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 pujakama
Joined: 6/12/2006
Msg: 51
Your thoughts on the Church of ScientologyPage 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
One of my first jobs was working the espresso machine at the starbucks in downtown clearwater, FL. home and center of the scientology movement. they had this big school across the street and every 45 min they would come pouring out of their classes for their drinks. On breaks i got plenty of chances to talk to the folks, and i never encountered even one that condescended anyone elses faith, nor were they ever rude in any way at all. in fact all of them were pretty cool folks and even able to take honesty probing questions and doubt about their faith with good cheer.

for those of you who think its "freaky" remember these things... when christianity got its start Roman mothers would tell their children that if they werent good then the chrisitans would come and crucify them like they did to their own god. Christians in that day had to practice their faith in the catacombs under the city becuase no "decent" roman wanted anything to do with them. do you know what a catacomb is? its an underground GRAVEYARD.... so we have these people worshipping a dead jewish guy, living and praying underground with the dead bodies. and you think scientology is weird?

The christian faith was just one of many freaky little roman cults before a byzantine emporer decided christianity would be a better cult for his soliders to follow than the popular cult of mithras, wich he had some serious political problems with.

the ignorance of the walrus is staggering... im suprised this kat hasnt already killed himself with a cup of hot coffee or something. Im a practicing hindu of the vedic tradition... no hindus worship cows, theres plenty of reasons cows are sacred but they arent venerated as diety. The vedas cant be "disproven" because they arent so foolish as to take their faith literally... rather the stories of the vedas are parrable, legend meant to serve as both an educational tool and wise words to consider while pursuing enlightenment. and that dung about the king james bible not being disproven...




anyway, if they wanna believe the world was made by a giant monster made of spagetti... or anything else as freaky, its all good.. they are so far a fairly harmless cult at the worst.... at least they arent doing things like-

1- starting and maintaining the crusades for generations, murdering countless innocents in the name of their faith.

2- supporting the sin of the american slave trade, because slavery gave the africans a chance to learn of christ from their masters.

3- the murder of innocent women who were accused of witchcraft because they didnt submit to being raped by chruch officals.

the list can go on and on, but these three will support my next point just fine. All these things were done by christians acting in accordance with their own faith not just one or two christians but vast numbers over hundreds of years, but society forgave this faith, so surely we can all accept a pseudo-scienctific faith made by a man who wrote sci-fi novels... they are really friendly folks.

J.

PS- ancient greek philosophers, whom we base much of our thought on even today, used to think the moon was more important than the sun because the sun was shining during the day when you didnt need light but the moon would shine at night when you needed the light more. men like aristotle, socrate, and plato werent idiots and they were spouting the same stuff your calling mohammad an idiot for.
 YogiZ
Joined: 2/23/2006
Msg: 52
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/23/2006 2:34:53 PM
MoonWalrus: By refering to yourself as a "Judeo-Christian", you dishonor those who may share such a belief system. You've indicated that you're a Catholic in your profile, then come here to bash other people's faiths because of their lack of 'intelligence'. Let's examine some Catholic actions:

- The Catholics condemned Galileo for suggesting that the Earth revolved around the sun.

- Rather than excommunicating and/or removing priests who've been accused of molesting children, your church higher-ups often relocate the offenders instead, even threatening the victims' families with their high-priced lawyers (whom YOU and your fellow parishoners pay for, thereby putting blood on YOUR hands too. To quote you, "OUCH!"). Some parishes even suggest that parishoners not call the police should such offenses occur, but instead inform church members. Where else would that be acceptable?

- The Catholic church continues to preach against birth control in the world's poorest nations, ignoring the consequences for the sake of 'replenishing the flock'. In fact, they bash responsible politicians for trying to educate their citizens about birth control methods. (ie: The Philipines.)

Considering those few offenses alone, some could conclude that you and other Catholics are evil swine for supporting such a faith, but I don't. I say let's wait and see who's right in The End and leave them be.

