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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/25/2007 6:17:12 PM | These "independent" threads seem to be getting out of hand here..
Women that have to support 4+ kids without any financial help from the sperm donor have to take care of their children, not to mention the countless other responsibilites they have to take care of. They have to be "independent" in some fashion just to survive.
Men that have to support 4+ kids, working their a$$ off because his ex-wife is a drunk, addict, etc..have to be "independent" in order to take care of his chidren..and he'll work his butt off to take care of those kids.
Single men and single women that have no family or outside support other than their current jobs HAVE to make it on thier own with whatever means they can. They have no other choice. They are 'independent" and take care of themselves and are proud of it. As all of us are if we can just make a decent living and take care of our parents/pets/or children without asking for a "handout."
We all measure the term "independence" in different ways, based on our current circumstances.
Sans | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/25/2007 6:38:24 PM | Another reason I have had a hard time finding Mr. Right is because alot of men I've met have NOTHING to contribute to my life. I have worked very hard to have what I have and keep it. Why would I want a man that would not have a problem grabbing ahold of my shirttail and leaving whatever he has or doesn't have. If a man does not have at least what I have then I do not see where we have much in common. If he is too lazy to work for what he wants then I surely do not want him. And a man that whines because he has nothing because of the ex.. because of this and that.. excuses for everything.. nope don't want that either. Also, what kind of man would give up his friends (if he has any) his home and just move in with me?? What does that say about him? Or what if he has nothing to give up. once again what do we have in common. As far as women who have the need to say they are independent to make a point. I have never had to explain myself to anyone, my friends, family and anyone else who meets me knows pretty quickly that I'm independent.
I think you pretty much said it all Hey being independant should be a plus!! there are alot of people that are so needy and it's quite frankly "silly" and your right if he is to lazy to work for what he has I surely don't want them either. | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/25/2007 7:12:24 PM | Yes I would like to know this as well, It seems that we have our act together than most and we always know what we want in life and we always know which direction we are going, well most of the time. So why is it they Always go after the Bad Girl Image? If you help explain this one I would like to know.
I would like to say that they would like someone that is more controlling in there realtionship? | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/25/2007 7:59:42 PM | Quote:
"If a man does not have at least what I have then I do not see where we have much in common."
I have a problem with the phrase "at least" here. It seems like you are saying that he has to have at least as much as you do, but you don't have to have as much as he does.
This is a terrible and extremely superficial double standard. This is the kind of attitude that ruins dating for a lot of men. And it really makes you look like anything but "independent." To me, it makes you look like the exact opposite.
I realize that people are probably better off if they are somewhat "equally yoked," but I find this double standard and scorekeeping utterly repugnant. I used to have someone who shares this distasteful opinion as a massage client. She decided to take matters into her own hands, so she started working out, had plastic surgery, a boob job, and liposuction, and is now making $250 an hour on sugardaddy.com. At least she is honest about who she is and what she wants.
If you are going to demand money for love, you might as well take all pretense away and call it what it is. And visit sugardaddy.com if you can command a decent rate. | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/25/2007 8:26:14 PM | Independant women:
Guess I qualify - no husband/boyfriend/significant other/son/brother to help me out. Does that make me independent?? But I still live in the country, work on my own tractor and old car, can fix a few things around the house, work full time, raise a teen daughter single handedly. Oh - I do date.... but you know what? A problem with having an independent spirit both innate (sp??) as well as conditioned - is that you JUST WON'T settle in order to have the extra income and extra hand.
If men don't date "independent" women (and they do, I'll testify to that) maybe it's because they've been dissed by one of them?? Being dissed isn't any fun. I really don't believe the majority of men would like a clinging vine helpless and unintelligent woman for a partner. Would you? | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/25/2007 8:33:46 PM |
I have a problem with the phrase "at least" here. It seems like you are saying that he has to have at least as much as you do, but you don't have to have as much as he does.
This is a terrible and extremely superficial double standard. This is the kind of attitude that ruins dating for a lot of men. And it really makes you look like anything but "independent." To me, it makes you look like the exact opposite.
