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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 8:44:30 PM | at kind irish
[-What happened before the begining of our univers then if "linear" time does exist? Think about it.-]
^..........what is there to think about?........you are saying that linear time is a concoction of the human mind?.............and you are asking for 'proof' to the contrary?.......i could ask the same of your own view, since the burden of proof is on you! | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/28/2006 10:14:59 PM | OP, you packed a lot in that little post of yours. I'd like to explain. As another poster pointed out, we have the geneaology that covers the time frame. The carbon-dating and all that have been covered, but no one has mentioned that an almighty God who can create an entire universe wouldn't have any trouble creating something old  It didn't all have to be brand new. Adam and Eve certainly weren't!
As far as facts, many of the things in the Bible have been proven true by ancient texts discovered by archeaologists, by eye-witness accounts written at the time, even Jesus Christ's life, death, and resurrection from the dead has more reliable proofs than we have that Julius Caesar even lived. I would invite any of you who doubt it, to do the research. If you'd rather not, read the research done by those who held your opinions until they did the research.
Religion is a joke! Actually, I agree with you. Religion is man's (and woman's) attempt to reach God. Like that's going to happen? He wouldn't be God enough for me if I could do that. That is where anthropomorphism comes in. It isn't us assigning human qualities to God. Astoundingly, an infinite God limited Himself to the finite world of human beings. Setting aside His glory, He entered our world on our own level, as a baby just as we do, in order to communicate with us in a we can understand. And what do we do? We spit in His face, hang Him on a cross and say No thanks, I'll do it myself! Well, not me. Not anymore. I tried that way. And my life sucked! I figured He couldn't do any worse with it than I had and turned it over to Him. So one divine power does govern this life at least.  And it's all for the best! Thank you Jesus!  | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/29/2006 9:08:32 AM | Here is an interesting way to look at it...
Why did God make us? Why did he create the universe and the world? Aren't we, in a sense, HIS science project? Couldn't you apply that same principle to the Muslim, Jewish, and other faiths?
Have you ever played a game called Age of Mythology? its a Real Time Stragety (RTS) where your civilization rises through worship of particular gods. just think, What if this world is one big Real Time Stragety game, and the Gods are the players...?
It would support my theory on the War of the Gods... ;) | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/29/2006 10:26:46 AM |
Religion is a Joke?
With your last dying breathe, you proclaim " Please forgive me God?" An underlying hope and faith held back by countless times in your life where you could not understand why a god with unlimited power could not ease the pain of not just yourself but billions of people who suffer. Trying to fathom why were here and explain it first with faith in a higher entity and then with science to further contemplate the anomalies that exist.
We look to scriptures of historical significance for answers to it all. We derive formulas and base calculations on proven theoretical advances. We always seem to be one step closer to an answer and then find ourselves falling two steps back. I remember hearing the story of when all the proclaimed genius' stated and derived the 'Big Bang' equations. They went on and on about the origin's of the universe and one kid raised his hand and said well if this is the case, 'Who lite the match". I find that humourous because the child was right and there is no answer which brought everyone back to the discussion of the existence of an almighty entity.
I am by no means a 'bible thumper', I am however; not so quick to dismiss existence of a 'God' either. I personally believe an answer is somewhere in the middle. A universe designed with scientific precision governed by an entity that is capable of 'Divine' powers such as concentrating energy to form 'Life' as we know it. A being not as we know it but probably consisting of matter and 'anti-matter' brought together by energy. Perhaps one day more people will not think 2-dimensional and be willing to accept that we are not the center of a unbelievably vast universe. Maybe the evidence is people such as Einstein and Newton (I use their names as popular references and realize there are substantial numbers of others, not just scientists with notable innovations and theories) who had they been as skeptical as most of us are, would not of been able to decipher and explain theories that are and have changed our world as we know it.
So I do not believe Religion is a joke, but rather the unwillingness to be open to a thought or idea is actually the joke. I always step back and look at the whole picture. Basic physics, you cannot find the 'Center of mass' of a system by just looking at one particle. It is the whole system and how it intereacts with all the other particles.
