| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/13/2008 1:13:00 PM | 25 years ago, before everyone had DVDS, mobiles and computers, and when most UK families had only 1 car for the whole family, there was a poster on the wall of my school room. It said that the average Somali family lived on 1/400th the income of the average Swiss family. Somalis don't seem to be spending a lot more, or using a lot more of the planet's resources. But we do.
Also, it takes 7 kg of grain to make 1 kg of meat. Most people in the West eat meat.
So in reality, we could afford to support 400 x 7 times as many people as are already here in the developed countries. That's 840 billion just from the US (400 x 7 x 300 million, 300 million being the population of the US).
Somehow, I don't think the problem is as much of over-population, as extreme waste of valuable resources, mostly by us.
If you REALLY want to help the planet, live cheap, re-use anything you can, save your money, then give all your savings to charity when you die. You'll probably donate millions, and save at least that,much of the planet's resources. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/13/2008 5:05:26 PM | I am not worried about overpopulation and here is why:
We have ways of getting and making water.
We can build up to and/or down to way more levels then ever before
We can grow plants indoors and out
We can/have/are useing/making space stations and ships
We have war/ abortion/ birth control/ and other alternatives to having children
Our engineers rock at solving problems like this | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/13/2008 6:45:32 PM | | I think the world is overpopulated, but the problems with the environment are being made worse by unfettered globalised capitalism. I think climate change will force humanity to change before resources run out, and market price signals (such as the rising price of food and oil) are already giving humanity strong signals we need to change our lifestyle. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:00:08 PM | | JRandallR, no, the trends are not from urban to rural world-wide, but just the opposite and the biggest growth area in cities is their slums. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/13/2008 11:03:47 PM |
We are running out of grain reserves...
You can thank Monsanto (et al) for that. They now control much of the seed market...seeds that when planted, will not produce seeds for next years harvest...one is forced to buy more seeds. And to that the fact that many of these seeds will not grow without expensive herbicides and pesticides. It's no wonder thousands of small farmers are going belly up...in India especially...and many of them are committing suicide.
This planet needs a big war, another black plague, something to kill tons of people...fast.
Well....that might work if the people being killed are the tiny percentile that consume the vast majority of the planets resources.
Millions of people die from war and disease or *something* each and every year...where were they on the consumption scale? The vast majority of them on the very bottom...yet the problems keep increasing. Funny that.
Bush has been a successful minion for the corporate globalists....the IMF, the WTO, the FAO, who are determined to enrich their vast wealth on the graves of others.
WTO + FAO = CODEX
Some young genius , yet to be born , will come along and invent de-salinization technology that will give the world all the clean water possibly needed.
Desalinization is effective...as it's been demonstrated in several parts of the world...and very expensive. It's also very effective at killing off marine life due to the high saline content of the effluent that's sent back to the oceans.
Human potential is limitless .
Only to the degree that the earth allows us. It will do away with us in a heart beat if necessary. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/14/2008 2:40:53 AM | | I think we just need to start eating all the fat one's... | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/14/2008 6:56:45 AM | | I have said to people that one of the main reasons why I don't want kids is because the world is too overpopulated . They just give you a completely blank look like they didn't even hear what you said and continue on harassing you as to why you should have kids. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/14/2008 11:31:45 PM | | The "Overpopulation" myth is a scam promoted by the elite to keep us under control. Strong growing populations threaten their status and they know it. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/14/2008 11:53:20 PM | *Sigh*
How do so many people make such unreasonable leaps in logic ? Worse, why are those leaps all in the wrong direction ?
First off, if you want to blame "capitalism" (and I'm pretty sure that most people who are blaming overpopulation on capitalism don't know what the word actually means judging by their usage of it) then you're going to run into quite a solid brick wall. It's the least "capitalistic" countries that are driving up the global population. More money (via capitalism as it happens) equals higher standards of living. That's clearly what has happened since Adam Smith revolutionized the market so argue away if you like but the evidence is right in front of you that capitalism isn't the problem. In fact, while maybe not directly, it's probably part of the solution at least for now.
