| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/26/2006 6:16:27 PM | at late
[-A kibbutz, ...which also fits the definition of "democracy", is a classless society that shares it's wealth.-]
^.............you can qualify a kibbutz as a "democracy" only to the extent that those who partake in it are WILLING participants!!!!...........and for that matter you can call it whatever the heck you want, BUT then what do you do with pple who don't wanna be part of the collective???..........Now lets extrapolate this onto the communist ideal!.....historically, such pple were: a)interned b)re-educated c)executed.....or a combination thereof.......So, for such a person who doesn't wish to live in a kibbutz (or in Amish country) he/she can simply leave.......but if you are living within a classless nation then where does one leave for?....other than being a refugee, there is no other option...RESISTANCE IS FUTILE
collectives such as Kibbutzes(which, by the way, is not a closed system) can only thrive in democratic societies to begin with, which is the source of critical and innovative thought!......once you establish a collective body, individualism is not an imperative, and one must conform to the body of this entity.....and this is something that is completely appalling to me! | |
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kempca
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Joined: 7/24/2005
Msg: 27 | |
| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/26/2006 9:12:33 PM | | It is fair to question such things and if you choose to believe that the bible is a work of fiction/propaganda/or some sort of conspiracy that is also fair. Why however, do you feel the need to call people who don't share your beliefs 'small minded'? You are probably like me and get frustrated when other's use their religion for political gain or try to impose their values and beliefs on you. Don't stoop to their level. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/26/2006 10:24:40 PM | sum1reel,
Can this theory of space time beginning be proven? No. It is theory, What happened before the begining of our univers then if "linear" time does exist? Think about it. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 29 | |
| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/27/2006 7:27:28 AM |
Now lets extrapolate this onto the communist ideal!.....historically
Communism "the label", was/is actually not "communism", but totalitarianism, in the case of the old USSR, it was "Stalinism". As a doctrine, (meaning of the word), it really is only seen in practice by those who chose it democratically.
....once you establish a collective body, individualism is not an imperative, and one must conform to the body of this entity.....and this is something that is completely appalling to me!
Sounds like organized religion. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/27/2006 8:07:59 AM | To expand on Late's comments,
Communism is an economic system and not a political one. Democracy, Totalitarianism, Autocracy, Oligarchy, Dictatorships, are all political systems. Communism and capitalism are economic ideals and should not be confused with the political ones I mentioned. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/27/2006 11:01:35 AM | Ahhhh...pretty sure there is almost no point to even get into this discussion other then voicing my personal belief.
If you want to believe in organized religion you may do so,just don't try to force or make me feel guilty into not believing.
As far as science goes it can be just as fanatical,intellectuals have for the most part the unfortunate ability to not be able to just let things go.
In conclusion i find religion interesting,but much too restrictive and science interesting for allowing me to see other possibilities,but at times too serious and just as fanatical.
The only thing in this life i had to rely on is me,no saviour to save me,no science that answers what doesn't bring up even more questions.
It's all interesting,but i take all i hear with a grain of salt because in the end it all does jack shit for me(That's my religion.) | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/27/2006 6:39:39 PM | | I think people should quite blaming "religion" for their "guilt." It's ones own conscience that causes guilt and that is something that is built in you over the years. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/27/2006 7:08:12 PM |
So, for such a person who doesn't wish to live in a kibbutz (or in Amish country) he/she can simply leave.......but if you are living within a classless nation then where does one leave for?....other than being a refugee, there is no other option...RESISTANCE IS FUTILE
One could also ask if a person was living in a classed nation and wish to leave where do they leave for? I would argue that this person would have less options (almost none).
Also I believe (having only read about them) the kibbutz, the majority anyways, have wandered from communism to the point where I would not call them by this name.
As for the op which I agree putting ultimate (for lack of a better word) faith in text written and translated by strangers a long time ago is rather foolish. But it is no joke I find it to be a quite serious problem. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/27/2006 9:54:01 PM | | Do you know what your problem is Noga? You are thinking. Religion and thinking don't mix, that is why there is the concept of faith. By definition faith is not thinking just believing. If you want to think you should try the sciences. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 3:40:24 AM | | ^^^^That's ridiculous. You can't get to a real faith without reason. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 5:43:56 AM | Anyone who's seen my posts etc..... will likley know where I stand....
Im not a fan of organized religions or the Bible as a factual tool of the divine...
It is "in my opinion" A book filled with some wonderful moral strategies and beliefs......but for the most part I do not put any stock into stories that "I feel" are written by man for man....
Its stories and timelines are "in my opinion" pretty easily discounted.......
Religion is about Fath.......belief in the intangable......not questioning etc...
whereis Science is about disproving.......discovering, hypothesising and then setting out to disprove your findings as a way to prove your results......
Scince has always and will always be about questioning.....
Faith has always and will always be about blind belief......
I believe if you do not question.....you do not learn.....and as human being....that is one of our greatest gifts.....the ability to question everything in attempt to find the truth..
Just my 2 cents
good luck | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 6:12:08 AM |
That's ridiculous. You can't get to a real faith without reason.
I would agree with this premise, but many religions would not. Ever heard this: "Our's is not to reason why (?)" It's something that's said when they can't give you an answer.