I agree with this in a similar way. I see a lot of younger women out there in their early 20s who have moved out of home. They own nothing as for a bed, fridge, washing machine and so on. A number of these women have gave me the idea or directly told me that they will only date a man who has these possessions. Meaning that they will only date a man who they can move in with and this man has to own things that they can use. But these same women don't own anything them selves but yet they demand a man who does own these things for their privilege. | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/25/2007 8:47:50 PM | Dear Folks:
I can tell you one thing for sure, I'm independent enough to know that, I don't need to read more than 70 pages to decide whether I'm independent or not. Hell, how would I have made it to this age if I were not! Do I have to announce it? (Guess it's time to go back over my profile and see if I already did?) No, I LIVE it.
This "independency" has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the fact that I want a loving man at my side. In fact, I NEED him......to be my friend, my partner, my lover, my playmate....Something that can not be filled by just anyone. Will I make it without him? Certainly, I will...but, it won't be as much fun.
Now, why not all go out there and look for whatever it is that YOU think will make you happy. The odds are that perhaps there's someone out there already looking for you at this very minute. Just be sure that when you find them, you don't toss them aside without looking hard and deep to find out if, in fact, you really DO need them.
And, I for one, already know that I NEED a friend like lookinbill, that man may not say it quite the way you want to hear it, but I, for one, hear him loud and clear. Missed ya,
my friend, good to see ya again.
Knittin Kitten
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/25/2007 9:00:42 PM | taterrific1 -- You have made a very valid point here. If a woman insist that the man have 'at least as much' as she (I suppose this means money and assets) - before she will have anything to do with him, then by absence of clarification - the woman implies that she would have no problem getting into a relationship with a guy who had MORE money and assets that she does. Hmmmmm?
That is one hell of a double standard that you pointed out there taterrific. And is core to the point of this thread. It would seem that one woman's idea of 'Independence' is that a guy has to have AT LEAST as much as SHE DOES but it is OK if He Has More than She does.
As goes an old song lyric "Great job if you can get it".
This is certainly descriptive of many women I have encountered in the last 10 years.
JoeBob | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/25/2007 9:33:04 PM | knitten kitten,
I love your spunk and energy!
I have energy now ......... and hope to equal your energy when I am your age!
One is as old or young as they think they are, right?
I agree with you whole-heartedly with your view of "independence" and need!
I just posted about this on another thread ...... and coincidentally .... as a response to lookinbill!
I do love his posts! ... even though we may not always agree.
You don't need to always agree, right?
I would ask lookinbill to open up his profile to emails from non USA residents, but his profile does not encourage email correspondence from a distance. 
But, if you care to, Bill, I am open to it!
And you too, knitten kitten!
Quality friends are always welcome! | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/25/2007 10:57:00 PM |
Posted By: sunshinekmc
Another reason I have had a hard time finding Mr. Right is because alot of men I've met have NOTHING to contribute to my life. I have worked very hard to have what I have and keep it. Why would I want a man that would not have a problem grabbing ahold of my shirttail and leaving whatever he has or doesn't have. If a man does not have at least what I have then I do not see where we have much in common. If he is too lazy to work for what he wants then I surely do not want him. And a man that whines because he has nothing because of the ex.. because of this and that.. excuses for everything.. nope don't want that either. Also, what kind of man would give up his friends (if he has any) his home and just move in with me?? What does that say about him? Or what if he has nothing to give up. once again what do we have in common. As far as women who have the need to say they are independent to make a point. I have never had to explain myself to anyone, my friends, family and anyone else who meets me knows pretty quickly that I'm independent.
I think you pretty much said it all Hey being independant should be a plus!! there are alot of people that are so needy and it's quite frankly "silly" and your right if he is to lazy to work for what he has I surely don't want them either.
A lot of men feel the same about the leeching women that try to latch on....
Again.. TRUE independence IS a plus. But the ones who truely are... usually don't go around announcing it because they don't have to.
And... there are some guys (and women) who have accumulated all the wealth they WANT, thus don't feel a need to work any more. And some of them don't have any remaining ties that they consider important enopugh to keep them from moving... if they find someone worth moving for. | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/25/2007 11:03:24 PM |
Posted By: ilex opaca on 8/25/2007 10  14 PM Subject: Why men wont date independant women Message: Independant women: Guess I qualify - no husband/boyfriend/significant other/son/brother to help me out. Does that make me independent?? But I still live in the country, work on my own tractor and old car, can fix a few things around the house, work full time, raise a teen daughter single handedly. Oh - I do date.... but you know what? A problem with having an independent spirit both innate (sp??) as well as conditioned - is that you JUST WON'T settle in order to have the extra income and extra hand. If men don't date "independent" women (and they do, I'll testify to that) maybe it's because they've been dissed by one of them?? Being dissed isn't any fun. I really don't believe the majority of men would like a clinging vine helpless and unintelligent woman for a partner. Would you?
