|
|
|
|
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 1:38:44 PM | Bookworm - I find post 1793 and 1794 are incomplete and indirect responses to what was said by taterrific1 and myself. So...
Question: Do you (the independent womon) believe it is defensible to hold a position that a man must have the same as I (equivalent) in finances and assets before I would enter into a relationship with him or even date him -- BUT it is OK if a guy I am interested in having a relationship with has more than me in the way of financial assets?
YES or NO.
Yes - the double standard I hold is defensible.
No - The double standard I hold is not defensible - but I hold it anyway - HA!
I think a yes or no answer is appropriate instead of dancing around...
JoeBob | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 2:30:14 PM | | I am beginning to wonder if SOME men who have nothing but bad past relationships can handle not only an independent woman, but a GOOD woman, who knows how to treat her man and also really be the other half, and not just be catered to, pampered, etc...........bc maybe they NEED someone to fix ? Or that they get intimidated bc we are pretty darned sufficient??? | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 3:36:53 PM | OK, I'll bite...
taterrific1 - I may have missed it - but I believe no woman on this thread has commented directly on your statement above. Seems the Independent gals don't mind this type of double standard.
JoeBob - So here is the real Independent woman's standard " I don't have to have as much as the guy does - but a guy has to have as much as I do"
And - Yes, I am repeating (in a fashion) the crux of the point - just to poke it in the eye of some so called 'independent women' - those with double standards about finances, assets and related things.
Of course having this attitude would make a woman not so independent wouldn't it?
That IS a double standard. I imagine a number of women hold this view and I suspect they don't even question or consider that it is a double standard... "It just is the way life works". You might be surprised JoeBob and taterrific1 how many men also subscribe to this point-of-view. Kind of good for all of us to be confronted by it and think about it with "fresh eyes".
The attitude, I believe, extends from the days when the man was the breadwinner and the woman the homemaker. Thus fewer men have a problem with women earning less than they do. In 2007 she has gone to work but the "breadwinner " attitude has been extended into an expectation that he should earn/have at least as much as she does.
It might be worth pointing out that, although I think it is slowly evolving, society also tends to have this double standard. I've been in several "unequal" relationships where I had greater assets/income than he did - and the men faced some societal pressure from it. Stay-at-home dads would likely be familiar with it. It's an extra wrinkle to sort out in relationships. | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 3:49:12 PM |
Question: Do you (the independent womon) believe it is defensible to hold a position that a man must have the same as I (equivalent) in finances and assets before I would enter into a relationship with him or even date him -- BUT it is OK if a guy I am interested in having a relationship with has more than me in the way of financial assets?
Yes, this is a double standard that I believe exists with most women, even though they may not admit it ... or, as Margo points out, they may not realize this.
I have been fortunate enough to have a career where my salary equalled my male colleagues, and my x was in the same field .... so, this was not an issue.
However, I have realized this double standards all my working life!
Which is why I stay away from these discussions as a general rule ..... I don't want to be labeled a women-hater!
I sincerely will say this. I do not look at what salary/income and assets my potential partner makes/has. I look at their values, work ethics, and history. Each person has their individual story, as I have mine. Circumstances do change. You cannot generalize. I have seen too many GREEDY people with money, who lack ethics! I have addressed this already in previous posts. | |
|
CTR916
|
Joined: 11/27/2006
Msg: 1805 | |
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 4:55:29 PM | Would we have to lie to an independent woman, order to be able to call her when we want to get laid?
I know, we have to lie to "independent" women, all the time; because they are usually using fallacy when they say they want honesty in relating and relationships. | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 5:17:57 PM |
BUT it is OK if a guy I am interested in having a relationship with has more than me in the way of financial assets? I just want to say that I do not "target" men who are better off than I am. Of course, that wouldn't be very hard to do because I basically started with nothing at the time of my divorce and had no skills that would earn me anything more than minimum wage.
During my marriage, I had no career that I was climbing the corporate ladder in. Before my marriage, I had only one year of college before I had to go to work to support myself. Key punch operators only got about $350. / month back then ... so what I earned I also spent. Sometimes I really just lived on crackers and peanut butter, but I was self-supporting and in good health.
After I married, it seemed like a good idea for me to stay home with our children because he was earning pretty good money. Even if I would have wanted a career, it would not have been easy as 10 of the 22 years of marriage we lived in Germany and the German government does not grant work visas to unskilled foreigners ... at least back then they didn't.
When I got the divorce, my three siblings just sort of appointed me the caregiver for my elderly parents who were both in their final years of terminal diseases, and while they covered my expenses for 3 1/2 years ... believe me there was no "profit" being made and certainly no money going into retirement (which did not exist anyways because remember ... for almost 22 years I was a stay at home mom).
