| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 6/4/2006 12:09:45 AM | Interesting post ITV.
Lets see how you do for Bible history. Did you know Noah was an alcohloic? Did you know that in order for all the races to be carried on through Noah, he would have had more than one wife to have four sons of all the different races? Makes you wonder how he made it as a prophet. Moses killed a man. Not in battle either. He also lacked patience at times. Definetly not prophet material. And then David. Lusts on another mans wife, sends her husband to the front of a war to be killed which he was so he could have her, and he did. Doesn't sound like a kingly thing does it? And Solomon. Had many many wives. It is not said that God approved of them. And then how old were they? I'd guess pretty young as people in his day died young. Life spans weren't to long. Sounds like a pervert eh? And Lot. Aparently he drank. After leaving the Sodom and Gomorah thing, his daughters got him drunk and had sex with him to keep their lineage going cause mom got turned into a piller of salt! A righteous man like Lot doing his own girls! Incest!! And Peter. Good faithful God loving Peter. Turned around and denied his Christ in a heart beat when he thought he might get what happened to Christ. Sounds like he was pretty solid in Jesus huh! And Judas. He turned on his master for a handful of coins. And doubting Thomas. His faith went out the door the moment Jesus was buried. Wouldn't believe nothing about Jesus coming back from the dead least he could see, hear and touch him. Almost sounds like an athiest.
These are the pasts of the men you don't apparently judge ITV. Either it doesn't matter or like God, you forgive them of their henious pasts? Or accept that maybe doing the judgement thing is up to God?
Yet you judge a man and I bet your judgements don't come from having read the book of Mormon or any history about the guy huh. Like most I would guess your judgements come from anti-religious sites.
I am curious, tell me of the secretive things they do? I'm always willing to learn of this church. Interested to hear about the occult things to. | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 6/4/2006 12:41:11 AM |
Joseph Smith was also very heavily involved in the occult before he recieved his revelations from these angels of light.
Where did you get this info from? I've always wondered why "born - agains" attack the founders of these religions. Paul the self proclaimed apostle had quite the colourful past yet you later tell this man to go to some Pauline churches.
Anyway, I would suggest that you do check out some of the other churches in your area. The pentacostal churches are known to teach truth as it is in God's word. Also the baptists and many others.
Truth here is relative. There are several beliefs that those two churches teach that I consider to be false and offensive. These beliefs have little or no historical, cultural or Biblical support.
Nick can try this survey...Personally I'm not going to tell him what church he should attend - just churches he should avoid... like the Baptists and holy rollers...
http://www.selectsmart.com/RELIGION/ <---survey | |
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ITV
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Joined: 5/28/2006
Msg: 53 | |
| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 6/4/2006 6:44:38 PM | Hi Alaska. First let me say I'd love to try some fishing out in around Anchorage, Just for the Halibut. I've seen some fishing shows from out there and man that looks great.
Regarding all those things you said about some of those people. I'm wondering where you got that information and if you believe it? As far as the occult goes, I probably only know a little about its detail but perhaps you could help me out with that. I know that the occult is secretive. I understand that occultists ultimately give themselves over to satan and the dark side. This doesn't happen over night but is a gradual process in coming to this place. They believe they can manipulate their own and other peoples bodies. I have a friend that was involved in it to the point of sacrifices and he lost some of his fingers in rituals. Anyway, for as little as I know about it I know enough that I wouldn't be interested in it.
I guess if one is merely debating and intersted in history then you and I may agree on a lot of things. From my personal perspective on creation and salvation, it matters to me if what I believe is truth in regards to what salvation is. Although Nick is not happy with his present church they too believe in one God and one Jesus who is the Son of God and was born to a virgin. I assume sure you know all this stuff also though. My point really wasn't about who did what but rather which is the way to salvation. I'm guessing you and I won't agree on that part and thats ok.
I was wondering if mentioning just 2 christian groups would create a stir. There really are many different church groups with the same foundational beliefs. Some even calling themselves non-denominational. I'm not sure where you stand on all this Alaska. You sure seem to have read a lot. Would you be interested in sharing what you believe in?