Checked the profile...
Not needing to shout out "I'm independent!"... and yet showing true independence. (too bad... 900 miles...) | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/25/2007 11:28:17 PM | "If a man does not have at least what I have then I do not see where we have much in common." Hey ... not only do the guys have a problem with that ... I certainly do too.
I will admit to saying that I expect a man to be able to bring the same to the table as I do, but I have always just meant that with regards to "good health, and that he be self-supporting" (by that I mean he can pay his bills, feed himself, put a roof over his head).
I don't live "high on the hog", so I'm not really drawn to men who are out there doing that. I live a very simple, humble life and love my work ... I'm very dedicated to that life style. I am not a materialistic person in that I feel I have to keep up with the Jones'.
Cripies, right now, I barely have any furniture (I moved several times last year and the things I do cherish travel well in strong boxes and storage tubs) ... and it really doesn't bother me in the least. Now that I am buying a home, of course I'd eventually like to furnish it, but I'm in no rush.
I sleep on an air mattress (the kind with a motor) that my son gave me and it is perched on 9 storage tubs of the same height. The lap top I'm using is sitting on two big cardboard boxes. The TV in my bedroom is sitting on a shelving unit that is normally found in a garage.
So if a guy has a bed, and a washer & dryer and a couch and kitchen table with a couple of chairs ...
... he already has more than I do ... 
I can offer good health, and I can support myself ...
AND
... I have a lot of love to offer.  | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/25/2007 11:45:45 PM | Sunshine,
Wow, look at them dumping on you! I understand very well what you mean. This is the way I see it: If I could achieve the things I have while being the main caretaker of my kids when they were growing up (and i had my first child at age 19 and my youngest one now who's almost 17), then why can't a man who usually only has to worry about his job? I don't understand why some people, who have never even had kids, have nothing to show for their lives. Maybe it's not important to them, and i'm not judging anyone; I'm simply thinking that those people are probably very different from me. Similar values and character are extremely important in finding a compatible partner. I see nothing wrong with expecting a partner to have done something with his/her life .
Independent to me means "responsible." It means doing what you have to do to make it in this life, both financially and otherwise. I'm an independent woman. I work a 40 hour week, but other than that I have plenty of time to do whatever I want to do. So this business about independent women being too busy? What's that all about? That does not describe all of us. I want someone who works, has good credit, is a basically responsible, mature individual. I have worked hard for what I have even tho it's not much, but i am by no means a workaholic or anything like that. I am going to meet this mature responsible person so we can share what we have with each other, take care of each other, make life a little easier for each other.
You're right about those guys who "want to move in with you right away," that is a HUGE RED FLAG! Turns me off immediately. I want someone who wants me for WHO i am and not WHAT i have. If he has his own place (that doesn't mean he has to own it), then at least i can surmise he isn't looking for someone to "live with" for awhile until he finds the "right one." People do all kinds of things that they probably wouldn't do if they could take care of themselves financially, including living with someone solely because they cannot afford to make it on their own. I'd just rather not take that chance. | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 12:25:26 AM |
(Msg 1783) Yes I would like to know this as well, It seems that we have our act together than most and we always know what we want in life and we always know which direction we are going, well most of the time. So why is it they Always go after the Bad Girl Image? If you help explain this one I would like to know.
First, let me say I consider my partner an independent gal. In her earlier career she was temporarily posted in Europe, worked in the North American north, has purchased her own homes and now holds a lucrative position.
I think the "problem" is the interpretation of "we always know what we want in life and we always know which direction we are going." Is the independent woman willing to consider what her partner wants in life and where he's going?
The ability to be self-sufficient is admirable. The inclination to be head strong not so much when in a relationship.
When we first met my partner asked how I would deal with her occasional late night at the office and the possibility of a cancelled/altered vacation plan. My reply was to reiterate what I expected from a relationship and that was sex.
Late nights, modified vacations, no interference in personal finances, no dinner, piled up laundry.......no problem. Sex was my one and only stipulation and with good reason. Sex is what holds a romantic relationship together and if/when that's interfered with then there is a major problem.
