years...wait, I wouldn't have allowed it to get that far. And since I don't have kids and do know how to clean my own home, I don't need a house husband.
So, I guess my answer would be yes; it depends on the man. A man with love and goodness has no $$ barriers. Look at the Peace Corps people.
Liz | |
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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/24/2008 5:04:39 PM | | My "success" is nothing major-but I am intelligent, did well in school, went to post secondary school, look after myself and pay the bills. I do not look for "success" in a guy-especially not financial or status related. I look for manners, respect, mutual attraction-and someone that has enough work ethic to pay their bills. I am not in the least impressed with BMWs-but I am impressed with honest/hard working/happy ppl. | |
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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/24/2008 5:21:54 PM | Just want to comment that "success" can be very much a matter of perspective. A woman who has a degree in acounting but can't figure out how to drive a tractor wouldn't be considered successful to a man who makes his living farming(and no they are not all dirt poor ignoramuses)
If the 2 people in a relationship aren't reasonably equal in degree of "success" by commonly accepted standards, there is bound to be some concern by the more successful partner that they are being "used" or "taken advantage of" or maybe the less "successful" partner fears that the more successful partner keeps them around so they can feel superior or "have the upper hand".
Will sucessful women date less successful men? I'm sure some will. Will those be "good" relationships? They might be. But I think the relationships that have the highest chance of success is where the 2 people are more or less on the same financial,educational and intellectual planes.
Cindy O | |
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| Sanitary Engineer or Garbage Man????
Posted: 1/27/2008 7:21:53 PM |
For those who are "stuck" in that mindframe of the importance of status and net worth, I'm sure that they will be quick to keep on steppin' if they are not getting what they need when looking at what the other party makes per year or their job title ...
You remind me of a woman I used to know who married this guy she had known less than 2 months and all she ever had to say about him was about his status and wealth and position and how he was going to take care of her. After the marraige we heard all about the shopping for a new home in the wealthy area and we all got shown the new Hummer and her huge wedding ring. Only a few of us ever found out later that his super bowl ring was fake as was his claim. The Hummer went back to the dealer 3 days later, the house was never bought and he was a major con artist with a trail of relationships behind him.
However, she had to save face. So, they moved out of state and stayed together and few if any other than a couple of us have ever heard about how badly he conned her and all the rest of us (except those of us who couldn't verify the super bowl info in the first place and were uneasy)
Saving face... shudder... no way to live... all smoke and mirrors and lies. | |
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| Sanitary Engineer or Garbage Man????
Posted: 1/28/2008 3:24:33 AM | | To answer the original question, a few will. Most won't. And the relationship will rarely last. Women want to date, and marry, 'up'. I think it might have a lot to do with status among their own; a woman has done 'well for herself' to 'catch' a 'good earner'. I hear these phrases a lot at work, and I work in a female dominated profession. | |
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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/28/2008 6:44:46 AM |
Sam Walton came from a small farming community and did not have a high school education. He learned from life and people around him. Whereas his offspring and grandchildren got ejimacated with their MBAs and promptly applied the NE USA "Profit is GAWD" model to his business, thus ruining it for everyone. I've seen this happen a lot in business...especially in the East and South, where pappy worked his bunz off, sent the kids to college, they came back spoiled and privileged and "attituded" and ran his business into the ground...and many took the profits and paid for their cocaine habits with the proceeds. | |
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| Will successful women date a less sucessful man?
Posted: 1/28/2008 6:50:47 AM | | Yes, but not in the sun lite,,,,Just fun and games ,,,,If one cannot better one's self why PLAY for keeps????""""" I have raised one child,"""",,I hate needy men. $$$$$$$ Today's society is nothing but SEX and Money and maybe it has always been that way. | |
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