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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/16/2006 10:14:34 PM | Hydrogen is an energy carrier.. not a source. It costs more in energy to make hydrogen than you get from burning the hydrogen.
If you used the entire worlds proven supply of platinum you would have enough to make about 700 million fuel cells that last about 1200 hours, or roughly 12,000 miles.
Then there is no more platinum to make fuel cells for next year.
Forget about hydrogen saving the world. | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/21/2006 6:57:30 AM | All that I will say is DO THE RESEARCH into Hydrogen Plasme Cold Fusion Reactor and or Hydrogen Plasma Reactor, that is all I'm going to tell you...
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On your behest and because I had not heard of which you wrote,...I did do the research,...and the more I research,..the more my suspicions were piqued,....
I actually went into the research completely open minded......
but then again I suspect what you have been saying by your venemous,...
NOW, DO THE RESEARCH!!! mantra,...is check it out and then agree with me,...
well I checked it out and I disagree with you,....
as for renewable fuels like ethonol,....they are proving successfull,..and cost effecient by every passing day,...and with every new Flex fuel car that makes it off the assembly line of the big auto manufacturers,....for them to consider making them,...you better bet that they too,...DID THE RESEARCH!!!
I'm not saying that your idea is completely wrong,...because many are in fact spending millions on research and development,...what I am saying,...is that in MY OPINION,....
they are still on the drawing board,....
Here's what I don't understand,...why on earth are you so vehemently against anything but YOUR SELF RENEWABLE fuel,....and are against such proven also RENEWABLE ones like Ethonol???? Renewable,...and affordable should be the goal no???
why should we ever again limit ourselves to just one option,....the more the better,..choices,..keeps the price reasonalbe,....we've tried it the other way with cartels and monopolies,..and look where that has gotten us,....I say,..bring 'em on,....all the new ideas,... | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/22/2006 1:18:46 AM | Okay Hydrogen power as it relates to cold fusion is different from burning hydrogen for feul and is different again from hydrogen for proton membrane exchange, there was just a crazy amount of confusion so I thought I would post some links to sort out the wing nuts from the crack pots from the know it alls.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_Exchange_Membrane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen#Hydrogen_as_an_energy_source
If you wanna talk about that kind of thing please sort yoruself out (if you have not alread), as to which kind you are talking about please, and don't shoot someone down jsut because they are talking about something different then you are.
As to making hydrogen as a battery, it can be done without platinum as it turns out, check it out...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen#Production
More interesting wiki's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy
Anyhow as to home made Gasoline alternatives, I would argue the reason why we cannot make our own gasoline is not because of any significant technical reason, it is because governments in power are addicted financially to the oil industry, and they have no vested interest in changing the economies of mass production towards producing vehicles that can run on said fuels in a cost effective way in any significant way. Sure they pay lip service to this idea to placate the vocal minority, but generally they push the SUV on people to burn as much octane as they can so that we the consumer can continue to enrich them via oil profits.
I would argue that the very fact that we are talking about these kinds of things is the mass realization that the politics of energy are changing, and new sources are becoming increasing necessary for western independence from middle eastern oil supply. | |
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 27 | |
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/23/2006 6:55:13 AM | Went on a road trip this weekend (no...I haven't a clue why I do such things...seems I am 'supposed' to do it), but anyways, saw a lot of construction going on. A lot of these places were using solar cells for caution lights. Nice and bright too! Saw some billboards being illuminated by the same. Yet, a frikking garden light using solar technology seems so dim. I'm wonder if these commercial panels are good for home use. Where could I get some? Any idea on pricing? Can I get them secondhand? Is it worth it?
I hope to have a home someday and want to be able to be as self sufficient as possible, yet maintain the comforts of modern day living. | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/24/2006 3:19:37 AM | Clearly there is potential,..in this but it is far from being available to every consumer and there are still some problems which are explained herein,....
I have asked repeatedly for you to give us something to back up your position,....
a web site,...bool but all I have ever gotten is the ol' do the research,...so I did,...and here it is,...
SCOOP: SA Car runs on water
http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/News/0,,1369-1372_1605834,00.html
15/10/2004 12:31
A South African inventor claims to have developed a device that allows an ordinary car or truck engine to run on water - with no air pollution. And it's relatively cheap!
BMW's expensive 7 Series hydrogen car carries hydrogen gas on board and requires special hydrogen filling stations **( AS FAR AS i KNOW THERE AREN'T ANY STATIONS NEAR ME THAT SELL THIS)**
What's more it cuts servicing costs because the car's oil is not as easily contaminated as it is on a petrol-engined car.
Developed by Nelspruit research and development company Ku-Shan Technologies, the device uses electricity from the car's battery to turn water into a gas known as hydroxy, or Brown's Gas.
