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Posted: 2/3/2008 5:58:08 PM | Again, let's focus on the basics.
The Four Noble Truths
1. Life means suffering.
2. The origin of suffering is attachment.
3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.
4. The path to the cessation of suffering.
That message, in it's base, is not much different than the Christian one. Both religions walk along the same road there.
We are bound by our own chains, and the key is (and always has been) in our hands - unnoticed.  | |
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Posted: 2/4/2008 8:14:59 PM |
Further some scientists/philosophers are beginning to understand how immediate and involuntary belief really is and how we have to actually counter the process to not believe. You may believe you are exercising your free will to believe but there is growing evidence that you are programmed to believe that you are exercising your free will by believing.
Do tell, who are these scientists/philosophers of which you speak?
Are you prepared to engage in an actual debate about "eliminative materialism," or is your knowledge limited to what you've read on Wikipedia? | |
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Posted: 2/5/2008 11:20:09 AM |
The Buddhism of the west need not reflect the Buddism of the east. A post-industrial society will deal with the truths revealed through self-introspection differently then would a tribal society.
Thich Nhat Hanh a buddhist monk who I follow the teachings of points out.
"Buddhism adapts to any new culture which it encounters" one of the reasons Tibetan Buddhism is quite different from the other branches. It adsorbed the Tribal customs and folklore (deity's) of the previous culture in Tibet. | |
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Posted: 2/6/2008 8:35:32 PM | check out buddhanet.net lot's of info and you can probably find a local house of worship. They always welcome newcomers to ask questions to find a path. | |
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Posted: 7/22/2008 3:52:27 PM | If you care about whether or not God exists, and have a mystic slant (that is, the belief that God can be directly experienced), look into yoga, perhaps Hinduism. Or maybe the Society of Friends (Quakers).
Buddhism is more an act of sanity than of faith ... even the ultra-religious sects, such as the Tibetan Buddhists, start their teachings off saying there is no God. The hardest thing for new Buddhists is to stop asking God to intervene (beneficially, of course!) in your life. | |
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Posted: 7/22/2008 5:44:37 PM | | There are quite a few practicing Buddhists around. Though I'm not one of them, I do adopt parts of various religions and follow a personal spirituality. I'm not a fan of organized religion - after being brought up in a serious catholic family. Google your local area to find religious groups. You may be able to meet locals with the same interests as you and can help you along your journey. | |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 12:21:51 PM | andsometimeswhy,
Do tell, who are these scientists/philosophers of which you speak?
Are you prepared to engage in an actual debate about "eliminative materialism," or is your knowledge limited to what you've read on Wikipedia?
I have no desire to debate the issue and you can of course look into this just as i did and would recommend you do. I don't see you bringing any points up, as many other so called know it alls that just challenge others instead of adding to the discussion. I've added my thoughts on the subject where's yours?
I'm not here to be challenged by you, i'm here because i have an opinion on the subject, where is yours? You know how the mind works? lol... I don't think anyone knows fully however there are many plausible theories and i've put forth one. Perhaps you have a real opinion? something to share? something to contribute?
Do tell | |
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Posted: 7/27/2008 1:32:19 AM | | Crazy, the OP is likely long since gone on. Stonestongue has left the building (unfortunately). You've made your point that you feel any philosophy can harm you. Now how's about let's let folks interested in buddhism discuss it instead of having to debate your particular line of thought. | |
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Posted: 7/27/2008 3:17:26 AM | ^^^ i tried and tried to not be attached to your post but alas i couldn't do it. I've made no point i've only put forth an idea. Why you so attached to me replying to another poster? It's not that philosophy can harm you it is how philosophy can organize your mind to work in a certain way instead of being free to think and be. Buddhism like any philosophy or religion can be used as a filter instead of directly experiencing something for yourself. The mind craves consistency, organization and a template in which to experience the world.
I'm trying to understand why you've taken it upon yourself to try and shut me up when my thoughts are equally as important as yours?
You've made your point that you feel any philosophy can harm you. Now how's about let's let folks interested in buddhism discuss it instead of having to debate your particular line of thought | |
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Posted: 7/27/2008 5:28:39 AM | For me, one part of life that seems to run through most areas, both internally and externally, is learning balance. I have taken in things both from experiencing them and reading about them in books (which can be transmitters too), and I have gathered what has resonated as truth in me from many wedges of the spiritual pie, including Buddhism.