One more thing...Have you been fishing lately? Maybe I should ask if you do fish. Have a great day and thanks for inviting me to share.  | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 54 | |
| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 6/4/2006 7:36:44 PM | Well ITV if you had been reading alaska's posts then you obvioulsy put no credit in them because one of yours totally contradicts what he stated about the mormon religion. Where he stands? I can take a gander...he is not mormon but he respects them, I would say he is christian but of what, if any, denomination at all, I could nto guess. But that is not the point. Coming from an ex-member of the church (that being me, of which I stand up for the church not bash it) what eh states about the mormon religion is true and what you have stated is false. So open your mind a little. You might learn a little more then about the fish from alaska.
Naming two religions....so they are holy rollers and bible thumpers? Who cares? If that floats his boat then that is his business, just as if he finds his peace and happiness in the mormon religion (of which they strive for Reverence in the chapel) then that is his business too. | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 6/4/2006 7:41:44 PM | | If you seek a more-fitting spirituality, don't let anyone else decide it for you. Ignore everything everyone says on these forums. Read the Book of Mormon, and any other accepted Mormon canon, and decide for yourself if you want to accept it and how you would practice it. If it works, splendid, more power to ya. If it doesn't, move on. | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 6/4/2006 9:37:05 PM | Enjoyed your post ITV. It wasn't the other Christian groups you mentioned that produced a post from me. Many people, including myself have a tendency to judge others without hearing the whole story. As I get older I do it less. What I have come to realize if we had lived during the time of Christ and the original apostles, we would have a bevy of information that we might not want to consider of the apostles. They were all men. Humans that made wrong choices and mistakes like the rest of us. Can you imagin some of the "terrible" stories people had of Peter, a tax collector? And like Guy said of Paul, here was a guy that use to persecute Christians, no doubtedly having a hand in the death of who knows how many, directly or indirectly?
We use the Bible as a guide to judge the wicked from the righteous, a prophet from a wolf. But we forget that some of the very people we think so highly of in the Bible, had some really bad pasts who if living in our day would be branded a satanist or heritic. If any one of the famous evangelists in our day were to totally deni Jesus as Peter did, how many do you think would call him a man of God afterwards, even if he cried repentance. Would he have the same standing as before?
Well that is what a lot of people do with the man called J. Smith. There are comments he made that don't sit well with me. But because I was not there and only have written things to read about it, pro and con, I won't judge it. In my own opinion, I think he did and achived things beyond the normal limits that any man or woman have as yet to of repeated as he did them.
I know that some of the occult things believed of him come from him having a small ability to find hidden treasure but a few times. It is said he used a stone. As of yet I have not read anything in the Bible where looking at a stone to find treasure is a sin or. People in his time used "witch rods" to find water under the ground so they could dig a well. Thats not in the Bible as a sin either. I know some extends from him being a Mason. It was a political move by a governor that needed votes. He brought J. Smith in and made him a master Mason. J. Smith got out of it later when he understood what was happening. It had been a wrong choice. On there temples are signs and symbols. The old ones especially. But you can learn what they ment if you do research. They have not hidden meanings. And the things that go on in their temples, it is comparable to the Temple of Solomon. You could not set forth inside the Temple walls unless a rabbi had gave you clearence writing you were a faithful and devoted Jew. Anything less and you got to see the outter walls like the rest, Jew or non-Jew. And I am sure they had all sorts of signs and symbols in and on the temple we would in our day brand as satanic.
For me the way to salvation is the two greatest commandments spoken of by Jesus and then the ten commandments. If anyone lives by these twelve commandments, in my opinion, they will do well in God's eyes. | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 6/13/2006 12:38:17 AM | "#1. If the LDS denies every doctrine of the historic Christian church, which most modern day PROFESSING Christian religions are based upon they would actually be the largest practising Satanic cult in the world with books and literature about Satan and would never be mentioning the name of Christ let alone calling their church after him "
Alaska Alaska Alaska....c'mon. Read what you wrote. BAsically you would have us believe that if Mormonism wasnt truth and didnt believe in the true Jesus they wouldnt have his name in thiers? I suppose, therefore, Christian Scientists are also acurate...I suppose that surely if the Jehovah's witnesses didn't truly preach jehovah's truth they wouldnt have His name in thiers? I suppose Yahwah ben Yahwah also teaches the truth of yahwah?
