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 whitegold765
Joined: 12/26/2007
Msg: 101
Your thoughts on the Church of ScientologyPage 5 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
People keep saying "it works" and "it's powerful" but as best I can see it's complete nonsense.

I mean... the whole "thetans" thing makes no sense on its own, and how can you not ask or want to know what engrams are? The science behind it is so shonky until "explained" by the full Xenu story.

I have actually been to a scientology office once. They were doing IQ and personality tests. They're actually pretty good at that stuff. Their tests revealed that I'm highly intelligent, and with a great deal of unfulfilled potential.

lol, I could have told them that.
 Opusvoid
Joined: 5/10/2008
Msg: 102
view profile
History
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 5/26/2008 2:09:11 PM
Lots of negativity about Scientology. I wonder why?

I don't see a problem with it. It seems rather interesting really, but I guess the old saying is true "People fear and hate what they don't understand". I personally view every religion or spiritual belief system as a cult. Pretty much ever group you can join is a cult by definition of what "Cult" is in the dictionary.

Well, I guess no matter what it is...someone will hate it. I think most people have just come to their own illogical conclusions on subjects like this one. To many preconceived ideas for my liking.
 Larissan04
Joined: 4/28/2004
Msg: 103
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 5/26/2008 8:02:13 PM
i have actually taken some courses there, and really liked them.

also, i have known many many scientologists and they were really great people. when i lived in los angeles there were plenty of scientologists around. there is a large community there, so scientologists dont seem so much the "other" there...

on an intellectual level, i can say that i found thier ethical system very interesting. it picks up where mills left off, and whereas budhism says that all life is about suffering, scientology says that all living things are trying to survive, adn that this is a basic principle of the faith etc.

i am not one to really join, or pledge allegiance to anything, but i have no issues with scientology adn found the courses that i took to be most interesting, helpful, and informative...controversial or not...

lar
 Larissan04
Joined: 4/28/2004
Msg: 104
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 5/26/2008 8:06:07 PM
romegaguy36~

i read dianetics and the book didn't say anything like that what so ever.

i actually found it to be a rather meaty intellectually challenging book. i liked it very much and felt that it was and still is an important book...

l ron was also an engineer, and it is quite apparent from the very precise logical development of his ideas. it's not a feel-good book at all... you make it sound like dr phil or something...lol!

lar
 Enigma252
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 105
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/2/2008 9:57:04 PM

Rockondon,

I'm glad you have cleared this up for me. I also read somewhere that Hubbard had a background with Crowley and the OTO and was part of WWII Naval Intelligence gathering, which would most likely mean that he was an officer trained in brainwashing techniques and interrogation.

I worked with a couple of Scientology love-slaves years ago. 15 years ago they were paid $100 a week for their labor and had to hustle money from elsewhere to pay their bills. Of course, these parties where women. Suckers.

It all such bullshit--really. Think for yourselves for god sake. Ditto for other "brain washing religions"--and you know WHO YOU ALL ARE.

Money, power & real estate. That deal was established a long time ago.

A note to the head Scientologist: EAT ME!!!

Why is it the majority of the human race is just part of the HERD SYNDROME ANYWAY??????
 ~inflateablesoulmate~
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 106
view profile
History
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/3/2008 1:01:59 AM
im pretty sure that the 'church of anything' requires that you have no thoughts of your own.
SCAM.
next topic.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 107
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/3/2008 1:26:39 AM

Rockondon,

I'm glad you have cleared this up for me. I also read somewhere that Hubbard had a background with Crowley and the OTO and was part of WWII Naval Intelligence gathering, which would most likely mean that he was an officer trained in brainwashing techniques and interrogation.

I worked with a couple of Scientology love-slaves years ago. 15 years ago they were paid $100 a week for their labor and had to hustle money from elsewhere to pay their bills. Of course, these parties where women. Suckers.

It all such bullshit--really. Think for yourselves for god sake. Ditto for other "brain washing religions"--and you know WHO YOU ALL ARE.

Money, power & real estate. That deal was established a long time ago.

A note to the head Scientologist: EAT ME!!!