This gas is then re-aligned using Ku-Shan's process - patents have been applied for - to make it suitable for use in an ordinary petrol engine.
"It's not that the technology is new - it's how it's done," Ku-Shan CEO Danie de Beer told me.
Outside the box
"There are other people working on this at the moment. Sasol (the South African oil-from-coal giant) has been trying for four years to get it right. But it all depends on the way you are thinking.
"We think outside the box, and we have come up with the solution in 2 1/2 months."
De Beer said the main problems to date had been that it took more energy to produce the gas than could be got out of it.
"In the beginning we had the same problem," he said.
"Then we got to where we are now, where we get a lot more out than we put in.
"The amount of electricity consumed is no more than required to run one of the car's headlamps, but we can run a big Pontiac V8 fitted into a Volkswagen Kombi.
More power
"With this conversion the engine runs cooler and you have about a 5% performance increase.
"The oil stays cleaner for longer and there are no more harmful emissions, the only thing coming out of the exhaust is steam and oxygen."
He said he came up with the idea from a movie about a man who invented a hydrogen engine that could run on water.
"I did my homework on the unit used in the space shuttle - it's not high volume, but it's efficient", he said.
Apart from its low cost - De Beer expects his 22x12x12 cm device to cost between R5 000 and R7 000 - the device is much safer than current hydrogen-car technology, which requires large amounts of explosive hydrogen gas to be carried inside the vehicle, as well as a network of hydrogen filling stations.
No explosion risk
"We are generating the gas as we are using it, so there's only about a litre of gas in the system at any time, not enough to do any damage if it explodes," he said.
He said there was only one drawback at the moment, but this could be easily addressed.
When hydroxy is held under compression, without being ignited, it reverts back into water - and this small amount of water can cause rust inside the engine if it stands for a long period.
"The car needs to be in daily use because of the water aspect," he said.
However, special coatings, similar to those used on dragster cars adapted to run on nitrous oxide, could be applied to the engine to prevent rust build-up.
"It's not a serious problem," he said.
De Beer said he was currently looking for investors to take the device to market.
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you might also check this out,... http://www.therussiansarehere.com/videos/USA/WaterFuel.wmv
http://www.pytela.com/int_ene_BrownsGas.html
http://freeenergynews.com/
http://hytechapps.com/contact.htm
The one main question I can't seem to get answered is,....what about the winter?????,.....
we do get them here and it does freeze water in cars,....can you add anything to prevent that or is this only a possibility for warm climates?????????
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/24/2006 10:32:07 AM | so I'll take that to mean you can't provide a specific,..oh and I did not e-mail you,...I believe it was the other way around,..and even in private all you seemed to do is continue your tangent,...which is why I ignored it,..I don't debate in private things that belong in the forum,.....if it can't be said here,..then it doesn't need to be said at all,....and it's the modorators that decide not you,...or I,....
I debate you because you seem very narrow minded in your thinking that you and only you have the answer,..the only answer,...I disagree I say there are many answers to come down the pike and yours may also show promiss but is far from a finished product,....
so when you come down on people who might have another view,...some may feel browbeaten and walk away,..but I feel neither you or I have as yet discovered the panasea that will supply the needs of the future but many individuals and groups are working on it and spending billions in the process,....
The only thing I hope is we as consumers never again paint ourselves into a corner with anyone holding a monopoly over us,...that's it,...and I personally don't favor one particular renewable energy resource,...over any other,....it's all good in the long run for us when it comes to having to pay for it,....
We learned that the hard way after,...Bell was ousted from it's monopoly throne,..some years back,...and look how well that worked out for us,...more choices,...lover prices,...
Oh and posting in a thread,...BTW doesn't make you part of either the problem or the solution,.....it just makes you vocal,.....
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/27/2006 8:59:47 PM | | My point all along was simply that the decision to change over to a new kind of fuel for automobile engines is not something dependant on technology as much as it is on politics; moreover you can guarantee that with the present set of oil magnates in power we won’t be switching to any kind of alternative fuel sources in any sufficiently large capacity any time soon. | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/28/2006 9:12:04 PM | Hey, all:
Two quick things about hydrogen: first, with current technology, hydrogen is not pollution-free, and is not sustainable. It is only displaced pollution, because the power to produce the hydrogen still comes from fossil fuel. There are currently only 2 basic ways to make hydrogen: by electrolysis of water and by stripping hydrogen off of hydrocarbons. Both are energy-intensive, and unless you have sustainable electricity for electrolysis (wind or PV), it uses either fossil fuel or nuclear. As such it either adds greenhouse gases or it presents waste storage issues.