If Mormonism SUPPORTED every doctrine of the historic Christian church, they WOULDNT teach that Man would become gods and goddess of thier own lil universes. God in so many verses proclaims himself to be the one and only true God, "...aside from me there is no other"...he doesnt say, "im the only God for this world and you will be Gods of your own".
Any attempt at trying to pick out a verse here and there from the Bible to support such a crazy ideology as mormonism is proof of a lack of biblical knowledge. One needs not to know Mormonism or its history in great detail to recognise it's absurdity in light of Christian scripture. The assertion of deified humans alone proves its error. And as far as LDS calling THEMSELVES the church of Jesus Christ...a duck can call itself an eagle all it wants...if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...its a duck!!!!! Satan would NOT hesitate TO USE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN. | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 6/13/2006 3:29:26 PM | Once again Freaky you have shown anyone can say anything without showing evidence. You should be addressing the thread..."Are we God?" Lots of good comments there.
First, if all Christian religions had their structure only to be judged by of whether they conformed to the early church structure in the NT, the LDS religion is the only one that would have a close comparison with the Catholic church, the RLDS and the Church of Christ bringing up close seconds.
Titles of positions in the early church are as follows; prophets, apostles, seventies, bishops, elders, teachers, deacons, desciples, minister, etc. Those are the main titles used by those in the early church. Very few of the very many Christian denominations will even use the lesser terms of seventies, bishops, elders, teachers, deacons, desciples, minister, etc.
I would like to hear your proof listed whereby they deni every doctrine of the NT church. | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 6/13/2006 9:29:57 PM | Thats great if we are discussing governmental structure within a church organization, however, i was talking about the false doctrine of the LDS.
GREAT ATTEMPT AT AVOIDING THE ISSUE THOUGH! | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 6/13/2006 9:44:53 PM | I agree that you were talking about the false doctrine of the LDS. I was not attempting to advoid any issue. For the LDS to have so much false doctrine, they would HAVE to be teaching the exact opposite of what the NT teaches of Christ so I asked of you to list all these contradictions you see.
According to your beliefs, you and I could name dozens of main line so-called-Christian sects that expound upon a certain part of the NT regarding Christ and more than less ignore the rest of his teachings. So which Christian sects to you are Christian sects? | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 6/14/2006 12:18:30 AM | From what I know Mormons have a really great religion. I like the fact they keep their marriage ceremonies as something really sacred and private. They are also very pro family and children oriented.
I have alot of respect for that in any Religion.
You know Robert Redford met a great Mormon gal and he converted to her faith. Now that says something. Bob is a great guy. | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 6/14/2006 1:00:51 AM | I have been a Mormon for 20 years. I joined when I was 21 years old. I served a mission in Korea for 2 years when I was 22. I've been reading this conversation and see some correct ideas about the LDS Church but also some misconceptions.
First Mormon is a nickname it is really called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As the name suggest we center our beliefs, worship, doctrine and lives on Christ. We do have some different beliefs about the doctrines related to Him but we still believe He is our Savior. Joseph Smith was a prophet like Moses. We don’t worship him.
Mormons do not practice polygamy but we also don’t believe it is against the laws of God. The Old Testament tells of Prophets with more than one wife. Does right and wrong change for God?
Blacks and the LDS Church. There was a time when they were not allowed to hold the priesthood but one of the modern day prophets corrected that. The LDS church doesn’t claim to be perfect. If anything Joseph Smith speaks freely of his weaknesses in modern day scriptures. The same is true today. In the 1970 the prophet Spencer W. Kimball prayed to know why all men were not able to hold the priesthood. The answer came back that early practices were incorrect. Since then there are no limits.
Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith translated this book when he was about 16 years old. It is a record of a people that lived Central America. It is not a history of the American Indians. The Book of Mormon is used by Mormons along with the Bible.
Mormons don’t believe heaven is only for Mormons. As a matter of fact we think it is for all people not just Christians. The concept of “Hell” is different from other Christians. Hell is reserved for those that knowingly commit serious sins against God. We believe men will be judged by what knowledge they have. Therefore if I’m raised in a good family and learn right from wrong I’m expected to follow Christ better than a poor boy in India that works 12 hours a day in a factory and doesn’t know who Christ is.