Eleven years later and there is always time for sex. It's two people touching base, if you will. It puts everything else in perspective and as long as ones independence does not interfere with that all is well. | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 4:05:13 AM | Wow what a long thread... where have I been!
I would say that I am fairly independent and self sufficient in all respect, Do I need a man to support me? Not really.
Do I need a man so then I can be happy, Not really. Do I need a man to fulfil me sexually, not really, Do I need a man , etc etc. etc.
Do I want a man, absolutely ! I think that we all say that we dont need a man, but it's paradoxical, when I am in love, as much as I dont want it to happen, I tend to find myself needing. I have spent all my life saying that I dont need a man, and yet when I have loved, the "need" becomes paramount.
Having said that, it's almost like a fix, needing him is like not needing him to survive life, but needing him as his soul and energy gives a sense of completeness and wholeness. As I said, its paradoxical and nonsensical, I know, I dont need him as I am independent and yet I do need him as the experience of loving him gives an experience of completeness and wholeness. The soulmate thing !!
Hope I am making sense..  | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 8:53:38 AM | "I have a problem with the phrase "at least" here. It seems like you are saying that he has to have at least as much as you do, but you don't have to have as much as he does."
taterrific1 - I may have missed it - but I believe no woman on this thread has commented directly on your statement above. Seems the Independent gals don't mind this type of double standard.
So here is the real Independent woman's standard " I don't have to have as much as the guy does - but a guy has to have as much as I do"
And - Yes, I am repeating (in a fashion) the crux of the point - just to poke it in the eye of some so called 'independent women' - those with double standards about finances, assets and related things.
Of course having this attitude would make a woman not so independent wouldn't it?
JoeBob | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 10:38:30 AM |
"I have a problem with the phrase "at least" here. It seems like you are saying that he has to have at least as much as you do, but you don't have to have as much as he does."
taterrific1 - I may have missed it - but I believe no woman on this thread has commented directly on your statement above. Ummmm ... message 1793
Seems the Independent gals don't mind this type of double standard. I can't speak for the other ladies on the thread, but to be honest with you, 99% of the men who contact me (hoping for a "date" or "meeting") actually have considerably more than I do materialistically speaking.
I come from a very humble background and still live quite humbly. I do not need a big fancy home or car or "things" in order to feel loved and cared for. I do want a partner that I can have an intelligent conversation with and I do have very diverse interests, so he'd have to be able to converse about more than just the "game of the week" or "what's for dinner".
I have had offers from men to the tune of "I'm financially set and if this works out, you'd never have to work another day in your life." To which I have said, "I love being a nurse and helping others and can't imagine not doing that." Two have responded to that by saying, "Well then you could do 'volunteer' work because you would not have to work in order to live ... I can support us both, I can take care of you."
I got the impression the offers were made with the idea that it would free me up from having to work to support myself and provide myself with benefits. The men I speak of were close to retirement or already retired and were quite interested in having a partner who would be free to "travel" with them.
Some of us really do not have a "price" on our head (love). And as I stated in message 1793 ...
I will admit to saying that I expect a man to be able to bring the same to the table as I do, but I have always just meant that with regards to "good health, and that he be self-supporting" (by that I mean he can pay his bills, feed himself, put a roof over his head). I honestly don't think that's asking too much and there is no "at least" inferred in that statement.
If "normal" for him is an efficiency apartment with a sleeper sofa and he is in good health ... than he qualifies in my book. He's taking care of himself (not mooching off of others) and he's in good health. | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 10:51:45 AM |
taterrific1 - I may have missed it - but I believe no woman on this thread has commented directly on your statement above. Seems the Independent gals don't mind this type of double standard.
So far, this is correct, with one exception (Calisparkle, in msg 1794). And she agrees with what Calisparkle said! In her own words:
I don't understand why some people, who have never even had kids, have nothing to show for their lives. Maybe it's not important to them, and i'm not judging anyone; I'm simply thinking that those people are probably very different from me. Similar values and character are extremely important in finding a compatible partner. I see nothing wrong with expecting a partner to have done something with his/her life .
This statement is only true if you define "having done something with your life" in purely financial/tangible terms. But it is very revealing about a person's values and character.
________________
I honestly don't think that's asking too much and there is no "at least" inferred in that statement.
If "normal" for him is an efficiency apartment with a sleeper sofa and he is in good health ... than he qualifies in my book. He's taking care of himself (not mooching off of others) and he's in good health.