Why is it the majority of the human race is just part of the HERD SYNDROME ANYWAY??????


If you go to www.xenu.net you can read the "unofficial" biography of L. Ron Hubbard. See the link for the "Bare-Faced Messiah." It is more than a bit of an embarrassment to the modern "church" of $cientology because it basically shows their "official" biography to be a thin tissue of lies.

His official Navy bio is nothing like what they portray on the $cientology web site. In fact such quotes as "a danger to himself, his ship and his crew" feature in his superior officer's reports about him. He was never in Naval Intelligence in any way.

He had no official association with Crowley or the OTO of any kind. He was a friend of sorts to Jack Parsons who was a correspondance student of sorts with Crowley and an American follower of the OTO's teachings. Much can be read of Parsons life and legend in a variety of books. The bottom line on Hubbard's relationship to Parsons is that he knew him and may have obtained a few occult techniques from him he primarily obtained Parson's money and his fiance and then left Parsons high and dry.

The majority of the teachings of this religion are cobbled together from 50's pop psychology and "feel good books", a bit of neurolinguistic programming, a bit of western and eastern occultism ULTRA-light (minus most of the insight, hard work and real development and important symbolic restructuring), a tad of self-hypnosis, and a whole lot of pseudo-scientific bullcrap interlaced with Hubbard's C-grade sci-fi as the root of the "church's" mythology. The modern "church" tends to lean away from the mythos as it tends to attract too much negative press...especially the huge five-figure sum that has to be paid to learn this "ultimate secret of reality" that is such obvious poppycock it makes Zechariah Sitchin and David Icke look like hard-science.

Of course don't take my word for it, this is based on my opinion and personal research into this ...ahem...cult. Feel free to look it up yourself. Start with the xenu.net site however. $cientology has tried everything under the sun short of physical assassination (so far) including character assassination and harassment of the site owner to have it removed from the net...they call it "fair game" after Hubbard's own personal philosophy of eliminating any critic. It is a philosophy they practice on any critic to this day but disavow any existence of.

Hah.

As to $cientology "ethics" the wiki stub has a handy breakdown:



According to the Church of Scientology, "Ethics may be defined as the actions an individual takes on himself to ensure his continued survival across the dynamics. It is a personal thing. When one is ethical, it is something he does himself by his own choice." [1]

According to founder L. Ron Hubbard's teachings, Scientology ethics is predicated on the idea that there are degrees of ethical conduct. [2]

[edit] Good and Evil
The Church's official position declares: "The logic of Scientology ethics is inarguable and based upon two key concepts: good and evil", and goes on to state that "nothing is completely good, and to build anew often requires a degree of destruction" and "to appreciate what Scientology ethics is all about, it must be understood that good can be considered to be a constructive survival action". [3]


[edit] Statistics
In order to make these ethical decisions that affect others around them, Scientologists are expected to use statistical measurement to assess the "measurement of survival potential". Their official website states "with an understanding of how to compile, graph and compare statistics, the Scientologist is amply equipped to determine exactly what condition an activity is in, and thus exactly what steps he must take in order to better that condition." [4]

Hubbard stated that all Scientology organizations need to keep their statistics of production up, and that Ethics action must be brought against the staff member responsible for the particular statistic should it be continually down.

"Example: a typist gets out 500 letters in one week. That's a statistic. If the next week the typist gets out 600 letters that's an UP statistic. If the typist gets out 300 letters that's a DOWN statistic.... the purpose is to keep production (statistics) up." - L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 1 Sep 1965

According to The Scientology Handbook, the Scientology method of statistics can, and should, be applied to individuals, groups, organizations, and any production activities inside and outside Scientology. Hubbard prescribes a very specific method of plotting statistics on graphs, and then for analysis of these graphs in terms of five levels of "Ethics Conditions". These conditions are:

Non-existence condition: line on graph steeply or vertically down.
Danger condition: line on graph diagonally down.
Emergency condition: line on graph remains level, or slightly down.
Normal condition: line on graph slightly up.
Affluence condition: line on graph steeply up. [5]

[edit] Ethics protection
In 1965, Hubbard issued the policy letter HCOPL 1 Sep 1965 (reissued 5 Oct 1985) entitled "Ethics Protection". In it, he states that "Ethics actions are often used to handle down individual statistics. A person who is not doing his job becomes an Ethics target" and goes on to detail how a Scientologist can protect himself from Ethics punishment by being more productive and keeping statistics up:

"In short, a staff member can get away with murder so long as his statistic is up and can't sneeze without a chop if it's down."

