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Posted: 6/26/2006 12:01:57 PM | | Solarwind: i totaly agree with you everyone should be treated equal regardless of their nationality. i don't agree with the 'First nations' put in front of our names or bands it sounds more like a statement because we were never the first ones born on this earth at least i don't think so. i don't like the idea that they try to put us in catogories it is not fair to anyone else and we get it too when it comes to taxes because we are status,but we do pay taxes when we go shopping or anywhere else for that matter. sometimes people look at us like we don't belong and we don't deserve to have tax exempt as its called. because not everything you can get access to is on reserve. didn't mean to go off track of the subject but yes we were robbed of our culture our language and our innocence by being subjected to the residential schools. but it did not only happen to us'natives' it happened to everyone whether it was emtional abuse or sexual abuse,or physical abuse. | |
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Posted: 6/27/2006 12:49:11 AM | Part of that statement was self serving in that I don't believe in giving money outright for problems. This country/world has been throwing money at problems for a long time, when it is attention, recognition and people help that is required.
I do believe the goverment should formerly apologize and look closely at each individual regarding compensation. For a conceptual example, a family of 7 kids, 3 physically handicapped. It is eronous to think that the same compensation for each will do, each will have varying degrees of need... and I do speak of need.
I also believe many of the problems and stigmitizations facing them have been relieved of their power, but it's a whole different step to knock those walls down for the people that still think they are there.
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Posted: 7/4/2006 4:43:54 PM | | I suppose not everyone wants to deal with the residential school issue right now, because of all the bad stuff that happened within the residential school. I remember when i was in the alberni residential school they read our out going letters and read our incoming letters as well. We actually got blamed for things that we didn't do and we got a really thick strap used on our hands. I spend a lot of time trying to run away and i would tell the cops why are you bringing me back i will only run away. Mind you i never got sexually abused at the residential school but it happened at right at home. And there was not any body at the time that was going to go out of their way to help you not even your own relatives. So i was almost 19 when i left my home town trying to get away from all the phyisical abuse and sexual abuse and emotional abuse as well. oops sorry i kind of went of track but when i left home i just left with what my daughter had on and what i had on. because i knew that i had to start all over again and that was a really hard decision that i had to make. | |
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Posted: 7/24/2006 11:25:29 AM | | Well i thought i would bring this back out again because it is being brought out in another thread,and before you know it ends up really long. but anyway it's still in the courts,they are doing each reserve at different times which is only right. you know i was not going to bother with the compensation,i got encouraged to go ahead with it and i am not doing it for me i am doing for my grandchildren. if and ever if i do recieve anything i am just going to put it in a trust fund for them. there was a lot of them who had worse then i did but that does not change the fact that i was in the residential school. i am just thankful that my kids or grandchildren don't have to go trough that kind of school. | |
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Posted: 7/24/2006 12:01:30 PM | I've stayed out of this thread because I'm not sure I have the credibility to comment. I do have a question though:
I was lucky. I graduated from a school in a very small town. My graduating class was the first and last to be large enough to have grade 12; before and after kids as young as grade 10 had to go live in a residential type environment to go to school. Some of the kids were native, most weren't. Would the native kids be eligible for compensation? Not looking to minimize the issue, I really am curious about this. | |
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Posted: 7/24/2006 12:23:06 PM | halftimedad...yes the native kids would be eligible for compensation.
After i was in the residential school i had to live with white folks and yes alot of them took us in cause they were making money and i got tired of it so i guit school and never graduated school. by saying this i hope you don't get offended and i have kicked myself ever since for quiting and i was doing so good in school. | |
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Posted: 7/24/2006 2:01:50 PM | | Well now that seems weird to me. Native kids were a minority of the kids that had to leave in order to go to school; everybody was treated the same; how come they get compensation when none of the other kids do? | |
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Posted: 7/24/2006 3:06:20 PM | | halftimedad... Sorry i don't know how to answer that question, i only know what i have learned for the last year. like i said earlier i was not even going to bother i am only doing this for my grandchildren. maybe you should look into it yourself cause i have no idea. all i know is what they are doing for first nations is what we are called now and don't know why it got changed. sorry i couldn't give you more information did you mean where you attended was a residential school. | |
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Posted: 7/24/2006 5:56:40 PM | Respect is a fluid, slight amphorous thing, it is hard to understand sometimes. Funny how it is that people in the safety and confort of their own homes thanks to the Internet, believe respect is something you can put on for show. I do that too sometimes, with women. But politics intersection with the traditional cultural beliefs of the natives has taken a u-turn in the last 50 years and I can see it will be a long road back to first letting the feeling of pride absorb into our individual cultural identities so as to re-invigorate enough to allow us to withstand further onslaughts that may continue in the future further.. from this still entrenched belief in some people that they know better. A feeling of pride and ownership in owning ones person, knowing where one comes from, what ones ancestors sacrificed, what they endured can only lead to healthy felings of self worth and self esteem. A healthier aboriginal climate and population means an healthier Canada!
