| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/26/2008 6:06:28 AM | Goodness Whitegold,
The quotation "There's a sucker born every minute"....attributed to P.T.Barnum.....applies aptly to those who are gullible enough to fall for the claims of the pseudo scientific.
I find it excedingly bizarre that those who declaim science and reason in defence of their faith, are happy to use the "authority" of junk science/pseudo science to support their cause.
I refer to TheSOurce's reference in post #97
The latest Russian scientific research directly or indirectly explains phenomena such as clairvoyance, intuition, spontaneous and remote acts of healing, self healing, affirmation techniques, unusual light/auras around people (namely spiritual masters), the mind’s influence on weather patterns and much more.
What research is this?...please reference the source so that we may evaluate its credibilty. I could just as easily respond by saying that the latest research by biblical scholars directly or indirectly explains that the purported existence of Jesus is an hoax, an ancient practical joke that misfired. It is a proposition that I have of course fabricated, but who knows....some undergraduate somewhere in the world has possibly handed in a term paper on that thesis, so I may not be actually wrong....just dishonest in making the claim.
As to the nonsense of DNA activation, which TheSOurce seems to be alluding to in his references to DNA, it is a fine way of relieving the gullible of their money by E-snake oil merchants if you will. I was so convinced of the claims of one site...I immediately signed up for 4 auric clearing sessions at US$100 each. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/26/2008 6:42:43 AM | I'm not sure if it will let me post. I've had too many posts on this thread, but still.
Here is the russian research. Actually I couldn't find that much about the research itself, but here are some of its findings.
The Russian scientists also found out that our DNA can cause disturbing patterns in the vacuum, thus producing magnetized wormholes! Wormholes are the microscopic equivalents of the so-called Einstein-Rosen bridges in the vicinity of black holes (left by burned-out stars). These are tunnel connections between entirely different areas in the universe through which information can be transmitted outside of space and time. The DNA attracts these bits of information and passes them on to our consciousness.
Russian researcher Dr.Vladimir Poponin put DNA in a tube and beamed a laser through it. When the DNA was removed, the laser light continued spiralling on its own, like it would through a crystal! This effect is called ‘Phantom DNA Effect’.
It is surmised that energy from outside of space and time still flows through the activated wormholes after the DNA was removed. The side effect encountered most often in hyper communication and also in human beings are inexplicable electromagnetic fields in the vicinity of the persons concerned. Electronic devices like CD players and the like can be irritated and cease to function for hours. When the electromagnetic field slowly dissipates, the devices function normally again. Many healers and psychics know this effect from their work.
The good thing about this kind of "science" is it's kind of self-evaluating. It's riddled with scientific terms used badly and logical holes.
Some of my favourite parts - Einstein-Rosen bridges are a hypothetical construct. How did he find them? Turned on his Einstein-Rosen Bridge Detector and listened for the "ping"? How does he demonstrate their existence in DNA? The DNA attracts information and passes it to our consciousness? How? Proven by what? Then the putting DNA in a tube. Like it's that available. You can get it at shops. "Pint of DNA thanks love." How does laser "spiral"? What do crystals have to do with it? DOES laser through a crystal spiral?
So much nonsense. Just... nonsense. I lack the words. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/26/2008 6:57:32 AM | The question in the OP is a reverse accusation of something usually pointed at the religious.
The last few posts in going off topic and using such words as
stupid
moron
sucker
to me merely show that the question is valid. It never fails to amaze me how folks who call something
pseudo science
can take themselves seriously. It also never fails to amaze me that folks can be insulting and bash others without considering their own reflection in the picture they paint of their own intelligence.
Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Obviously there is no single answer for this loaded question... but the statement in the question attracts those of us who in many ways are guilty of the sentiment, christian or not. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/26/2008 7:23:07 AM |
to me merely show that the question is valid. It never fails to amaze me how folks who call something
pseudo science
can take themselves seriously. It also never fails to amaze me that folks can be insulting and bash others without considering their own reflection in the picture they paint of their own intelligence.
What would you call science that has no factual basis but is merely used to support a religious belief or dogma?
Pseudo-science is a legitimate term.
It's defines beliefs or theories that are given a veneer scientific authenticity but have no real scientific basis in fact.
Stating that "mutated DNA" is the cause of homosexuality, w/o providing any peer-reviewed documentation that states this is a sign of pseudo-science.
Using science to justify religion ultimately shows the true weaknesses of religion.