I respect you as a human being MoonWalrus, but I pity you for your closed-minded attitudes. You're only building walls instead of bridges to one another. This isn't meant to be a flame. Just think about it...
 ozma
Joined: 6/23/2006
Msg: 53
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/23/2006 4:16:00 PM
"But isn't it interesting that the only Scientologists you hear about are high profile entertainers? And that none of them were brought up with it, but embraced it as adults? "

actually erica christianson and beck were both born in to scientology. BUT...


i am in no way defending it because i think it is a big fat scam.

my best friend in high school was involved with it. six months before we were due to graduate they offered her a "super" job "opportunity" ... but she had to take it then and drop out of school and move to california. any religion that encourages kids to drop out of school months away from graduation is not ok with me.

also many of the tenants of scientology are kept secret from followers until they have reached a certain level (read spent thousands of dollars). only then can you find out about xenu the warlord. unless of course you go online. rolling stone recently did a very interesting article about it. i will try to find the link.
 ozma
Joined: 6/23/2006
Msg: 54
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/23/2006 4:20:56 PM
here it is. interesting read. draw your own conclusions.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology
 preach65
Joined: 2/19/2006
Msg: 55
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/23/2006 4:41:45 PM
Hi Everyone,

Allow me to alianate...uh...I mean...introduce myself!-lol. It's my opinion that Ron had some degree of difficulty assimilating the amount of energy he was given through his revelations. It must be obvious to all of us that we are variations of pavlov's mut, right? We are pre-destined to be corrupted by our social environment, yes? I believe the underlying premise for the clearing process sound, however many encouragable minds the process filters through before landing on my doorstep or internet address...just be thankful they did not adopt a Jehova Witness approach to spreading the "good news"...

So what I'm saying is that the formula is good, healing is necessary, the human mind is crippled, and L. Ron Hubbard lost his way.

Preach.
 Subotai
Joined: 1/31/2006
Msg: 56
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/23/2006 5:00:16 PM
I want moon walrus back.....who else is going to hell?

Ghandi--oh yeah!..what a sinner! he definatley goes to hell
Buddha- not a chance he escapes Gods wrath..no way he gets reborn
Mother Teresa- clealy a witch..or a duck...either way...straight to hell
Martin Luther King Jr- major filth spewer...no stops...
Tom Cruise- he goes to "special hell"...for short good looking people
Muhammad- geez didnt he read the bible?...he goes to double hell.
Einstien- also to hell as science proves hes a pagan worshipper...

this is a funny thread..BRING BACK THE WALRUS!!!
 preach65
Joined: 2/19/2006
Msg: 57
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/23/2006 5:09:39 PM
See what I mean? Sub here needs a clearing! Anyone have any spare change to get my bro started?

Good schtick Sub...I'm laughing...
 pujakama
Joined: 6/12/2006
Msg: 58
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/23/2006 5:18:24 PM
another great laugh, thanks subotai.

Lets not forget that jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Koran (yes, jesus has a starring role in the muslims holy text. more lines than any other besides mohammud himself)

so if christs teachings are part of islam... gotta send that kat to hell, right? (what about all those people "following" him.. will they get lemming treatment?)

John the baptist is also mentioned as a holy man in the koran... between these moonlighting christian heroes and all those great humanitarians... hell is filling up fast.


J.


PS- Subotai... the name of Conans buddy, "i am Subotai, thief and archer" is that where you picked the name?
 Subotai
Joined: 1/31/2006
Msg: 59
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/23/2006 10:57:10 PM
actually its for the guy they named conan's buddy after..the mongol general who planned all of Genghis' moves...like his famous battle plan:

"kill, slaughter, slaughter, kill"

or his other favorite

"slaughter, catapult dead diseased cows, kill, eat a horse"

I came across him in a Chinese history class. Liked the name, though I love conan too!

what is good in life?

"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!"