Becoming a Mormon. We teach people what we believe and ask them to pray about it. We try not to push too hard and ask that people investigating ask God if what we are saying is right. When I was a missionary I told people to not believe because of my words but to trust in God. He promises to answers prayers.
My advice is to listen to what they are saying and ponder on the message. Does it make sense? Is the message one of hope? Will it make you a better person? After you consider it ask God in prayer. He loves all of us equally and will show you if it is true or not.
Good Luck! | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 6/14/2006 1:04:06 AM | I would recommend 4 Pastors and Ministers whome I heavily respect in their teachings and ministry in preaching and expositing the Word of God through the years: John MacArthur, J.Vernon McGuee, Charles Stanley and Chuck Swindall.
Why am I mentioning these guys? They can help anyone of any faith really understand and gain insight into the spirit and essence of the Christian Faith, and they have great expository Ministries and I think people who are unsure about something pertaining to faith can trust on these guys to minister SOUND doctrine into people understanding of the Faith and through the Power of the Holy Spirit, it would be aplied to their hearts and minds. Fundamental to true knowledge of the Faith is sound doctrine. | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 8/3/2007 2:15:10 AM | | the website www.mormon.org is a truly awesome website and is the official one for the church so it has a lot of valuable info n stuff... hummm aside from that.. cant help ya... i can tell you all the wonderful things about mormonism (im a mormon) but it is best for you to learn independantly and construct that knowledge for yourself in order to find what you believe in.. if you have like questions and stuff you can ask.. also there are online missionairies on the website that answer all questions in real time. slater mater. | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:57:17 AM | One should NEVER choose a religion based on looking for a faith that shares a few of the same ideals as you. The OP was tired of the Hypocrisy he found in the Catholic church, and wanted to find people that share his moral stance towards alcohol and drugs.
I respond with: The Mormons have just as much hypocrisy (if not more) as the catholics. If you want to join them, then you had better make damned sure that you are fully aware of their beliefs and history before joining, or you may (MAY) regret it later.
When researching Mormonism, DO NOT restrict yourself to just official LDS or pro-LDS websites. 1) There is a myriad of different mormon churches out there, and the LDS one may not be the one for you. and 2) the official history of the LDS church is flawed and sanitized. Without a fuller picture of the church, you are doing yourself and injustice. | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 8/3/2007 10:41:23 AM | i'm Catholic and i belive that smokeing, drinking, pre-marrital sex and all illegal drugs are moraly wrong.
Going to a religion that teaches that Satan is Jesus' brother probably isn't the answer. The problem that you have is actually a wonderful opportunity to learn God's plan for our relationships with Him.
Romans 14:22-23So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
Christianity is a personal relationship with God, God will write his desires FOR YOU on your heart. God never intended for every aspect of our walk to be dictated by man-made doctrines. Some people are weak in faith, some are strong and God tailors Christianity to the individual. Each person is allowed to grow into the faith, with God only asking of the individual, what the individual has the strength to offer.
My suggestion is that you take this as an opportunity to grow in your relationship with Jesus, allow God to lead your heart and ignore the doctrines of men. | |
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| I'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 8/3/2007 12:53:49 PM | If you would like to get a balanced view on The LDS chruch i suggest you read the Book Mormon America by Richard Ostling.
It gives you the good the bad and the ugly of modern day Mormons. it has been a long time since i have read the book. it did give me a greater understanding of my LDS neighbors and friends. as a whole I find them to be good neighbors. We can sit on the front porch I with a beer and they with a Lemonade and it's cool. A safe conversation is to talk about the Utah Jazz. Nobody has ever preached to me or made any attempt to convert me.