After my parents died, I took what little inheritance I got and "indulged" myself ... I financed my way through nursing school. So in 1998 I finally had a"skill" that would support me and allow me the luxury of buying myself a home ... all I could afford was a double-wide mobile home, but it was gonna be all mine within 10 years and that sounded plausible considering I was already 49 years old.
As I stated in previous posts ... I come from a humble background and I live humbly. I don't have much, but what I do have does not have a "bank" as co-owner" listed on it. (Well okay, the house does, but that's it.)
Statement ... I am an independent woman in that I can take care of myself and still handle my affairs appropriately. Financially I can support myself ... perhaps not in the lap of luxury ... but I keep a roof over my head, gas in my car, and food on the table. Also, I am in relatively good health for a 58 year-old woman.
I have men contacting me for dates and meetings who have been working their entire lives, have been successfully climbing their "corporate ladders", stashing away their money in various different forms of investment.
I do not "target them, have not really even been in the mood to date since shortly after I joined POF. (My son, the baby of my four children and my only son, died suddenly in October 2005. I dropped off the site, but the friends I had made in the 6 months prior to that called me relentlessly and begged me to put my profile back up. I caved and so while I have actually been here about 2 1/2 years, my profile only shows since October 2005.)
Question ... If these men show interest in me and I return the interest, does that make me some kind of "gold digger"? Am I displaying some sort of "double standard" because I return interest in them even though I do not have close to the "financial assets" they have?
I made a previous statement in this thread about my expectations of a man, did not "dance around" about it ... it was clear and precise.
Some of us really do not have a "price" on our head (love). And as I stated in message 1793 ... I will admit to saying that I expect a man to be able to bring the same to the table as I do, but I have always just meant that with regards to "good health, and that he be self-supporting" (by that I mean he can pay his bills, feed himself, put a roof over his head). I honestly don't think that's asking too much and there is no "at least" inferred in that statement. If "normal" for him is an efficiency apartment with a sleeper sofa and he is in good health ... than he qualifies in my book. He's taking care of himself (not mooching off of others) and he's in good health.
Per JoeBob ...
So here is the real Independent woman's standard " I don't have to have as much as the guy does - but a guy has to have as much as I do" That is your personal interpretation of the statement that was made in this thread. It does not ...in any way, shape, or form ... encompass EVERY woman who has posted in this thread. In fact, if anything, it only really involves a select few. I can honestly say that is not the way I feel and have stated that as clearly as I know how.
I know from previous threads and encounters with you that you are very argumentative and do always think you are right ... so I do not expect you to believe any of us who do not fit your little scenario. Quite frankly, none of us really care if you believe us or not. We know who we are and what we have to offer to a relationship ...
AND
... none of us need the approval of the likes of you. | |
|
| |
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 5:52:24 PM | I am an independent woman. Not rich but in control of my finances, have savings, etc..........
I have never eyed nor asked what my guy has in the bank. I know his financial "values". He hates debt, paid cash for his Yukon. He uses cash, never charges anything. I was a stay at home mother for 18 years, and do not have retirement from a career; therefore I will doubtfully ever equal a man in financial ranking. It is their attitude toward their financial health and debt that interest me, not their worth or possessions. | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 6:00:24 PM |
Question: Do you (the independent womon) believe it is defensible to hold a position that a man must have the same as I (equivalent) in finances and assets before I would enter into a relationship with him or even date him -- BUT it is OK if a guy I am interested in having a relationship with has more than me in the way of financial assets?
YES or NO.
The answer: it's none of your business unless you are the potential man I might wish to forge a relationship with. 
Now if you are asking if financial means/assets need to equal for me to enter into a relationship with someone ~ my answer is clearly: NO.
I've yet to have a long-term relationship with a man who made more money than I did/do/have/will. Today ~ I could care less how much money he makes as long as he's happy with his life, knows that being a momma's boy is not appropriate at age 40, his child support is not in arrearages and there isn't a hatred of his ex ~ I'd be happy to pay the bills. But he does have to rub my feet at the end of the day. 
It's pretty simple ~ independence (for some of us) has nothing to do with money. If he's a whiny azz who is overly emeshed with his siblings, friends, parents, co-workers, etc. I deem that "dependent" and it's a short walk out the door to the car. Pretty simple. I have family/friends/etc., but they don't exist in my personal life unless it's necessary (weddings, funerals, birthdays, etc.) More contact than that ~ sorry ~ gotta go.  Oh, and I would never even consider a relationship with a last word freak, argue-monger, bigot or other unsavory traits that seem so prevelent at times ~ that goes for any man, rich or poor or in the middle. But that's just me.  | |
|
CTR916
|
Joined: 11/27/2006
Msg: 1810 | |
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 6:38:54 PM | | What if I don't list "independent", at all in my profile? Does that mean you can still date me or engage in some other form of relating), even if only for a few seconds? | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 6:55:51 PM | Isn't it strange - I've seen people post messages on this forum that in essence stated that anyone who pays cash and has no debt has a bad credit record and cannot finance anything.
So - how is one to know Shemail?
JoeBob | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 7:05:08 PM |
(Msg 1796) Do I want a man, absolutely ! I think that we all say that we dont need a man, but it's paradoxical, when I am in love, as much as I dont want it to happen, I tend to find myself needing. I have spent all my life saying that I dont need a man, and yet when I have loved, the "need" becomes paramount.
Having said that, it's almost like a fix, needing him is like not needing him to survive life, but needing him as his soul and energy gives a sense of completeness and wholeness. As I said, its paradoxical and nonsensical, I know, I dont need him as I am independent and yet I do need him as the experience of loving him gives an experience of completeness and wholeness. The soulmate thing !!
Hope I am making sense..
You're making perfect sense. That's exactly what it's all about.
When people talk about freedom and the need to be free do we really need it? One could argue slavery is fine if one is properly fed, clothed and treated OK. How does one explain to a person who has never been free what freedom is like?
We can look at Iraq and see that there are people who prefer their confining customs and religious rituals. Even when offered freedom they don't want it. They want to live as they are.
I believe that's similar to how some folks view relationships. Some have never experienced the "completeness and wholeness" or have and don't really care. Just as some people do not have the need for freedom others do not have the need for a relationship.
Just as there are people who don’t require a relationship there are those who insist on trying to convince them otherwise. It’s referred to as “the chase”. They either try in vain or after expending an extraordinary amount of energy they succeed in convincing the person. After a while the relationship collapses and the person who did the chasing becomes disillusioned.
How can the other person just end the relationship? How can they just walk away? Some people even have such little feeling or concern or hurt that they can can turn around and say, “Oh well. Let’s stay friends”, as if the relationship was nothing more than a casual friendship.
The difference between needing and wanting? When we obtain something we “need” we tend to put more effort into retaining it than if it’s something we merely want. | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 7:12:33 PM | | I say that I am independent because that is just the way that it is. I didn't plan for it to be that way but there was no one else to depend on. I would welcome some one to share the load. I grew up and moved out of state to college and had no family around. And it was the same as I finished med school. I cared for my home, even making repairs myself because I could not afford to have them done by others. I tend to my car and all financial matters myself. I was so busy with my education that relationships had to be put aside at that time. After my education was completed, so many men are so intimidated by my profession, or are looking for a "trophy wife". I am an average woman and not really trophy material, but would welcome forming a relationship with someone. In the meantime, I guess that "independent" accurately describes me, and a lot of other ladies in my position. | |
|
| |
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 7:44:04 PM | Calisparkle, you said it all! I , too, don't understand why people, especially those who have never had kids or been responsible for the support and care of an ill relative have nothing to show for their lives, and that isn't necessarily in the material sense, either. A person who has traveled all over the world and lives in an efficiency apartment certainly has "something to show" for their life. But I do agree that similar values and character are of paramount importance in finding a PARTNER. Many people are with other people, but they don't have PARTNERS, they have ALBATROSSES.
And the ones who want to "move in " right away generally do so, because they can't take care of themselves financially, generally because of mistakes and acts of omission when they were younger......
Nope, I wouldn't take the chance, either. | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 8:04:30 PM | Its not that men won't date an Independant woman. Its that women don't want the men who are willing to date them. They are too busy hoping to find a guy that won't love them enough to want to cuddle or assist with anything.
::grins:: Okay I am being a tad mean. But some Independant women might consider the men they rejected.
And I feel most Independant women don't want a man that will be dependant on them. Meanwhile other Independant women probably seek men they can depend upon. | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 8:18:45 PM | There is also a bit of misinformation going on - on this thread - perpetrated mostly by women. The myth is that women are either Independent or Dependent - which is far from the truth.
Most women are NEITHER. Most women are just capable, hard working good mothers who do not give much thought to the issue - they just do their best as a mom and/or wife and lover - mostly kind and giving to their man and most of these good women are unfortunately married.
The cast of so called Independent women are a minority - the rabid ones are even smaller in number.
Good women are not hard to find - except for the single ones - they are just drown out in the crowd by the blaring of card carrying Independents and their rabid spokeswomen.
JoeBob | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 8:40:36 PM | I'm content with myself, I don't feel I need someone else.  but I hope I could someday find a man that can respect my need to have alone time. | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 9:09:48 PM |
Most women are NEITHER. Most women are just capable, hard working good mothers who do not give much thought to the issue - they just do their best as a mom and/or wife and lover - mostly kind and giving to their man and most of these good women are unfortunately married.
The cast of so called Independent women are a minority - the rabid ones are even smaller in number.