And positive felings about ones self are inextricably linked to health and well being.
Did you know at one time it was illegal to seel alcohol to natives? Did people obey the rule of law? Of course not! Did the authorities seek to enforce the law and punish those who broke it? Of course not. All these little small smarting factors seem delineated and
ignored even though they have played an important part in destroying an important part of the cultural fabric of the country. We are now paying the bill! With rampant unemployment, alcoholism, suicide rates, glue sniffing, AIDS, on and on and on...
there are some people who believe that due to their race, thier genes, their manifested destiny , whatever....that their superiority...whether its moral or physical, intellectual or
any other form of superiority, that this gives them carte blanche to justify or rationalize their actions...
These are the facts: a corporation called Hudsons Bay founded Canada, was at war with a different company called the Northwestern Company and this land supplied Europe with all the furs she could handle until the fur population was decimated, and then with the War of 1812 over with, no furs left...there was no "use" for the natives. | |
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Posted: 7/25/2006 12:47:20 AM | My mother and her brother and sisters went to a residential school. One aunt is a nurse and my uncle a doctor. My mom has not lived on a reserve since and neither have her brother or sisters. I believe my grandmother in her wisdom knew that you have to go along with the times and that living the traditional way was just not going to work. I have native blood and
go to powows and understand some of my heritage, but the systematic approach to giving
money to reserves as compensation has only made a new heritage to natives. One of people
getting money for free and not earning it. That leave plenty of time for alcohol and drug abuse which is sadly rampant on reserves. Guess what... nobody alive did anything wrong to you, the only wrong is that native people keep asking for money and not earning it,thereby not gaining the pride that comes from working for a living. I know this does not speak for all natives,many of my friends function well in western society,but the only ones we hear from are the ones who want to continue down the path of reliance. Flanagan is right, let's get off
this we are owed B.S and get on with gaining our pride back. We can still have our culture as most immigrants have kept theirs coming here but we have to get back our pride. | |
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Posted: 7/25/2006 3:15:01 AM | Youre not addressing root causes. Did your relatives emerge unscathed or something? Or do you jsut really want to drive the point home that some people were treated better at the schools than others? Its well known by now that kids who adapted well, even to the point of 'ratting out' fellow students for speaking the Mother language, were treated and rewarded well.
You claim to have native heritage and yet you have embedded right in your own repsonse an Us vs Them mentality. For starters, what your saying is jsut the old song and dance routine, and in many ways I am guilty of this, too. But things are bound to change. Not all reserves are the same. I would say every reserve may have a drug problem just like every city has a drug problem, its up to the community to ativate itself and attack it from any angle. If that means re-educating and re-claiming pride in the process about maintaing a strong cultural identity then so be it. Healing takes time, it doesnt take place overnight (or does it really?)...you take in the combinative factors of restricting natives to reserves, limiting legal rights, assaulting religious and spiritual practices.............lets reduce it to a minimalist argument...for what? You think about what we as a country are doing overseas, our soldiers...and think about how our own indigenous peole were treated and come up with some solid arguments as to why our native peoples dont deserve respect like they have never had it before. Respect is not just a word that can be bandied about and inserted for ones own purposes..it has to be incorporated into ones attitude and way of life and cultivated and practiced. So many people tihnk they can go about saying they know about respect when really it just becomes a token expression after that. | |
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Posted: 7/25/2006 5:13:04 AM | ^^
Thanks for that, Summer Glow.
I haven't posted on this thread for ages as it seemed I was swimming upstream for most of the discussion. All I heard was that we were a "drain" on society and that we deserve no special treatment. My arguement all along was that we are trying to recover. Native people desperately would love to be respected as peers, and recognised as a people who have something valuable to add. As indigenous peoples, we should be recognised as a national treasure, a nation of people who add to the richness of Canada. Sadly, we are not, but I do forsee a day when we will be accepted as equals, we will contribute as a whole in a positive way and we will be given the opportunity to move on in this millennium in a positive "Native" way. (and yes, I have come to believe we do think differently)
Cheers everyone, Raven | |
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Posted: 7/30/2006 5:01:44 AM | | you know what? You dont know a thing! I am a product of what happened, my mom(RIP) knew how it was. I wouldn't be this way if it wasn't, I am a proud Native, even if I am poor, I am happy in my heart. Compensation isn't even worth it. I am sad yet I am good!!!!! | |
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Posted: 7/30/2006 5:03:04 AM | you know what? You dont know a thing! I am a product of what happened, my mom(RIP) knew how it was. I wouldn't be this way if it wasn't, I am a proud Native, even if I am poor, I am happy in my heart. Compensation isn't even worth it. I am sad yet I am good!!!!!