Secondly, to those who think that "globalization" is such a bad thing....do you even know what you're referring to exactly ? I mean, in the last ten years or so, it's become this buzzword among the most idealistic of conspiracy theorists and apparently it's synonymous with evil. This is , to put it bluntly, just silly. What these people I refer to call "globalization" is the exact same thing that has been going on for milleniae. The British Empire was built on "globalization". The Chinese have focused on expansion of trade and the monopolization of it throughout their history. If it wasn't economically motivated, it was territorially so. Nothing new there. Nothing inherently evil about it either. Alexander the Great and his contemporaries such as Darius II of Persia were "globalists" in the same way that Wal-Mart is today. The only difference is that the former two used war to achieve their ends (the accumulation of wealth) whereas today, Wal-Mart simply opens another store. I don't know about any of you guys but I'll take a Wal-Mart over rampaging warlords any day .
Thirdly, what does any of this actually have to do with over-population anyway ? Is this just a convenient excuse to inject your political propaganda and rhetoric into a topic that is otherwise unrelated ? Pretty tenuous links if you ask me. I mean, here's what some of you just said : "Bush is helping the Third World birth rate reach new heights.
That's just stupid. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/15/2008 9:11:33 AM | All we need to do is bring back infanticide, senicide, and start encouraging suicide  . | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/15/2008 2:09:50 PM |
All we need to do is bring back infanticide, senicide, and start encouraging suicide
^
I would say that two of those three are already policy ...
- abortion
- suicide ..... by producing a morbid culture of incredible negativity ( the overpop . myth , global warming myth , materialism , the culture war, "liberalism" , and of course , the poicy of depicting humanity as an infection on the world )
The third is in development ...
- Kevorkian
The "Overpopulation" myth is a scam promoted by the elite to keep us under control. Strong growing populations threaten their status and they know it.
Yup. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/15/2008 7:03:06 PM | Re, "at least China is trying to curb it." Yes in China with the one child policy and most likely only that child is a son, there is a huge problem occurring. As the population ages, there will soon be not enough young people to take care of the elderly, this is also causing a huge problem when it comes to financially be able to take care of the elderly. Another big problem is that there are no brides for most of the male population, interesting read concerning what the single males are doing to meet their "needs."
Japan is experiencing this problem too. Many women do not want to marry and have children because of the olden patriarchal attitude towards women. And if they do decide to marry, they are only having one child, not enough to take care of the elderly in the future. That's very interesting to read about.
I was reading on Monday about the lack and will of birth control in countries with a Muslim population, I think males in Egypt were being interviewed. Because of their religion, they will not under any circumstances practice birth control, even if it means starvation for many in their country.
What about the countries that are mainly Catholic, e.g. Mexico and South American countries. There is extreme poverty there with huge populations, I don't see the Catholic Church too concerned with poverty on a global scale, as long as these good Catholic women keep pumping out more babies for their church.
Quebec, here in Canada, has tried for years to plead and pay for the French population to have more children, at a very great cost. It's not working; most French women are not having babies, and when they do it will be one.
There is overpopulation in certain parts of the world, for various reasons, which is creating extreme poverty in those countries. For the countries that are keeping population growth down and in some cases, zero population growth; this practice will create a huge problem in the future; the young are going to be heavily overtaxed to make up for the shortfalls in less people to tax, and also force many of these very few young people to take care of the elderly. We need population growth here in Canada; that is why immigration is up. Immigrants tend to have large families, which creates a great tax base for the government and also provides bodies to take care of the elderly.
bliss | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/15/2008 7:07:28 PM | re, "You can thank Monsanto (et al) for that. They now control much of the seed market...seeds that when planted, will not produce seeds for next years harvest...one is forced to buy more seeds. And to that the fact that many of these seeds will not grow without expensive herbicides and pesticides. It's no wonder thousands of small farmers are going belly up...in India especially...and many of them are committing suicide."
CBC had a program on sometime in the spring, a new problem has arisen; many of these seeds bought from Monsanto have now turned out to be sterile, which is causing a lot of farmers to just sell out and move on. Guess who is buying all these farms?
bliss | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/15/2008 7:19:42 PM |
I think we just need to start eating all the fat one's...