It has helped tremendously to address the concepts of ego and attachment from that perspective....(seems the more conscious I get, the more I am aware of my attachments! :)....though, like all religions, it seems to me one can get caught up in the almost blind belief that what we feel 'spiritually' is the 'right' view, which tends to make others feel their views are not being honored.
Religion has had the reputation of blind belief for some - the idea of religious dogma. For me, I take what I am shown, taught, read, spoken and feel within and with others and also experienced through meditation, dance, music, and relationships and it becomes truth in me when I feel it, when I experience it.
I know the suffering that comes with attachment. I know the suffering that comes with believing one 'should' not identify with themselves....as if their identity is all ego with no essence....in my mind that is taking these wonderful gems of wisdom to extreme because that is my personal belief about it.
I think Spiritual truths, wisdom and paths are all here to help each person who wishes to walk them find 'tools' for growth and meaning in life, to really find or remember compassion and ultimately acceptance and love both internally and externally....and I believe these 'truths' are open for all who wish to look. The exclusivity of formal relgion is where I find conflict in me....to say, I am a Buddhist, or I am a Jew, or I am Catholic is labelling (imo), and I've never been very good at accepting labels others have put on me.
Equally, I believe it is not right for me, either, to say what is right for another, for then it feels I am so attached to my beliefs that it takes away my humanity or respect for others. What I know of Buddhism, when in balance, can be a great light on the path.....one of many lights, all shining really in the same direction, essentially (imo). | |
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Posted: 7/27/2008 4:27:08 PM |
The mind craves consistency, organization and a template in which to experience the world.
Some minds. Not all. Not going to get into a protracted discussion with you. Only that I was enjoying all the posts that are actually about buddhism and not the lengthy dispute between the two of you on side issues. If you wish to claim that buddhism/philosophy are harmful, maybe start a thread on that topic. | |
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Posted: 7/27/2008 5:12:31 PM | | ^^^^ you proved my point with your comment, and if you enjoy talking about Buddhism i encourage you to do so instead of challenging and trying to shut me up. And what i am saying has a lot to do with buddhism just so happens you can't see it. | |
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Posted: 7/28/2008 1:18:47 PM | | I spent a couple years in Bangkok, Thailand and had many Thi friends that were of the faith called" Buddhism" and I found it to be a very enlighting learning curve for me and you know it was around long before our Baptist faith{Which I am} So learn all you can and have an open mind and I think" Love is God" and God is Love.}}}}}}}}}}} | |
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Posted: 7/15/2009 9:01:24 AM | i too follow thich nhat hahn...with his mindful breath..
he teaches the 3 jewels of buddhism...
buddha (enlightened one)
dharma (the teachings)
sangha (the community)
he also teaches that buddhism is a practice, not a religion (i guess that's why it took me so long to find you here!!)...i remember years ago reading in 'the sun' magazine an article titled 'the zen of judaism'...the author talked about how his mindful practice enhanced the religion of his roots...it was a beautiful article...
for me personally, my life is richer and more meaningful, practicing under thich nhat hahn's light | |
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Posted: 7/15/2009 9:36:36 AM | | I don't believe one can be a practicing Buddhist without regularly meditating. Buddhism is not a system of beliefs it a tangible, physical practice. In Buddhism no one is encourage to believe anything abstractly, one in encouraged to discover for oneself. | |
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Posted: 7/15/2009 5:22:01 PM | xz...i totally agree...
i posted this this morning in the buddhist thinking thread on the poetry/quote forum..
to meditate means to be invited on a journey of
looking deeply in order to touch our true nature
and to recognize that nothing is lost...
~thich nhat hahn | |
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Posted: 7/16/2009 5:20:42 PM | RE Msg: 101 by Montreal_Guy:
Again, let's focus on the basics. The Four Noble Truths
1. Life means suffering.
2. The origin of suffering is attachment.
3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.
4. The path to the cessation of suffering. That message, in it's base, is not much different than the Christian one. Both religions walk along the same road there. We are bound by our own chains, and the key is (and always has been) in our hands - unnoticed.
