| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/24/2008 7:07:37 PM | We genuinely believe that religion is a force for nothing but division on a societal scale, guilt and shame on an individual level, and outright war and death globally
So religion is the root of all evil? Religion is a means of justifying a belief. Some people will use it justify doing something terrible because that's what they want to do.
However, lots of people who have religion are more giving and charitable than average. Religion gives some people a standard to live by. Religion can provide comfort for the grieving and direction for the lost. It can provide a real sense of comunity for those who are involved in it. If you went to a church near me you would only hear talk of peace and forgiveness. Religion welcomes people to the world, marries them, welcomes their kids and presides over their burials.
Whatever its downsides may be it plays a role in society that nothing else does. You can happily argue that other things can and should play those roles, but they dont. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/24/2008 7:59:24 PM | I'm not attacking your church, nor your beliefs. Merely stating why people feel the need to press our anti-religious beliefs.
And I didn't say religion is the root of all evil. Being human is the root of all evil. We are selfish. But religions is used to justify the worst of evil.
lots of people who have religion are more giving and charitable than average
Are they giving and charitable because of their religion or are they giving and charitable because they're good people? And when you say giving and charitable is that to their religion, or to the people who actually need it? :)
Religion gives some people a standard to live by.
Indeed, but it also gives some people a standard to force other people to live by, or to judge them if they don't. Whether that be that they live with someone they're not married to or eat meat. Also, what standard? Any standard of religious behaviour that I've seen is a double standard. The standards that mean the most are the ones you make for yourself. Personally I'd prefer people didn't explicitly need to be told not to kill. They should already know that.
Religion can provide comfort for the grieving and direction for the lost.
I've never liked that concept. That religion provides comfort for the grieving. Someone once told me that if they were dying of cancer they'd prefer to think they were going to heaven. My response then is the same as now - then why not tell them they're going to get better? If it's OK to tell one lie just to make someone feel better then why not go all the way. (Note I'm not just being argumentative, the point they were making was that it didn't matter if it's the truth as long as it's comforting, and that's what I disagree with.)
Religion welcomes people to the world, marries them, welcomes their kids and presides over their burials.
Saying religion is what marries people is like saying shackles are what bind arms. Marriage is a religious institution, a religious ceremony. And yes, it presides over their burials. But that's tradition, not belief. How many people at a given funeral honestly believe? Few, we're just being polite. (That being said, I speak as an Australian, and we're quite secular.) I'm not sure how religion welcomes people to the world.
I still think that for all of the "community" religion provides (one of its few benefits in a world where a sense of belonging is sorely needed) the downsides well and truly overwhelm the good. Slavery, oppression, violence, death, despair, hate. These are the legacy religion.
This all being said, my point is not to win an argument with anyone that religion is good or bad. My point is merely to say to the OP why exactly we feel the need to say what we do. Or at least... why I personally do. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 8:52:16 AM | You got the angle of my post wrong a bit. I'm not saying that the religious belief is the motivating factor in marriage, baptism or funerals. Simply that religion provides those ceremonies and that I think its good that something does.
The people I know who are charitable and are giving to people in need. Most of them don't even involve religion in the giving. As you say they are good people, my point was that religion has not made them bad.
I would also prefer that people didn't need a framework like religion to tell them how to live. However some of them do and I can't think of anything else that would provide a framework for those people.
I don't have a church as such. Sometimes it quite nice to see what happens in other peoples though. As long as they leave the religion out of it. I find that without religion the spirtual side of life (whatever your particular take on it may be) is forgotten. | |
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MsLi
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Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 80 | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 10:24:27 AM |
Actually it is. Scientists have observed homosexual behavior in nearly every other species on the planet.
Human beings aren't animals, If being gay was natural our population would be much lower. Animals are filth that is a fact you are comparing humans to animals. That is a real bad comparison. Male and female species are made to reproduce not for just sex purposes otherwise they wouldn't have reproductive organs.
If people had higher morals, earth would be a better place to live in. I am not anti religion, I just don't follow religion but doesn't mean I don't believe in gods or enlightened beings. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 10:38:28 AM |
Human beings aren't animals, If being gay was natural our population would be much lower. Animals are filth that is a fact you are comparing humans to animals. That is a real bad comparison. Male and female species are made to reproduce not for just sex purposes otherwise they wouldn't have reproductive organs.
