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 MrBad_Kitty
Joined: 4/28/2007
Msg: 101
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Fortune Tellers are Evil?Page 5 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Peter and Paul encounter witches and sorcerers in Acts, but don't hate them, one is saved. Kindness is important. – too bad that part was glossed over during the burning times and when the church slapped churches on pagan worship sites.

So firstly He's for us, the Hebrew and gentile. Witches under Moses were a big threat. In a time before grace and power of the cross. So the only thing they could do is kill them or exile them. – sounds like running the competition out of town to me.

Secondly God having said something was challenged by Satan to make it true, Satan trying to cause God to lie. Then the father of all liars wins, God dies. Satan was the Angel of Truth and only spoke the truth. That’s why he was kicked out.

Jesus grace was enough to save 11 disciples and Matthew. And Rome was turned upside down. once Christianity took over Rome, then it died. Constantine was more concerned with taking power from the Pagan churches, then Christianity as a moral guideline. Besides after christ died, it took Rome 500 or more years to go down the tube.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 102
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/1/2007 10:35:47 PM


The witches in Exodus were competition that could lead to Israel sinning...

In Genesis 3:15 God made a promise ...

Secondly God having said something was challenged by Satan to make it true...

So firstly He's for us, the Hebrew and gentile...

Since the resurrection Jesus can save witches...

Peter and Paul encounter witches and sorcerers in Acts, but don't hate them, one is saved. Kindness is important....




You still don't get it...I mean REALLY don't get it.

All of this stuff you are going on about is relevant to you because you believe it but you are spewing it at us over and over again as if it is literal fact rather than part of your faith's mythology. And mythology is all that it is: it is the subjective belief of your particular faith.

On top of which you've gone well over the line of what could be considered delivering a sermon, rather than just forming an argument...I mean do you have some conception of how to do that? I think it is pretty clear what the Christian standpoint on "fortune-telling" is and why...but do you have anything new to add or are you just trolling out the same side show here?

*Mister Mackie voice a'la South Park* "Fortune telling is bad, mmm'kay...don't do fortune telling...fortune telling leads to Satan...Satan's bad, mmm'kay?"

Ok Mr. Mackie.

But to anyone not of the Christian faith, or one of the other desert monotheist faiths, this doesn't amount to a hill of beans, and has been already pointed out by me and others, from an anthropological/sociological point of view, it's just a case of one tribe claiming it's "juju" is right and holy, while another tribe's is evil and cursed.

Frankly if you can't see that, even as a devout believer, then you are either thick, fully washed in the brain, or some combination of the two...and continuing to harp on about the theology, which I can assure you we ALL know by now, is pretty damn pointless.

Does ANYONE have a new err angle on this?
 Csonka
Joined: 11/21/2004
Msg: 103
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Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/1/2007 11:08:34 PM
According to the Bible, God causes no evil by turning, and cannot lie, death came through sin and Satan, sin is from Satan and death is a spirit which according to Paul, lost it's sting.


Would you like verses?
 Csonka
Joined: 11/21/2004
Msg: 104
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Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/1/2007 11:14:36 PM
There is no account of a truth angel kicked out from heaven. A new invention there.

Rome like all ancient civilisations broke down.

Was Constantine a christian, is he in wikipedia?

I agree that medieval persecution was unfair. I don't take responsibility, and yes, Jesus didn't want that. It must be washed off Christianity, our nmae is cleansing not unclean. Justice and discernment... the so called nobles which became violent we call "yobs" these days.

I agree that Moses went to great lengths to clear Israel of witches.
 Elfenlass
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 105
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/2/2007 1:48:08 PM
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"
Actually that part of the Bible was translated from Arabic and originally read: "Thou shalt not suffer a sorcerer/ess to live." The word for 'sorcerer/ess' being non gender specific.

As for the 'competition for what?'...
For the upperhand on the religion as well as purse strings of the masses. They didn't want anyone else to be doing any of the prediciting. Heck, they didn't want anyone else to be doing *anything* when it came to religion. Only them. Thus the 'join our religion or be killed' attitude of old.

Yeah... I really can't do this conversation anymore. I can see that it's only going to go in teeny tiny little circles....
:D
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 106
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/2/2007 8:47:52 PM

According to the Bible, God causes no evil by turning, and cannot lie, death came through sin and Satan, sin is from Satan and death is a spirit which according to Paul, lost it's sting.


Actually that's only according to YOUR interpretation of the Bible...it is far from universally accepted and far from even being a universal interpretation amongst all of Christendom...it certainly is not the interpretation amongst the Jews or Muslims.

And really at this point, you are just preaching and trolling your particular view as if it is singular Gospel, and continuing to do so is more than sufficient grounds to have your posts reported to the mods. You really ought to take some time to A) learn a little religious tolerance to faith views not your own and B) learn how to put together a formal argument.

This is not a place to test your candidacy for the pulpit...this is a discussion forum. Most of the readers here, I daresay over 2/3rds of them have sufficient grounding in Christian theology or access to the information and don't need a Sunday School lesson in every post. It really does get tiresome after awhile and must get so even for the Christian readers. Please try to learn how to formulate an argument.


I agree that Moses went to great lengths to clear Israel of witches.


This sort of bizarre claim is really meaningless unless you have some inkling of what you are talking about in historical context...and frankly it seems pretty clear you don't. Sh** or get off the pot, sir.
 3DBill
Joined: 8/2/2006
Msg: 107
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Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/3/2007 10:56:06 AM
I love the forums-I surf through them, butdon't often post on them. I was drawn into this one by checking out a local woman's profile&following her trail into here. The title caught my eye, as I have some strong feelings on the subject of psychics, "paranormal", etc. In a nutshell: its all God's gifts, all of it.....
I'm a serious fallen Catholic-a former Catholic school badboy. Turned my back almost totally on God, was disillusioned with God, sometimes got pissed off at & shook my fist at God. I talked great spiritual talk but did a lot less walking the walk than talking the talk for decades. About 5 or 6 years ago I started straying into walking the walk territory. I danced on the edge, & pulled back, crept out&peered over the edge&hung out a little longer, & pulled back again. Did this afew times. sometimes I crept up to the edge&peered over it furtively, sometimes I sat right on the edge&dangled my legs & hung out there. Finally found God- with whom I had a pretty good relationship when young&into my midteens-again. Though, don't ask me to explain exactly who or what God is to me. God is a lot of things to me. &-please-don't PREACH the bible at me....
Some people have that gift-referred to as fortune-telling in the title of this thread, but I think of it as " a/the psychic gift". Some more than others, & I doubt that anyone hasn't had brushes with it, either witnessing it or actually having it affect them. I could write a few paragraphs telling of things I've seen happen&have had happen to me, & I can't deny the reality of these experiece's.there's a lot of quacks out there, & crooks, & there are people who are gifted but don't know how to use it properly, or lack the character to use it properly. Fundamentalist Christians, & many devout Catholics who I have known, seem terrified at the prospect that this, or any other "paranormal" phenonoma might exist in our world, & are convinced that "stuff like that" can only come from one place, & it aint god. But, I believe that they're gifts that God gave us. God doesn't want us to abuse it, or other gifts such as the vastness of the universe,beautiful sunrise's&sunsets, an ice cream cone, the ability to love, the ability to love again, sex/drugs/rock&roll, a heartbeat, a breath...all of God's gifts were given to us, to use, to enjoy. Don't be afraid of God's gifts. But if you are afraid, PLEASE shut up&let those of us who aren't appreciate them&, make use of them to help us help ourselves, & enjoy them...
(the prededing is, of course, IMHO)
 trippy_hare
Joined: 5/30/2006
Msg: 108
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/4/2007 2:46:14 AM
I've seen far more cons than legitimate 'gifts'. And of those that were legitimate: once I started paying attention, it was easy to see how much info the questioner really gave out to the person doing the reading, be it Tarot reading, palm reading, crystal reading... shit, even phrenology. If you're clever enough to pick up the subtle cues people give off and enough of a showman to keep them from knowing they told you anything, it's easy to make a living doing paranormal things.
 QGorgo
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 109
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Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/28/2007 5:39:19 PM
Competition, for what, money, fame?
Why is always about money and fame? Life is NOT all about money and fame.

You say this:

If you look into the future and a fortune teller gives you bad news, do you want to be locked into that destiny?


Then you say this:


God knew about WW2. If I know the future from Him, and there is difficulty, I'd take heed, or try. If there was opportunity, I'd want it.

WW2 was BAD NEWS and everybody involved in IT was locked into THAT destiny the only difference HERE is that you are saying that God was involved in it so it makes it ok... or you accept it and not be angry as you state here:

If the Spirit gave you a warning, would you accept it or be angry?



But a spirit would hide the danger and the opportunity, and tell me something about a pretty young woman looking for a husband... something like that.

Prey tell how would you know this? Have you ever been contacted by something other than God? Is your diety the Christian God? If so you have no grasp of the concept you are trying to explain away. The phrase "and tell me something about a pretty young woman looking for a husband... something like that" says THAT loud and clear.


I thought everyone knew about angels of light and darkness.

This is a christian concept.


I mean hypothetically, should a little Jewish girl in 1942 ask strangers in Germany for directions? The spirits are like this, like Nazi soldiers. But dead and unrelentant.

Wow...you just are loaded with such accurate information on pagansim (basically) for a Christian person...NOT! Stick with christianity...tis what you seem to know best.


According to the Bible, God causes no evil by turning, and cannot lie, death came through sin and Satan, sin is from Satan and death is a spirit which according to Paul, lost it's sting.
You are applying Christian concepts to something that for the most part IS NOT... that is like comparing apples to oranges and all you end up doing is spewing nonsense and spouting and preaching a sermon. If you want to do that and trash other's beliefs than dont ask the question in the thread topic (whomever the OP is) JUST have the guts to DO IT ffs! Jeez that is so decietful.


Would you like verses?
Most of us are quite versed in the Bible, thank you though.
 The Black Knight
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 110
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/28/2007 7:54:24 PM
What does evil mean? My dictionary says something done that is wicked or morally wrong.