If POF has taught me anything, it is that my attachment to posting on the forums, and my attachment to taking just about anything that anyone says here seriously, has been the source of any difficulties that I have experienced here. | |
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Posted: 7/20/2009 9:42:00 PM | buddhism is more than the four noble truths (although they are important as well)...being a follower of thich nhat hahn, a vietnamese zen buddhist monk, i though i would share some of his trainings....
Five Mindfulness Trainings
The Five Mindfulness Trainings were developed during the time of the Buddha to be the foundation of practice for the entire practice community, including monastic and lay members. The basis for the trainings is mindfulness.
All Sangha members and guests are requested to observe these trainings to support our practice of mindfulness and living harmoniously together. No smoking, no drinking and no sexual misconduct constitute part of the Five Mindfulness Trainings to be observed at a practice center.
The Five Mindfulness Trainings protect our freedom and make life beautiful. As guidelines for our daily lives they are the basis of happiness for individuals, couples, families and society.
___________________________________
The First Training: Aware of the suffering caused by the destruction of life, I vow to cultivate compassion and learn ways to protect the lives of people, animals, plants and minerals. I am determined not to kill, not to let others kill, and not to condone any act of killing in the world, in my thinking and in my way of life.
The Second Training: Aware of the suffering caused by exploitation, social injustice, stealing and oppression, I vow to cultivate loving kindness and learn ways to work for the well-being of people, animals, plants and minerals. I vow to practice generosity by sharing my time, energy, and material resources with those in real need. I am determined not to steal and not to possess anything that should belong to others. I will respect the property of others, but I will prevent others from profiting from human suffering or the suffering of other species on earth.
The Third Training: Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I vow to cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and integrity of individuals, couples, families and society. I am determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a long-term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I am determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of others. I will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual abuse and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual misconduct.
The Fourth Training: Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech and the inability to listen to others, I vow to cultivate loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness to others and relieve others of suffering. Knowing that words can create happiness or suffering, I vow to learn to speak truthfully, with words that inspire self-confidence, joy and hope. I am determined not to spread news that I do not know to be certain and not to criticize or condemn things of which I am not sure. I will refrain from uttering words that can cause division or discord; or words that can cause the family or the community to break. I will make all efforts to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small.
The Fifth Training: Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful consumption, I vow to cultivate good health, both physical and mental, for myself, my family, and my society by practicing mindful eating, drinking and consuming. I vow to ingest only items that preserve peace, well being, and joy in my body, in my consciousness, and in the collective body and consciousness of my family and society. I am determined not to use alcohol or any other intoxicant or to ingest foods or other items that contain toxins, such as certain TV programs, magazines, books, films and conversations. I am aware that to damage my body and my consciousness with these poisons is to betray my ancestors, my parents, my society and future generations. I will work to transform violence, fear, anger and confusion in myself and in society by practicing a diet for myself and for society. I understand that a proper diet is crucial for self transformation and the transformation of society. | |
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Posted: 7/21/2009 5:08:30 AM | ^^^Thank you for posting this, rosie!!
By far it is the best post I have ever read on pof....
Thank you thich nhat hahn for valuing life and all living beings so deeply.
Your vows and commitments to the well-being of all through the five mindfulness trainings
I pray spread through the world like wildfire. I do know today they have reached me.
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Posted: 7/21/2009 8:07:43 PM | my life is certainly more richer because of him....
'The almond tree is itself truth, reality, your own self. Of all the people who have passed by your yard, how many have really seen the almond tree? The heart of an artist may be more sensitive; hopefully he or she will be able to see the tree in a deeper way than many others. Because of a more open heart, a certain communion already exists between the artist and the tree. What counts is your own heart. If your heart is not clouded by false views, you will be able to enter into a natural communion with the tree. The almond tree will be ready to reveal itself to you in complete wholeness. To see the almond tree is to see the way.'
~Thich Nhat Hanh | |
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Posted: 7/24/2009 1:45:36 PM | As a practicing buddhist, I can only tell you what Buddhism is to me, but I would invite you to research the system and come to your own conclusions, as that is the "prime directive" upon which all Buddhism is based.
The system itself has a 2600 year history of unbroken transmission from teacher to student and all of it documented, translated, and carefully preserved across (and in spite of) numerous divergences in the minutia of application.
The links others have recommended are certainly helpful to understanding the system and its various transitions over time.