Ok I've done my ranting now, LOL. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/29/2006 10:39:30 AM | personally I don't believe tha Earth was created 6000 years ago. I feel that between Genenis
1:1 all the way to Abraham may have been MANY more years then previously assumed maybe Up to trillions of years for all we know. But From Abraham to christ is was approximately 2,000 years. In the first accounts before Abraham, SOME people think that alot of the geneology was not included just like in one of the Gospels when they mentioned Christs geneologies, many names were not included. So I think at the very firt parts of the Bibble mentioned names that were for us to know, but may have not included many generations.
Also note what it says in Genesis 1, God REPLENISHED the Earth, that means something or someone or both was here before that. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/29/2006 11:12:34 AM | Freespeech
If you read brianne greenes book "the fabric of the cosmos" you would see that they actually have theories of other universes and dimensions and what they call "branes" which collide to create big bangs and the birth of other universes along with a multitude of other theories.
I don't bring this up to nitpick,just as another fascinating observation.
As you have said however there still remains too be seen how the "branes" then were created so the questions just keep coming.
My personal belief on it all is that we struggle to apply logic to just what could be an illogical existence.
It is mankinds unwillingless and arrogance to perhaps think of the possibility that maybe applying our logic to things is not the answer because there may be in essence no such thing.
We are responsible for applying logic and systemizing and categorizing things in the universe including our need to believe there must be a beginning, a creator,but that may just not be so.
Unfortuntely since i am human there is no way for me to explain this idea adequately enough without applying my own logic since that is human nature,so it then becomes a paradox.
How do you describe what may be a illogical universe using logic?
mankind has spent thousands of years applying logic to things so that it seems like an unfathomable idea to argue with it.
But just because we were able to do so doesn't mean it's the universes reality.
It would explain why there are so many questions unanswered and ones of which are continually brought up time after time.
The point of all this is not to demonstrate that what i say is even necessary the way of the universes existence,but to point out that thinking beyond the boundaries of existence is far healthier then to claim one knows the "absolute truth" of existence.
Which unfortunately is what religion for the most part implies.
For me the nature of what we perceive or say is true open mindedness,is to question everything,including the tools we use to perceive...logic itself.
Anything else would be rather arrogant would it not?
In the larger context of this universe our galaxy supposedly contains roughly 200 billion stars according to astrophysicists and there are supposedly billions of galaxies.
Yet we tend to think our ideaologies and precious logic is the "truth" of the order of the universe.
Interesting considering our galaxy doesn't even amount to nothing more then a speck of cosmic shit in the larger picture.That in itself is a illogical prospect.
I don't present any of this as an absolute truth,just an interesting possibility.
Isn't that what we really should be doing instead of limiting our thinking to such a limited scope?
After all it really isn't going to mean all that much to any of us either way whatever is the supposed truth.
Just something to think about. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/29/2006 9:08:55 PM | twobits, Robert is all over the forum and replies/responds to just about everybodies posts! He's so not stalking you.
The point of all this is not to demonstrate that what i say is even necessarily the way of the universes existence, but to point out that thinking beyond the boundaries of existence is far healthier than to claim one knows the "absolute truth" of existence. Which unfortunately is is what religion for the most part implies. For me the nature of what we perceive or say is true openmindedness, is to question everything, including he tools we use to perceive...logic itself. Anything else would be arrogant, would it not?
Nicely put, perpetualmoribund. Unfortunately adherents of many religions have been taught that openmindedness is 'bad', dangerous, a sin,...even demonically-inspired ( "cuz if it aint in tha bibul it aint true," is a common, uhh, proclamation) and they (usually) just aren't the type to think 'outside of the boundaries.' Believing that they have the entire and the only truth is a very strong and comfortable security blanket-among other things, imo. I, for one, think it's a shame and very...sad--the closed-mindedness, that is. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/29/2006 11:02:33 PM | Religion isn't a joke. Why? Because they don't have a single punchline.
*bu dum bum kssss*
Anyway, while I don't believe in the existance of a God or any of the "divine" things most religions state as fact, I do believe that religion itself serves a very importiant purpose: Hope.