And blaming non-christians (which ,again, is the majority of the world's population) for "pressing their beliefs" is just a smokescreen for the failure of christianity to provide its adherents w/ the "answers" that they seek. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/26/2008 12:03:51 PM |
What would you call science that has no factual basis but is merely used to support a religious belief or dogma?
Pseudo-science is a legitimate term.
It's defines beliefs or theories that are given a veneer scientific authenticity but have no real scientific basis in fact.
Stating that "mutated DNA" is the cause of homosexuality, w/o providing any peer-reviewed documentation that states this is a sign of pseudo-science.
Using science to justify religion ultimately shows the true weaknesses of religion.
And blaming non-christians (which ,again, is the majority of the world's population) for "pressing their beliefs" is just a smokescreen for the failure of christianity to provide its adherents w/ the "answers" that they seek.
Excellent post, I agree completely. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/26/2008 12:35:57 PM | cocytus
Using science to justify religion ultimately shows the true weaknesses of religion.
And blaming non-christians (which ,again, is the majority of the world's population) for "pressing their beliefs" is just a smokescreen for the failure of christianity to provide its adherents w/ the "answers" that they seek.
The little old lady with the soup kitchen on the corner of fifth and main never took any credit for what the Lord did through her. She never pushed her faith or her soup on anyone. And the folks who come back and donate at her soup kitchen because they used to be customers don't blow any trumpets for the little old lady because they know it would be the wrong thing to do.
My opinions and beliefs about things like homosexuality may offend you and can change with better evidence supporting other explanations. The bowl of soup and the life changing smile I got from the little old christian lady at the soup kitchen cannot. | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 107 | |
| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/26/2008 3:54:47 PM | Its not the little old lady on the corner though. Its about people like GW Bush, with his 'end of days' beliefs and his familys involvement in the oil and military hardware industries. Thats evil and dangerous in the extreme. Its about Opus Dei and the Roman Catholic Church, evangelists ripping people off for millions, to line their own pockets. Most of the tenets of religions are fine, the heart of the matter, but its been warped by greedy people for their own ends. The amount of money that goes into supporting these religions, in comparison to the amount thats actually spent helping people is criminal. And its not just traditional religions, it people coming up with wacked out new age ideas to part people from their cash. Tax free status for religions neds removing, any religious involvment in any states policy needs criminalising.
As for science, its the Christians who brought science into it, trying to disprove Darwin. Science never actually went out to kill religion, its the other way around, and always has been. Religions have a known history of persecuting scientists, even torturing and killing them and suppressing their works, and it hasnt changed yet. Religion hates and fears science, what if some scientist comes up tomorrow and proves there cant be a God, thats their fear. The evil is in dinsosaur ideas that never move on.
As for homosexuality, its been around as long as man has. Its always been an accepted part of life in the Greek culture, Alexander for example. And its always been a tolerated aspect of life in Middle Eastern and Native American cultures as well. There has been a rise, possibly due to the pill and the use of female hormones in industry. Thats due to hormone imbalances in the mother during pregnancy screwing with the chemical make up of the foetus, not their DNA. And its self-defeating, the nature of homsexuality means its unlikely to breed itself into the population. It occurs naturally in dogs, about 25%, in humasn its been 10% as long as I can remember seeing figures for it, but it may have risen slightly. Still, its a part of society and needs accepting. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/26/2008 6:56:19 PM | p0st#104
to me merely show that the question is valid. It never fails to amaze me how folks who call something
pseudo science
can take themselves seriously. It also never fails to amaze me that folks can be insulting and bash others without considering their own reflection in the picture they paint of their own intelligence. et al in that post.
I am amazed that your amazed that folks like me just don't faithfully accept any old tosh that is dished up to us....just because someone uses some pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo in order to part my cash from me (and others). There are undoubtedly people that feel that they have run out of options in dealing with some life issue...perhaps health...perhaps relationship issues that they are willing to write cheques to people on the basis of faith that what is told to them is true, when in fact there is no sound basis for the claims that are made.....the more wonderful and powerful the panacea offered.....and the more desperate the person is that is seeking a solution...the more likely is the victim to be fleeced of their money. I make no apologies for making that clear...and the unscrupulous....both secular and theistic....are not loathe to exploit the weaknesses of the credulous and vulnerable.
If my earlier post has wandered off topic, it has been to challenge some of the asinine comments relating to homosexuality and whether or not we are animals. Like it or not...we are animals...just evolved with particular characteristics of intelligence and tool making etc. If the animal kindom were a democracy, The other constituents would undoubtedly have voted us out of the kingdom as a verminous blight upon it! We as a species, aided and abetted by various religious theories, have the arrogance to contend that we are the only species that truly matters and that the world revolves around our species. Like the dinosaurs in their time....we are merely holding central stage for the moment, in what is the continuing cavalcade that is evolution. We may not hold that position for very long, and for far shorter than the dinosaurs did, if we don't recognise that we are a part of the whole...and not the whole of the whole.
