rks58
| Joined: 1/28/2006 Msg: 26 | |
| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/10/2006 9:04:52 PM |
as far as iran/isreal go they'd get a lot more moral support from me if they stopped the destroy isreal B.S.
I'll agree that it's not the most diplomatic of approaches but it does make some lobbies in D.C. sit up, take notice and, hopefully, suggest that maybe a less extreme approach to Iran might be a good idea | |
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arri
| Joined: 10/5/2005 Msg: 27 | |
| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/10/2006 9:51:27 PM | The Palestinians didn't rejoice over the WTC tragedy either.
- The terrorist act was strongly condemned by every single Palestinian organization including Fatah, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Hamas, Workers Unions and Committees, Human Right organizations (AlHaq, Law, Palestine Center for Human Rights), student associations, municipalities, mosques and churches, etc.
- The US Consul General in Jerusalem reported that he has received a huge stack of faxes from Palestinians and Palestinian organizations expressing condolences, grief and solidarity. He himself was pained to see that the media chose to focus on the sensational images of a few Palestinians rejoicing.
- The Palestine Legislative Council condemned the terrorist attack on the United States and sent an urgent letter of condolences to Mr. J Dennis Hasterd, Speaker of the House of Representatives.
- Palestinians in East Jerusalem held a candle-light vigils on 12 and 14 September to express their grief and solidarity with the American families struck by this tragedy. Mr. Abdel Qader Al-Husseini, son of the late Palestinian leader Faisal Al-Husseini led one of the vigils.
- Jerusalem University students, along with the President of the University and the Deans of the various Faculties, began a blood donation drive in East Jerusalem. Students and professors went to hospitals in order to donate blood for the American victims who need it.
- The 1 million Palestinian students in the Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, stood five minutes in silence to express their solidarity with the hundreds of American children who have been struck by this strategy, which resembles in its shocking effects their daily sufferings.
http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm#Expressions%20of%20grief%20and%20sympathy%20in%20the%20Arab%20and%20Muslim%20world: | |
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| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 12:19:20 AM |
Here is an irony for you. If the United States had supported Iran in 1998, most likely, there wouldn't have been an attack in 2001.
Ah.. what an irony for me.. lol. You must be seriously deluded. What I get from your posts is that Iran was such a great country. That US is responsible for this international mess?? Iran tried to help.. but US is so bad, blah blah blah... One sided? Of course not. Iranian sided? but of course.
And now you are also trying to claim that there was no rejoice among Palestinians or Iranians over the 9/11 tragedies ?? Is that right? This one smells like persecutions of Christians in Iran.. remember that one? lol
You should do a little more research before posting .. instead of just posting rubbish. May be you should take your own advice. | |
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arri
| Joined: 10/5/2005 Msg: 29 | |
| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 8:07:55 AM | This one smells like persecutions of Christians in Iran.. remember that one? lol
Another very stupid and totally idiotic comment.
I guess you just make them up as you go ..
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| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 11:30:27 AM | Whats happening to the Palistinians is a disgrace. The west demands democracy yet punishes the people when they elect a government that doesn't meet the satisfaction of Washington.
In the words of Malcolm X "wrong is wrong no matter who says it".
It takes 2 to fight and 2 to stop.
It's time to give peace a chance. | |
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rks58
| Joined: 1/28/2006 Msg: 31 | |
| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 2:12:45 PM |
This one smells like persecutions of Christians in Iran.. remember that one? lol
I would like to see your citations on that one condiering christians are one of the protected minorities in Iran (legal protection, reserved parliamentary seats). Maybe you are referring to some historical persecution that I am not aware of? | |
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| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 2:18:29 PM | Weren't you the one that claimed there was no persecutions of Christians in Iran?
Different pic but your name is the same, right?
Whatever it is, you make baseless claims.. idiotic at best.
You are only interested in one side. I guess that's the Iranian side or perhalps you are just anti-US like some folks here.
Hence, the delusion.. because you've got your ego invested in world events that are outside of your control.
hahaha haha ha.. so funny.. so so funny..
Man, at least try to act your age.
-Solak | |
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| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 2:25:17 PM |
I would like to see your citations on that one condiering christians are one of the protected minorities in Iran (legal protection, reserved parliamentary seats). Maybe you are referring to some historical persecution that I am not aware of?
