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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/11/2009 3:11:00 PM | The reason people want to erase or disprove Christianity is that they don't want to hear they are doing something wrong. They know deep down it is right, but are in complete disobedience and don't want any reminders of their wrong choices. Also misery loves company, they want others to remain lost too..........others finding Jesus makes the disobedient people so mad. Very sad, but those who have the Spirit of God and follow see things through God's eyes.........as there really are!
In the end times.....what is right will seem wrong and what is wrong will seem right.....this is very true today. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/17/2009 12:16:37 AM |
So there are idiots on both sides of the fence. Assuming that extremists accurately represent all theists is ignorant and short-sighted. Flexing your "rightness" by behaving exactly like the zealots on the other side accomplishes what exactly? Other than making you look just as noncredible as the people you are trying to discredit.
Sorry, but this just doesn't fly. Look at the gay marriage issue. Everywhere that people have voted on the issue the masses have rejected it. This homophobia isn't just found in the zealots, it's mainstream. Theists don't generally separate politics from religion. Every time a Theist votes he's voting based on religious beliefs.
What ever happend to, "Your rights end where mine begin?"
Tell that to your fellow Theists. I can't remember the last time there was an Atheist suicide bomber, can you? | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:38:53 AM | My guess it is a backlash of having Christians attempting to shove their faith down peoples throats, and constant proselytizing (sp), that now other faiths and atheists are starting to become just as zealoted in their beliefs.
I was raised in a Catholic home, and still go to Catholic services and pray my Rosary, but the hypocrisy was overwhelming, the nasty fights, drinking, cheating, welfare fraud, et. al that went on in my home as a child, and then we were all sitting in church Sunday like the god little Catholic family.
I studied another religion for the past 13 years, and recently offically was dedicated and initiated.
We do not proselytize. We do not ask for money, accept money, or live off of our religion, and if anyone is interested in "converting", being taught the ways, or observing, they have to seek us out and ask, we will not knock on your door, harange you on the streetcorner, preach our beliefs as the only way to you, or condemn you to ather unpleasant places if you dont worship the way we do.
I really wish all religions operated like that.
I find it incredibly offensive for anyone to assume they can change anothers beliefs in their choice of higher powers to worship (or not worship_, and to assume its even up for negotiation. Wheather it be a Christian or an Atheist, believe what you want, and let others do do as well. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/18/2009 2:27:07 AM | Reply to message #126 Ladytix
The reason people want to erase or disprove Christianity is that they don't want to hear they are doing something wrong.
That is a broad generalisation that has no basis in fact. Although it suits the mindset of many christians to take that viewpoint, and it sits well with the theological propaganda of that faith, however the same charge may be made, and made just as unconvincingly against people of competing theistic faiths.
They know deep down it is right, but are in complete disobedience and don't want any reminders of their wrong choices.
That is an unwarranted assumption....also without any basis in fact. There are many reasons why one may not give any credence to the christian...or indeed any other theistic faith position. Secular / atheistic people may be viewed as disobedient to the god(s) of many faiths by the believers of those faiths....but that is merely the viewpoint of the faithful....you, purportedly as a christian are disobedient to the god Allah, I take it that you would welcome criticism for your unreasonable disobedience to Allah's will?
Also misery loves company, they want others to remain lost too
This is a misconception, also happily put about by some christians and no doubt people of other faiths, that the non religious, the atheists etc are an unhappy miserable bunch, quite unable to function effectively without "god's grace" shining down upon them from the heavens above. I am no more "lost", with regard to christianity, than I am "lost" with regard to Islam, Jainism, Shintoism, Judaism, or animism etc....but if I were to choose a theistic belief system to follow...I find the old Norse gods very appealing...as a warrior....fighting all day in Asgaard....and wenching and drinking all night in Valhalla seems a much more interesting afterlife than any of the christian harps, halos and angels wings that Heaven has to offer. None the less...unfortunately there is no more evidence to support the existence of the Norse pantheon, than there is evidence to support the pantheon of gods, angels, cherubim and seraphim et al in Christian mythology, so I shall just have to be content with my present existence here on Earth.