Wow...somebody failed biology.
More than once.
Humans are animals.
They are primates, as a matter of fact.
And what that has to do w/ Non-Christians forcing the beliefs on Christians...I have no idea.
I DO know that I don't see atheist or anti-theist commercials on TV begging people for money to "feed" people in foreign countries.
And then use that money to proselytize, instead of feeding them.
PS: Most of the people on Earth AREN'T Christian.
Wasn't sure whether or not that was something else you didn't know. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 12:07:09 PM |
Human beings aren't animals
That's where I stopped reading. You're a joke.
Religion gives some people a standard to live by.
But a whooooooole load of dangerous stuff comes with that. As far as morals go, religion is completely unnecessary. Name me one moral action performed by a believer that couldn't have been performed by an unbeliever.
On the flip side, name me an immoral action that could only come from faith.
Religion can provide comfort for the grieving and direction for the lost.
How can you say that and not feel so incredibly cheap? No self respecting human being would desire to fool themselves with wish thinking. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 12:08:40 PM | I'm still shocked by the "animals are filth" statement.
wow...
I don't have any need to press my anti-religious beliefs on anyone.. I like to debate though.. and I like rational thought. I like facts as opposed to speculation and wild assumption based on undigested thought matrixes.
Homosexuality presents itself in the same percentage of humans as it does in other animals...about 11% of the population. Not near enough to cause any extinction problems. It's actually OVER-population that has some bearing on animal sexuality.. and probably homo sapiens as well. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 12:46:55 PM | I believe that homosexuality, alcoholism, mental illnesses and diseases like diabetes all have one thing in common.... mutated DNA. I believe they are all a set of difficulties that attach themselves to those who are in the right family lines and in the right places.
It's the random personal difficulties that each one of us have.
As a christian I believe that a male with the problem of extra female chromosones will be tempted with sexual desires for other males... but then a male or female born with a mental illness and who cannot handle anger as normally as most of us can will be tempted more with violence... etc etc...
We all have our set of difficulties and few of us master our sin without outside help.
What we human animal/children of God do not seem to have is the pragmatic ability to be the kind of folks who see the best way to make ourselves prosperus and immortal. We all seem to be able to agree that none of us is perfect... then what makes us think we can judge anything rightly?
No... I don't like pushy mean christians and will be quick to let them know because I love them... I don't like pushy mean atheist and will be quick to let them know because I love them... and I don't like it when I'm pushy or mean and will be quick to thank anyone who can point it out to me... christian, atheist or whatevah. | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 86 | |
| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 12:58:30 PM | Its not about being temtped by the same sex. I have several gay friends and they all tell the same story. They just dont feel a shred of attraction for the opposite sex, or even the OTT gays, the majority of them fancy real men.
And to really put the cat amongst the pigeons there is even a huge amount of evidence to suggest the Christ was actually gay. He got to 33 without marrying in a society where early marriage was the norm. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 12:59:30 PM |
I believe that homosexuality, alcoholism, mental illnesses and diseases like diabetes all have one thing in common.... mutated DNA. I believe they are all a set of difficulties that attach themselves to those who are in the right family lines and in the right places.
It's the random personal difficulties that each one of us have.
As a christian I believe that a male with the problem of extra female chromosones will be tempted with sexual desires for other males... but then a male or female born with a mental illness and who cannot handle anger as normally as most of us can will be tempted more with violence... etc etc...
Ummm...diabetes and mental illness are diagnosed illnesses.
Alcoholism is an illness that is also a social disorder.
No credible medical professional would diagnose homosexuality as a "medical issue."Nor would they likely say that one family or another would be predisposed to the "mutated DNA" (as you put it) that would create somebody who's homosexual.
Why would you call a behavior that you may not (or may) accept as a "personal difficulty?"
Is it a difficulty for you perhaps...or do you have difficulty accepting it?
And since the bible is not very useful for anything but teaching about christianity...what about being a "christian", would qualify anybody to make blanket statements about either medicine or genetics?
This type of pseudo-scientific pabulum is why christians and non-christians (which again is MOST of the people on Earth) have the disagreements they do.