I already dig up world news on that before. It's dating back to 1980s until sometime present.. here is something from CNN http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/09/05/state.dept.religion/index.html
The report cited Iran for implementing policies designed to intimidate religious groups and continuing abuse of the country's religious minorities, most notably Jews. The report made special mention of this summer's trial of 10 Jews who were convicted on charges of espionage, saying the Iranian court deprived the defendants of nearly all legitimate means of defense. Iraq was also seen as hostile to certain religions and was cited by the report for a decade-long campaign of "murder, summary execution and protracted arbitrary detention" against the religious leaders and followers of Iraq's Shi'a Muslim population.
The report cites tens of thousands of arrests, widespread desecration of holy sites and forced removal of religious populations from certain areas of the country, and concludes the Iraqi government has managed to prevent followers from practicing their religion.
-Solak | |
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rks58
| Joined: 1/28/2006 Msg: 34 | |
| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 3:17:32 PM | Here are some excerpts from the "2000 Annual Report on International Religious Freedom:Iran" released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor U.S. Department of State, September 5, 2000
The Government restricts freedom of religion. The Constitution declares that the "official religion of Iran is Islam and the doctrine followed is that of Ja'fari (Twelver) Shi'ism." It also states that "other Islamic denominations are to be accorded full respect," and designates Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians as the only "recognized religious minorities," which, "within the limits of the law," are permitted to perform their religious rites and ceremonies and "to act according to their own canon in matters of personal affairs and religious education." Although the Constitution states that "the investigation of individuals' beliefs is forbidden" and that "no one may be molested or taken to task simply for holding a certain belief," the adherents of religions not specifically protected under the Constitution do not enjoy freedom of activity. This situation most directly affects members of the Baha'i Faith.
Religious activity is monitored closely by the Ministry of Islamic Culture and Guidance and by the Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS). Adherents of recognized religious minorities are not required to register individually with the Government, although their community, religious, and cultural events and organizations, as well as schools, are monitored closely. Baha'is are not recognized by the Government as a legitimate religious group but are considered an outlawed political organization. Registration of Baha'i adherents is a police function. Evangelical Christian groups have been pressured by government authorities to compile and hand over membership lists for their congregations. Evangelicals have resisted this demand.
Members of religious minorities generally are barred from becoming school principals. Applicants for public-sector employment are screened for their adherence to Islam. The law stipulates penalties for government workers who do not observe "Islam's principles and rules." Religious minorities may not serve in the army, the judiciary, or the security services. The Constitution states that "the Army of the Islamic Republic of Iran must be an Islamic army, i.e., committed to an Islamic ideology and the people, and must recruit into its service individuals who have faith in the objectives of the Islamic Revolution and are devoted to the cause of achieving its goals." Baha'is are prohibited from government employment.
University applicants are required to pass an examination in Islamic theology, which limits the access of most religious minorities to higher education (despite the fact that public-school students receive instruction in Islam).
The Government allows recognized religious minorities to conduct the religious education of their adherents. This includes separate and privately funded Zoroastrian, Jewish, and Christian schools, but not Baha'i schools. The Ministry of Education, which imposes certain curriculum requirements, supervises these schools. With few exceptions, the directors of these private schools must be Muslim. Attendance at these schools is not mandatory for recognized religious minorities. All textbooks used in course work must be approved for use by the Ministry of Education, including religious texts. Religious texts in non-Persian languages require approval by the authorities for use. This requirement imposes sometimes significant translation expenses on minority communities.
Recognized religious minorities are allowed by the Government to establish community centers and certain cultural, social, sports, or charitable associations that they finance themselves. This does not apply to the Baha'i community, which since 1983 has been denied the right to assemble officially or to maintain administrative institutions. Because the Baha'i Faith has no clergy, the denial of the right to form such institutions and elect officers has threatened its existence.
Religious minorities suffer discrimination in the legal system, receiving lower awards in injury and death lawsuits, and incurring heavier punishments, than Muslims. Muslim men are free to marry non-Muslim women but marriages between Muslim women and non-Muslim men are not recognized.
I don't really see how arresting 10 Jews for espionage (that's spying) constitutes religious persecution even if Iranian law doesn't give people the same rights we have and I'm not at all clear on what Iraq's actions have to do with Iran.