*hic*

 MoonWalrus
Joined: 3/20/2006
Msg: 60
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/24/2006 8:55:54 AM
I am back. Mother Teresa was no sinner or criminal. Mother Teresa was the best social worker of the twentieth century. Pujakama, I applaud your comments about Scientology, since Scientology is not a strange religion when you compare it to Mormonism, Aztec paganism or African voodoo. Yogiz, Roman Catholicism is not a perfect denomination but its beliefs are good and the vast majority of priests are decent men. The Earth is indeed at the center of the Universe, since there are no other lifeforms in the Universe. Since the Universe is infinite and has no borders, how can astronomers say that the Earth is not at the center of the Universe? Galileo and the Vatican simply had a philosophical misunderstanding. Galileo was put under house arrest, as his punishment. The Roman legionaries, and Jewish Pharisees, treated Jesus Christ much worse. If only Jesus Christ could have received house arrest, instead of crucifixtion!?
 Kimberly2006
Joined: 5/10/2006
Msg: 61
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/24/2006 11:28:41 AM
I often wonder why some Christians who are non-Catholic condemn the entire Catholic church and even believe that Catholics are not Christians. I think the source of contention seems to be the view that Catholics worship Mary as opposed to honor her as Jesus' mother. Other concerns are that the church will not allow a child born out of wedlock who, obviously, did not commit a wrong merely by being born to be baptized in the church. Of course, of concern is the Catholic opposition to birth control. Do you condemn Catholics world wide who may or may not believe these things? It reminds me of people telling me how bad Americans are because of the Trail of Tears - while I agree forcing native Americans from their homes as if they were an infestation was wrong - I didn't do it - it wasn't me! And for good measure if that doesn't work - My grandmother was Cherokee Indian...

Most churchs have organized meetings where the ministers/people of faith meet to discuss changes in church philosophy.... over the years, most churchs evolve as our culture changes. For example, the role of women in church is slowly changing over time probably as a result of the changes in our society and it's view of women's role in the world. While our culture does affect our religion, one must look past the culture to the actual religious beliefs to make decision about a religion. One can reject the culture and still accept the religion.

Men/Women are responsible for wars, lynchings, burning women at the stake, rape, murder..... I chose to believe that people who commit acts such as these are not living a life of faith - that they do not act under God's direction whether they proclaim it or not. Still, the old testament has stories of God instructing His people to kill everyone to take the land. As a matter of belief, I still believe God is loving, kind and that when He tells us something, there is a reason for it.

Fortunately, God is a just God and it is He alone who will judge my heart and yours. While I don't trust my fellow man to judge me, I do trust God.


_____________________________________________________

As for scientology, I know little about this "religion" except what the media has put forth. I think that "psychiatry" can be a god for some people. Perhaps scientology is a bit of a reflex to the rubber stamping of anything a psychiatrist recommends - an opposing view that all psychiatric recommendations and medications are bad. As with any doctor, one must listen to the psychiatrist and decide for oneself whether the "medicine" works - helps. We've found out the hard way that some medicine as prescribed caused people to commit suicide. We've been told eggs are bad, eggs are neutral, eggs are good..... One must use one's own noggin!

Medicine made by man has side effects. No doctor needs to be rubber stamped. People must start listening to their own bodies and acting responsibly and NOT making gods out of people just because they have an M.D.

People laugh at herbs and herbal remedies but you really don't hear about a herbalist having a zillion dollars or about people having harsh side effects from herbs... yes people can die from herbs but the negative effects of herbs, which are natural and not made by imperfect man, are mild compared to man made medicine. When I was in Miami one thing that struck me as I took a tour which pointed out the multi-million dollar homes of famous men like Shack - was how many of those homes were owned unknown men who made money off drugs - good old prescription drugs.

Bottom line, prescription drugs have their place and are needed by some people on a regular basis. BUT, before you decide to rubber stamp what the medical field has to say, consider how much money they make off a person who has a chronic mental health problem taking their medicine for the rest of their life. I think that for some people, an herbal remedy (God made the earth - the herbs and gave us the herbs for our good) might be more helpful to the majority of people than strong psychiatric medication. Notice I said might - if a person feels depressed and tries an herbal remedy and it doesn't work, they shouldn't stop there -they should try a pschiatrist. But, where do you think most of these prescription medications come from? They are derived from plants and the medicinal properties are amplified....
 Subotai
Joined: 1/31/2006
Msg: 62
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/28/2006 9:16:45 AM
I certainly agree that the prevelance of powerul drugs to treat all forms of mental illness is highly mis-guided.

In the cases of those who are a direct danger to themselves and/or others that drugs is our only real temporary solution. But then they really just "drug" a person to the point of being incapable of much of anything.

However even most physchiatrists will agree that most of the common drugs used to treat depression and other "mental illness'" are highly in-effective. Most of these drugs in blind testing score no better than a placibo.

However the real "problem" with scientologies views on such things is the total condemnation of other forms of treatment. It bothers me to hear any person or religon condem the practices or beliefs of others. To me its a sign of the weakness of that religon or practictioner.