If christians kept their philosophy out of areas of life where it has no business and adds nothing to...then they probably wouldn't feel "threatened."
If indeed they do. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 2:50:39 PM | Oh my........Seems the OP must have been having a bad hair day, when drafting message #1.
Speaking for myself, as an apostate christian, I see these fora as just that.....a place to put a point of view. These fora are not mutual agreement societies, where the original poster, and responding posters must agree with total harmony, any tripe that the original poster cares to express.
You seem very troubled that anyone may have a view about faith that is contrary to your own. If it concerns you that much....start a religious dating site, and exclude all others from it that don't agree with your own world view.
Once you are fully awake you may be able to figure out that for some of us God, Jesus and all things Religious are not things to be questioned and torn apart but instead are things to be simply accepted.
That may be all very well, for those who have an unquestioning belief in God, Jesus and all things religious......but often, such people don't limit this point of view to themselves......and therefore THEY press THEIR beliefs onto others, some in benign ways....others in a malignant ways. The simple acceptance of foolishness.....has the tendancy to....well.... to make one .....foolish. Whether a belief in God, Jesus, and all things religion is foolishness, is a matter of debate.....in my view, the arguments / evidence presented by the affirmative side of the god theory debate, are not particularly convincing.
I was not aware that the POF fora was your paddling pool, OP......but there is enough excrement in the pool from some of the most vile posts imaginable from theistic homophobes et al......that a little urea antithetical to theism, would hardly be noticeable. 
It seems to me that spending your whole time trying to disprove the existence of anything is a fairly fruitless exercise... after all, if you succeed you end up with NOTHING! Is there not more constructive things for people to be getting on with.[quote/]
What a dishonest, asinine statement. I just put it down to your own frustration that your religious views are not just meekly accepted without question.
Our knowledge of what does exist has to some extent been determined by the disproving of what does not exist. Our present knowledge about microbiology has been built upon the disproving of theories of spontaneously generated disease. This is one of many examples that decisively refutes your statement. On the other hand......countless hours have been reputed to have been spent on debating how many angels can stand on the head of a pin.....how pointless and fruitless is that?????
You seem to be ignorant of the Null Hypothesis in scientific investigation......but then again, you would probably prefer a cordon sanitaire placed in front of your faith against the perfidious challenges of reason. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 2:55:00 PM | sorry about formatting error....last part of my last post should read
It seems to me that spending your whole time trying to disprove the existence of anything is a fairly fruitless exercise... after all, if you succeed you end up with NOTHING! Is there not more constructive things for people to be getting on with.
What a dishonest, asinine statement. I just put it down to your own frustration that your religious views are not just meekly accepted without question.
Our knowledge of what does exist has to some extent been determined by the disproving of what does not exist. Our present knowledge about microbiology has been built upon the disproving of theories of spontaneously generated disease. This is one of many examples that decisively refutes your statement. On the other hand......countless hours have been reputed to have been spent on debating how many angels can stand on the head of a pin.....how pointless and fruitless is that?????
You seem to be ignorant of the Null Hypothesis in scientific investigation......but then again, you would probably prefer a cordon sanitaire placed in front of your faith against the perfidious challenges of reason. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 3:18:01 PM |
I believe that homosexuality, alcoholism, mental illnesses and diseases like diabetes all have one thing in common.... mutated DNA. I believe they are all a set of difficulties that attach themselves to those who are in the right family lines and in the right places.
It's the random personal difficulties that each one of us have.
I have to agree DNA mutation is caused by certain foods (maybe too much), chemicals, drug abuse and homosexuality. Most people have only 2 strands connected to DNA, you can have up to I believe 26. Some say there's only 10 or 20. I have only heard of once having 26 strands. I remember watching a tv show where two couples had 3 strands of DNA. Even though these couples we a little overweight they weren't porn to getting disease, they also had strong immune system. I don't know about getting attack to right family line but I do know people with more DNA have less karma or no karma at all.
o... I don't like pushy mean christians and will be quick to let them know because I love them... I don't like pushy mean atheist and will be quick to let them know because I love them... and I don't like it when I'm pushy or mean and will be quick to thank anyone who can point it out to me... christian, atheist or whatevah.