You really do need to look at your definition of persecution. I'm not saying there no restrictions but there is big difference between what Iran does to it's christians and jews in comparison to what countries like Israel does to the palestinians, Turkey does to the kurds or Iraq did to the shi'ites. | |
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arri
| Joined: 10/5/2005 Msg: 35 | |
| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 3:33:13 PM | There are 2 christian minorities in Iran. Armenians and Assyrian. True, a lot of them left after the mullahs came in and so did a shit load of Iranians. Los Angeles now has almost 600,000 Iranians and you can get government services in Persian.
Also, the only christian nation in that part of the world is Armenia that is being blockaded by Turkey and Azerbaijan. The only country on their borders that's actually helping them is Iran. Iran is also one of the first countries that recognized Armenia as a sovereign nation back in 1992.
Do a little research instead of spewing hate. Christianity in Iran goes back to the time of Christ. They have had their ups and downs and issues but they are still thriving.
Armenian Center for National and International Studies examines the relationship between Armenia and Iran: http://www.acnis.am/pr/iran.htm | |
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| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 3:41:18 PM | Actually, you can't compare Iran to Turkey. Iran has a fundamentalist, religious government. There is no religious freedom. All over your article, it reinforces these sentiments.
Turkey has a democracy, not a religious theocracy.
Do I have to remind you the US embassy take over and hostage crisis to explain what kind of regime is in charge in Iran? I mean come on..
You don't see President of Turkey calling for total destruction of Isreal. Or people better adhere to Islamic way of life. Or have Islam shoved down their throat.
Turkey is a Modern Country. Iran still lives in 7th century.
Are you Iranian by any chance?
-Solak | |
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rks58
| Joined: 1/28/2006 Msg: 37 | |
| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 4:02:21 PM |
Are you Iranian by any chance?
And I would have to ask: Is your heritage Turkish?
I fail to see what either question has to do with the facts of the issues.
Iran is a theocracy with Islam as it's official majority religion and has restrictions on the others. Turkey is not a theocracy and has restrictions on the minority rights of anyone not specifically recognized by the Treaty of Lausanne. I fail to see the difference.
Modern Iran has a history of enforcing Islam at the expense of other religions. Modern Turkey has a history of enforcing Turkish ethnic identity at the expense of other ethnic identities. I fail to see the difference.
And to answer your question, no, I am not Iranian. I am also not Turkish. I am firmly commited to reason, logic and historical accuracy over revisionism. | |
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| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 4:16:53 PM |
Turkey is not a theocracy and has restrictions on the minority rights of anyone not specifically recognized by the Treaty of Lausanne. I fail to see the difference.
lol. Now we are getting somewhere. Treaty of Lausanne? Oh boy. Let me guess. Armenian or Greek?
Modern Iran has a history of enforcing Islam at the expense of other religions. Modern Turkey has a history of enforcing Turkish ethnic identity at the expense of other ethnic identities. I fail to see the difference.
That's a good argument. But there is a big difference between Iran and Turkey. I'm sorry that you fail to see the difference. Turkey is a much better place to live than Iran.
-Solak | |
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rks58
| Joined: 1/28/2006 Msg: 39 | |
| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 4:43:07 PM |
lol. Now we are getting somewhere. Treaty of Lausanne? Oh boy. Let me guess. Armenian or Greek?
Still not even close.
I mention the Treaty of Lausanne because it is the only reason Turkey even recognizes the christian Greek minority but the two arguments are not different, one is simply a negative expression (what they don't do) and the other a positive expression (what they do do) of the same point. | |
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arri
| Joined: 10/5/2005 Msg: 40 | |
| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 4:54:41 PM | Actually, you can't compare Iran to Turkey.
Actually I can, because I have been to both place .. and to answer your other question .. I am European born to Persian parents (hence the dark good looks) and I follow the Zoroastrian faith that is also one of the protected religious minorities in Iran .. and I have family in Iran. Therefore, I would know better than you if any persecution was going on there.
As far as Israel's destruction .. I have done some business with a couple of Israeli software firms. The Israelis are nice people, competent and professional ... and a lot of them are not all that happy with the Zionists and the way the Palestinians are being treated.