If the staff member's production is sufficiently high (as evidenced by an up statistic), the Scientologist gains an immunity to the Ethics process, even if they have openly committed violations:

"When people do start reporting a staff member with a high statistic, what you investigate is the person who turned in the report. In an ancient army a particularly brave deed was recognized by an award of the title of Kha-Khan. It was not a rank. The person remained what he was, BUT he was entitled to be forgiven the death penalty ten times in case in the future he did anything wrong. That was a Kha-Khan. That's what producing, high-statistic staff members are - Kha-Khans. They can get away with murder without a blink from Ethics.... And Ethics must recognize a Kha-Khan when it sees one - and tear up the bad report chits on the person with a yawn." [6]


[edit] Punishment
Main article: Scientology Justice
If statistics are not brought up to a sufficient level of production, one can be declared a PTS (Potential Trouble Source), a Suppressive Person, and ultimately disconnected[citation needed]. Researcher Jon Atack has expressed concern that, in the wrong hands, Scientology ethics can be wielded arbitrarily and absurdly, such as in the 1960s when British Saint Hill Scientologists declared a local pie shop "Suppressive" for not carrying apple pie in sufficient quantities to their liking. [7]


[edit] Critical analysis
Professor Stephen A. Kent quotes Hubbard as pronouncing that "the purpose of ethics is to remove counter intentions from the environment. And having accomplished that the purpose becomes to remove other intentionedness from the environment" and "[a]ll ethics is for in actual fact is simply that additional tool necessary to make it possible to get [Scientology] technology in. That's the whole purpose of ethics; to get technology in".

What this translates to, says Kent, is "a peculiar brand of morality that uniquely benefitted [the Church of Scientology] ... In plain English, the purpose of Scientology ethics is to eliminate opponents, then eliminate people's interests in things other than Scientology. In this 'ethical' environment, Scientology would be able to impose its courses, philosophy, and 'justice system' — its so-called technology — onto society."[8]


[edit] Notes
^ Scientology: Bettering Life with Scientology Ethics
^ Scientology: Bettering Life with Scientology Ethics
^ Scientology: Bettering Life with Scientology Ethics
^ Scientology: Bettering Life with Scientology Ethics
^ Hubbard, The Scientology Handbook, 1994 hardcover edition, pg.367
^ Hubbard Communications Office, HCOPL 1 Sep 1965, "Ethics Protection".
^ Atack, Jon, "A Piece of Blue Sky", Chapter 2.
^ Stephen A. Kent (September 2003). "Scientology and the European Human Rights Debate: A Reply to Leisa Goodman, J. Gordon Melton, and the European Rehabilitation Project Force Study". Marburg Journal of Religion 8 (1). Retrieved on 2006-05-21.


Childishly simplistic at the best and at the worst...as the one critic described "arbitrary and absurd." the kind of ethics that a chronic con-artist and self-absorbed man such as Hubbard would conceive of. Given this man's personal history, I find it hard to believe he would have the best interests of his fellow man at heart.

And, to wit, if the founder of a faith is to have some impact on his message and to be held account for his message in any degree, I would say that no matter how beneficial some might imagine $cientology to be (though I can't imagine why) I am afraid Hubbard falls somewhat short of the mark of any founder I can think of off hand...even the most human and fallible such as Crowley is more admirable in the end, having fallen the furthest but having a message that in the end exalts and challenges one to personal responsibility of an ultimate nature in the Book of The Law, something free to study...well from a financial point of view.
 Greg8002
Joined: 3/11/2008
Msg: 108
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/3/2008 5:42:23 AM
I think the church exhibits many features of established religions, and also what sociologists of religion call 'New Religious Movements.' As to whether it seriously harms people, there does seem to be some evidence of questionable practices, but these are strikingly similar to the methods of social and behavioural control used in mainstream or other religions.
 NewWayHome
Joined: 9/20/2006
Msg: 109
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/15/2008 4:42:12 PM
My thoughts? If you say something positive you're going to wind up on an ASHO mailing list; guaranteed. If you say something negative you're going to wind up 'fair game' and your email flooded with junk for your remaining existence on this earth.

So IMHO it would probably be best if we all kept our thoughts on this... corporation... to ourselves.

In case there's any Guardians reading this, I'm already a free floater, don't worry about me I'm not your enemy.
 Jonny2Hands
Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 110
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/15/2008 10:47:54 PM
Scientology is not a religion. It follows most of the criteria of a cult. They encourage members to recruit their friends and family, and encourage them to cut ties with non-members. They apply brainwashing techniques. Unlike most religions, they're not up front with all the beliefs but rather gradually reveal new beliefs in stages to lure you in deeper. They demand outrageous and unreasonable financial investments for their product and as the following former members attest to, never deliver.

Almost everything you need to know about it you can learn from its former members who have escaped and have since made the "chruch's" abuses public.

TORY CHRISTMAN - Member of $cientology for 30 years. Escaped in 2000. She ranked OT Level VII. Was John Travolta's auditor. Worked for their Office of Special Affairs to discredit their critics.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ToryMagoo44

Watch the series of videos that begin with this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV3yYS4QNMM

MARK BUNKER - former member and leading critic of the church
http://www.youtube.com/user/xenutv1

JASON BEGHE - Actor Jason Beghe is the first celebrity Scientologist to sit down and publicly talk about his experiences after leaving the group.
Watch the video series that begins with this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrrdCS26uzA

JENNA MISCAVIGE HILL - Niece of $cientology's leader David Miscavige has joined other kids who were born into the cult and escaped to create this informative website that describes their experiences as virtual child slaves in the cult's Sea Organization: http://www.exscientologykids.com/

Expose from Radar Magazine on the cult:
http://www.radaronline.com/from-the-magazine/2008/03/scientology_anonymous_protests_tom_cruise_01.php

Other important resources:
www.rickross.com (Rick Ross is perhaps the leading cult de-programmer in the U.S. though this site seems to be currently not working. Check back soon.)
http://www.villagevoice.com/2008-06-24/news/Scientologys-Crushing-Defeat/
http://www.xenu.net/
http://lisatrust.bogie.nl/
http://www.scientology-lies.com/whatswrong.html
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/

Do NOT visit the Cult Awareness Network's page. $cientology actually bought them out and have been using it as their own propaganda source.
 rebel777
Joined: 3/22/2007
Msg: 111
view profile
History
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/15/2008 11:51:25 PM
my thoughts....sounds like a very bad dumbass movie...
 Jonny2Hands
Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 112
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/25/2008 10:41:40 PM
Yeah, it was called Battlefield Earth. And it was indeed a very bad dumbass movie.
 Justinfh
Joined: 12/13/2007
Msg: 113
view profile
History
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/30/2008 5:56:05 PM
The Church of Scientology is a cult created to make money. On the other hand, people can say the exact same thing about any other church and/or religion.
 grzzzlybear
Joined: 12/7/2007
Msg: 114
view profile
History
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 1/3/2009 1:58:10 PM
Cult? I don't know for sure, but not in my experience. I don't believe it's a religion either though. It's more of a group of people who are on a quest for inner truth, similar to the traditions of Buddhism or Gnoticism. The ultimate goal is realization of who we are in the universe.

The Church of S. does'nt ask you to believe anything. If something resonates and passes your personal truth detector, well and good. If it does'nt, okay! Might not be for you. What they do ask as a group, is that you regard what they have to offer with an open mind, and an an unclosed heart. It's kind of trendy to knock Scientology, and so, some will never get the opportunity to view the work of Hubbard with an open mind. Oh well. Maybe next life time.
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 115
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 1/3/2009 8:12:10 PM
I hope it is exposed for what it is which is simply dreadful and very dangerous. If we to do what the advocate and take all the schizophrenics of their medication, the world would become a very dangerous place.