Think about it, without hope, our entire way of life would depressing. We'd never advance twards the future, we'd just say where we are or worse, degress. Some people, like myself, can find hope around him without the need for a religious belief, but the rest of the human race is not me. Some are not strong in self belief and must turn to something bigger then them. Sort of a "it's bigger so it'll make everything alright in the end". I personally don't like people being dependant on such sources of hope, but it beats not having it for those who need it.
So remember, without religion, we'd all probably be living in mud huts or maybe even extinct.
HvnlyTrtl3: Julius Ceaser has ALOT more historical evidence seeing as how he ruled the roman empire. There's Busts of him made at the time of his life. Thus far noone has produced an actual picture of Jesus. The one you see was done by a german painter in the 13th century I think. Not to sure of the date. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/29/2006 11:30:43 PM |
Julius Ceaser has ALOT more historical evidence seeing as how he ruled the roman empire. There's Busts of him made at the time of his life. Thus far noone has produced an actual picture of Jesus.
Dave: As I said above, do the research. What you say about the busts and pictures are true. What you say about the historical evidence is not. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/30/2006 7:00:58 AM |
As stated previously Religion in itself isn't a joke...those that follow it blindly and look only for 'research' that supports their own way of thinking in my opinion is quite funny...or rather sad I should say. I personally have trouble believeing anything that is writen Bible or otherwise simply for the fact that throughout history the 'church' has used fear as a tactic to keep people in line but also expected its followers to follow blindly. It is said that history is writen by the victors... | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/30/2006 8:27:55 AM | I believe the posts and different opinions, themselves, prove something. There are so many different methods to approach the question. To truly find an answer, you need to look at the problem in any way possible. You cannot dismiss faith or even atheism as being part of that answer. Like a previous poster stated, faith gives hope and hope is what drives us and moves us forward through life.
As far as the miracles and divine intervention, I believe their is some sort of truth to those claims. I think it may have to do with perception as opposed to absolute divinity. Now imagine when people first heard we were not the center of the universe and our earth was not flat. It brought about skepticism and ridicule. Imagine taking back some of our proven theories hundreds of years ago. Not possible you say, I wouldnt be so quick to say that. Perhaps John Titor is right. Time travel, in all direction is beyond belief to most of us now. Much the same as say splitting an atom was to people a couple hundred years ago.
I am a firm believer in Time Travel and alternate dimensions. I also believe that the 'String Theory ' has merit and will be proved sooner then expected. I think faith tries to explain all that is and tries to define who god is rather then what it may be. Perhaps it is not quite what we expect. Still, having the ability to move as energy and manipulate mass at will. Just imagine if you were able to know all the rules that govern our universe. You would be able to do things unfathomable to other's. After all we as a race are not yet at a point of understanding and there are many things that I am sure would totally amaze us. We have only one thing we can do and that is to have faith and know we will move forward and always be amazed at exactly what we are capable of.
So religion is by no means a joke but a intricate part of our existence. Ok I hope that made sense. LOL | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/30/2006 9:44:34 AM | Well i am not sure if we actually needed religion to give us hope freespeech,as i nor anyone else here was around before its birth,so we can only speculate about that.
You do have a much healthier attitude than most about it though.
For me it's all about the possibilities,not about stating which is right or wrong.
Right,wrong,true,false,good,bad...these are all words pertaining to religion and it's sad that i myself struggle to explain using other words,thats how much religion's hold has been on society permeating it in every aspect.
My mother believed in god and was christian,she however never forced me to believe in her religious beliefs and I respected her the same.
I had come to realize that if she could allow me to think for myself and have my own beliefs,then there would be no harm in letting her believe in her god,if that's what helped her through her day(Well there always is the danger of people being scammed because of there blind faith,but she wasn't one of these people.)
A very good book to read on this debate is "The closing of the western mind",by Charles Freeman.I am not saying he is correct either,since we can be here all day debating what is actually fact and what is not.I'm not sure if there is even such thing as fact anymore.
History and science are always re-written,what we thought were facts one day are quickly "disproven" another day,which is why i see the endless debate over sources fruitless unless you have witnessed things first hand and even then our personal senses can deceive us,so how would we actually know what is truth?