Second, any move to hydrogen is even more than 20 years, more like 30-40 years in the future. Research into simpler, lower cost means of production, and the requirement for a safe delivery infrastructure (can you imagine hydrogen delivery tankers on the highways?) to be built are the reasons. With the lock on fossil fuels that the oil/gas/coal industry has, and the energy and automotive industries support, they will kick and scream and cajole and bully and blackmail legislatures until they get out and sell the last barrel of oil or shovel of coal.
Only technologies that are truly sustainable (by the way, sustainable means meeting our needs without compromising the ability of future generations to meet theirs) will truly help. Distributed generation of electricity and closed systems for producing fuels for transportation, such as biomass, are the best solutions. We need leaders who understand this and will make things happen.
A very good book is Cradle to Cradle, which deals with really closing the production loop, and is very worthwhile.
David | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/28/2006 10:19:24 PM | Just a few thoughts related to the politics of energy.
Even if we could totally replace fossil fuels tomorrow for transportation, heating, and energy production (electricity), we would not quit using oil and petroleum products... we are too dependant upon them for plastics and chemicals and there will be a market for fossil fuels for these sectors for the forseeable future.
Secondly, what makes folks think that the fossil fuels companies are not heavily invested in research for new technologies... who do you think funds academia (hint: it's not the government - they are investing heavily in other areas these days)? When the new technologies become prevalent, it will be at least partially because the existing megacorporations will have developed their ability to provide these technologies to the consumers and they will have acquired or own the pertinent patents.
Finally, either politicians need to gain greater technical expertise (or hire better technical advisors) or those with technical ability and a flair for public relations need to enter into politics... unfortunately, I don't see either one as being likely (nor do I see the general public becoming more educated on energy options... but that could happen eventually as a result of economic pressures). | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/29/2006 10:30:33 PM | Hey, Window (or is it Windows, as in Windows Hopping, and not Window Shopping? Heh heh):
Yes you are right on all points. It is true, oil and gas are only partly used for energy. I don't know what the percentage is but a minority part of each barrel or cubic foot is feedstock for industries such as plastics, fertilizers, and a huge and constantly growing chemicals industry. However, if we can eliminate the majority of the demand of each barrel or cubic foot we can move rapidly from such disastrous use of resources. Substituting sustainable resources for those fossil fuels will go along way. And, at the same time there is research on further use of sustainable sources for plastics, fertilizers, etc. Plus the cradle to cradle movement has legs for anyone wishing to further reduce waste.
And yes, the gas/oil and coal industries are hedging their bets every day. I have watched the photovoltaic supply industry for several years and the gas/oil megacorporations as they buy up PV manufacturers around the world. I find it troubling since I don't trust their motives. I see you have several features that make you well-placed to comment on this: you are in the Houston area (a near-miss from Rita, huh?), and you are in the petro-industry. So you must of know the lengths to which the industry will go to protect its primary interests, specifically making as much money on gas and oil as possibly. And a repeat in some form at some time of Enron is not out of the question. I used to hear a comment "Utility companies will never be interested in solar until they can put a meter on the sun". But as an alternative, they can control the price and supply of the PV panels required. It is not unimaginable that they would mainpulate these things until the last barrel or cubic foot is extracted.
And I have to address the huge subsidies from BushCo. to the industry. Much of the investments you mentioned are passthroughs of federal money to benefit the industry. I am so very opposed to this policy for the very results you mention--the megacorporations and their BushCo. handouts--more welfare for the rich.
Finally I agree with your assessment of politicians and policy leaders. In fact, because of the above I am even more cynical that things will greatly improve. I do watch for and encourage emerging leadership but the same structure above also acts to thwart, subvert and derail this kind of leadership. Oh, well.
All of this tends to work against home-brewing (of all kinds), but I have done a little bioDiesel, and I have friends who are getting into the industry to supply the bioDiesel portion to the B20 the EPA has required.
Good message you presented--thanks for the discussion.
David
P.S. By the way, my messages are done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun! | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/31/2006 1:10:21 AM | hmmm...
With Big Boost From Sugar Cane, Brazil Is Satisfying Its Fuel Needs
By LARRY ROHTER
New York Times, April 10, 2006
PIRACICABA, Brazil — ...Brazil's ethanol yields nearly eight times as much energy as corn-based options, according to scientific data. Yet heavy import duties on the Brazilian product have limited its entry into the United States and Europe.
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The use of ethanol in Brazil was greatly accelerated in the last three years with the introduction of "flex fuel" engines, designed to run on ethanol, gasoline or any mixture of the two. (The gasoline sold in Brazil contains about 25 percent alcohol, a practice that has accelerated Brazil's shift from imported oil.)