I am Bee,fiend of boy oy boy, chef | |
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TFC_C
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Joined: 3/30/2007
Msg: 90 | |
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Posted: 4/6/2007 3:04:11 AM | She:kon
I am 63 years old - male and I am Onkwehone:we / Haudenosaunee. A Tuscarora of the Six Nations of the Grand River Territory. My sage advice is to try and become of one mind, a good mind and a good heart and put an end to this constant bickering. We are our own worst enemies. You guys can argue until you are blue in the face. You clearly have a little knowledge and think you have the answers. Knowledge (a lot, or a little), without wisdom simply is not knowledge. Arguing amongst yourselves denigrates the very heritage you claim you are so proud of. The postings I have seen here clearly show that we are as divided as always and can see no way to reach a consensus which, is the way of the Original Peoples. Respect and honour all people, all things and all gifts from Creator.
BoyOboyChef, I have no desire to put you down or cause you discomfort. But, for you to say the things you say, you need to hit the books and learn a hell of a lot more than the limited knowledge you have displayed in this forum. You also must remove the anger in your heart. Better still, visit and spend a lot of time with village elders. Learn some traditional ways but in any case . . . . listen. The saying goes like this; "Silence, before your tongue makes you deaf." You would do well in heeding this advice. When you have learned, perhaps then you will have something to say that I wish to read. I wish you well.
Nia:wen
Ona
Karonerora:kwe | |
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Posted: 4/7/2007 7:27:03 AM | I just wonder, "How can a person/group/government make a SINCERE apology for something they - personally- had no part in doing?" Likewise, i guess no one should expect thanks for what their ancestors that cared, helped, and saved many from abuse and starvation did, either...
And, I just hope the monies given to the older victims of residential schools does not cause them harm, because ... nevermind... anything a person says about what they see happening today, is always taken as racist remarks anyway...
Clearly, history is subject to interpretation and the "facts" vary ... depending on what literature one reads - and how one interprets the original treaties, etc. I don't think many are 'misinformed' ... they just are all getting their information from a variety of sources. yna6 obviously has read similar material to what i did....
But, I guess all we can do is hope for some type of resolution and peace...but i don't expect i'll see it in my lifetime... | |
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Posted: 4/7/2007 1:47:05 PM | I read some posts on this , I work with some residential school survivors ,some here not informed enough about the subject both the churches and canadian government should make ammends for the damage they have done to thousands of natives.
Where many were sexually ,physically and mentally abused.
The stories I have been told would make you sick, my mother and father were in resdidentail school ,my mother had her hand tied to the chair forcing her to write right handed as she was born left handed and told that being lefted handed was evil.
people getting slapped across the face for speaking there language, guys fearfull at night scared of the priest or staff worker sneaking into there rooms in the night forcing them to do things I won`t mention here.
The compensation they will recieve good to a point but also not good as many will die from there addictions.
I want to compare something here an islamic man picked up and sent to a different country and alleges he gets tortured and get compensated by the canadian gov. he spent as he says one year in prison in a foriegn country but Canada compensates him over 10 million, he was in another country , yet natives were taken from there own homes forced to go to the residential schools were many were abused for years and all they get are a few thousand dollars.
I work with survivors each day I know the stories no amount will take away the hurt inside them, it will take time for the inner healing if you can reach them before it`s to late each year many die killing themselves slowly using addictions. | |
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Posted: 4/7/2007 2:04:23 PM | Evil things were done in the residential schools. But the right handed bias was pretty much standard fare. My father had the same experience at, I'm sure, the same time. Not in a residential school. Let's not equate all the bad things with the residential school experience.
And as I pointed out earlier, it was not restricted to natives. It was seen as the way to provide education when there weren't sufficient numbers to have a school. I'm not trying to minimize the bad things that happened - the school for the deaf here in Vancouver was a hotbed of abuse - but not every person who attended one had a bad experience, and not all native problems can be attributed to the native school experience. Right now there are band councils that are aiding abuses that easily the equivalent of the worst of the abuses in the residential schools. | |
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Posted: 4/7/2007 2:54:09 PM | Halftime,
Again you missed the point....