No matter what my background, I think mistreating the Palestinians is wrong ... and with Egypt and Jordan bought and paid for by the American tax payers, I am very glad that someone down there still cares about them.
Iran is large mix of many cultures. The Turks, the Kurds, the Azaris, the Baluch and Turkoman and plenty of Iranian Jews, and Armenian and Assyrian Christians ... even the 3 million Arabs who whine constantly about being treated like second class citizens still think of themselves as Iranians. The history has always demonstrated toleration for everyone.
Let me give you a little hint. Persians like their lifestyle, good times and boinking just as much as anyone else. The revolution happened. We can't turn back the clock and when the hostage taking took place, you were still sucking on your mom's tities. The war with Iraq unfortunately solidified their hold. However, the hardliners were old to begin with and they are dying left .. right and centre. The Mullahs are not going to be in power for much longer. Even right now, they are mostly decorative ornaments.
Since the end of the Iraq war, Iran has been rebuilding and they have done a good job despite the US sanctions. The power and the real administration of the country in not in the Mullah hands anymore. The major issue in Iran right now is their economy. They want membership in WTO, lifting of US sanctions and possibly getting some of the 20 billion of Shah's money that US kept.
They have made many attempts to get US to the negotiating table with no success.
Strategically, US made a mistake. Iran was becoming a regional super power and US wanted to limit their growth. That's why US made a mountain out of mole with the nuclear issues to use the UNSC to increase the sanctions and limit Iranian economic growth. They did the same thing to Iraq after the first gulf war.
Iranians saw this as an opportunity and they are fanning the flames with their rhetoric to keep the issue alive and well in front of the media .. and looks like they are going to get their way. The UNSC couldn't agree because there were no evidence of wrong doing (kind of reminds you of the Iraqi WMDs ) and the E3 is now preparing new economic incentives and I am hoping soon they'll make deal and end all this crap.
Economic sanctions don't do anything anyway except hurt the general population. The people in power and dictators thrive in these situation. Look at all the palaces Saddam built when they had to do an oil for food program for his people.
I have said this before. Sticks don't work as well as carrots. The Iranian general population is US friendly. Therefore, if US really wants a co-operative and friendly Iran in the future, they should widen their relationship rather than making their own rhetoric that has obviously worked on ignorant people .. such as yourself. | |
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annaa
| Joined: 5/13/2006 Msg: 41 | |
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| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/15/2006 9:37:55 PM | @Arri: Trying to paint a Rosey Iran on plentyoffish pages?? tsk tsk tsk lol Alright Iran is nice. Minus the mullahs, Islamic sharia law that's imposed upon people and the President who calls for complete destruction of Israel.
Therefore, if US really wants a co-operative and friendly Iran in the future, they should widen their relationship rather than making their own rhetoric that has obviously worked on ignorant people .. such as yourself.
...coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment.
Alright. I'm kidding. I'm sure there are nice things about Iran. Loose the religious dictatorship, I think we'll all be on the same page.
@rks58:
Still not even close.
You are definitely not Turkish friendly. I can't guess. What's it? A serb? lol
I'm Turkish.
-Solak | |
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arri
| Joined: 10/5/2005 Msg: 43 | |
| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/16/2006 12:30:16 PM | You are Turkish
Lets take a look at your track record.
Genocide of Armenians on the same scale as Hitler with the Jews and instead of an apology, now that they have a country of their own that is land locked, they have to suffer from a Turkish blockade.
Relocation, depopulation and genocide and Kurds. Turkish military was even ordered to shoot to kill the Kurds that were being chased by Saddam at the end of the first gulf war. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place, and we all know how the Greeks feel about you guys ... and Serbs and well .... everyone
Ottoman empire is dead ... you better get over it. Incidentally, Turkish law, just like any other predominantly Muslim country is based on Sharia law ... | |
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| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/16/2006 12:47:46 PM | video release: Munich,.. Although the movie caters to alot of Hollywood oopla!! and is speilberge film.. never less the Human factor on both sides is undeniable, I found it thought provoking and attempts to dealve in the minds of both sides,,, some facts were left out and changed for the sake of hollywood.( fact.ie that Prime minister Golda M.was denied by German government when she offered to use the Isreall secrete service to assist in the crisis).. Although it seemed one sided the fact that it did atempt to see the side of the other however feeble, was atleast a step in the right direction..i dont look for the political agenda rather, than the Human factor of each character.....however apart they were, they all shared a love for their country, family and friends.. | |
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ousu
| Joined: 6/2/2005 Msg: 45 | |
| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/16/2006 12:58:57 PM | In fact Arri is right what becomes to Iran and Turkey. Unfortunately one of the reasons why quite many have been worried about the idea Turkey's joining the EU is its policy against Kurds. Turkey is said to be one of those stooges of the US.