But Brazilian officials and business executives say the ethanol industry would develop even faster if the United States did not levy a tax of 54 cents a gallon on all imports of Brazilian cane-based ethanol.
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Today, less than three years after the technology was introduced, more than 70 percent of the automobiles sold in Brazil, expected to reach 1.1 million this year, have flex fuel engines, which have entered the market generally without price increases.
"The rate at which this technology has been adopted is remarkable, the fastest I have ever seen in the motor sector, faster even than the airbag, automatic transmission or electric windows," said Barry Engle, president of Ford do Brasil. "From the consumer standpoint, it's wonderful, because you get flexibility and you don't have to pay for it."
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Ethanol burns far cleaner that fossil fuels.
Ethanol can be made through the fermentation of many natural substances, but sugar cane offers advantages over others, like corn. For each unit of energy expended to turn cane into ethanol, 8.3 times as much energy is created, compared with a maximum of 1.3 times for corn, according to scientists at the Center for Sugarcane Technology here and other Brazilian research institutes.
"There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to improve that ratio to 10 to 1," said Suani Teixeira Coelho, director of the National Center for Biomass at the University of São Paulo. "It's no miracle. Our energy balance is so favorable not just because we have high yields, but also because we don't use any fossil fuels to process the cane, which is not the case with corn."
Brazilian producers estimate that they have an edge over gasoline as long as oil prices do not drop below $30 a barrel. But they have already embarked on technical improvements that promise to lift yields and cut costs even more.
In the past, the residue left when cane stalks are compressed to squeeze out juice was discarded. Today, Brazilian sugar mills use that residue to generate the electricity to process cane into ethanol, and use other byproducts to fertilize the fields where cane is planted.
Some mills are now producing so much electricity that they sell their excess to the national grid. In addition, Brazilian scientists, with money from São Paulo State, have mapped the sugar cane genome. That opens the prospect of planting genetically modified sugar, if the government allows, that could be made into ethanol even more efficiently.
"There is so much biological potential yet to be developed, including varieties of cane that are resistant to pesticides and pests and even drought," said Tadeu Andrade, director of the Center for Sugarcane Technology. "We've already had several qualitative leaps without that, and we are convinced there is no ceiling on productivity, at least theoretically."
And...
Cars running with water as fuel!
Sushmita Swaminathan, Special Correspondent
India Daily, August 26, 2004
It looks like a regular BMW 7 Series, but it runs on hydrogen -- an energy source that can be produced using sunlight and water.
BMW has developed its hydrogen-powered vehicle using its conventional 12-cylinder internal combustion engine from the 750iL. However, instead of gas, it runs on hydrogen.
The Indian Institute of Science and Indian Institute of Technology joint program on Hydrogen as an alternative fuel has surprised the world. They successfully have run cars using water as fuel. Solar energy is used to break water down into Hydrogen and Oxygen. Then Hydrogen is burnt as fuel using water to cool down the engine. The resultant superheated stem is further used to energize a second hybrid electric engine. The electricity generated through alternator of main and second electric engine further helps in breaking the water down into oxygen and hydrogen.
A standard car can be driven with water and an electric battery with circuit amplifiers. The technology is a total breakthrough and the world is totally surprised with it. Commercialization will make gasoline the thing of the past. The resultant exhaust is pure steam and is harmless for the environment.
And...
Brazil: sugar cane, bioplastics, alcoholic fuel and Caipirinha drinks.
Tuesday, April 04, 2006
Brazil’s alcohol program started in the 1970s during the oil crisis. Currently, Brazil is replacing 40% of the gasoline needed to run all the cars in the country with alcohol from cane sugar. Cars produced in Brazil since 2003 can run on pure alcohol, or on a mixture of gasoline and alcohol (all gasoline sold in Brazil has a minimum of 20% alcohol). Alcohol is cheaper than gasoline in Brazil, and gas stations supply either the mixture or pure alcohol. Flexible fuel cars were 53% of all cars sold in Brazil in 2005, and the rate is estimated to reach 90% in 2007.
Brazil is also producing a biopolymer obtained by a fermentation process, where microorganisms are fed sugar obtained from the sugar cane. The dry biomass that is left after milling the cane is called bagasse, is utilized to fuel steam boilers and to produce all the electricity needed in the processs.
The biopolymer produced from sugar cane is PHB (or poly hydroxybutyrate). PHB is achieving a growing interest in Europe and Japan. The EU is supporting a pilot project on the production of PHB and its blends, and Japanese companies are showing interest in Brazil’s PHB offering.