I don't really think there is much more i can say on this topic without repeating myself guys.
So i'll leave it open to everyone else's opinion.
Try not to be too serious on your quest for knowledge guys,for eventually in time you will find out what you seek. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/30/2006 10:12:56 AM | | Then you'll have to give me a definition of what you see as historical evidence because to me, having an entire world know your name, create fabulus busts of you, statues, ect... is fairly good evidence. Also I'm sure they had his name on them. But I'd be willing to go do research if I knew which type of historical evidence you want me to research. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/30/2006 11:36:15 AM | Sorry guys...I did have a posting here,but i realized it was totally off subject,so i retracted it.
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 4/30/2006 12:07:10 PM | Well I am not going to tell you to research anything since it has no bearing on me what you do or do not research,If i have to search for knowledge i am quite capable of doing it myself.
I am simply stating that you can not really be 100% sure of anything regardless of what physical evidence you believe is there or so called "Proof."
In all honesty none of us can really be sure what our senses pick up is indeed "Reality"
A good example is that it has been theorized in Brianne Greene's book "The fabric of the cosmos" that there may be other universes and we can't see or detect them in anyway because all of our instruments of detection rely on electromagnetic radiation and these universes don't allow light and other radiation to escape there boundaries,thus closing them off from our senses and our ability to detect them.
Does that mean there not there?,not necessarily.
Does that mean they are there?,again not necessarily.
The point i was trying to make is we simply can't say or prove anything with any degree of certainty as religion or anyone would suggest.
All we really have is our senses to guide us and it just may be that our senses have also been misleading for it is our senses that contribute to our ability to make reasoning and deductions,but what if those senses are inaccurate.
That is why i commented about "historical evidence."
I am thinking about the bigger picture,not just within the realms of the microcosm of man.
I do believe it is not much of an endorsement for human nature to endorse itself.
We have been self centered for far too long,i think we need a new way of thinking.
So if you want to tirelessly bring up points to "prove" to yourself an others to no avail,that is your perogative.Just don't try to make it mine.
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 5/1/2006 5:45:30 AM | HvnlyTrtl3
(Sigh) Here we go again. What historical proof do you have that an earthly Jesus actually existed. I have done the research and have found absolutely nothing. So, please enlighten us to what you have found and let's examine the evidence together.
Fact: Nothing in Jesus' time exists to verify his existence.
Fact: No veneration nor pilgrimmage ever happened to Nazareth, Jerusalem, Bethlehem until the fourth century (time of Constantine).
Fact: There is no first hand eyewitness to anything Jesus said or did. All Gospel accounts were written at least forty years after the alleged crucifixion.
Fact: Matthew and Luke copied 60% of their work from Mark. Hardly eyewitness testimony.
Fact: Justus of Tiberius and Philo of Alexandria both wrote extensively on religious sects in Jerusalem and Galilee in the early to mid first century and neither mentions Jesus once.
Fact: A sarcophygus of Joseph is found to be a forgery (Joseph, Mary and Jesus were very common names in Judea in the first century).
Fact: The earliest manuscripts were written in Greek and not Hebrew nor Aramaic and the earliest one found does not mention a resurrection story.
Fact: The Jesus story bears striking similarities to other deities that were crucified such as Horus, Mithras, Krishna etc. The virgin birth is not even mentioned by Paul who also seems oblivious to Jesus' earthly works and miracles. He should have been aware since he was writing well before the gospels.
I would like you or any other apologetic to address these facts. So far nobody has addressed them with any rational rebuttal. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 5/1/2006 9:16:59 PM | Just wanted to put this out there,
I was brought up strict Roman Catholic, my Mom , was actually in a convent to be a Nunn, but ending up being an army nurse,,i was an alter boy, Nuns for teachers etc.., dont agree with how im supposed to be for God to love me,,, Nunns beating me with a belt at 6 years old, school mates getting molested by catholic, priest, & school Scout master, Although these sickos never had the mits on me,, just a regular trip to principal to get the belt!!lol..