Blanket statements about the universe and our place in it are wholly mis-leading. People condeming others to hell etc is kinda sad.

At the heart of just about every religon is the belief of tolerance and compassion.

I find it hard to believe that any "god" would punish those who follow another "scripture". Any god I would believe would be beyond the petty human emotion of vengence or "other wordly punishment".

It would seem to me that is more of a human emotion not the "way" a God would react...shouldnt God be beyond such human frailties? Sure a god may punish the wicked who kill/maim/are generally evil...but would any god send a truly faithful and compassionate soul simply because theirs prayers were to a "god" of another name?

If god is everywhere and all things then god must be part of all religions and be the same god by any other name...? therefore why would he send anyone to hell?

Anyway I believe that the key to any religon is a matter of faith. If you are a person of faith (no matter who you call god) that all "gods" would be pleased and welcome you into his/her/its embrace.

If not then I guess im going to hell too! Well being canadian it will comfort me to know at least my afterlife will be warm...and that ill be able to say high to Muhammed and Buddha and we will laugh as to the follies of our beliefs.

The only "truth" I know in this universe is that we all will die.

Everything else is really a big cosmic crap shoot....
 Lord Dave
Joined: 11/25/2005
Msg: 63
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/29/2006 5:44:04 PM
I found an article: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story...ide_scientology

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but it seriously made me angry. Like pure hatred angry. If what is in there is true, then it seems to be worse then some of our harshest religions of the past. Excommunication with all family and friends, super strict rules, forced "audits", 24 hour surveliance of "problem people", no leasure time, hard labor for 12 year olds, and who knows what else. It wasn't right in the 12th century and it's not right now.
 MMMBaby!
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 64
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/29/2006 7:51:26 PM
My thoughts are, and have been since I read "Dianetics" is that L. Ron Hubbard was a first-class wing-nut and so are those who follow him. Cuckoo!!!!

Yeah, it figures that Tom Cruise is into that sh*t, because he's as nutty as a fruit cake too.
 Janice T.
Joined: 6/4/2006
Msg: 65
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/30/2006 9:40:50 AM
Most people that belong to Scientology, have more money than brains. A sucker is born every minute...
 Lord Dave
Joined: 11/25/2005
Msg: 66
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/30/2006 11:59:23 AM
Yes but what about the children? Most of them second generation who are exposed to scientology since birth? What about those who want out? If this article is correct, anyone who leaves the church is excommunicated. Can you imagine that? Being say... 15 years old and being told "If you leave this faith, you can't talk to your parents again"? Or perhaps a father who wants out but his daugter doesn't?
That's my biggest concern. I don't care what consenting adults do with themselves, but when they hurt the children, I care.
 vivid
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 67
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/30/2006 10:00:06 PM
I've studied Scientology. One thing I've learned after is that many of the
self-improvement books are essentially modelled after Scientology.

After I've studied it carefully, I found the premise of it very sound and logical. I
put it to use and it works to a degree; I have enormous amount of confidence because
I can read people like a book now...especially those that 'act out' or are behaving
strangely.
 MMMBaby!
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 68
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/1/2006 1:27:01 AM
I can read people like a book now...especially those that 'act out' or are behaving
strangely


Hmm... Be confident that you can! L. Ron Hubbard said so!!

Don't worry about strange people, they are all around you...
 vivid
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 69
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/1/2006 1:37:42 AM
^^^ Show me a psychologist that has the talent to cure a mental illness, I'll show
you a psychologist who's been stealing ideas from the Scientologists.

Psychologists spend millions of dollars to defend their turf on PR firms that
attack this movement. They carpet bomb the web with half-truths to stear
the sheep away.

L Ron Hubbard was a fantasy writer, but this was his most brilliant writing yet.

Before you attack it, study it. It's a scientific paper that no self-respecting psychologist
would dismiss.