Getting back on topic, I don't go knocking door to door, to prosletyse for secular humanism....or atheism...or agnosticism...or existentialism or any other ism. I don't support atheist missionaries to the bible belt in the United States, I don't lobby domestic and foreign governments to subvert government policy, legislation and laws to adopt an atheistic bias. The most that I do, is that when I see remarks by the religiose how wonderful the Emperor's New Clothes look on the Emperor...I will sometimes counter with remarks to the effect that...."the Emperor looks kinda funny butt naked". | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 3/15/2008 12:35:59 PM | Maybe to dispell an ingrained fear of being wrong about what happens when we die... We think it's silly to say we know the unknowable and would try to spare more people from the spreading of fear and the dogmatism of religion in the name of control.
All perspectives should be heard so if we have to shout over the repeats of followers, we will. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 8/29/2009 6:26:02 AM | | I am Christian, but I believe that I am not here to judge. I see so many proclaimed Christians judging everyone under the sun. If the athiests are trying to get their point across, it is likely because they have been "under the gun" from all of the thiests around them. Why not let everyone have whatever belief they want? I personally believe that God send Jesus to die for our sins. I am happy to share my beliefs, but I do not push them down people's throats. If more Christians were content to share what they believe and less intent on forcing their beliefs on others, more athiests would probably have respect for Christians. I know many athiests who respect me. Why? I do not preach to them. I have shared my views and they have told me theirs. I agree to disagree. There is no harm in stating a belief, but when one makes their belief the only one that is "right", that causes people to become upset. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 9/3/2009 5:05:33 AM | RE Msg: 108 by chelloveck:
I am amazed that your amazed that folks like me just don't faithfully accept any old tosh that is dished up to us....just because someone uses some pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo in order to part my cash from me (and others). You mean like the huge numbers of products that are claimed to have benefits for children on a scientific basis, that were proved to have no solid scientific proof for them at all, yet continue to be bought in huge droves? One has to wonder why such mumbo-jumbo seems so accepted by so many people, so often, especially by middle-class people educated in science, and often even people with degrees in science.
Like it or not...we are animals... We kill animals and then we eat them. Why don't you kill humans and then eat them?
If the animal kindom were a democracy, The other constituents would undoubtedly have voted us out of the kingdom as a verminous blight upon it! We as a species, aided and abetted by various religious theories, have the arrogance to contend that we are the only species that truly matters and that the world revolves around our species. Like the dinosaurs in their time....we are merely holding central stage for the moment, in what is the continuing cavalcade that is evolution. We may not hold that position for very long, and for far shorter than the dinosaurs did, if we don't recognise that we are a part of the whole...and not the whole of the whole. That's how theists feel, that humans are only the stewards of the Earth, given that stewardship by G-d, and if we don't look after it, then G-d will take the Earth away from us. Seems that you have far more in common with theists than you might realise.
Getting back on topic, I don't go knocking door to door, to prosletyse for secular humanism....or atheism...or agnosticism...or existentialism or any other ism. So you're against those who say that religious people are delusional, and therefore are trying to use mental illness as an argument for conversion?
I don't support atheist missionaries to the bible belt in the United States, So you're against the atheist bus campaign in the UK?
I don't lobby domestic and foreign governments to subvert government policy, legislation and laws to adopt an atheistic bias. So you disagree with the government policy to teach a form of evolution that is in conflict with the Bible in schools?
The most that I do, is that when I see remarks by the religiose how wonderful the Emperor's New Clothes look on the Emperor...I will sometimes counter with remarks to the effect that...."the Emperor looks kinda funny butt naked". Now you know how theists feel when atheists talk trash about religion and theism. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 9/21/2009 1:57:06 AM |
Once you are fully awake you may be able to figure out that for some of us God, Jesus and all things Religious are not things to be questioned and torn apart but instead are things to be simply accepted.
I get plenty of sleep, and it doesn't stop me from expecting extraordinary evidence to support extraordinary claims.
If all things Religious rub you up the wrong way is that 'Religion' or 'your tolerance', or is it simply that you want to pick a fight
I don't have a problem with religion. I have a problem with followers who use religion as an excuse for sexism, bigotry, wars etc.
(mainly Christians it would appear)
Because there's mainly Christians in North America... so it makes sense most conversations regarding religion gravitate towards Christianity.