went to senior elementary gr 7&8, where i learned to drink and smoke drugs, were swarming teachers before it became fashionable, regulars gang fights with public school kids 50 ft away! almost like a war zone . catholics and protestant.. little Ireland!!! Yes im a bi-product of the Roman Catholic teaching!,,and to be perfectly honest , we were the most popular kids in school,every younger kid looked up to us! think how demented that is!!!!im really not bragging i was so turned off that i rebelled against anything catholic for years..Now i know, I am my own temple.. I dont .hate Roman Catholics but i also dont agree with everything they teach. IT is what it is!!.it becomes evident as years pass that its more about money and power than it is about spirituality,,
In fact i dont hate any religion nor do i follow a particular one, the only thing im adament about is i will not listen to any religoius sect that tells you either you beleive our teaching or you die in the eternal flame!.,,,many have those connotations but im convinced they are not from the original teachings but rather some man in power who was insecure about his hold on people ,that he actually played god himself.., and well power, politics and money, things havent really changed all thses years..Its a currupt cycle and probably what makes me apathetic about the whole thing, i do beleive in a high being but thats my choice and its what make the most sense to me, not so much what i want, but what makes the most sense.. other wise my heaven would be in Las Vegas,,lol!!
I read a few years ago that aliens actually created the world,and came back in the 60 or 70s to explain to a man how the world was created! they abducted him to their spaceship etc..! there really is a book in this, and theory on this..
Now with the Judas book discovery and Da Vinci code..the list goes on...according to the new discovery, we are here only as a prerequisite to our spirtual being which happens when we die and our souls leave our body..that the world was not made by god rather a Divine but Evil being!........
Im secure of where i am, and somehow sure my journey hasnt yet ended..I try to live good,
and most of all i know Im only human, and can and will make misstakes, and my god understands that and if he doesnt then i guess ill need an ice cube where im going!! | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 5/2/2006 1:18:17 PM | | Every false tree is rooted in truth....remember that. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 5/2/2006 1:54:29 PM | Yeah, but how tall is the tree? That is the question.
After all, George Washington is said to have thrown a silver dollar across the delaware, chop down a cherry tree, and never told a lie.
The truth, ofcourse, is that he was a great man. He didn't actually chop down a cherry tree, throw a dollar across the delaware, or never told a lie. But he did make people want to believe he did. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 5/2/2006 1:56:06 PM | | It is a tree with alot of branches, and alot of leaves ( people ). | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 5/2/2006 3:45:09 PM |
I honestly think you would have to be very small minded to still beleive the world is governed by one divine power.
sorry, i have not read all the responses in this thread
i will say tho...
its all about faith...
plus.. have ya ever been on a mountain... did nature or evolution create the beauty that you saw??
i belive it was a higher power... u can sit there and explain how it was created thru science, but you will never explain why...
just my serious post of the week..... maybe | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 5/2/2006 5:10:09 PM | | Religion is indeed a joke! I have no doubt about it. nowadays, religions do nothig but to spread the hatred amon other people. did you watch D.r phil today? don't fool yourselves, religion and tradition have come from the past, belong to the past,and would better go back to the past. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 5/2/2006 5:18:09 PM | hahaha.. so yeah....
lets all put our faith in Dr Phil | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 5/2/2006 5:21:15 PM | | hahahaha, funny, I just happened to see his show for a few times in my entire life since I myself rule people around me. I even own the air they breath.got it? however the question is, religion has got no place no more but GARBAGE. | |
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| Religion is a joke!
Posted: 5/2/2006 6:16:02 PM |
So remember, without religion, we'd all probably be living in mud huts or maybe even extinct.
Great line, and certainly true from my perspective. Sir Francis Bacon is largely responsible for two very important developments in the history of man. He was the chief editor of King James's famous translation of "The Bible" into English. Sir Francis's diligent work paid off and he went on to Author the "Scientific Method" which is the basis of modern science, and is a major reason that we do not live in mud huts and in fact live in the most advanced society in recorded history. It is my opinion, and perhaps mine alone, that Bacon derived his Scientific Method from principles he learned by translating and deciphering the "riddles" of Christ (called parables). Religion isn't a Joke, its a riddle. It's something like a Zen koan or a whisper from a dead prophet. | |
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