Sadly, John Travoltas and Kelly Prestons son died yesterday. I cannot help but wonder if Scientology played a role in his death.
 VVendy
Joined: 6/7/2008
Msg: 116
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 1/4/2009 3:26:30 PM
I think it is Sci Fi mockup of the religons of the world. Think Star trek:deep space nine.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 117
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 1/7/2009 10:46:05 AM


Scientology is not a religion. It follows most of the criteria of a cult. They encourage members to recruit their friends and family, and encourage them to cut ties with non-members. They apply brainwashing techniques. Unlike most religions, they're not up front with all the beliefs but rather gradually reveal new beliefs in stages to lure you in deeper. They demand outrageous and unreasonable financial investments for their product and as the following former members attest to, never deliver.


This sounds like every other religion out there.
 Formpoetsuite37
Joined: 10/13/2008
Msg: 118
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 2/2/2009 10:29:08 PM
My thoughts on scientology are clear:
I know very little, but have met one person who practices its teachings. Met in a bar, she has great energy, and we smiled a lot more than others did. Had great discussions, neither of us drank, she is too old for me to plan romance, but her beliefs have me curious.
Much of what I think are clouded by what has been heard and seen in media. However, my thoughts on all religions, are that some people take them on like addictions, and exclude others views and even their own intuitions.
Don't fear the religions, fear those who use it like a weapon.
 peroconcoco
Joined: 2/7/2009
Msg: 119
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 2/22/2009 7:34:38 PM
Where in the Quran does it say that Muhammad raped a 9 year old? I'd like to know. Where did he brag about it? Where in there did he say that the moon has its own light source?
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 120
view profile
History
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 2/24/2009 12:17:43 PM
South Park has done a few shows on it and they show it for what it is a joke, but it is no more a joke then every religon out there, because there is no god(s).
 Single_in_ H_town
Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 121
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/27/2009 11:37:26 PM
disagree with about half of what you said

south park is a bunch of nonsense

honestly, alot of good people are a part of that group and they do good things, but sadly just as many other groups you have bad people too

the current leader of this church, david miscavage is BAD.

the stuff works, but to charge people that much is insane, and I will give ya that, also the way they FAILED to handle some people, pisses me off

nothing that speaks truth, and seeks to better people is a joke, but you wont ever agree and thats fine, I do however you are a good person who does great things for your follow men and women.
 Single_in_ H_town
Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 122
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 6/27/2009 11:40:50 PM
the book is great though, read it sometime.
 lill_miss_me
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 123
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 11/29/2009 1:39:04 PM

Am I the only person on this site who has read and getrs Dianetics?? Hard to believe.


No, your not the only one grzzzlybear, Ive used it and it does work.

For those that have condemned it above, why not actually find out the answers for your self first. If you wanted to find out about Islam, you'd read the Koran, or for Christianity, you'd read the bible, right? Same goes for Scientology.

www.Scientology.org
 MissRuby67
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 124
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 1/19/2010 8:11:16 PM
DX
Thanks for the post...
One thing I would like to add is the very real practice of the "fair game law". This organization does in fact ruin lives. My marriage fell victim and I am now in the battle of my life to prevent my children going down the same path as their father.
Anyone with questions should checkout www.fairgamed.org well worth the read.
Thanks again.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 125
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 1/19/2010 8:40:40 PM
Thanks for posting this missruby67, it takes courage in the face of the self-imposed ignorance of others who, in light of the available information choose to only see this dangerous criminal cult as just another benign but beknighted religion or spiritual path.

http://www.xenu.net/

Operation Clambake - Undressing the Church of $cientology since 1996 (despite their many failed attempts including every fair game trick in the book to shut down the site and do all but outright murder the site owner...but character assassination was welll and good)

Comes complete with the Carl Sagan Baloney Detector...my fave :)
http://www.xenu.net/archive/baloney_detection.html
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