As a kid I used to like pork rinds. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/16/2008 12:41:52 AM | | How ironic that they've conditioned women here to fight for the right "not" to have children. In other places where media control is not so prevalent they have to make laws. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/16/2008 3:00:13 AM |
How ironic that they've conditioned women here to fight for the right "not" to have children. In other places where media control is not so prevalent they have to make laws.
That's true , but , they get to be working stiffs and pay lots of taxes !
That's what you call "liberation"
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/16/2008 11:56:21 AM | Just look at it this way: more and more affluent and religiously moderate people in Western society are choosing to have 2, 1, or 0 kids. People who belong to radical religious groups, both in the West and in the Developing World, are having lots of kids, often 10-20. So not having kids is a great thing! It means that religious will vastly outnumber the rest of us in our countries, so the majority of voters will be religious zealots, and they will vote for legislation that promotes their views, in almost every country in the world. Israel has this problem already, because your average secular Israeli has very few kids, while the fundamentalist Christians, Muslims and Jews have them in droves, and so there is a very good likelihood that pretty soon, the government will be run entirely by zealots.
Just wait: pretty soon the USA will have an Imam for President.
Now won't that be fun? | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/16/2008 1:22:08 PM |
That's true , but , they get to be working stiffs and pay lots of taxes !
That's what you call "liberation"
Not to mention their credit debt. I worked in advertising for years and "husbands" were considered the "gate keepers" to the finances. This means it was a problem for companies trying to sell stuff to women. Getting rid of the "gatekeepers" was a priority. Can anyone say "high divorce rate? or Affirmative action?" Sure, on the surface both good things, but underneath something else was going on I'm sure.
People should know I don't care if women work, or don't choose to have children. That's their business. I'm just putting out the question of "are women really making the choices?" Or are they just being influenced to think they are to benefit a bigger agenda?
Good points Scorpio. I want to also mention that it was the religious right that was very keen on "eugenics". Which might explain why there are so many abortion clinics in black neighborhoods. Not to mention that planned parenthood was founded on ridding us of blacks. Their words not mine. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/16/2008 1:51:58 PM |
Just look at it this way: more and more affluent and religiously moderate people in Western society are choosing to have 2, 1, or 0 kids. People who belong to radical religious groups, both in the West and in the Developing World, are having lots of kids, often 10-20. So not having kids is a great thing! It means that religious will vastly outnumber the rest of us in our countries, so the majority of voters will be religious zealots, and they will vote for legislation that promotes their views, in almost every country in the world. Israel has this problem already, because your average secular Israeli has very few kids, while the fundamentalist Christians, Muslims and Jews have them in droves, and so there is a very good likelihood that pretty soon, the government will be run entirely by zealots.
Just wait: pretty soon the USA will have an Imam for President.
Now won't that be fun?
IMO ... Ultimately , It was a kind of religious zealotry that have promoted modern social revolutions that have seen to radicalising all of society towards extreme liberalism and the inherint infertility.
However , that's very true about the trend you have aknowledged , it's odd that what people consider "liberals" are the group that have strongly promoted/supported the conditions for their own ultimate demographic and political demise . Liberalism is a kind of suicidal philosophy... It is decadence and it is simply not sustainable.
Religious zealotry is no more fun than extreme liberalism .
Social conservatism , a strong and relatively and reasonably homogenous culture , a strong sense of common purpose and an unquestioning support for freedom and civil liberties is probably the happiest median for any nation to survive .
People should know I don't care if women work, or don't choose to have children. That's their business. I'm just putting out the question of "are women really making the choices?" Or are they just being influenced to think they are to benefit a bigger agenda?
I think women and all of society are happiest when they live in a fertile culture .
Of course it is definately a women's choice ...but ...
I do think that women were very much influenced . The mainstream media is an extremely powerful political tool and it certainly had a huge influence on modern women's identity ...as it did with modern men .
