| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/22/2008 1:35:06 PM | oldsoul
In other words, it's not the "faith" that people have for their personal god or gods that bothers me...that's between them and their god(s). But their right to "believe" in anything they want to believe in ends where mine begins and/or when they start to push those beliefs on others in order to control, manipulate, shame or guilt them into believing the same as they do. That's where I draw the line and I'll "push" back.
The assumption would seem to be that all of us who believe in God use shame and guilt as a means to get others to believe what we believe. This is a common theme in these forums and the accusation is so far from the truth that it boggles my mind. I think that the issue is that folks want to put christianity into a box that is of their own understanding. Repentence to me was a result of trusting in the love of my creator and training myself to look both ways before I cross the street and to I feel ashamed or guilty if I don't because of what might have happened to both myself and some poor driver or a car who do to no fault of their own hurt me.
In my opinion...
Life is full of variables that need to be learned and properly responded to because of the results of wrong actions and motivations. Christians who are telling folks they are going to hell make me shiver but I can't say such are always in the wrong. Some of them may actually be giving a warning that God gave them. I for one do not believe that beliefs or lack of beliefs will put a person in hell... that would be rediculus given the amount of strait out stupid, biased, racist and elitist preaching I've encountered in my life.
Myself, I'm what some call a "de facto' atheist, which means that I'm not completely discounting the very remote possibility of the existence of a deity or deities, although it feels highly improbable to me...BUT I am a strong anti-theist, which means that it's this whole religion business I object to.
I have had the pleasure of having someone read my story of the little old lady at the soup kitchen in these forums and write me to tell me that they do not feel judged by me... that my presentation of my beliefs inspired them to well... you know. Anywho... for me who was not raised in churh being a man who believes in Jesus has never been easy. I get angry as hell at those who try to put a guilt trip on people... but there have been times when I've seen hardend criminals turn their lives around listening to what I thought was nothing more than the preaching of a modern day pharisee. I get mad about AA and call it a religion but I know in my heart that God uses AA. I get mad at folks ... I get mad at myself... I get mad at God... but I find grace and forgiveness in all three. Cause like you say I'm not going anywhere... and if the scientist I heard once say that you cannot annialate the atoms that make up statueman and oldsoul then we will be in this universe as long as there is a universe. So I AM and YOU ARE and our atoms will run into eachother eventually. I think however the OP is valid in saying that atheist do try to push their atheism upon christians... | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/22/2008 1:56:01 PM |
The assumption would seem to be that all of us who believe in God use shame and guilt as a means to get others to believe what we believe. This is a common theme in these forums and the accusation is so far from the truth that it boggles my mind.
This is an interesting statement!
isn't it the christian belief that says: we have all sinned and come short of the glory of god? is it not the christian belief that says we are born in sin?
is it not the chirstian belief says that we are condemned but only through gods grace are we saved?
this isn't shame based? guilt based? Where is the empowerment in the message? the only empowerment is one of gods empowerment and we are merely sinning monkey's that are doomed without jesus the fella that came to fix god's little mistake of giving us free will but condemning us to eternal damnation, oops..
But at least it all makes sense now... | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/22/2008 1:58:37 PM |
isn't it the christian belief that says: we have all sinned and come short of the glory of god? is it not the christian belief that says we are born in sin?
is it not the chirstian belief says that we are condemned but only through gods grace are we saved?
Precisely.
It's a fallacy to say that all Christians as individuals are sadistic and solipsistic, but the texts themselves and the religion itself is. Just because you choose not to preach via fear doesn't mean the whole thing isn't based off of it. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/22/2008 2:03:38 PM | "Pushing" only happens by and to people who are insecure in their belief system.. those who are secure in their beliefs feel no such desire to push or to accept the pushing of others... JMO :)
if the scientist I heard once say that you cannot annialate the atoms that make up statueman and oldsoul then we will be in this universe as long as there is a universe. So I AM and YOU ARE and our atoms will run into eachother eventually. OMG Statueman that is one of the most beautiful things I have had the pleasure of reading from you!!!! Thanks for sharing your light today  | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/22/2008 2:10:00 PM |
"Pushing" only happens by and to people who are insecure in their belief system.. those who are secure in their beliefs feel no such desire to push or to accept the pushing of others...