The best way to attack scientology is to draw attention to the 'alien' disinformation
scientologists throw out...the alien stories - they're just there to qualify this
movement as a church...nothing more. The gov'ts bought it hook, line and sinker.
 MoonWalrus
Joined: 3/20/2006
Msg: 70
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/1/2006 6:31:02 AM
vivid, you made some good comments. Motivational speakers, such as Tony Robbins, are full of bogus information. Psychologists are full of bogus information too. They want to put our children on pills, like Ritalin and Prozac, for attention deficit disorder, hyperactivity and other things. Scientology had to establish itself as a "church" in order to be tax-exempt, just like other churches. Scientology might have its down side but so do Islam and Hinduism. Hinduism upholds their dubious caste system and untouchables group. There is nothing sacred about cows, everybody. If you criticize Scientology, make sure you criticize other religions too, Lord Dave. Freud and his bogus psychologists have never cured anybody of mental illness.
 Mr. Ivan
Joined: 3/13/2006
Msg: 71
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/1/2006 6:58:40 AM
I researched Scientology when I was in college (on my own time). Scientology made me re-think what RELIGION really is all about. If Scientology is a scam, then so are all other religions. The creation and evolution of Scientology is very similar to every religion that has existed. The fanaticism for Hubbard and superstitious belief of its cures is very similar to the "other" religion's belief in the Messiah and his miracles.
 Lord Dave
Joined: 11/25/2005
Msg: 72
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/1/2006 9:42:51 AM
I critisize all relious organizations. Well... most of them anyway. Alot of them do things that aren't right either, but half of those are in other parts of the world. For example: Muslims living in america won't stone their wives for not wearing appropriate dress because it's against the law. I can't change the laws of another country nor is it mine to change, but that doesn't mean I like it.

Also, to say psychologists never cured anyone is a very bold statement. I hope you can back that up with data because psychology has been around for over 100 years. A track record of 0 would be hard to miss.

Now, I will admit that they do use drugs more then I'd like to. Granted half of the problem are chemical imbalances. However having dated a woman with Obsessive Compulive Disorder (and bad too) for close to three years, I can tell you that sometimes those drugs are the only hope they have. Otherwise they'd be dead or gone violent. Usually dead. And it's always, always combined with sessions to try and make progress. But like I said, sometimes you just can't.

Now maybe you can help answer a question for me: If someone wishes to leave the church of scientology are they excommunicated and those in the church are forbidden to speak to them? Or is that only if the person who left says anything negative about the church?
Also, could you point out any parts of the article posted above that are false.
 jesuscigarettes
Joined: 11/20/2005
Msg: 73
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/1/2006 10:04:44 AM
Scientologists are money-grubbing evil fcuks who deserve to rot in the lowest depths of ... their alien planet, or whatever. Here are two really good sites (animated, with audio, very well done) that summarize exactly why Scientology is the worst thing ever.

http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/

http://theunfunnysequel.ytmnd.com/

And here's a really funny excerpt from a Scientology book, read out loud:

http://smartscientology.ytmnd.com/
 MoonWalrus
Joined: 3/20/2006
Msg: 74
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/1/2006 10:06:07 AM
Lord Dave, you are alright but I did not appreciate being criticised, by everybody in here, for simply stating facts. It upset me and for good reason. Amish, Puritans and other strange Christian denominations have punished people for leaving their religions too. Fact # 1: Sigmund Freud never cured anybody of any mental illness. Yet many people will consider Freud to be a genius for doing absolutely nothing. His patients should have sued him for mal-practice. I left the Scientology Church and I am doing just fine, Lord Dave. Many ex-Scientologists are living their lives just fine too. Scientologists are not infamous for committing murders like David Koresh or Muslims or the so-called Christian Puritans of the 1600s (Salem witches). If it was left up to psychologists, 95 percent of people would have a mental illness and we would all be on pills. Too many children nowadays are drugged up because the psychologists have to substantiate their profession. Thank God lobotamies, and electric shock, have been removed from most psychologists prescriptions. No, Hubbard never performed brain removals, unlike mainstream psychiatry (watch the movie One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest)! Lets all be friends now.
 vivid
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 75
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/1/2006 10:08:04 AM
http://masspsy.com/leading/0606_ne_dsm.html

Also, here's a link showing how psychologist have strong financial ties to
drug companies. They are making serious coin keeping you ill or just
diagnosing you as being sick in the head.

So, Jesuscigarettes, did you want to turn this into a pissing contest. The
only thing that may be accomplished is that we prove that both
Scientologists and Psychologists are greedy mother-f'krs.

PS: instead of attacking Scientologists with glib statements, please
point out one inaccuracy that is written in the book
of Dyanetics that has the pro-drug company movement up in arms?

....Only point to ONE.
Show ALL Forums  > Religion  > Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology