| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 2:37:44 PM | If murderers were put in PROPER prisons, served actually LIFE inside instead of 10 years then people would think that justice had been served. If, instead of radios, tellies and playstations, hard labour was introduced such as smashing rocks then people would think that the punishment was halfway to fitting the crime.
Yes, maybe in an ideal world but Britain is far too libel for anything like that, blame European Human Rights for the way prisoners are allowed luxuries.
I once knew a Morrocan sailor, TV in a cell? He couldn't believe he was in prison, in his home country conditions are more like dungeons.
I still think that no one has the right to decide whether someone lives or dies.
Even that vile nonce Ian Huntley has a tariff, albeit a 40 year one. There are only a few prisoners serving 'natural life' sentences in Britain, but just a few paedophiles and serial killers. 22 people, for every other convicted murderer there is light at the end of the tunnel in the shape of eventual release. | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 2:38:34 PM |
Btw, you said on an earlier post that the pathetic sentencing policy in this country is not the subject, or words to that effect, I hope I have got the gist without misparaphrasing you. Surely in a considered debate on the death penalty, offering realistic alternatives (natural life) is a useful contribution?
I agree, the points are indeed on topic!
If life sentences meant "natural life" people would not feel justice wasn't being served and society put in danger again once the person is released. Its quite a jump from the current sentence policy to "death", but spending the rest of your life in prison is as close to death as you can get in my opinion. A killer should never be let loose on society again, but this still does not justify killing. Our "system" needs to be respected by those it serves, currently it has my respect in as much as it's not a hipocrite and doesn't try to justify the taking of a life under ANY circumstances, this sends the RIGHT Moral signals surely? | |
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wafta
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Joined: 6/14/2007
Msg: 178 | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 3:09:34 PM |
Our "system" needs to be respected by those it serves, currently it has my respect in as much as it's not a hipocrite and doesn't try to justify the taking of a life under ANY circumstances, this sends the RIGHT Moral signals surely
True. Those opinions in favour of the death penalty often site cost as a factor: Why should we pay to keep scum in jail...
Isnt it worth it to see them suffer for a change? Or is this just selfish pseudo- conservatism in the extreme? | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 3:17:56 PM | MSG 190
If killing is wrong, why kill as a punishment?
Because it makes everybody equal!
If you take someone's life, it is then only right that you should have yours taken from you.
I'm sure that as few as 100% of murder victims would have preferred the person killing them to die instead of them.
MSG 191
Those opinions in favour of the death penalty often site cost as a factor: Why should we pay to keep scum in jail...
Isnt it worth it to see them suffer for a change?
I would have no problem with keeping convicted killers in jail pending the endless appeals which usually occur, as I stated in an earlier post.
Or is this just selfish pseudo- conservatism in the extreme?
If only Issy were around to explain this statement!
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 3:21:25 PM |
My own morals tell me that killing is wrong. This is why I don't understand the people who want a death for a death. If killing is wrong, why kill as a punishment? Hypocracy indeed
I dont believe its hypocracy to believe that the death penalty should be law and serve as a reminder to those who may commit henious crimes that they may lose their own life as a punishment for their crimes.
So your morals say that killing is wrong and so do mine especially the killing of innocents, but i also believe that some people deserve to die for their actions and you and others dont.
Thats all it is a difference of opinion but i would love to see the day that there was a national vote on the death penalty and i believe the vote for the death penalty would win.
Does that make me a hyporcrit, i dont believe it does. | |
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wafta
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Joined: 6/14/2007
Msg: 182 | |
| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 3:21:33 PM |
Because it makes everybody equal!
If you take someone's life, it is then only right that you should have yours taken from you
No, it doesn't make everybody equal at all !
Someone takes a life, they have their life taken, so then someone has to take the life of the person who took that life don't they? And so it would go on and on and on.
If killing is SO bad, why is it ok to kill a killer ?!!
It isn't is it ?
Thats all it is a difference of opinion but i would love to see the day that there was a national vote on the death penalty and i believe the vote for the death penalty would win.
Yes, its a difference of opinion, everybody is entitled to their own. This issue is something I feel very strongly about for a number of reasons and putting my opinion across is very important to me personally.
You will never see the day that there is a national vote on the death penalty - it wasn't working, it was abolished and it will never face a vote in this country. Not that it would be voted back in if, by some miracle, that were ever to happen. Whatever poll statistics may say, I strongly believe that the majority of UK voters would vote against its re-instatement for the simple reason that it is morally wrong. | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 3:28:28 PM | MSG 194
No, it doesn't make everybody equal at all !
OK, perhaps I should have clarified:
If someone illegally takes the life of another, then they should have their life taken from them.
Someone takes a life, they have their life taken, so then someone has to take the life of the person who took that life don't they?
Do you mean that the executioner should also be executed?
If so, why? If execution is a legal process (which it would be if the death penalty were allowed under law), then the executioner would not be killing anyone illegally. | |
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wafta
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Joined: 6/14/2007
Msg: 184 | |
| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 3:34:45 PM |
Do you mean that the executioner should also be executed?
No, because I don't believe in murder, legal or otherwise.
However, for someone to want to kill people for a living, I'd have to think they had a slight problem themselves and would therefore be deserving of the same punishment that a murderer would receive. | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 3:39:31 PM |
If only Issy were around to explain this statement!
The question mark at the end denotes its purpose.
I'll explain the question even though i have no idea who yuo're talking about.
Those who support the death sentence (in my opinion) seem to have a superiority complex. "Their lives are worth nothing. MY money is too valuable to spend on them. I WOULD have the bollox to kill the barstud yadayadayada.
No morals involved. No leeway. No room for error.
Just kill them. | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 3:39:47 PM | MSG 196
Do you mean that the executioner should also be executed?
No, because I don't believe in murder, legal or otherwise.
Fair enough, so can you explain what you meant by your earlier statement?
Someone takes a life, they have their life taken, so then someone has to take the life of the person who took that life don't they? And so it would go on and on and on. | |
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wafta
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Joined: 6/14/2007
Msg: 187 | |
| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 3:44:36 PM |
Fair enough, so can you explain what you meant by your earlier statement?
Someone takes a life, they have their life taken, so then someone has to take the life of the person who took that life don't they? And so it would go on and on and on.
Of course I can, with pleasure.
I based that statement on your opinions in your previous message. Nowhere in my message did I say I believed that's how it should be. I was merely interpreting what you yourself had said.
Hope that clears it up for you. I re-iterate - I do not condone murder in any form, legal or otherwise. | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 3:54:58 PM | MSG 199
I based that statement on your opinions in your previous message. Nowhere in my message did I say I believed that's how it should be. I was merely interpreting what you yourself had said.
In which case, you misinterpreted my earlier statement. MSG 195 makes my position perfectly clear:
If someone illegally takes the life of another, then they should have their life taken from them.
MSG 197
Those who support the death sentence (in my opinion) seem to have a superiority complex. "Their lives are worth nothing. MY money is too valuable to spend on them. I WOULD have the bollox to kill the barstud yadayadayada.
I still can't see what's 'pseudo-conservative' about that sentiment.
BTW Anyone who has murdered has placed their own life in forfeit by choice. It is not the others who see themselves as being 'superior', it is the killer who has chosen to make himself 'inferior'.
Quite a difference, there. | |
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wafta
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Joined: 6/14/2007
Msg: 189 | |
| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 4:03:17 PM |
In which case, you misinterpreted my earlier statement. MSG 195 makes my position perfectly clear:
But my response to your comment was Msg194, so I was obviously not referring to your Msg 195 was I? Unless I've suddenly become psychic and hadn't noticed?!!!
Now, can we please get back on topic 
BTW Anyone who has murdered has placed their own life in forfeit by choice.
Not in the UK as the law stands they haven't. | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 4:12:45 PM |
Those who support the death sentence (in my opinion) seem to have a superiority complex. "Their lives are worth nothing. MY money is too valuable to spend on them. I WOULD have the bollox to kill the barstud yadayadayada.
I still can't see what's 'pseudo-conservative' about that sentiment.