Bioplastics are “biodegradable plastics whose components are derived entirely or almost entirely from renewable raw materials”. Bioplastics are a biodegradable formulation of biopolymers, plasticizers and other additives. “Biodegradability” refers to the degradation of the material by naturally occuring microorganisms (like those found in soil or marine environments). | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/31/2006 2:29:08 AM | Any internal combustion engine can be adjusted to burn ethanol/natural gas/propane/methane/alcohol and the older engines can be modified to burn a hydrogen & oxygen mixture (because of the combustion levels it requires the older heavier blocks for this to be done,but it is not yet viable..or cvompletely safe either) However.many things have to be considered.....how well will a fuel cell car operate if its minus 15 outside......IT WON'T
How about the electric car....it fail's badly in the performance/distance/and low temps too.
Also.with electric cars..there is no environmental advantage if you get your recharge from a fossil fuel electric generation plant. Batteries under constant drain, in cold weather, do not survive. The mild drain when starting a car in cold weather is nothing. As an example...buy the best batteries you can find. Put them in a flashlight, and then put the flashlight in your freezer for 5 hours, turned off. When you take it out, the light will not go on. The batteries are useless..until they are heated. Then they regain "some" of their power, but will not last long.
Other considerations are that virtually all forms of transportation, world wide, are powered by an internal combustion engine. So the trick, without bringing the world to a standstill, is to standardize the fuel of choice, without fossil fuel assistance or even consideration, and use the power systems that are available to burn this fuel......our present cars/trucks/trains/aircraft/ships/et cetera. This grandious talk about a whole new system is ludicrous. No nation could afford a complete overhaul of their transportation systems, and few families or corporations could afford to either re-power their present equipment or just throw away the old and bring in something new. SO.Internal combustion it is...and probably will be when our great grandchildren are pondering the same questions. | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 6/1/2006 1:40:42 AM |
No nation could afford a complete overhaul of their transportation systems, and few families or corporations could afford to either re-power their present equipment or just throw away the old and bring in something new. SO.Internal combustion it is...and probably will be when our great grandchildren are pondering the same questions.
Recall the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 6/14/2006 2:44:02 AM | there is much debate and reference material regarding this theory,..both for and against,..
WHEN I GOOGLED H2-HYBOOST,...the results garnered only 3 websites for H2-Hyboost....
all 3 were for forum discussion sites much like this one,....
I have asked you Typhoon Jim repeatedly for information,..web site,..anything to verify,...and have only been met with sarcasm,..insults, but no refference sources at all,...
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Denny Klein is going to join the ranks of people like Steven Horvath in Australia, who sold a lot of stock to losers, Henry Garrett in Texas – in 1935 – and Stanley Meyer, who was convicted of fraud in 1996. Andrija Puharich – who also “discovered” Uri Geller! – Archie Blue, Bob Boyce, Carl Cella, Charles H. Garrett, Daniel Dingel, Hector Pierre Vaes, Nakamatsu Yoshiro, Sam Leslie Leach, Stanley Meyer and many others,
The water fuel cell is a perpetual motion device that was supposed to function by breaking water into hydrogen and oxygen gases using less energy than that present in the bond itself. The water fuel cell was claimed to produce several times more energy than it consumed (for instance, by connecting it to an engine that would burn the hydrogen back into water), and a car prototype powered by a water fuel cell was assembled.
Since this concept violates the first law of thermodynamics and this apparatus has never been demonstrated to work or reproduced, it was met with much skepticism and was later found to be a hoax. The purpose of the hoax was likely to attract gullible investors, selling them licensing rights for a "revolutionary" technology. The inventor, Mr. Stanley Meyer (died March 21, 1998), was later successfully sued by some of these disgruntled investors, whom he had sold "dealerships", and convicted for "gross and egregious fraud".
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for example,...
The laws of thermodynamics, in principle, describe the specifics for the transport of heat and work in thermodynamic processes. Since their conception, however, these laws have become some of the most important in all of physics and other branches of science connected to thermodynamics. They are often associated with concepts far beyond what is directly stated in the wording.
The increase in the energy of a system is equal to the amount of energy added by heating the system, minus the amount lost as a result of the work done by the system on its surroundings.
More simply, the First Law states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, rather, the amount of energy lost in a process cannot be greater than the amount of energy gained
Essentially, the First Law of Thermodynamics declares that energy is conserved for a closed system, with heat and work being the forms of energy transfer. Heat is a process which transfers energy as a result of a temperature difference between a system and its surroundings. Mechanical work is the product of the force acting on a system and the distance moved in the direction of the force. However, work input can produce a temperature rise that is a mechanical equivalent of heat. The first law is a generalization of this concept which states for a thermodynamic cycle that the net heat input is equal to the net work output. For a system with a fixed number of particles (closed system), the first law is usually stated as:
dU=dQ+dW
where
dU is an infintesimal increase in the internal energy of the system,
dQ is an infintesimal amount of heat added to the system,
dW is an infintesimal amount of work done on the system, and
d denotes an inexact differential.