Well aspects of that may be true, but most religions cannot be happy until I believe the message as well.
Let's not forget how religious institutions behaved when they held power. | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 57 | |
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kotkoj
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Joined: 5/10/2005
Msg: 58 | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/22/2008 2:54:13 PM |
For the same reason religious people try to pass there religion on to us.
Oh I wouldn't say that. Sure, there are undoubtedly arsehole atheists who make it their lifes duty to be as in your face as they possibly can be. But I assume that most atheists only really become heated when they are told that they're immoral or that findinguh JAYSUSUH is the only way to live. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/22/2008 3:48:44 PM | I think for some, it gives them an identity and purpose. " Your bad,I'm good" etc.
I agree with your position. If we could stop telling people how they're going to hell if they don't believe like us, and just love them, that would go a long way.
I'm by no means perfect at this ...I still judge. It seems the older I get and the more faith grows, I'm not so pushy. If someone is an atheist...great. Believer...ok....agnostic....fine. When you find that treasure inside, you want others to have it.But you know it's something that has to be experienced....Like plantains. I could say "You must eat plantains! They are delicous!" Another will say " I hate plantains!" But until you eat one, and taste for yourself. You will never really know. I'm no longer trying to shove it down their throats. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/23/2008 10:37:25 AM | Its a very good question. Most people seem to be missing the point you are trying to make.
My feeling about this is that religion has a special status as a topic. No doubt because of the power it has to control peoples lives. Indeed it still has political power in a large part of the world.
Religion helped get George Bush elected. Religion helps Al Quaeda kill people. Religion is dangerous. Thats why people argue over it. Your liking of coffee and carrot cake isnt going to change the world and any big way.
The other factor is that religion is based on idea. Its a state of mind, and if you change someone's mind you will change who they are. People will argue with anyone they perceive is trying to change their mind. You can't really argue the rights and wrongs of gravity. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/23/2008 11:27:32 AM |
When you find that treasure inside, you want others to have it.But you know it's something that has to be experienced....Like plantains. I could say "You must eat plantains! They are delicous!" Another will say " I hate plantains!" But until you eat one, and taste for yourself. You will never really know. I'm no longer trying to shove it down their throats.
These are statements that cause so much problems. they create so much seperation. I have this and you don't and the only way you will experience what IIII have you will have to believe and if you don't experience it then you simply aren't a true believer.
What makes you think people who aren't Christian don't find the treasure within? What makes you think that finding the treasure within even has anything to do with god at all? Just because some Christians and some spiritual people find this within them doesn't mean that atheists don't find this within themselves as well.
I can with certainty say that now that I don't believe in god at all that i feel this treasure within me more strongly and consistently because i understand how it is created. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/23/2008 11:58:31 AM | | Go back and read what I said again. I never said anything about "the treasure" having to do with christ,belief or non belief. You don't believe in god...great! You have a found that treasure...wonderful! There is no separation. I am subject to the same to the same things as everyone else on this planet. I don't think atheists,agnostics,buddhists,jews,gentiles,black,white,male,female,etc.,etc., are any better or worse than me. You made an assumption. I'm not here to debate the existence of god or not. Just to be clear. I don't think atheists are "bad". They are capable of all actions, good and bad. Just like everyone else. Ok? | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/23/2008 12:23:00 PM | The point of the OP is clearly shown in this thread.
nevralone
It seems the older I get and the more faith grows, I'm not so pushy. If someone is an atheist...great. Believer...ok....agnostic....fine. When you find that treasure inside, you want others to have it.
crazylilting
These are statements that cause so much problems. they create so much seperation. I have this and you don't and the only way you will experience what IIII have you will have to believe and if you don't experience it then you simply aren't a true believer.
And the response was predictable because I've seen a conversation go that way several times before. A christian can be as well meaning, as concise, as honest and as diplomatic as the best of us and still get knocked in the head because it is assumed we consider ourselves to posses the truth in our knowledge of Jesus Christ.
And we do...
But unfortunately most of us haven't healed a blind man lately or cleansed any lepers so while we believe Jesus is the truth we don't think we are the anymore superior because of that belief. Those who claim christianity and do believe that way are either immature or false or have raised a dead person recently.