I guess then we all do evil things. As a miserable cuss that I can be I am glad I have a savior.
Before I understood that God exist I would say I was lost. Now, if I need to know the future I would seek God.

To me a fortune teller is either lost in a belief system that offers no savior or just a good con artist seeking money.
 chinua
Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 111
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/28/2007 8:06:00 PM
how about someone who needs no savior- someone who is fine the way they are. So, its ok if you say it comes from god; but if you say it isn't- it's either evil or a lie..
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 112
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/28/2007 8:13:33 PM

To me a fortune teller is either lost in a belief system that offers no savior or just a good con artist seeking money.


And many people, as you are no doubt aware would level a very similar charge, worded only a little differently, at your own faith. How I wonder does that make you feel? Probably not very good I would imagine. I'm sure you will now tell me how in no wise such a comparison can be made because your faith is "real" and what a diviner does is just "made up" and not see any problem at all with your statement...
 The Black Knight
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 113
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/28/2007 8:43:00 PM
Fiddler: It is not for me to worry or fret at what you or any other person thinks of what I believe. I find no spiritual gain in it and would be a fool to let my feelings be hurt in whatever you think or say. I actually find you amusing.
 Quest for Love
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 114
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/29/2007 2:58:23 AM
its a control issue
 chinua
Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 115
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/29/2007 8:55:27 AM
blackknight- why do you need to be insulting? That last comment was very patronising.
 trippy_hare
Joined: 5/30/2006
Msg: 116
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/29/2007 12:34:10 PM
It's the same ethnocentrism that runs rampant in monotheistic faiths.

Eastern faiths are far more accepting, especially Hinduism. According to some of the Hindus I've spoken with, everyone on Earth is a Hindu, even if they are something else. So there is no real 'right path' or 'wrong path', per se.

It's like the old Spanish proverb: "All roads lead to Rome." Rome, of course, being God. It doesn't matter how you get there, so long as you make the effort.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 117
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/29/2007 12:55:05 PM
Blacknight and I sorted it out, no harm done folks...we have agreed to disagree but he was given a short vacation from this thread.
 Love_on_fire
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 118
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/29/2007 1:12:39 PM
Personally I would be very cautious of them. I don't think they are on the good side as it relates to where they get their "information".

I am against what they do personally, and they are not healthy to be around in my opinion.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 119
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/29/2007 2:09:21 PM
I would say see posts 111, and 112 for opinions that you might find oppose yours and realise that as the shoe is on the other foot, that others may feel the exact same way about where you get your own "information" and wonder why that is for a minute. Is this bias from either side realistic? Healthy? Founded on any kind of rational principle?

Or in reality does it just stem from basic tribalism...our magic, heap good, miracle sent by god!...your magic heap bad...make crops fail, women barren, animals die, wife no want me...me burn your magic maker!

 The Black Knight
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 120
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/29/2007 5:41:01 PM
All is cool....the discussion was held private where it needed to be sorted out. I was a bit tired last night from painting all day and not careful with my words. I certainly don't like arrogance and perhaps came across that way. I just hold strong beliefs but realize being pushy is not the way to go. mosttimes agreeing to disagree works well.
 chinua
Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 121
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 5/29/2007 6:52:36 PM
.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................^^^^ being pushy is definately not the way to go!!
 Isispriest
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 122
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/1/2007 6:04:13 AM
I am a Pagan Witch and a fortune teller! If someone thinks this is evil, then don't get a Reading!
Through the Grace of the Goddess I am given a gift to sense beyond the limitations of time and space. People consult with me, because of this ability. Though I think we all have it to some extent.
I find it amusing that police use psychics and the USA government used "remote viewing". Personally, I cannot comprehend why anyone would think that the Bible is the word of God. Inspirational stories at best, no more profound than the Koran, Upanishads, or Tolkien. But not as interesting as Philip K.****
 The Unexpected
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 123
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/4/2007 10:02:41 AM
Like any gift from god it is neither good nor bad it just is. How it is used is more important. The problem comes in when it is abused. Always remember the future can be changed . God gave us free will. With that in mind when used as a tool to help people see the path they are on and make positive changes it is used as intended. My thoughts on the subject only.
 looking for love 2nd x
Joined: 8/12/2006
Msg: 124
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/9/2007 3:03:44 PM
hhhhhmmmm, I have thaught about this many many times.

not as to fortune tellers being evil, just in general fortune tellers and horoscopes????

I found a book it's called "Understanding The Dreams You Dream" by Ira Milligan
It is just like a dream book only with Biblical quotes for hearing God's words. Am I sinning? Maybe........but only when I peek into my horoscope on line.

I wouldn't go to a fortune teller to talk to the dead! I do that when I light a candle in Church.
 storm300x
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 125
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/20/2007 2:10:39 AM
i am a witch, so was my mother and her mother before her... i have been doing tarot since i was 12yrs old... i help people with alternative meds and done magik for the good of other people... its not evil... its how other religions have branded us... for the fear of losing control of the crowds... i have a good heart and i am a pagan... blessed be
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