I have to agree, I don't follow any religion. I don't like to be pushed or convinced into someone's belief I think that's wrong but you can not change one's heart, not for long anyways. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 3:36:06 PM | cocytus
Why would you call a behavior that you may not (or may) accept as a "personal difficulty?"
Is it a difficulty for you perhaps...or do you have difficulty accepting it?
My biological inclanation is toward women... but having gone to a military school as a pre to developing adolescent I have some insight into the differences between a cry for acceptance and a biological inclination. Growing up many accused me of having a racial identity crisis but later I found that they were projecting one from within themselves. My spiritual/scientific veiw point on this is loosely based on personal experience and competing research that puts the percentages of natural homosexuality anywhere from 1 to 11%. I think the figure is probably closer to the smaller number while the percentage get larger with social variables.
This type of pseudo-scientific pabulum is why christians and non-christians (which again is MOST of the people on Earth) have the disagreements they do.
If christians kept their philosophy out of areas of life where it has no business and adds nothing to...then they probably wouldn't feel "threatened."
If indeed they do.
Indeed some do but not I... most of the time. There is research that lines up with my philosophy and research that doesn't. My cholesterol count got lower even though I kept eating the now 'incredible edible egg'. But when I post I cannot express the whole scope of my views all the time. Many have read what I always say and that is that 'I don't know' can often times be better than saying 'I love you' and then pushing my truth onto others. For my part after doing research on a number of subjects I found that if you have a strong opinion one way or another you can probably fine the scientific research you need. So pseudo-scientific is always in the eye of the beholder since from my observation the un-biased or totally honest are few and far inbetween. Lacking any expertise on the subjects I talked about I was only stating my belief. I'ma retired veteran who could tell you a little about military doctrine and effective battlefield training scenarios... just like I could tell you that don't ask don't tell was in effect wayyyyy before President Clinton made it policy.
My main point was that folks are pushy... pushy and opinionated and don't know what it means when Christ said 'Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.' For may part I see in that statement the way to true freedom from the enemy within and the world of power and prestige. After all... the humble folks save us... but the powerful folks end up taking the credit for it. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 6:03:14 PM |
I have to agree DNA mutation is caused by certain foods (maybe too much), chemicals, drug abuse and homosexuality.
Um, you know it doesn't work like that, right?
For example, if you were to lose an arm in an accident it wouldn't mean that your future children would also be born with only one arm.
So please explain to me how sticking my weiner in some dudes butt is going to actually change my DNA and making it, according to you, more susceptible to mutation? | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 8:47:27 PM |
As a christian I believe that a male with the problem of extra female chromosones will be tempted with sexual desires for other males...
And since the bible is not very useful for anything but teaching about christianity...what about being a "christian", would qualify anybody to make blanket statements about either medicine or genetics?
Exactly. "As a christian I believe" doesn't make it true. It's ok when it's subjective like "as a christian I believe Jesus is the son of God". I don't, but ok. But you can't just say "As a christian I believe the sky is a luminescent mauve, and bananas fall from it" and expect that gives it any more credence.
The response is spot on, as proven by the very suggestion that gay men have "the problem of extra female chromosomes". From a scientific point of view this is simply... wrong. We all have 46 chromosomes (in 23 pairs). One pair carries gender, with the chromosomes being either an X from the mother (always) and an X from your father, making you a girl, or a Y from your father making you a boy.
That being said, extra female chromosomes DO happen. There is a condition called XXY or Klinefelter Syndrome where a boy has two female chromosomes. Genitally male they can have a tendancy towards "womanliness", growing small amounts of breast tissue, soft bodies, and having low sperm count and relatively poor endochrine systems. They also tend to be shorter. There's no corresponding levels of homosexuality, and no tendency for homosexuals to have this condition. It's "rare" but only in purely numerical terms. Even at 1/1000 births that's still one every 10 minutes in the US alone. Another condition, XXX, results in girls who are... well... almost totally normal. Few even know. The male equivalent, XYY has similarly no response, despite movie and TV presentations of them being "super male", violent and aggressive. Most don't even know. 1/750 men have it.
In conclusion: feel free to speculate about higher exposure to female hormones in the womb, lack of a strong male role model, etc, but try to avoid being just plain wrong.
