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 Author Thread: Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
 bob0colo

Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 26
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Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/23/2006 8:15:19 PM
A janitor from the VA takes home a laptop and loses 26.5 MILLION , Names, Ssnb's, Date of birth's, Wife's info and childerns info....

We a blessed with the worst goverment money can buy... the VA had be reprimanded about security many times over several years...


.
 VioletSkye

Joined: 1/3/2006
Msg: 27
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Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/23/2006 9:43:10 PM

A janitor from the VA takes home a laptop and loses 26.5 MILLION , Names, Ssnb's, Date of birth's, Wife's info and childerns info....

We a blessed with the worst goverment money can buy... the VA had be reprimanded about security many times over several years...



holy smokes, Bob

Do you have a link about this?
 bob0colo

Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 28
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/24/2006 5:05:21 AM
Sorry i lied he wasnt a janitor...still think we have the worst Goverment money can buy.....This happened early in the month...Cover up? It does include family data... childern, wife


====================================
Personal data of 26.5 million US veterans stolen

Personal information on 26.5 million US veterans has been stolen from an employee of the Department of Veterans Affairs who took the data home without authorization, exposing them to possible identity theft, the department said on Monday.

The computer records included names, social security numbers and dates of birth for the military veterans and some spouses, the department said. The electronic data related to everyone discharged from the military since 1975, Veterans Affairs' Secretary Jim Nicholson said.

Lawmakers and veterans' advocates expressed alarm that the government failed to safeguard the data, which could be used in credit card fraud and other crimes.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said "we have no reason to believe at this time" that the data has been exploited for identity theft.

"We are going to send out an individual notification letter to every veteran to the extent possible," warning them of the risk of identity theft, Nicholson told reporters by telephone.

Nicholson said the employee, a career data analyst and not a political appointee or senior official, has been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.

The department said the theft of equipment containing the records from the employee's home took place this month. Nicholson declined to identify the employee, the location of the burglary or how long the person had the data at his home.

The FBI said the theft occurred in the Maryland area and its Baltimore field office has been looking into the matter since it was referred to the agency last week.

'Random burglary'

"They believe that this was a random burglary and not targeted at this data," Nicholson said, adding that there had been a series of burglaries in that community. "It's highly probable that they do not know what they have," he added.

Nicholson advised veterans to monitor their credit card and banking transactions and be alert for anything suspicious.

He said the employee had access to the data as part of a project but "took home a considerable amount of electronic data from the VA which he was not authorized to do."

Nicholson said there is no indication the employee intended to do any wrong beyond improperly taking the material home. No medical records and no financial information was compromised, he said, though the data included information on some veterans' physical disabilities.

Identity theft, or obtaining personal or financial information about someone else to make transactions in that person's name, has mushroomed with the growth of the Internet and electronic business.

"We look to VA's executive management to hold everybody accountable who was involved. And accountability we define as immediate termination," said Bob Wallace, executive director of the Washington office of the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

Senate Veterans Affairs Committee Chairman Larry Craig, an Idaho Republican, said he was alarmed the department had "no security or checks or balances" for protecting the data.

"I hope this administration will send an alert out to all of its agencies to take a serious look at how they are handling all of its data," Craig said in a telephone interview.

The government is setting up a toll-free number for veterans to call if they notice anything suspicious, as well as putting information on a government website, www.firstgov.gov.
 VioletSkye

Joined: 1/3/2006
Msg: 29
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Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/24/2006 9:31:10 AM
Wow, thank you for this, Bob! I'm going to share this with others.

How does everyone feel about microchips in their running shoes and now where I am, microchips in our drivers lincense? Soon to come to an area near you!
 MMMBaby!

Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 30
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/24/2006 11:58:42 AM
What about the "On Star" I think it is called... Someone somewhere knows where your vehicle is at all times... Can unlock/lock your doors, disable the engine...
Big Brother is watching you...
At one point someone had even proposed fingerprinting and even DNA sampling each and every infant born, under the guise of being able to find and identify them easier/faster if they are abducted...

Scary sh*t!!
 bob0colo

Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 31
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/24/2006 5:58:25 PM
The pres big immigration speech spoke of bio-metric ID's?????????????

Maybe we should add tattoo's with the Social Security Numbers..

preferred on the left arm...

.
 magicfingers1

Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 32
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/24/2006 6:17:47 PM
besides the so sweet ability to unlock your car for you in the event of being locked out. Onstar maintains a complete record of all ignitions. miles driven, speed attained during the trip and can be outfited to map the route from start to finish. Internal GPS locators are standard equipment.In the (near) future when gas rationing becomes mandatory, how convenient it will be for big brother to TURN YOU OFF on certain days, or prescribe strict hours of driving and limits on mileage.
Can't you just see it? you hop in your car, late for work and forgot.... it's no drive day for citizen zy1-334....the sweetly modulated computer voice says "sorry zy1-334 this is your Conserve for Freedom day....it is twenty-three hours and fifty-four minutes until your vehicle will start......any attempt to damage or inactivate the OnStar system will destoy your electrical
system and will result in charges being filed under the Conserve for Freedom Act....have a very nice day!
 VioletSkye