Seems that many Iranians (living in Iran) have quite nonchalant attitude towards what the president of Iran is saying - this man has not that much power. I heard a funny comment this evening from an Iranian in business here "Beh, we obviously showed to the rest of world we can do similar kind of stupid thing as the US: to choose a big-headed as a president."
Funny that people who are so afraid of "barbarian Iran" do not look for facts which are not even hidden - how Iran has been trying to get the US at the negotiating table before, for instance. It does not matter which country is in question, they all understand business. Israel can play the role of the middleman. (Btw, how many senators in the US have been getting little assistance from the direction of the state of Israel? I do not know so this is an honest question, just something what was thrown in the air a couple of days ago... Another question: if the US manage to put Iran on his knees, what will be the consequences what becomes to China? Economically China is the dangerous one - and one can attack China only in that field :) | |
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annaa
| Joined: 5/13/2006 Msg: 46 | |
| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/16/2006 2:32:59 PM | Ok guys Im greek so stop the fighting and step out of the way  | |
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| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/16/2006 8:41:17 PM |
Lets take a look at your track record.
My track record? I guess I own entire Turkish people. lol
Genocide of Armenians on the same scale as Hitler with the Jews and instead of an apology, now that they have a country of their own that is land locked, they have to suffer from a Turkish blockade.
I don't think Turks will loose any sleep over what you think, Arri. But be my guest at indulging in your own fantasies... Poor Armenians. Bad Turks.. lol I think your adiuence level drop to that of a 5 year old at this point.
we all know how the Greeks feel about you guys ... and Serbs and well .... everyone 
It's so funny.. haha ha ha.. lol
Ottoman empire is dead ... you better get over it. Incidentally, Turkish law, just like any other predominantly Muslim country is based on Sharia law ... Perhalps that's what you want it to be.. based on Sharia law. That way Turkey would be just like Iran. If you ever been to Turkey, you'd know that's not the case. If anything Turkey's laws are anti-Islamic almost. That's of course if you ever been to Turkey like you claimed... Alright. Brother? get your facts straight. at least try :-)
-Solak | |
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| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 5/17/2006 7:25:27 AM | | Palestine needs to stop attacking Israel. Palestinians are Arabs, simply put. Israel is already the smallest country in the Middle-East and the Arabs want to make it much smaller...to wipe it off the face of the earth. Shame on the Arabs for even thinking that. There are already many Muslim countries in the world but there is no Jewish country in the world...except Israel. The Jews need their own homeland just like the Arabs already have many homelands. Arabs treat Berbers like second-class citizens. Arabs still act like colonizers in places like northern Africa. The ex-President of Tunisia even said that. | |
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| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 6/12/2006 9:28:38 PM | Ok who is attacking Who?????
>>>>Too Much False Media! When I ask someone what Country are they from, I don't expect to hear "I am Jewish". There are Jews everywhere just like there are Roman Catholics Everywhere, and etc...... So to Justify that the Jews need their Own Country. Well, In Palastine, there are Muslims and Christians. And when someone asks me What country are you from I say "Canada" I don't respond I am Roman Catholic. So you could be living in Russia, Poland, where ever.......Being Jewish is a Relgion......Why What Power???
To Hear their Stories, well, Exile is not a Very good Thing. Neither, is Disrespecting Humanity.
How do you Justify, the Gaza Strip Slayings????? How much more Blood has to be Shed............Then you wonder Why there is so much Amosity Among This World. Who do YOU Believe.......???????????? | |
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| Israeli Occupation? Posted: 8/16/2007 11:10:47 AM | I'm a proud Israeli, I am so happy to hear that the majority here are pro israeli.
Thank you for the support. | |
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