It's really a shame that more women don't think the way you do. | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 10:53:02 AM | There is a very similar thread, "Why are men threatened by an Independent, educated woman???".
(http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts4242835.aspx)
I'll repeat here what I said there last year:
It depends on how you define "independent". 'Independent' can be a very good thing, regardless of gender, if you're talking about being able to take care of yourself and function in the world; basically, being a mature adult. That being said, I have seen some women (hardly all, or even most) who seem to use their 'independence' as a weapon. Personally I much prefer a woman who is independent. But if somebody is too "in your face" about it and seeks out opportunities to illustrate just how little you mean to them, it makes me wonder what unresolved issues they have. Reading both of these threads, I'm definitely coming to the conclusion that some women (again, hardly all, or even most) use this as an excuse for not being able to hold onto a guy for very long; it's much easier to blame him for being an insecure s.o.b. than it is to muster the courage for a little introspection and realize that it may be the "hey-everybody-look-how-great-I-am!!" attitude that isn't attractive in either gender. People have mentioned grandmothers a couple of times already, so I'll add that mine was very strong-willed, and I'm pretty sure she would have shook her head at some of the posturing that we see today. Or is it only obnoxious when men do it.....?
____________________________
we are more likely to move away (or in some cases run)from any woman who needs to trumpet her accomplishment of the expected, or feel that because of who she is and what she has, that we might somehow be intimidated by it. There is much to be said about humility in this regard.
-msg 178, pg. 8 (male poster)
I believe that even mentioning that you are independent supports sexist ideas. We are in the new millenium now. How about the guys saying they are independent in their profiles or do we assume they are? I have met many men who are not and my personal choice is ones that are.
-msg 161, pg. 7 (female poster)
Why do you (as in , any woman who puts something about being strong and independent) think that we care ? We already just assume you are independent. It's preaching to the choir. Why do it ? We're left with no choice but to attach more meaning than is obviously warranted when you mention something like this in your profile. It's like saying "I bathe". Well, yeah, I hope so. You're independent. Great. I wasn't really too worried about a thirty year old woman living at home in her mother's basement spending the days scratching herself and playing videogames but okay, we got that out of the way. Thanks. Why did you tell me that again ?
You're independent. I take a shower daily. These are both pretty much equivalent statements in terms of the "Yeah...I figured" factor. So why do so many women put that in their profiles if there is no motivation other than to announce that they can live on their own ? Ladies, like it or not, if you can figure that one out, you can figure out why we see it as such an aloof statement (at best. Hostile at worst)
-msg 162, pg. 7 (male poster)
First flaw: OPs premise that men won't date independent women.
Hell, men run from women that aren't independent. They're seen as needy, clingy and insecure (in all facets) - high maintenance types.
Second flaw: use of the word 'independent'. How about 'secure'. Independence suggest that women don't need men. Nope, we're a pair-bonding species. Need to share the ups and downs with someone else. That's natural.
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How men and women reconcile the definition of need between the genders as a function of pair bonding depends on your immediate goals. Its a plastic definition that reflects your progress towards emotional, financial, and physical maturity - and the qualities you can offer to another in return for like-offering from them. Thats a two-sided definition, what you can give as well as what you need from your partner.
But more to the point: it speaks to your ability to adapt to the life and quirks of other in sharing your living space and your *emotional space* and privacy with your SO. We are all a little different, with our individual histories - and all the good and the bad that accompanies being human. To security, add the word tolerance. And the modifier, open-minded, because the definition of gender roles and expectations is still changing, as is the definition of family.
So the question becomes: would you date a woman who is emotionally and financially secure and responsible, spiritually and socially mature, tolerant and open-minded?
Do you really need an answer?
-msg 173, pg. 7 (female poster)
I know a woman at my work who is always talking about being very independent. But most of the time she is just looking to say that to start a fight with someone. This is the same thing with people who always want to talk about politics and religion. They don't really want to talk about those things, they want to find someone to argue with and fight with over those things.
Why would any sane guy want to date someone who is always looking for a fight?
There is a difference between being scared and not wanting to be bothered with someone's drama. Guess not everyone can tell the difference. Probably the reason why they are single in the first place.
-msg 190, pg. 8 (female poster) | |
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| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 11:01:53 AM | "There is a very similar thread, ..."
There are about other 50 similar threads... yet, I'm still not sure if I should put in my profile that I'm able to tie my own shoes... all by myself. | |
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