You mean the opinion that institutionalised killing should be brought back? How can that be considered a sentiment? Leonardo de Caprio wont be starring in this one.
I would have thought a real "killer" was the one with the superiority complex. just like the pseudos: a person who thinks only of immediate retribution, at no cost, and a disregard for the immorality of the situation... But its funny how you understand the term now. Sentiment is a bit flowery dont you think considering how hard some of the pro death supporters claim to be? | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 4:18:05 PM | MSG 201
But my response to your comment was Msg194, so I was obviously not referring to your Msg 195 was I?
'No-one' has accused you of referring to MSG 195. I am fully aware that MSG 194 was referring to MSG 192.
MSG 192 contained the following:
If you take someone's life, it is then only right that you should have yours taken from you.
MSG 195 merely clarified that statement.
HTH
BTW Anyone who has murdered has placed their own life in forfeit by choice.
Not in the UK as the law stands they haven't.
Quite, but the comment was directed at a hypothetical situation should the death penalty have been re-introduced.
If it helps you:
"In countries where the death penalty is the punishment for murder, those who commit murder voluntarily place their lives in forfeit"
HTH | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 4:25:41 PM | MSG 202
You mean the opinion that institutionalised killing should be brought back?
Yes.
How can that be considered a sentiment?
Perhaps because of what the term 'sentiment' means?
Sentiment: - A view, opinion, or feeling.
You actually stated "the opinion that....." in your post. Shame you forgot what it meant a sentence later.
Then we get the classic 'contradictory comments':
Those who support the death sentence (in my opinion) seem to have a superiority complex.
I would have thought a real "killer" was the one with the superiority complex.
Now, which group has the 'superiority complex - the killers, or those who want the killers to be executed?
But its funny how you understand the term now.
I assure you that I don't understand what 'pseudo-conservative' means. | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 4:37:37 PM |
I still think that no one has the right to decide whether someone lives or dies.
I couldn’t agree more.
If someone commits murder they should get life imprisonment, with life meaning for the rest of their natural life.
If someone illegally takes the life of another, then they should have their life taken from them.
So if a child kills another child the killer should be executed. I could never agree to executing children. | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 4:41:07 PM |
Now, which group has the 'superiority complex - the killers, or those who want the killers to be executed?
I assure you that I don't understand what 'pseudo-conservative' means.
I'm beginning to believe you.
You think on judgement day theres gonna be a difference between the two? | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 4:46:35 PM | MSG 206
I'm beginning to believe you
So how many more times do I have to state that I don't know what it means before you explain it?
Or are you about to have an 'office' moment?
You think on judgement day theres gonna be a difference between the two?
I cannot say until you decide which of your two groups has the 'superiority complex', and why.
I've just twigged who you are..... | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 4:54:08 PM | You have society that says that to kill is wrong. Yet that society has capital punishment.
The message that sends out is that it is wrong to kill, except under certain circumstances.
The simpler message that it is simply wrong to kill is far more effective. There are far fewer grey areas. | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 4:56:37 PM |
I cannot say until you decide which of your two groups has the 'superiority complex', and why.
Both.
Pseudo conservatves aspire to something they are not with no foundation.
If you cant blow breath you shouldn't take it. | |
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 5:02:49 PM | MSG 209
Both.
Pseudo conservatves aspire to something they are not with no foundation.
If you cant blow breath you shouldn't take it.
So, we've reached a point where you asked me a direct question concerning a term that you've used which you can't explain.
I'm not sure how I can answer that question until the questioner is clear about what the question means. If the questioner doesn't know what the question means, how would they possibly understand the answer?
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| should we have the death penalty over here
Posted: 9/7/2007 5:26:12 PM |
I'm not sure how I can answer that question until the questioner is clear about what the question means. If the questioner doesn't know what the question means, how would they possibly understand the answer?
I'm not sure where you are..
There was no QUESTION in the last STATEMENT.
This is hard work...
What makes anyone think they have the right to take the life of another?
If drugs versus alcohol is a valid debate, killing versus killing is a non starter. | |
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