As to others "remaining lost" better to find reason and make rational decisions based on the evidence, than to believe as a matter of blind faith, what one was indoctrinated with as a child. Some people outgrow the myths and legends of childhood, some do not. Although few people believe in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny and Santa Clause as they did as a child....somehow as adults many are happy to perpetuate the myths for their own children, knowing that it is a fraud. I suspect that same may also be true of some theists also in respect of their faith. If I am lost to a mythology that is not all that benign, I am happy not to be found.
Very sad, but those who have the Spirit of God and follow see things through God's eyes.........as there really are!
Those who believe that they have the Spirit of God and follow, see things through the eyes of the sacred text writers and the doctrines of their faith, as interpreted by their faith's leaders (past and present), to do otherwise often in the past one might have ended up on a heretic's pyre. Today...heresy in some faiths is still a capital offence. One day however, you may come to understand, that the only eyes that matter are Odin's...but as it is also a banning offence to preach exclusivity of truth....I suggest the possibility that the evidence, for Odin's eyes are as convincing as the evidence for the eyes of the Judeo / Christian god. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/19/2009 10:09:59 PM | RE Msg: 132 by chelloveck:
The reason people want to erase or disprove Christianity is that they don't want to hear they are doing something wrong. That is a broad generalisation that has no basis in fact. Although it suits the mindset of many christians to take that viewpoint, and it sits well with the theological propaganda of that faith, however the same charge may be made, and made just as unconvincingly against people of competing theistic faiths.
Sure, there are times when you might want to point out an inconsistency. But we're all inconsistent in some regard or another. If we were only pointing out problems to be truthful, then we'd point out all of everyone's inconsistencies, and then we'd be telling everyone that they were wrong, all the time, especially about our own inconsistencies. 90% of the world don't do that to everyone about all of their inconsistencies, and especially about their own inconsistencies. So most of the time, when we're pointing out an inconsistency in another, there is another motive behind it.
They know deep down it is right, but are in complete disobedience and don't want any reminders of their wrong choices. That is an unwarranted assumption....also without any basis in fact. There are many reasons why one may not give any credence to the christian...or indeed any other theistic faith position.
Also misery loves company, they want others to remain lost too This is a misconception, also happily put about by some christians and no doubt people of other faiths, that the non religious, the atheists etc are an unhappy miserable bunch, quite unable to function effectively without "god's grace" shining down upon them from the heavens above. I am no more "lost", with regard to christianity, than I am "lost" with regard to Islam, Jainism, Shintoism, Judaism, or animism etc....
As to others "remaining lost" better to find reason and make rational decisions based on the evidence, than to believe as a matter of blind faith, what one was indoctrinated with as a child. That is very, very true. But we have so much evidence, and Cantor showed that for n pieces of evidence, that we have 2^n possible conclusions. We have billions of pieces of evidence. That makes for 2^billions of possible conclusions. So really, to delve into the issue properly, and make rational decisions on the evidence, requires a tremendous deal of thought. As Edison pointed out: "There is no expedient to which a man will not go to avoid the labor of thinking". Very, very few people think very deeply about the evidence at all, not most theists, and not more atheists.
Some people outgrow the myths and legends of childhood, some do not. Although few people believe in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny and Santa Clause as they did as a child....somehow as adults many are happy to perpetuate the myths for their own children, knowing that it is a fraud. I suspect that same may also be true of some theists also in respect of their faith. If I am lost to a mythology that is not all that benign, I am happy not to be found. Many secular people believe in Free Market Capitalism, or Representational Democracy, despite their obvious and many failings. I suspect the same may be true of many atheists, that they believe in myths they were indoctrinated in as a child as well. I too agree that if I am lost to a mythology that is not all that benign, I am happy not to be found.
I suggest the possibility that the evidence, for Odin's eyes are as convincing as the evidence for the eyes of the Judeo / Christian god. You may be interested in knowing that many of the things said about the Norse beliefs, when abstracted from their Norse context, and taken in a generalised set of principles, are incredibly similar to the generalised principles that are believed by Jews, and are very similar to the generalised principles that are believed by quite a few denominations of Xianity. There is a lot more that is similar than different, when it comes down to the bare bones of it. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/19/2009 10:15:04 PM | | Gosh, athiests seem to be quite an angry and bitter people. I am content to let them be. They seem to take delight in bashing any that are religious. When I try to engage them in a civil discussion they either run or post more of their their anti-religious tripe. I would have so much more respect for one that can discuss why they do not believe in a higher power and can as well as listen to another discuss why they do believe. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:28:01 AM |
I'm just still trying to figure out why it seems so monumentally important to so many athiests on here to "convert" people to their way of thinking. Seems that if you were convinced you were right, you'd be content to let others be blissful in their ignorance. But there is never a sense of agreeing to disagree. It's always as if they must keep pressing until you see it their way.