Not to worry... we the sheeple, inorder to form a more perfect union... | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/23/2008 1:00:49 PM | The name of this thread caught my eye. . . and it is to that question I am posting my reply. My apologies, first to the previous posters who's responses I have only skimmed through, so hopefully I will not be duplicating an answer.
"Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religious belief's on people?"
The obvious reason is a simple tit for tat. Christians are far guiltier of pushing their beliefs on us "non-believers." As one who has studied the major religions of the world, I know that all "religions" basically tell the same story. There was a creator of life.
So, my question is, how does being a " non-Christan" equate to being "anti-religious?" Are the Hindus anti-religious? Are the Muslims anti-religious? Are the native Americans anti-religious. Are the ones who scorn "organized" religion anti-religious?
A religion is a set of beliefs and practices often organized around supernatural and moral claims, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.
Being "anti-Christian" is not the same as being "anti-religious."
Now. . . as for myself, i follow the Wiccan and Pagan ways. . .which are the Mother and Father of religion in the first place.
Cheers!
gw  | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/24/2008 6:43:08 AM | Hey Geometry!
Well said... they're going to try to tri-sect that angle using only a compass and a strait edge!
Humans always do seem to follow the same patterns... I've had times in my life where I've mistaken the voice of a larger version of me to be the voice of God. Now-a-days folks rent out a room at a hospital, a hotel or a church and have group conscience meetings and have created the New Age phenomena of like minded unity in the form of collective consciousness gods that are powerful indeed. But it is nothing new... same old soup just warmed over... as my creole caterer ganny used to say. But folks aint going to buy this Geo. Mainly cause no one really believes that there is nothing new under the sun! Everyone believes in the "good ole days" and even the Jews still quote the proverb that "the parents have eaten sour grapes, therefore are the childrens teeth set on edge." Now-a-days people quote 'The Byrds' so "I swear it's not too late..."
Hopefully one day the little old lady at the soup kitchen will start a revival and even if they find her out in the desert hiding away with a new beau folks will start to realize that just because we put alot of cheese on something doesn't mean that the cheese makers are more blessed... | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/24/2008 9:30:35 AM |
Everyone is religious. There is no such thing as a "non-religious" person. Every person has a "god", something that ranks first in their heart.
Please do not assume to know me and to know what's in my heart. Since I am someone, I am automatically included in your use of the word "everyone" and I refuse to be brought down to your level of how YOU choose to see people and the world around you. Those are your thoughts and your opinions only, but I assure you that they're not mine. And the last time I checked, I WAS some "one"...so no, not every "one" is religious or has a "god" or worships false idols...in your world perhaps, but certainly not in mine;)
"Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?"
I don't "press" anything on anyone, but it's clear that not everybody feels the same. When I speak of my stuff, I speak only of MY stuff and of my own personal feelings. I never assume to speak for anyone else, nor would I ever assume or be arrogant enough to think that I would or could possibly know what is in another person's heart. I'm me and I speak for me and you're you (general) and you speak for you...to each their own.
*Just my *own* opinions* | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/24/2008 10:32:13 AM |
Everyone is religious. There is no such thing as a "non-religious" person. Every person has a "god", something that ranks first in their heart. Excessive or undue devotion to money, sports, alcohol or entertainment are popular modern examples of idolatry. They're all examples of 2nd commandment transgression, or worshiping something created by the hands of man instead of the Creator of all things. For other people their "god(s)" could be celebrities, wildlife, science, or themselves. These are all examples of first commandment transgression in worshiping things Yahweh (GOD) created instead of worshiping the Creator Himself. In fact worship of self is original sin. Eve was tempted to become like Yahweh (GOD) Himself when she ate from the tree. Nothing has changed in our world, as Solomon writes in Ecclesiastes there is nothing new under the sun. Just because modern day people who rebel against their Creator are known as seculars, humanists, or whatever doesn't change the fact that it's just a new name for the same old thing. The end result of which will be the same as it has in the past as well.
You know how it goes. We were all born Muslim and led astray.
The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/24/2008 11:43:35 AM |
It seems to me that spending your whole time trying to disprove the existence of anything is a fairly fruitless exercise... after all, if you succeed you end up with NOTHING! Is there not more constructive things for people to be getting on with.