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On the for side,..here is more in detail information on Denny Klein
Denny Klein fires up his hot new invention. His machine emits a flame that feels only slightly warm to the touch. But watch what happens when he touches anything else. "I can burn a hole right through that brick."
The flame instantly turns hotter than the surface of the sun. Heat so intense, it takes only seconds to literally burn a hole through charcoal. Three seconds turns a brass ball to glowing liquid metal.
Tungsten lights up like a sparkler. Steel, lead and other metals slice on contact. Yet the tip of the welder remains cool to the touch. "no other gas will do this." Denny Klein uses an alternative fuel source once thought impossible. He says people still can't believe him when he reveals his liquid fuel. "water. Water and electricity; it's an electrolysis process."
Klein just patented his process of converting h20 to hho, producing a gas that combines the atomic power of hydrogen with the chemical stability of water. "it turns right back to water. In fact, you can see the h20 running off the sheet metal." Klein originally designed his water-burning engine for cutting metal. He thought his invention could replace acetylene in welding factories. Then one day as he drove to his laboratory in Clearwater, he thought of another way to burn his hho gas.
"on a 100 mile trip, we use about four ounces of water." Klein says his prototype 1994 Ford Escort can travel exclusively on water, though he currently has it rigged to run as a water and gasoline hybrid.
"simply speaking, our plan is to end our dependence on fossil fuels." Pete Domeneci is helping Klein take his hydrogen technology patents from a two room office to top consumer markets around the world. "you know what? Microsoft started from a small garage, why not Hydrogen Technologies?" The duo is already in negotiations with one US auto maker and the US government. Their plans have grown from basic welding with water to powering the entire world with the safest and cleanest fuel on earth: water. Members of Congress recently invited Denny Klein to Washington to demonstrate his technology. Now his company is currently developing a Hummer for the US military that can run on both water and gasoline. So far, his water-powered engines have passed all performance safety inspections.
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YOU MIGHT ALSO WANT TO CONSIDER THIS,...currently
The H2O 1500 Aquygen™ Gas Generator produces Aquygen™ Gas on demand using only distilled water and standard electric current. The generator is available for lease, rental, and purchase.
Lease Program
$1 purchase option at the end of the lease term
Lease Term Monthly Lease Payment
24 months $365
36 months $260
48 months $205
60 months $175
Rental Program
Equipment is returned at the end of the rental term
Rental Term Monthly Rental Payment
24 months $285
36 months $220
48 months $185
60 months $160
I don't spend $160.00 per month on gasoline,....I certainly wouldn't pay $365.00 per,... The purchase price is $6995.00
Aquygen™ is a novel gas made from ordinary water through our patented electrolysis process. It replaces oxyacetylene for most welding and cutting applications with superior efficiency, quality, cost-effectiveness, and safety without the need to replace existing equipment. An Aquygen™ flame in open air burns at only 259° F, but applied to a substrate it can produce temperatures of over 10,000° F depending on the target media. Aquygen's unique properties also make it an ideal additive for fossil and other fuels, increasing BTUs while decreasing emissions. It even works for a hybrid hydrogen-powered car.
Aquygen™ is made up of oxygen and hydrogen combined in a structure only beginning to be described in scientific literature. We have described it chemically as HHO gas, and the scientific details are remarkable.
Aquygen™ is a novel gas made from ordinary water through our patented electrolysis process. It replaces oxyacetylene for most welding and cutting applications with superior efficiency, quality, cost-effectiveness, and safety without the need to replace existing equipment. An Aquygen™ flame in open air burns at only 259° F, but applied to a substrate it can produce temperatures of over 10,000° F depending on the target media. Aquygen's unique properties also make it an ideal additive for fossil and other fuels, increasing BTUs while decreasing emissions. It even works for a hybrid hydrogen-powered car.
Aquygen™ is made up of oxygen and hydrogen combined in a structure only beginning to be described in scientific literature. We have described it chemically as HHO gas, and the scientific details are remarkable.
Aquygen™ is a novel gas made from ordinary water through our patented electrolysis process. It replaces oxyacetylene for most welding and cutting applications with superior efficiency, quality, cost-effectiveness, and safety without the need to replace existing equipment. An Aquygen™ flame in open air burns at only 259° F, but applied to a substrate it can produce temperatures of over 10,000° F depending on the target media. Aquygen's unique properties also make it an ideal additive for fossil and other fuels, increasing BTUs while decreasing emissions. It even works for a hybrid hydrogen-powered car.