Joined: 1/3/2006
Msg: 33
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/24/2006 7:13:57 PM
MMMBaby! & Magicfingers1... Holy smokes, I never even thought of that!


besides the so sweet ability to unlock your car for you in the event of being locked out. Onstar maintains a complete record of all ignitions. miles driven, speed attained during the trip and can be outfited to map the route from start to finish. Internal GPS locators are standard equipment.In the (near) future when gas rationing becomes mandatory, how convenient it will be for big brother to TURN YOU OFF on certain days, or prescribe strict hours of driving and limits on mileage.
Can't you just see it? you hop in your car, late for work and forgot.... it's no drive day for citizen zy1-334....the sweetly modulated computer voice says "sorry zy1-334 this is your Conserve for Freedom day....it is twenty-three hours and fifty-four minutes until your vehicle will start......any attempt to damage or inactivate the OnStar system will destoy your electrical
system and will result in charges being filed under the Conserve for Freedom Act....have a very nice day!
Eeek!


First we were destined to be known by numbers, now we have gadgets and microchips to tell everyone where we are and what we're doing!
 VioletSkye

Joined: 1/3/2006
Msg: 34
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Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/27/2006 10:01:28 PM
Isn't this interesting? Oh my...



http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6077654.html


Quote:
U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and FBI Director Robert Mueller on Friday urged telecommunications officials to record their customers' Internet activities, CNET News.com has learned.

In a private meeting with industry representatives, Gonzales, Mueller and other senior members of the Justice Department said Internet service providers should retain subscriber information and network data for two years, according to two sources familiar with the discussion who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The closed-door meeting at the Justice Department, which Gonzales had requested, according to the sources, comes as the idea of legally mandated data retention has become popular on Capitol Hill and inside the Bush administration. Supporters of the idea say it will help prosecutions of child pornography because in many cases, logs are deleted during the routine course of business.

In a speech last month at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, Gonzales said that Internet providers must retain records for a "reasonable amount of time."

"I will reach out personally to the CEOs of the leading service providers and to other industry leaders," Gonzales said. "Record retention by Internet service providers consistent with the legitimate privacy rights of Americans is an issue that must be addressed."

Until Gonzales' speech, the Bush administration had generally opposed laws requiring data retention, saying it had "serious reservations" (click for PDF) about them. But after the European Parliament last December approved such a requirement for Internet, telephone and voice over Internet Protocol providers, top administration officials began talking about the practice more favorably.

During Friday's meeting, Justice Department officials passed around pixellated (that is, slightly obscured) photographs of child pornography to emphasize the lurid nature of the crimes police are trying to prevent, according to one source.

A Justice Department spokesman familiar with the administration's stand on data retention was in meetings on Friday and unavailable for comment, a department representative said.

Privacy advocates have been alarmed by the idea of legally mandated data retention, saying that, while child exploitation may be the justification today, those records would be available in all kinds of criminal and civil suits--including terrorism, tax evasion, drug, and even divorce cases.

It was not immediately clear what Gonzales and Mueller meant by suggesting that network data be retained. One possibility is requiring Internet providers to record the Internet addresses their customers are temporarily assigned. A more extensive mandate would require companies to keep track of e-mail messages sent, Web pages visited and perhaps even instant-messaging correspondents.

'Preservation' vs. 'retention'
Two proposals to mandate data retention have surfaced in the U.S. Congress. One, backed by Rep. Diana DeGette, a Colorado Democrat, says that any Internet service that "enables users to access content" must permanently retain records that would permit police to identify each user. The records could only be discarded at least one year after the user's account was closed.

The other was drafted by aides to Wisconsin Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, a close ally of President Bush. Sensenbrenner said through a spokesman last week, though, that his proposal is on hold because "our committee's agenda is tremendously overcrowded already."

At the moment, Internet service providers typically discard any log file that's no longer required for business reasons such as network monitoring, fraud prevention or billing disputes. Companies do, however, alter that general rule when contacted by police performing an investigation--a practice called data preservation.

A 1996 federal law called the Electronic Communication Transactional Records Act regulates data preservation. It requires Internet providers to retain any "record" in their possession for 90 days "upon the request of a governmental entity."

Because Internet addresses remain a relatively scarce commodity, ISPs tend to allocate them to customers from a pool based on whether a computer is in use at the time. (Two standard techniques used are the Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol and Point-to-Point Protocol over Ethernet.)

In addition, Internet providers are required by another federal law to report child pornography sightings to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, which is in turn charged with forwarding that report to the appropriate police agency.

When adopting its data retention rules, the European Parliament approved U.K.-backed requirements, saying that communications providers in its 25 member countries--several of which had enacted their own data retention laws already--must retain customer data for a minimum of six months and a maximum of two years.

The Europe-wide requirement applies to a wide variety of "traffic" and "location" data, including the identities of the customers' correspondents; the date, time and duration of phone calls, voice over Internet Protocol calls or e-mail messages; and the location of the device used for the communications. But the "content" of the communications is not supposed to be retained. The rules are expected to take effect in 2008.