Good men, when left to their own devices, will do good deeds. Evil men, when left to their own devices, will do evil deeds. But to get a good man to do evil deeds, that takes religion. Every time someone becomes an Atheist the world becomes a better place. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/24/2008 12:02:12 PM |
Good men, when left to their own devices, will do good deeds. Evil men, when left to their own devices, will do evil deeds. But to get a good man to do evil deeds, that takes religion. Every time someone becomes an Atheist the world becomes a better place.
I belonged to a church that was unorganized and did plenty of good deeds without blowing trumpets. After a few years the church got organized and started writing things down and founded a pastors school. One of the original leaders of that church said before he died that many a good hearted christian was ruined in that pastors school. No point to make except that what you said made me laugh and reminded me of how I felt when I heard that so long ago. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/24/2008 12:26:14 PM | Why do I feel the need to discuss the implausibility of theism? Because theism is baseless, plain and simple. I don't care if you disagree with me. I'm not forcing you to convert, nor am I going into your own residence and preaching this to you. I'm doing so in a public discussion forum about religion. It would be unreasonable to think that people aren't going to be discussing religious issues in such a place, specifically issues relating to atheism. If you don't want to hear about it, duck your head in the sand, but I'm not pressing anything on you at all.
It seems to me that spending your whole time trying to disprove the existence of anything is a fairly fruitless exercise... after all, if you succeed you end up with NOTHING!
Sometimes even nothing is better than something. For instance, I'd rather have nothing than radical Islamic extremists flying into buildings partly because they believe this is what their God wants them to do. Furthermore, you don't really end up with nothing, but with a useful, more intelligent way to view the world that doesn't rely on useless, outdated mythology. Clearing away superstition paves the way for a more reasonable worldview. To build a fancy new skyscraper, sometimes you have to tear down the mud huts already on the site. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/24/2008 6:26:33 PM | "Because Christians do it to us" is the easy answer, but I'll skip it because it's been covered.
So I'll go to the real answer. Even if you don't agree with this I'm stating this as WHY we do it, which is the question you actually asked.
Because we really genuinely believe that religion and even belief itself is doing harm, harm to us personally as individuals, harm to us as a society, and harm to us as a world.
We genuinely believe that religion is a force for nothing but division on a societal scale, guilt and shame on an individual level, and outright war and death globally.
As the bible says, by its fruit shall you know it, and by the fruit of religion we know it and see it for what it is, and despise it. We choose to hate the seed that grows that tree. The belief itself. The belief that you have to have faith. The belief that there is something bigger than you, something "right". That belief is what tears people apart, inside and out. It makes people certain of things they should be open and questioning of, and makes them take as absolutes things that should be subjective and personal, like morality.
Religion stifles our understanding of the world by forcing a static view of the world that is counter to true understanding - faith without proof; belief without questioning.
Religion gives us the world we have today, the worst of it. Religion based morality tells us that sex is bad and sinful. Religion takes our hard-earned money. Religion makes us guilty for what we do and what we feel. Religion justifies the darkest of mankind while hiding the best. Religion is counter to law, counter to justice. Religion keeps us apart, tears us down, makes us judge, makes us fear, makes us weak.
Why do we make anti-religious comments? Because we genuinely want to make the world a better place.
Furthermore, you don't really end up with nothing, but with a useful, more intelligent way to view the world that doesn't rely on useless, outdated mythology.
Nicely put. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/24/2008 6:53:36 PM |
The heart of the problem really is that both the Bible and the Koran promote values and modes of thinking unsuited to modern society. Homsosexuality, equal rights for women, no slavery are all modern ways of thinking.
Sorry being gay isn't natural it is dirty just like people having sex with animals it wasn't meant to be. Equal rights is a myth there can't be a truly equal society. The universal has yin and yang, positive and negative they are not equals. Slavery still does exist you just don't know about them I suggest you do some research. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/24/2008 7:04:02 PM | TheS0urce
Sorry being gay isn't natural it is dirty just like people having sex with animals it wasn't meant to be.
Well that's one opinion I guess. And what do you think homosexuality is - a choice? If so, tell me how old you were when you 'chose' to be a heterosexual. And if it was a choice, I guess that you are just as gay as a gay person - you merely make different choices. Ever wonder why gay people choose a sexual preference that makes them hated by millions?
Here's a little hint....I never chose my sexual preference - don't think you did either. | |
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