Good women are not hard to find - except for the single ones - they are just drown out in the crowd by the blaring of card carrying Independents and their rabid spokeswomen.
Hey, HEY, some are both....more than you think....they just don't care about the money.....yes, we ARE out here!
I am both and proud of it. I have been the former in his statement and I have been the later also. How so, how can I be both? When I was very unappreciated by my alcoholic husband and/or I've come across friends or women who were good women to their uncaring husbands and felt the need to help them stand up for themselves and value themselves. Some women have worth but don't think they do...physically and mentally.
I never rubbed my Ex's nose for having more financial worth than he did....after all he supported me for years...on paper I have more, jobwise I have nada because I stopped to raise the kids.
I think all people that totally measure a person by financial worth, appearance or material holdings suck. Story....my SIL disliked my father because she THOUGHT he was rich because he played golf, drove an old Jaguar, and just had that aura about him. She loved my mother and stepfather because they were down to earth and frugal, nice folks, you know....not well off.... Well, they are the ones sitting on a gold mine.
I had to cynically giggle about that one....my ex thought she was nuts too. cheeps | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 9:28:51 PM | ^^^^^I have to agree with the last few posts here. I believe I posted some time ago that I am much more a "traditionalist" than anything else. That is just about as unnerving as "independent" to some. I took a royal POF public beheading for expressing my lack of interest in being "equal" to the man in my life. I don't wish to be any man's equal ~ I just want to be the woman. He can be the man. I can't see where this "movement" (augh ~ I hate the term) did anything for me personally (others can view it however they wish, I'm only stating my opinion.) Ok, so I can vote and I got the privilege of working outside the home (*****cough cough @ privilege*****) and I got to go to college. For me, this so-called "movement" royally screwed my own personal dreams. I did my best to adjust to it, live with it and make the best of it ~ but today, I'd give back every single penny I've ever earned in corp. America to be a stay at home mom/wife. These labels are where the true issues come into play. I'm no one's anything. I'm just me. Hopefully more good than bad, more kind than harsh and most importantly ~ a loyal/faithful friend, confidant, lover, and an overall well-rounded good person. Not much else matters. I certainly would NEVER profess that I'm "independent" and not needing other people in my life. I can live by my own means, I am not dependent on anyone else financially ~ but I definitely NEED others in my life for all kinds of reasons. My dentist first and foremost...(tee hee)  It's all just verbage in my opinion. Take away the labels and none of this matters in the grand scheme of things. JMO  | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 9:50:50 PM | "I don't wish to be any man's equal ~ I just want to be the woman. He can be the man."
OMG a female typed that - a cute one at that. 
Back on that other “are men intimidated” thread (the one I got banned for even posting on) I said.
“Why not just be a woman” (vs all the jabber about “are men intimidated”).
I for one don’t have anything but admiration for people that - get going when the going gets tuff but .......
I see so many argumentative ........ self proclaimed independent ...... umm people (don’t want to gender bash) that seems to be one of many characteristics (side effects) that come along with all the “I am independent - I don’t need a man” chants.
I personally am soooooo not interested in people that want to argue at the drop of a hat. Or people that twist what others say into something else to make it sound worse.
example:
“I don’t like to fight”
“Ok what you are saying is - I am a bit@h and you know you can’t win the argument”
I’ve seen guy’s statements twisted to something totally different from what he actually said on this thread. They quote him first then tell everyone what he ******REALLY********* said.
Some of the guys are trying to tell gals our side of all of this - then their words get twisted.
Too many people don’t listen (read) they are not listening - they are formulating a rebuttal - they simple do not listen to the other person’s side - they spend that time preparing their launch (argument).
Actually listening and not twisting the other's words - is Communications 101 - day one.
| |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 9:59:01 PM | | Many men will not ask me out because they preceive me to be independant....since I do not have a man in my life I HAVE to work,to pay my bills, and do what it takes to survive.I am not bad looking but men shy sway from me because of that.I know beccause I have had friends tell me so....Do I dress like a slob..dirve an old beat up junk car.....how do I attract men? | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 10:05:27 PM |
know beccause I have had friends tell me so....
Well, don't believe what your friends tell you about why men aren't lining up to date or marry you...... especially if the friends giving the opinions are women friends. | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 10:16:58 PM | | I do not think looks should turn off a man...or the fact that th ey see that I am not afraid to work and take care of myself should cause them to shy away...what do you suggest I do to attract them... | |
|
| Why men wont date independant women
Posted: 8/26/2007 10:21:53 PM | | basically the problem I have is with men on a local basis...I do not get much response from POF....however I do get responses froma Yahoo Personals that seems to have more info availale...Do I need to chane my profile | |
|
|
| Page 73 of 77
|
37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77 |
|
Home
login 