Aquygen™ is made up of oxygen and hydrogen combined in a structure only beginning to be described in scientific literature. We have described it chemically as HHO gas, and the scientific details are remarkable.
http://hytechapps.com/get_aquygen
THIS BTW IS DENNIS KLEIN'S COMPANY,....AND WEB SITE
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 6/14/2006 3:17:16 AM | We are using several alternative fuels to produce food: for heat in our greenhouse, we
use whole kernel corn...works like a charm; instead of pesticides, we use 'plastic' biodegradable mulch (actually made from corn starch); by fall, we will be growing veggies and food fish in a symbiotic recirculating system - the electricity will come from a
diesel generator powered by WVO - totally carbon-cycle neutral.
Presently, we are researching the direct conversion of waste plastic into diesel fuel, the
conversion of cardboard into alcohol fuel, the conversion of bakery waste into alcohol
fuel and the use of home-made gas from gasification of trees.
What to do with the alcohol fuel????
Burn it in a microturbine and cogenerate heat and electricity...and by extension, more food.
This done in upstate NY, not a warm climate
Mad | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 6/14/2006 9:17:14 PM | Hydrogen isn't the ONLY alternative fuel.......
I believe the original discussion was about the home brewing of ethanol fuel...why then is the discussion centered around Hydrogen?????
Instead of arguing and bashing each other, what can the two of you contribute to what
COULD be done TODAY??? I can envision both of you, pushing your cars home from work,
side by side, and STILL pissing and moaning at each other over Hydrogen.....
I would prefer to drive past you in my WVO-fueled diesel 4X4 and laugh.....
Both of you are as brilliant as an eithteen-pound waterhead driving into a trailer park
and screaming, "Wal*Mart sux!!!!!"
Mad | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 6/15/2006 7:20:05 AM | I would love to brew my own gas, but I don't have any material to convert.
However, the company "Changing the World Technologies", does have the material. They convert animal guts and other refuse to gas at a plant in the American Midwest. A few years ago they had a small test facility, and now they are starting a larger plant.
Here is an article on them:
http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003/Anything-Into-Oil1may03.htm
Popular Science recently ran an article about them too, but I don't know if there's an online version of it. | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 6/15/2006 9:03:11 AM | http://www.free-energy.ws/vortex.html
The MEG builders group
This group was inspired by a device called the MEG, invented by Dr. Thomas Bearden and his associates at Magnetic Energy Ltd.; and subsequent replication attempts by researcher Jean Louis Naudin. The MEG is purported by its inventors to extract energy from the "active vacuum" or "ZPE" (Zero Point Energy) and convert it into electricity. Although this group is primarily intended for discussion of Magnetic Energy Ltd.'s device; it is also open to discussion of all electromagnetic motionless generators and their theory, operation and construction.the web site below,...is monitored by Stan Mayer,...this forum is also one used by a number of others who are also working on an MEG
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEG_builders/messages/1308?viscount=-100&l=1
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The Motionless Electromagnetic Generator (MEG)
Has produced up to 100 times more power than was input, by extracting free energy from the vacuum. The MEG has been independently constructed, and its overunity performance independently replicated, by other researchers. US Patent awarded March 26, 2002. Invented by Tom Bearden and four colleagues. Stephen L. Patrick,...James C. Hayes,...Kenneth D. Moore,...James L Kenny,...the web site below gets you to this Patten, described in detail and illustrations,..
http://www.cheniere.org/references/MEG_Patent.pdf - patent
http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/index.html -Tom Beardon's web site
I didn't find Stan Mayer anywhere on this although Beardon,...author of 9 books on the subject and 6 DVD's,...some of which he goes into Tessler's work and talks about finishing what he started,....
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You rely on what you read in books,??????????
I know only what works when I try it...
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well I know one thing that is found in books,....verification of sources,...
the following letters I found on Tom's site, there are many more documents you can click on,....notice the date,..I'm guessing they were still working on it,....
so the letter of a year and a half ago was him begging for more research $$$$$
he said it would allow him to finish in a year,..the next one is one year and 2 months later in which he says he needs 6 more months to finish,...which would make it this coming September,...
Subject: RE: MEG Funding
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10 21 -0600
Dear Cailen,
It will take about $11 million ($12 million would be a bit easier budget) and a hard year of work to finish the engineering development of the MEG. Due to the peculiar nature of the Aharonov-Bohm effect that generates the excess energy inputs to the MEG from its immediately adjacent space, we are dealing with multiple energy inputs and signals to every coil and every wire in that internal MEG core area, plus iterative re-radiations between all coils, etc. Hence we have to build a math model (higher group symmetry EM is required, since ordinary electrical engineering does not model such inputs at all), fit it to experiment sufficiently for engineering purposes, and then apply nonlinear control theory for controlling of multisignal multiphase inputs. All very doable, of course, but definitely not an ordinary EE electrical power engineering problem. It's one requiring certain specialists on a special team, which we must assemble etc. Some special instrumentation and measurement techniques is also required.