Atheists of old were and are not interested in converting the public. "New atheists," (google is your friend ;), on the other hand, are interested in converting the public. New atheists are aggressive atheist evangelists. They are anti religion, anti theist, and are encouraged by Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, and Daniel Dennett. These men wrote books on how to get rid of religion and this is their agenda. These men encourage their "fans" to ridicule religion, Christians, Muslims, or those who believe in the God of Abraham, essentially. The new atheists are a different breed of animal because they hate quite intensely and profoundly, unlike the more "live and let live" type of atheist who isn't in anyone's face.
Yes, I do agree that these kind of fundamentalist atheists are radical and as annoying as those who attempt to shove their religion down other people's throats. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/20/2009 5:26:09 AM | | Many Atheists want to better the world. Religion is a lie and it is a lie that has hurt mankind. Many Atheists wish to better this and see converting people as a good place to start. It's is not like sunday morning TV with the Christians, but our numbers are bigger then they were and growing and we no longer have a fear in speaking up. There are lot that fear our message. The message is this "there is no god". Unlike some counties were you can be put to death for saying these words, here in the USA it is our right too say these words. Count the TV shows on cable devoted to spreading the Christian message, then count the shows devoted to spreading the Atheist message (what there are none lol); then count the countries were you can be put to death for saying there is no god or converting and becoming an Atheist. It is easy to see we have a long long way to go to make things equal. Some want us to be quiet, they fear us and our message,but they want the right to convert people and spread their beliefs. They don't say end all the sunday morning TV shows they say there is a god, but get mad when Richard Dawkins or others say there is not one. Consistency please. We are not asking to have "there is no god" put on our money, but lots of us want to see "in god we trust" taken off. Because that is not true at all we, would mean us all. Words like that are not only not true, but they shove religion down our throats. Consistency please! | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/20/2009 5:43:49 AM | The majority of Americans do trust in God and have for decades. You don't have the right, as atheists, to suppress people's religious views or do away with meaningful phrases that have been around for years that are historical.
Now certainly you have the right to shove your atheistic hate of religion down other people's throats because you are protected under our country's first ammendment, but you also need to understand that most moderate individuals in this country will find you to be a fanatical nutcase -- just like they do the fundamentalist religious right. Those who do not practice "live and let live" are radical and extreme and most people don't appreciate either. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/20/2009 7:18:39 AM | "The majority of Americans do trust in God and have for decades. You don't have the right, as atheists, to suppress people's religious views or do away with meaningful phrases that have been around for years that are historical. "
15% of Americans do not even believe in a god let alone trust in one, so saying "In God We Truest" is just a lie. To be "WE Trust" it would need to be every one and it is clear every one does not trust in god. Lots of us know there is no god! May be change it to "in god a majority believe in". See just because you believe in god does not mean you trust in a god. The 15% is getting bigger every year, because we will not be quiet any more. If it continues to trend the way it has, some day more Americans will believe there is no god and that is why you want us to be quiet. We will not be! | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/20/2009 1:00:03 PM | *takes a deep breath*
That's quite a sound summation of why many people put down a faith that is not their own.
Even if this were true, it doesn't address the the reasons given for why Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people? It's a completely different topic all together.
People say often that those who are most insulting of homosexuals, probably have homosexual tendencies themselves. The same can equally be said about those insulting of religion, or atheism.
You can say it all you want, it doesn't make it any more true than the guy down the street who says he's Jesus.
Yes. However, if you aren't threatened by another's position, then you are confident enough in your views to not need to have others agree with you
People's lives are threatened every day over religion. People's liberties are threatened in this country. In the last two pages alone - this has been my point in: Msg: 114, Msg: 118, Msg: 120 & Msg: 124. CountIbli makes similar points in Msg: 121 & Msg: 127. I'm sure there's more examples if I dig further back in this thread, however, do I need to? Anyone going to address the issues, or are you going to continue to side step them completely?