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/16/2008 2:20:09 PM | RE msg 93 by bigblue-eyes:
Good points Scorpio. I want to also mention that it was the religious right that was very keen on "eugenics". Thanks. I agree that it was the right that was pro-Eugenics, but not only the religious. Just that back in the 20s, it wasn't very acceptable to say you were an atheist. So atheists in power went to church, so they could keep their power. But in their hearts they were true to their beliefs. Just like many politicians today.
Which might explain why there are so many abortion clinics in black neighborhoods. Not to mention that planned parenthood was founded on ridding us of blacks. Their words not mine. I thought STD clinics handed out free condoms. Also, I thought any woman could get an abortion for free under the public health service? Why are these clinics not in black neighbourhoods, where they can do so much good?
RE msg 94 by betterguy:
IMO ... Ultimately , It was religious zealots who have promoted modern social revolutions that have seen to radicalising all of society towards extreme liberalism and the inherint infertility.
That's very true about the trend you have aknowledged , it's odd that what people consider "liberals" have strongly promoted/supported the conditions for their own ultimate demographic and political demise . Liberalism is a kind of suicidal philosophy.
Religious zealotry is no more fun than extreme liberalism . Both promoted revolution. If you look at the French Revolution and the Russian Revolution, it seems to me that the leaders were all from the middle-classes, not the working classes, and what they advocated was an extremism against religion as much as some modern groups advocate extremism in favour of religion.
Social conservatism , a strong and relatively and reasonably homogenous culture , a strong sense of common purpose and an unquestioning support for freedom and civil liberties is probably the happiest median for any nation to survive . I totally agree. But as you pointed out, that's social conservatism, basically socialism. America and the UK have become Capitalist societies. The way I see it: Capitalism is the extreme right, Communism is the far left, and Socialism is in the moderate centre. We need a shift back to the centre. Extremes are no good for the body, no good for the mind, and no good for society. It's moderation which makes things run smoothly. Balance. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/16/2008 2:57:29 PM | IMO ....Capitalists become super capitalists and then promote big government socialist tyranny to hold on to power . Money is power and absolute power corrupts absolutely . Once you are macro wealthy your next step is to control government and the population.
Western nations are headed towards socialism , not free market capitalism , social freedom and free enterprise...
The last many decades have seen a strong trend towards big centralised government in the hands of an ever growing bureaucracy . The tax rate is greater than 50% , so the nation is greater than 50% socialist .With a huge unpayable debt procured from printed fiat money provided by private bankers. The people are debt slaves.
Mega corporations make up pseudo governmental cartels that "lobby" governments , they rely on ever burgeoning regulation to squeeze out competition and free enterprise. Mega corps love big government regulations ....they write them themselves.
The American constitution was designed to prevent this from happening .
The money power has been gutting the constitution and now they are very much in control of society both socially , politically and economically .
The people are divided and almost completely powerless , as seen with the Iraq war.
More government means more of the same control .
It's the human condition..
People want to win (capitalism ) and control (socialism) and it's everyone elses business to see that they don't.
Extremes are no good for the body, no good for the mind, and no good for society. It's moderation which makes things run smoothly. Balance.
I agree .
I think we live in a extremely big governmental super capitalist come socialist controlled society . | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/19/2008 5:07:11 PM | | Well, if the worlds poles shift in 2012 and the planet flips most likely 2/3 of the worlds population will be wiped out. Don't live on the coast line. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/20/2008 7:57:04 AM |
Every person we introduce into the world adds a great quantity of pollutants into the environment.
Reducing human population and improving the quality of life for those living on the planet -- rather than rationing and reducing the share year after year -- generation after generation for each person is far too obvious a solution to environmental concerns. It goes against basic human nature which was accurately tuned over the millions of years of barest survival of tiny clusters of inhabitants.
You can't change these traits -- re-enforced by nearly every religious dogma of the last 10,000 years with a good 21st century PR campaign. The idea of unending population growth somehow still seems plausible to humans. | |
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| Overpopulation
Posted: 7/22/2008 5:43:12 PM | | Does anyone realize that our body fat can actually be a new bio fuel? | |
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