Without reason Religion is a dysfunctional family. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 3:53:59 PM | the problem as I see it, is multifacted. yes, religion may seem like a joke. But I ask you what has religion got to do with God? From my perspective it has very little to do with God.
As for the earth being creeated 6000 years ago. We can 1) assume that it is an analogy, or 2) assume that these are God's years and 6000 of God's years may equal 6 billion of ours, or 3) that it has something to do with the concept of, if a tree falls in the forest and no-one is there to here it. Does it make any noise? In other words if there was no one recording the fact that the earth existed. Did it even exist? Therefore some 6000 years ago might corelate with the beginning of recorded history.
And with respect to the concept of One divine power. Modern science is proving that today. , in particular quantum physics. At the subatomic level evrything becomes unified. In fact everything is made of energy. Both what we consider animate and inanimate. Things that we perceive as solid are in fact bound energy and again subatomically are very difficult to differentiate from , say, something that is gaseous.
Finally, to all those that differentiate between one God and another. There is only One God. The thing is that different cultures have put different spins on It(GOD), and because we are so egotistically driven , we always have to be right and they have to be wrong. And so due to ego we differentiate among ourselves. But at the core of all religious belief is the concept of Love, and if we all spent more time focusing on this similarity, than the differences, then this world would be a much better place. And in the end, if you are a Believer, then you have to accept that this is all according to God's Plan. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 4:16:16 PM | Well late,, anywhere can be a place of fellowship!!!!! | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 4:55:51 PM | This is exactly why participating in a thread such as this is an exercise in futility.
Arguing over the semantics doesn't get anyone anywhere.
A prime example being the debate of guilt.
Of course guilt is stemming from your own consciousness,but so what?
As far as guilt building up over time all i can say is exactly.
Guilt is a subtle form of manipulation of which especially the overwhelming masses involved in organized religions love to take advantage of.
Thankfully we no longer live in a time where it is against the law to choose your own beliefs.
For instance your told you will go to hell and will be punished if you do not follow whatever,fill in the blank.
Or as in ancient times be threatened with or put too death for not adhering to the "rules of the church."
Being threatened with a form of retaliation by "God",or as history has documented,"God's servants" does tend to play on someone's mind and create a way of thinking in ourselves that we are doing something wrong by opposing the church,especially for the weak minded or young and impressionable.
As a youngster growing up in a catholic family i felt this of course when i didn't know any better,and it is a slow process over the years,"guilt" is all the more effective that way.
As far as Religion having "no blame",a technically appropiate statement.
It is however the religious followers who carry out the job to impose it on other people.
I'm sure years ago when people were killed for opposing god and religion that it was there "guilt" that was responsible(sarcasm.) | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 5:36:42 PM | Katman......thanks for the input
we kinda still agree on what science is.....yes it is about understanding
but
the scientific principal follows the steps of a hypothesis.....then setting out to disprove
your expected outcome.......therefore hopefully finding your way back to your origional hypothesis.........
leaps in scientific study are forever engriched by one scientist trying to disprove another...
off topic......I know
good luck..... | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 6:23:11 PM | Two bits
"That's ridiculous. You can't get to a real faith without reason."
This is not what you have been arguing about earlier. Everytime I would point out problems and inconsistencies with the bible, you would just declare that it is because I don't believe. If faith cannot be upheld with reason then what does that say about faith? | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 6:37:55 PM | | ^^^We have never had this argument. You have never asked about "faith." We have NEVER discussed how one gets to faith. It is something you just disregard. And, whatever "argument" we had, it is not on this thread. Are you some kind of forum stalker or something? | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 6:43:48 PM | Two bits
We have had other arguments involving problems with the bible....which you have dismissed by stating that I do not have faith. Do you have forum alzheimer's? | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 6:50:23 PM | | ^^^Yes, we have disucussed that IN OTHER THREADS. Not this one. . And you do not have faith. We have NEVER discussed how one gets faith. When "how one gets faith comes up in a thread" maybe it will be discussed then. Now, stalk someone else please. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 7:02:15 PM | So I will address this to other people in the thread because Mr. Two-bits thinks I am "stalking" him. UGHH...what an ugly person to stalk....yecch. Like Lord Dave has said, when people take it personally like Two-bits is doing, it means they are losing the argument.
Anyhow, I guess some people will just end up contradicting themselves so we will leave it at that. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 7:32:37 PM | | ^^I havent resorted to the name calling, so I would look again at who is taking it personal. Since I have not contradicted myself, I once again, couldnt imagine what you are talking about. "but we will just leave it at that." | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 7:52:29 PM | I was simply responding to your ludicrous "stalking" and since you responded to me directly...I will respond back. I prefer to have the last word on this one as I gave you the luxury last time before you decided to react to my posts later on.
If you don't want to respond or exchange on a forum then don't post anything on the forum. You only snipe anyways like a bitter old man. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 8:36:28 PM | at late
[-Communism "the label", was/is actually not "communism", but totalitarianism-]
^........you are just playing with words here!........first off, when an ideology is drafted that promulgates a utopia of classeless-ness, uniform distribution of "wealth" (and whatnot), and one-ness........it bears the imprint of totalitarianism, THAT IS, the 'totality' is borne out in its very ideology.
[-Sounds like organized religion-]
well, if we can establish(such as it was with most communist states), that 'organized religions' exists for their own cause (rather than for the cause they were established for), then i would agree! | |
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