I have to agree DNA mutation is caused by certain foods (maybe too much), chemicals, drug abuse and homosexuality.
Um... Homosexuality doesn't cause genetic mutation. I'm not for a second saying that it might not have genetic factors, but DNA mutation is NOT caused by homosexuality. Careful. Your ignorance is showing.
Most people have only 2 strands connected to DNA, you can have up to I believe 26. Some say there's only 10 or 20. I have only heard of once having 26 strands. I remember watching a tv show where two couples had 3 strands of DNA.
WHAT?! Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?! Strands of what connected to DNA? Are you referring to Chromosomes? God I hope not. I tell you for a fact that no "couple" had only three chromosomes. Do you know what has 3 chromosomes? NOTHING. Mozzies have 6. Fruitflies have 8. There's an ant that oddly enough has only two. A human has 23 pairs. 46 chromosomes. The lack of a single chromosome causes such severe deformities as Downs' Syndrome. Please don't be suggesting that a couple (what are the odds) happen to have forgotten 43 of them with no ill effects.
I don't know what these "strands" are, but from the sounds of it you simply didn't understand what you were watching. There's no "some say". There's facts.
I don't know about getting attack to right family line but I do know people with more DNA have less karma or no karma at all.
I don't know how to answer this intelligently, so I'll just go with this: You're wrong and you're stupid.
Barring genetic abnormalities we all have the same amount of DNA. To suggest that's any way related to Karma is stupid. To say that you KNOW that is even stupider. Well done. You're playing intellectual limbo. Keep lowering the bar. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 9:10:44 PM | I have no idea honestly, but it doesn't bother me. Like I've heard before.... I may not like what you have to say but I will fight for your right to say it. As long as a person doesn't infringe upon my basic rights then it's all to the good. I'm not about to sit up and argue over anything as abstract as religion. I think that the people who do probably find it their holy duty to convert us heathens (lots of eye rolling here) OR the other side of the coin exercising their collective voices trying to educate the masses to the error of "faith" in general. It is a monster bad waste of time and energy, but hell by all means knock yourselves out. It is your right. God bless America. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/25/2008 10:49:17 PM | What is 12 Strand DNA Activation?
At present, we utilize only 2 strands of our DNA. The other 10 strands are what scientists call our “shadow” or “junk” strands of DNA. They are here to play an important part in the new light pattern of the restructuring of our DNA blueprints and our evolving world.
The latest Russian scientific research directly or indirectly explains phenomena such as clairvoyance, intuition, spontaneous and remote acts of healing, self healing, affirmation techniques, unusual light/auras around people (namely spiritual masters), the mind’s influence on weather patterns and much more.
Barring genetic abnormalities we all have the same amount of DNA. To suggest that's any way related to Karma is stupid. To say that you KNOW that is even stupider. Well done. You're playing intellectual limbo. Keep lowering the bar.
Sure whatever you say sir  | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/26/2008 1:46:52 AM | What on earth are you talking about TheSOurce? DNA mutations? The only thing i understand as far as mutations go are like radiation, sunlight, and long term smoking etc... Could you provide a link or two for further reading?
Mutations of any kind seem to be disease from the limited reading i've done, but if there is a DNA link to addiction's i'd like to know a little more about it.
And where are the moderators? What with the comments about gay people???
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/26/2008 2:29:11 AM | What I find amusing is that most non christians are in fact religious. The OP is so straight jacketed to his own faith he doesn't see the alternatives. (Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Ect.)
Of course this thread is 3 years old.
<div class='quote'>Err... what's with the assumption that everyone is an American? I'm Australian, and a lot of the other forum contributors are British, etc.
The webpage is Canadian owned. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/26/2008 2:56:02 AM | Ahhh, Mr Source, I mistakenly thought you were referring to actual science.
The "DNA" he's referring to is discussed in another thread in this forum called "DNA Activation". It's basically pseudo-(read non)-scientific nonsense about the hidden potential in our "etheric dna strands". You know the double helix that forms our DNA? Apparently it's a dodecahelix, with the other ten containing our latent abilities. And the psychic powers hidden therein can be unlocked for 10 easy payments of only...
I think we can all (except the morons) agree that the fact that he believes this twaddle undermines everything he's already said. Bar... dropping. | |
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