Is there not more constructive things for people to be getting on with.
Do you spend 100% of your time doing the absolutely most constructive thing(s) in life? | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 9/25/2009 12:40:44 AM | IMHO it isn't about an extrodinary claim it is about faith.. period not to be debated... One cannot debate the existince of God. Its like debating the existence of Love. we just feel it there is no proof... people choose to beleive in a god. why is it necessary to debunk a belief that is based on faith?
... Most of the time it isn't about saying there is proof of god it is about saying I believe in God.. or a source or higher power etc...sure some people think they can somehow prove god but only in the face of attacks on the belief... or to questions like does God exist?? which is purely speculation and opinion...
If I said science doesn't exist it is a figament of mans imagination a creation to encompass mans need to reason and rationalize things through logic. but science is BS.. it is just dogma. Science in itself is a creation of man. period. It allows us to utilize our need to rationalize, reason and syllogize... Wouldn't the whole world who chooses to operate under the premise of science feel a need to argue with me??? | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 9/26/2009 5:00:06 PM |
IMHO it isn't about an extrodinary claim it is about faith
It's an extraordinary claim, with no evidence, hence: faith. They're all related.
One cannot debate the existince of God.
Yes, one can. As we've demonstrated many times on this forum, and I'm SURE you've experienced IRL.
Its like debating the existence of Love.
Actually, it's nothing like debating the existence of Love. We can demonstrate love exists. We know exactly the areas of the brain love resides, and all kinds of chemicals that impact it. We can validate (through the scientific process) this feeling.
why is it necessary to debunk a belief that is based on faith?
Already answered this in Msg: 114
Most of the time it isn't about saying there is proof of god it is about saying I believe in God.
I thought you said you had evidence that God exists: we just feel it. Which is the point. For you, a “feeling” that God exists is sufficient evidence. For the rest of us, who believe there are alternative explanations for this feeling, it's insufficient evidence. As you've already stated: which is purely speculation and opinion.
If I said science doesn't exist
Some people do. Hindu's believe nothing we experience is real – that this is all a dream of a god.
but science is BS
Saying people are purple doesn't make it so. Please explain.
it is just dogma
Actually, science is the opposite of Dogma. Science (and more specifically the scientific process) requires proof. Which is precisely why string theory is not science – we can't prove it's predictions, because we're unable to observe (yet) the predictions made by it.
* a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof
source: wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn)
(from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") refers in its broadest sense to any systematic knowledge-base or prescriptive practice that is capable of resulting in a prediction or predictable type of outcome.
(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science )
Science in itself is a creation of man. period.
Okay.
Wouldn't the whole world who chooses to operate under the premise of science feel a need to argue with me?
You don't have a choice to operate under the premise of science or not. Since we can make accurate repeatable testable & observable predictions about you, you're part of the scientific process whether you like it or not. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 9/28/2009 1:48:43 PM | | I'm just still trying to figure out why it seems so monumentally important to so many athiests on here to "convert" people to their way of thinking. Seems that if you were convinced you were right, you'd be content to let others be blissful in their ignorance. But there is never a sense of agreeing to disagree. It's always as if they must keep pressing until you see it their way. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 9/28/2009 3:39:47 PM | Okay,
I'll repeat myself.
Again...
Already answered this in Msg: 114
And, I'll expand. How about in today's news things like...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8279276.stm
How about the bible / koran's view on sexism & mistreatment of gays. The book of morman's overt racism? The religious wars over land in Israel that have been going on for thousands of years? The religious persecution of scientists like Copernicus, Bruno, Galileo, Descartes, Newton, Halley, Darwin, Hubble, and Bertrand Russell?
How about the lives lost or destroyed each and every day because religion's still trying to (unsuccessfully) debunk & persecute science? How about the many Catholic Inquisitions where priests attempted to stop scientific discoveries & growth via black listing, torture, and even murder? How about manifest destiny? What about the millions of people who could benefit from stem cell research? As a country, how much of a medical edge is our country loosing because religious zealots refuse to allow our country to participate in this critical field? How many people were told they couldn't marry because of their ethnicity, or told they couldn't drink from the same fountain as a white person - all of this backed by biblical scripture & churches of the time  | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/5/2009 1:15:58 PM |
I'm just still trying to figure out why it seems so monumentally important to so many athiests on here to "convert" people to their way of thinking. Seems that if you were convinced you were right, you'd be content to let others be blissful in their ignorance. But there is never a sense of agreeing to disagree. It's always as if they must keep pressing until you see it their way.