The foundational tenets (terma) within the system are based upon several key premises and concepts that are intended to help one find one's way to the reality that all learning is conducted and ultimately accomplished in oneself:
(1) Ngrondo (The Four Thoughts That Turn The Mind)
http://www.wickeddakini.com/2009/06/about-ngrondo/
(I post my own link because the Ngrondo practice is not one that is usually available online. My apologies if that offends anyone as I would hope it to be obvious that such is not my intent.)
(2) The Four Noble Truths (Four premises that further the mind's training and focus)
http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html
(3) The Eight-Fold Path (Eight concepts for living a beneficial and productive life)
http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html
(4) The Six Paramitas (Six virtues a being should strive for in life and their relations)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%81ramit%C4%81
Depending upon one's choice of tradition, the practices vary, though all adhere with surprising consistency to the above foundations. Ultimately, The Buddha said it best:
“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
I maintain a small and probably pitiful blog where I explore these concepts for myself and document them both for my own practice and remembrance as well as on the off-chance that they might be helpful to anyone else:
http://www.wickeddakini.com
Regardless your choices, all steps are upon a path and all paths lead to learning. I wish for you happiness and the causes of happiness, that you be liberated from sorrow and the causes of sorrow, and that your every moment be free from attachment and aversion.
Namaste. | |
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Posted: 7/25/2009 10:33:33 PM | ....may i add....
To meditate does not mean to fight with a problem.
To meditate means to observe.
Your smile proves it.
It proves that you are being gentle with yourself,
that the sun of awareness is shining in you,
that you have control of your situation.
You are yourself,
and you have acquired some peace.
~Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh
mindfulnessbell.org/thay.htm
http://www.plumvillage.org/ | |
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Posted: 7/25/2009 11:30:26 PM | I watched Buddhist tales on TV as a boy, and when 18, shortly before repentance to Jesus tried Zen meditation,..
Buddha, my mum told me, as she is from India, never claimed he was a god. He was a prince and gave it up for philosophy and a search...
Buddhism differs from Christendom in that Buddhist believe in more than one life before conclusions, Christians believe in judgment at the end of one life.
Buddhist hold that by great effort and good works, some of which are listed here, that they can create an afterlife utopia.
It falls short with me on telling where it came from, who judges, who makes it, and who made Buddha.
Being Evangelical, I believe is salvation and justification and destiny all by the power and wisdom of the Trinity, apart from self effort.
And that there is an author of life and love, in the Trinity, And an author of evil and death, in Lucifer and his cohorts. They fight to father us after we are born and growing up. Children and ones who receive Christ's work and presence have eternal life in dying, and people mastered by evils like murder or adultery, are children of the evil one, in death they go into the world below.
I think Buddhist believe they go into a new life as an unfortunate animal.
Interesting thing about Buddha, that like Jesus, He gave his blood for a lioness that was hungry, as it was starving and could not feed it's cubs.
Buddha also was an historical figure.
But never was it said his justice was perfect, and he did not die and rise up over death.
He did not have power or outpour a great presence and power...
In Australia, there are so many Buddhists! Unlike the US Aussies are out numbered by immigrants.
Buddhist like in Vietnam were sometimes extremists pacifists, burning themselves to death on TV, while meditating sitting still.
They as seen here on previous pages are nice people with a kind of benevolent philosophy. But I don't know why they worship Buddha and call him lord.
Buds is an affectionate name for for younger relatives in Indian families. Many Hindus go to Buddhism. And some Christians. And last I heard 35,000 Chinese each week risk themselves in becoming Christian. They want Bibles. | |
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Posted: 7/26/2009 7:06:54 AM | Csonka...
thank you for sharing your perspective....i remember the buddhist monks in vietnam protesting the war..the image forever engraved in my brain...they were following buddha's dharma... protecting the suffering of others...oh, it was an extreme act for sure...one i could/would never do.
buddhism is similar to christianity in the fact that different people practice each differently (there are extremist in most religions i imagine...and beauty as well..)
again, you are correct..buddha is not a lord...he is simply enlightened...and shares that we all are able to be enlightened..he does not profess he is god...it is very clear in his teachings..
i am not searching for afterlife in any religion (i was raised catholic)...i am simply walking a path that is comfortable for me...i do not judge anyone for their beliefs...and sincerely appreciate what you have shared..
rosie | |
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