People say often that those who are most insulting of homosexuals, probably have homosexual tendencies themselves. The same can equally be said about those insulting of religion, or atheism.
The argument can be made that we have the same innate desire to understand out world. So what? How is this “cutting both ways”, and what's it got to do with the point that Christianity is hateful, bigoted, sexist and the influencing drive behind many many bloody wars, Catholic inquisitions, the persecution of scientists (Copernicus, Bruno, Galileo, Descartes, Newton, Halley, Darwin, Hubble, and Bertrand Russell ), the cessation of stem cell research, burning people (purportedly witches, and anyone comiting 'heresy') at the stake in the name of Jesus . All of which aren't mis-interpretations of the bible. The bible clearly instructs Christians to do these atrocities. I'll happily site this is scripture if anyone wants to dispute this.
But, as long as you are happy to say that others are entitled and correct to believe in their religion
They're entitled, they're not correct.
But there are many who do try to convince others who have found love and happiness with a partner, that they will be cheated on, and are better off single, just because they are envious of their happiness
What evidence do you have to support this conclusion (which has nothing to do with the post... again).
So really, to delve into the issue properly, and make rational decisions on the evidence, requires a tremendous deal of thought.
A requisite of Christianity is to have faith. If you have evidence to prove Christianity, that would negate faith, and therefore negate your ability to get into heaven (not that I think Christianity is the way to get to heaven – if heaven even exists). Interesting dichotomy isn't it?
Very, very few people think very deeply about the evidence at all, not most theists, and not more atheists.
Actually, according to Christianities flag ship pro-creationism advocates, the people in fields of study which require the most evaluation of the evidence (science / physics) are overwhelmingly becoming non-theists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmHN3JtyUXg
Many secular people believe in Free Market Capitalism, or Representational Democracy, despite their obvious and many failings.
What? Did you really just compare the belief in superstitious mythical icons (tooth fairy, the easter bunny and Santa Clause) to the belief in Free Market Capitalism, or Representational Democracy? Why?
Gosh, athiests seem to be quite an angry and bitter people.
In what context? This thread, IRL, your personal experiences?
I am content to let them be.
Are you? What are your thoughts on abortion, homosexual marriage, and the teaching of creationism (as a legitimate science), or biblical teachings in schools?
They seem to take delight in bashing any that are religious.
I don't recall any bashing on this thread. Can you site a specific example?
When I try to engage them in a civil discussion they either run or post more of their their anti-religious tripe.
By definition, engaging someone in a discussion means there's dialogue. If the topic of a particular dialogue is theism vs non theism, doesn't it stand to reason one person would be posting their theistic tripe, and the other person would be posting their non theistic tripe?
I would have so much more respect for one that can discuss why they do not believe in a higher power and can as well as listen to another discuss why they do believe.
Agreed. The irony here is we've clearly stated (on several occasions) our evidence for: Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?, and you've not addressed any of it. Which means you've chose to not be part of the discussion. Completely off topic dialogue = yes. Discussion = fail.
Atheists of old were and are not interested in converting the public.
Do you understand your history books? You do understand heretics (atheists are heretics) have been outcast, tortured & killed for not holding the same beliefs as religious people right? You do understand Science & Atheism are relative newcomers to the scene right?
The new atheists are a different breed of animal because they hate quite intensely and profoundly
I'm irritated that I see liberties being stripped from my fellow Americans. I'm irritated that Churches insist on trying to use tax dollars to teach pseudoscience in science classes. I don't intensely hate Christians. I will stand up for people's right to marry, just as I will stand up for your right to choose your faith. The difference here is I'm trying to live in a country where both of you can choose your own paths – Christians are trying to legislate morality. Apparently they believe God can give free will, and Christians can take it away. Interesting that you can be legally put to death in many countries for making the statement, “there is no god.”. In what country can you proclaim your faith in God, and be killed by the state for it?
You don't have the right, as atheists, to suppress people's religious views or do away with meaningful phrases that have been around for years that are historical.