Once that research and development is completed, then at that point we are in direct position to scale-up and design MEG units at a variety of power levels, etc. and go into production engineering for producing real MEG power systems and marketing them widely.
In aerospace such nonlinear problems are well known and the procedures for solving them are well-known also. It's just not conventional electrical power engineering, and there are no Aharonov-Bohm specialists in the electrical engineering departments! They are over in physics, and so the work we must do is in the electrical physics area, not electrical power engineering.
All matters concerning the MEG are handled by Dr. Lee Kenny, CEO of Magnetic Energy Ltd. to which the rights to the MEG are assigned. We also have filed and secured quite a few foreign patent coverages on the MEG as well.
Best wishes,
Tom Bearden
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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17 07 -0600
Tony,
We are just beginning again to rebuild another MEG demonstrator, for testing and then funding to complete the program.
We have a very hard year to a year and a half of work on the MEG, before it is out of engineering development and ready for production engineering. At that time, with successful conclusion of ED we will hopefully be in condition to place the system on the market.
Best wishes,
Tom Bearden
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and then there are some that challange his conclusions,....
the bottom letter is what he is dicussing whith his friend in the top letter
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Hi Tony,
Don’t think I’ll reply anything to this self-assured fellow.
He doesn’t even understand that there are no EM force fields in space. He also has no idea that sharp gradients etc. can allow violation of the 2nd law of thermo, and apparently has not read the history of point contact devices.. Nor does he even know what an asymmetric circuit is, compared to the symmetric ones he knows and uses.
Got a chuckle out of that one. If he doesn’t bother me, I won’t bother him.
Cheers,Tom
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With reference to the paper by Beardon in the section in your web site "Energy Papers".
Beardon shows his ignorance by quoting the point contact transistor's negative resistance region as a source of power. Yes, the point contact transistor does have a negative resistance region. But in order to enter the negative resistance region the transistor has to be biased from an energy source such as a battery. The input power far exceeds the useful negative resistance power so the resulting efficiency is extremely low. Ask anyone specialized in transistor electronics for confirmation of my assertion. With a factual error of this magnitude I cannot take anything else that Beardon says seriously.
Yours truly,
********* PhD, BSc(Eng), FIEE, P.Eng,C.Eng
Dean of Applied Science Emeritus, University of *******, Canada
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http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/index.html will get you to all the correspondence,..
some interesting reading,...
and regarding your question,...(mad scientist1 )
I believe the original discussion was about the home brewing of ethanol fuel...why then is the discussion centered around Hydrogen?????
Only yesterday I saw a car comercial,...where Chevie is trying to sell you and I a duel fuel,..Flex fuel and Gasoline car,...so clearly sinse these cars are already on the road and available all they have to do is add flex fuel to gas stations,...
which is a lot more imediate than any of the other alternates be it hydrogen Bingo,..or even cars that run on wasted vegetable oil,....which I'm sure would need to be treated and filterd before you can put it in a car,...which adds another expense and ready supply to all would have to be dealt with as well,...
Who knows perhaps the gas stations of the future,..will give us a choice of all the different fuel substitutions,....because to be usable by a large market supply is the key,....not necessarily the method,... | |
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 45 | |
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 6/15/2006 9:30:28 AM | | Dual fuel cars are ok. My 91 Olds is equipped with a big 6 cylinder that is capable of burning alternate fuel. Never use it though, because it is just as expensive as regular fuel here anyways. Maybe the gov't could have used that 400 million they are using to bail out GM to make alternate fuels more available and cheaper to the consumer. I also saw an add for a truck that changed from 8 cylinder to 4. Use the 8 when you need the power, use the 4 for economy. Great idea! Not how about a 6 to a 3? | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 6/15/2006 10:06:35 AM | | Over 5,000,000 cars in the US currently are set up to run on E85. Most of them are sold in the Midwest. You can convert your car fairly cheaply I believe to make it into an E85 vehicle. | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 6/15/2006 10:31:11 AM | | You may also want to look at a Canadian company called Iogen that has been making headlines by being able to make ethanol using cellulose. I believe George Bush mentioned this in his energy speech earlier this year, making ethanol from switch grass. | |
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| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 6/15/2006 2:06:28 PM | ^^^^^^^^
There is also a US company doing the same thing here....uses waste cardboard to create alcohol fuel.....
"In diessel engines,the H2 renders about 25% more power...."
PURE Hrdrogen gas???????
A 50% savings in diesel fuel can be attained by injecting producer gas (from whole tree technology) right into the air intake.....
Mad | |
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