if i were ask i would tell them my feeling on the founding and the history of the Chruch. | |
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| I'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 8/3/2007 2:23:44 PM | it sounds like Joseph Smith (founder of Moronism & self-proclaimed latter day 'saint')
was quite a scam artist and snake-oil salesman to me, basically figured the easiest/quickest path to wealth was to invent a 'new religion'
(sort of like L. Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology ) | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 4/7/2008 4:32:02 PM | | I believe according to the Bible,Jesus turned water to wine. Would that make Jesus hypocritical? lol! I don't believe that birth control was invented back when the commandments were established when it came to pre marital sex. When it comes to the point of smoking,have you ever thought that automobiles and other polluting inventions are morally wrong?You must think about these things and accept that nothing is perfect and never will be. But learning to control and better ourselves brings us closer to perfection. | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 4/7/2008 5:40:25 PM | To quote another forum user:
"It's only "pre-marital sex" if you plan on getting married" | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 4/7/2008 7:52:04 PM | I realize that this topic is several years old now, but for some reason it was resurrected. Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea by glancing at the OP, I wanted to provide the following clarification.
OP said:
i'm Catholic and i belive that smokeing, drinking, pre-marrital sex and all illegal drugs are moraly wrong. the problem i'm having is finding others who feel the same way i do about those things. people keep telling me to join church groups to meet people like that and i did but most of the people their wer hypocritical. they belived that they could do whatever they wanted to cuz they wer Catholic so they wer going to be saved by god. only a very small handfull of Catholics i met wern't like that.
I don't know what planet you're on, but on Earth, that is definitely not the teaching of the (Roman) Catholic Church. In fact, Catholicism is very often criticized by certain other Christian denominations for teaching against the doctrine of "once saved, always saved", also known as OSAS. In Catholicism, the soul who commits a mortal sin loses his salvation unless he makes a confession to an ordained priest or bishop, along with an act of contrition (which is to say, a solemn vow to never commit sin again) and subsequently an act of penance. It is an extremely alien concept in the Catholic faith to assume "I'm Catholic, therefore I'm saved." A Catholic can certainly hope to be saved, but he is never sure of it until the day of judgment. As Philippians 2:12 states, "with fear and trembling work out your salvation."
It's true, Catholics are not against alcohol. We teach moderation: alcohol can be good and even healthy when drunk in moderate amounts. Drunkenness, however, is considered sinful because it prevents the mind from thinking rationally and clearly.
The notion that my Church is hypocritical because we allow children to drink a very small amount of the consecrated Blood of Christ is patently absurd. As far as I know, unless a kid is severely alcohol-intolerant, he's not going to get drunk from one sip. And furthermore, receiving the Precious Blood is optional, anyway. No Catholic is required to receive both the Host and the Chalice. No Catholic is even required to receive Communion at all except once during Eastertide.
The Catholic Church doesn't have a definitive stance on tobacco. I know some priests who smoke, and others who are anti-tobacco. It seems to be left to the individual believer to decide.
The Catholic Church is indeed firmly against sex outside of marriage (this should be obvious), and has many apostolates dedicated to promoting chastity.
It should also be obvious that the Catholic Church is against illegal drugs. | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 4/7/2008 8:17:32 PM |
The Catholic Church is indeed firmly against sex outside of marriage (this should be obvious), and has many apostolates dedicated to promoting chastity.
It should also be obvious that the Catholic Church is against illegal drugs.
but symbolic cannibalism is just fine  | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 4/8/2008 9:29:19 AM | This was revived?
why?
Mormonism?
Why?
Because its more moral then other belief systems?
Isn't Joseph Smith the founder? The man who says he talked to an angel that was hiding gold tablets somewhere in the usa and because he proved to the angel he was a good man he loaned them to Joseph to write the book of Mormon from?
And of course the tablets were given back to the angel and are in hiding once again till they will be revealed again...
ummmm ok that sounds more sound and moral then the other stories religions are built on. | |
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| i'm considering Mormonism
Posted: 4/8/2008 9:50:14 AM |
Isn't Joseph Smith the founder? The man who says he talked to an angel that was hiding gold tablets somewhere in the usa and because he proved to the angel he was a good man he loaned them to Joseph to write the book of Mormon from?
The thing about the gold tablets looks a bit dodgy - couldn't the angel have had copies of the tablets made for Smith to keep and make available for scrutiny?
I'd also like to know more about the special underpants that Mormons wear. I'm getting tired of traditional Y fronts and could be prepared to adopt a faith offering superior underwear, especially if supplied free of charge. | |
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