Native people WERE singled out. As a result of THREE , provable, documented attempts to rid the Canadian government of the "Indian problem".
God, can you people read?
Raven | |
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Posted: 4/7/2007 4:02:08 PM | Way back in the late 1800`s early 1900`s the government made the indian act and in it stating that native indian parents must send there children to the residential school or face the fine of $2.00 or several months in jail if you did not comply with the Indian act.
These children went not because they were orphans or had bad parents but because the government gave them no choice, the government meant well but much damage was done , from the church run schools.
there probably were whites in residential schools of a different kind most likely orphaned kids but natives were forced to go that`s the difference .
The residential school was run very similar to youth detention ,kids were sent the only crime was being born indian. | |
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Posted: 4/7/2007 5:12:11 PM | What happened was wrong. Sure but other than compensation to the INDIVIDUALS dierectly affected what really is the contention here. And if any white kids were infact mistreated in the same manner why not compensate them equally?
So long as you look at it as "an Indian affair" you first lose credibility right off the start (sorry it is a huma affair a native is no better or worse than anyone else except as determined by WHAT they do with their life), and secondly, you actually alienate those that would otherwise have been allies.
Way back from page one ..... something about the current "natives" not being the first occupants of this land. Well if it isn't possible that this is really the case, why are natives up in arms trying to block information about a caucasian skeleton found there that pre-dates the migration across the isthmus? Would this affect any legitimate claims? I can't see how. Further if you look at the world before continemt drift, which really is more logical?
That there may well have been caucasians in north america, or africans in south america. Much as aboriginal australians share many traits associated with africans while their nearest neighbours (Maori) are far more similar to polynesians.
Or these were 2 completely uninhabited landmasses?
Unfortunately until 2 things happen I doubt we'll see satisfactory resolution to most greivances native groups have. 1 Forgoing special treatment. One set of rules for everyone. And 2 an alternative to the reservation system, a way to include natives in the mainstream while addressing concerns about cultural loss (perhaps abolish reserves outright and make native culture a mandatory course in all public schools?)
And really isn't the church more responsible for the mistreatment that occurred? | |
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Posted: 4/7/2007 6:05:47 PM | The Church was used as the instrument under the guise of religion and bringing these heathens to the correct way of thinking.
First occupants or not, still a strawman argument and deserves the contempt of such. The fact of the matter is an entire race was singled out due to inconvenience. | |
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Posted: 4/7/2007 6:12:42 PM | A few decades ago both the churches and government took resposibility for the things that were done but that`s as far as it went for a long time.
The residential schools we are talking about here are the native residential schools that were in service for some forty years throughout canada.
Remember what I said earlier the natives had no choice in the matter of the residential schools back in the early times the parents faced fines or jail if they did not send there kids to residential schools. | |
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Posted: 4/7/2007 8:37:54 PM | Seems the Quebec Gov't does much the same thing today.....the kids must attend a French school...learn the French language, if their mother was French....no choice in the matter, although more and more parents want their kids in English schools.
There is a lot to be said for an decent education...that can be used to function in todays society. Most of the rest is simply history or has cultural aspects that can be taught much like many Europeans have taught their kids, at their own expense, and not that of the taxpayer. | |
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Posted: 6/16/2007 11:37:06 PM | This thread makes me want to weep. First for the original situation, and then all the defenses of the truly ignorant for their continued bias. The endless pleas I've heard all of my life that "I didn't do it (whatever it was) therefore, I shouldn't have to pay." The point was, and is, that those who took violently and unethically from races and genders they felt superior to benefited themselves, and their progeny (that's you, Bunky), and those benefits continue to this minute.
Japan does not wish to apologize to the Korean "comfort women" it enslaved, nor to the Chinese civilians it slaughtered. The American government does not wish to apologize for its treatment of slaves, nor natives. Big business/government/industry does not wish to allow women equal pay for equal work. Let's not talk of what Australia did to its aborigines. Germany has to some extent stood up for its part in the holocaust. Poland has not. The list seems endless, and we seem helpless to progress towards changing ourselves into any kind of loving entities.
What is so very hard to understand about: We are all one? What we do to others we do to our own souls, and so it has always been.
In the end, it may be a moot point: Mother is about to shake us all off. The "superior" conquering cultures are killing her, and I think she'll not tolerate us very much longer.
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