Give me an example of where atheists are doing this. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/20/2009 2:30:21 PM | | My what a lively debate. Good to see only a few are resorting to simple minded name calling and resorting to calling people with dissenting opinions hatters or full of bitterness. That is just sad when posters do that, but I am not suprised as I see people doing stuff like that offten. May be I get out more then some. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/20/2009 3:07:01 PM | Fear makes people angry. They then put their anger towards those that believe. People that believe often seem to be happier and have a more joyful life than those that don't. They attack those that believe because they are mad because they want to believe but won't allow themselves. They feel that Christians all want to convert them. That all Christians are sheep and believe exactly the same things. They believe Christians all must interpret the Bible as they believe they were told it to mean (yeah, if they actually read it and interpreted it for themselves, it might burn their hands... ), although we all know how many different hands and different translations the Bible has had in the zillion years and of course it doesn't even contain all the "books" that were written. So then they say that we aren't true Christians if we don't believe as they think we should...gahhhh
I hate people lumping everyone together no matter what it is. It is rare I admit that I am a Reverend because I don't fit the mold people think I should be. I really don't lump non-Christians together, this post sounds that way, but I really only speak about some zealots. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/20/2009 3:31:36 PM | "People that believe often seem to be happier and have a more joyful life than those that don't. "
Did you know the higher your IQ and/or the more educated the person the less likely they are to believe in god. Google it if you like it is a fact. Also in the USA none believes are under represented in our nations jails, they don't go to jail as much as chistians do. Again if you want to check google it. I think it is the none believers that are happier. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/20/2009 6:27:32 PM | And you dear sir can google how many scientist believe in a higher power. I don't recall when I joined Mensa being asked what my beliefs were, so yeah, I can google something, but that isn't an actual study; whereas, scientists' beliefs have had actual studies...
As far as jails goes, your sentence
USA none believes are under represented in our nations jails obviously is grammatically incorrect and is senseless.
I can tell you my knowledge of prisons, that men and women that find Jesus there are model prisoners and those that don't cause more problems.
I am guessing you mean non-believers, now that I reread your comments. None believers means no one believes...
You might try using the quote function, you just have to use brackets [ and ] around the word quote at the begining and the back slash before the word quote at the end of your quote. You can email me if you don't understand how to do it and I will try to explain it to you. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/20/2009 7:07:36 PM | Whoa hold the fort....
Happiness is subjective>> IMO we cannot judge someone else' s external expression of their internal state by our own internal state.
As far as statistics go they are not facts they are numbers... one must uncover the facts beneath the numbers.. statistics can be manipulated.. most college graduates with a 4 year degree in Science easily understand that these statistics mean nothing by themselves. | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/20/2009 9:25:00 PM |
That all Christians are sheep and believe exactly the same things.
Sorry, Reverend, but that is a sentence fragment.
And you dear sir can google how many scientist believe in a higher power.
Whoops! Somebody forgot a couple of commas and an ess!
As far as jails goes, your sentence USA none believes are under represented in our nations jails obviously is grammatically incorrect and is senseless.
"Jails goes" is nice, too.
Are you serious?!? Did you really not know what he meant? He also misspelled Christian, by the way, but that doesn't mean his opinion matters any less than a Mensa member's does. Don't we all already argue enough without dragging grammar into it? | |
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| Why do Non-Christians feel the need to press their anti-religous belief's on people?
Posted: 10/20/2009 11:23:36 PM |
Gosh, athiests seem to be quite an angry and bitter people. I am content to let them be.
Really? When you go into the voting booth do you leave your religion behind?
They seem to take delight in bashing any that are religious.
It was the religious who started this culture war. Now you whine because we're beating you.
When I try to engage them in a civil discussion they either run or post more of their their anti-religious tripe. I would have so much more respect for one that can discuss why they do not believe in a higher power and can as well as listen to another discuss why they do believe.
Funny, my experience is that Theists (usually Christians and Muslims) are too busy telling us that we're going to Hell and have no morals to have a civil discussion. But if you want a civil discussion I'm game. Let me start with two simple questions:
1) What precisely do you mean by "higher power" (e.g. what properties does it have and what testable predictions does the Higher Power Hypothesis make)?
2) What objective evidence do you have that this Higher Power exists? | |
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