If Theists were content to keeping their religion private there wouldn't be an issue. But they don't. We have constant attempts by Christians to sneak religious dogma into schools under the banner of Creationism/ID. We have Muslims flying airplanes into buildings. We have Jews sucking us into their Middle East conflicts. We have Hindus and Muslims bringing us to the brink of nuclear annihilation. We had a Christian president bring us into a war with Iraq because God told him to invade. There are powerful religious lobbies that fight against abortion rights, cloning technologies (which would allow the creation of organs for transplants without the risk of rejection or the need for donors), stem cell research, gay marriage, etc. Now we have Christians whining about being an oppressed majority. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/5/2009 1:26:24 PM |
The good thing about this kind of "science" is it's kind of self-evaluating. It's riddled with scientific terms used badly and logical holes.
Some of my favourite parts - Einstein-Rosen bridges are a hypothetical construct. How did he find them? Turned on his Einstein-Rosen Bridge Detector and listened for the "ping"? How does he demonstrate their existence in DNA? The DNA attracts information and passes it to our consciousness? How? Proven by what? Then the putting DNA in a tube. Like it's that available. You can get it at shops. "Pint of DNA thanks love." How does laser "spiral"? What do crystals have to do with it? DOES laser through a crystal spiral?
So much nonsense. Just... nonsense. I lack the words.
And it also explains crop circles!
http://www.spiritualgenome.com/crop_circles_explained.htm
Here's an article by the scientist himself.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_genetica04.htm | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/7/2009 1:37:06 PM | | IMO There are extremist in both religion and science who kill for the pursuant of their perceived advancement and good.. IMO these are corrupt dogmas and doctrines>> We bring up terrorists who attack with the name of their religious beliefs however... can you say Eugenics... ethnic cleansing...in the name of science.. IMO We do not need attribute horrific events perpetuated by aberrant members of society to either philosophy: religion or science. IMO any philosophy can be misinterpreted and utilized as a tool to control and kill. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/9/2009 1:23:56 PM |
IMO these are corrupt dogmas and doctrines
What's your evidence to support this conclusion?
can you say Eugenics... ethnic cleansing...in the name of science
There's a fallacy in your logic here:
Science does not "take sides" on such issues. Science is a tool used to learn about, describe, and understand our world. Individuals "take sides" based on their own personal set of moral codes. The (very few) people who are still pro-eugenics (Edwin Black comes to mind) are not doing so in the name of science, but in the name of pseudoscience - a very important distinction. You will not find a single reputable scientific journal, or university condoning it's practice.
IMO We do not need attribute horrific events perpetuated by aberrant members of society to either philosophy: religion or science.
Then, how do you propose we observe our world, and decide who's doing a better job of killing people - and by what motivation?
IMO any philosophy can be misinterpreted and utilized as a tool to control and kill.
Maybe, but that's not our point. I don't believe the Bible, Tanakh, or Kuran are being mis-interpreted. I believe these books are very clear on their views on: killing offenses, reasons for war, justification to occupy "the holy land", bigotry of gays, oppression of women, etc and so on. I don't think one can be "a believer" and not subscribe to the bigotry clearly laid out in the laws of their respective texts. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/9/2009 5:33:25 PM |
If Theists were content to keeping their religion private there wouldn't be an issue. But they don't. We have constant attempts by Christians to sneak religious dogma into schools under the banner of Creationism/ID. We have Muslims flying airplanes into buildings. We have Jews sucking us into their Middle East conflicts. We have Hindus and Muslims bringing us to the brink of nuclear annihilation. We had a Christian president bring us into a war with Iraq because God told him to invade. There are powerful religious lobbies that fight against abortion rights, cloning technologies (which would allow the creation of organs for transplants without the risk of rejection or the need for donors), stem cell research, gay marriage, etc.
So there are idiots on both sides of the fence. Assuming that extremists accurately represent all theists is ignorant and short-sighted. Flexing your "rightness" by behaving exactly like the zealots on the other side accomplishes what exactly? Other than making you look just as noncredible as the people you are trying to discredit.
Now we have Christians whining about being an oppressed majority.
Oppression is oppression. It doesn't really matter who is getting oppressed. Imposing one's will over another is the same practice no matter who is using it. The notion that a person or group of people coming from a previously favored position is somehow not being oppressed by having their rights trampled on is a subjective spin used to justify the very thing being arguing against. It's the same garbage that goes on in the endless racism and sexism arguments. "You had your turn to fück me, now it's my turn to fück you. It's only fair."
What ever happend to, "Your rights end where mine begin?" | |
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