One more....


http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/05/24/D8HQE6B80.html

Quote:
NYC Mayor Advocates U.S. Worker Database



By SARA KUGLER
Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK

Republican Mayor Michael Bloomberg thrust himself into the national immigration debate Wednesday, advocating a plan that would establish a DNA or fingerprint database to track and verify all legal U.S. workers.

The mayor also said elements of the legislation moving through Congress are ridiculous and said lawmakers who want to deport all illegal immigrants are living in a "fantasy."

In an editorial for The Wall Street Journal and two nationally televised interviews, the mayor reiterated his long-standing belief that the 12 million undocumented immigrants in the United States should be given the opportunity for citizenship, saying that deporting them is impossible and would devastate the economy.

Aides said Bloomberg believes his views are relevant because he has a rare perspective as a former businessman who ran a company for two decades before he became mayor, in charge of enforcing the laws in a city with an estimated half-million illegal immigrants. They said that the editorial was his idea and that CNN and Fox News approached him to discuss his views on the air.

In the article and on air, Bloomberg slammed lawmakers who want to deport all illegal immigrants, saying on Fox News that "they are living in a fantasy world."

Asked in that interview whether his opinions put him at odds with his political party, the mayor, a former Democrat, shot back: "With which party?

"I'm not a partisan guy," Bloomberg said. "I am a mayor who has to deal with 500,000 people who are integral to our economy but are undocumented."

Bloomberg compared his proposed federal identification database to the Social Security card, insisting that such a system would not violate citizens' privacy and was not a civil liberties issue.

"You don't have to work _ but if you want to work for a company you have to have a Social Security card," he said. "The difference is, in the day and age when everybody's got a PC on their desk with Photoshop that can replicate anything, it's become a joke."

The mayor said DNA and fingerprint technology could be used to create a worker ID database that will "uniquely identify the person" applying for a job, ensuring that cards are not illegally transferred or forged.

Donna Lieberman, director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, said a DNA or fingerprint database "doesn't sound like the free society we think we're living in."

"It will inevitably be used not just by employers but by law enforcement, government agencies, schools and all over the private sector," she said.
 Dix

Joined: 7/24/2004
Msg: 35
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/27/2006 10:15:38 PM
I wonder how the 3000 people whose only crime was showing up for work on September 11, 2001 are enjoying their right to privacy?


And when a man sticks a gun in your face, you got two choices. You can die, or you can kill the mother****er. - Sam Elliot as Wade Garrett from the movie "Road House"
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 36
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Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/28/2006 3:28:27 AM
I wonder how the 3000 people whose only crime was showing up for work on September 11, 2001 are enjoying their right to privacy?


Well, it seems like this administration is certainly enjoying theirs.


Since the tragedy of September 11, this administration has
effectively shut down inquiry after inquiry:

In November 2001, energy companies were planning a natural gas
pipeline through the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia. Local citizens,
led by former U.S. Army Ranger Joseph McCormick, asked the Federal
Energy Regulatory Commission for a map of the planned pipeline. These
citizens weren't being nosy--they wanted to know if a large new
pipeline for natural gas would be going through their backyards. FERC
denied the citizens' request in the name of national security, even
though this type of information had been public before 9/11. Clearly,
national security concerns are legitimate. But without knowledge of the
pipeline's location, how could these citizens defend their property?
Joseph McCormick put it bluntly: ``There certainly is a balance,'' he
said. ``It's about people's right to use the information of an open
http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2005/s072705.htmlsociety to protect their rights.''

In the fall of 2002, the chemical compound perchlorate was found in
the water supply of Aberdeen, Maryland--near the Army's famous Aberdeen
Proving Ground. Perchlorate is a main ingredient of rocket fuel. It
also stunts the metabolism and brain growth of newborns. A group of
citizens organized, and worked with the Army to protect their drinking
water from further contamination. But a few months later, the Army
began censoring maps and information that would help determine which
areas were contaminated, supposedly in the interest of national
security--if citizens could find out where the water was contaminated,
then terrorists could find it too. The head of the citizens' group was
a 20-year army veteran. His water well was only a mile and a half away
from the proving ground. ``It's an abuse of power,'' he said. ``The
government has to be transparent.''

Even Members of Congress have had to subpoena information in order to
do their work. Last October, Congressmen Christopher Shays and Henry
Waxman, the chairman and ranking Democrat on the House Government
Reform Subcommittee on National Security, Emerging Threats and
International Relations, asked for an audit of the Development Fund for
Iraq. The copy they received had over 400 items blacked out. They had
so much difficulty obtaining an unredacted report from the Defense
Department that they had to prepare a subpoena. Once they finally
received an unredacted copy, guess what had been blacked out? More than
$218 million in charges from Halliburton. So far, no one has been held
accountable.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2005/s072705.html



PART I: Laws that Provide Public Access to Federal Record
The Administration has narrowed in scope and application each of the landmark laws enacted by Congress to promote "government in the sunshine."

I: Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)
The Administration has limited the scope of the primary federal law providing the public with a right to information held by the executive branch and has resisted information requests through procedural tactics and delays.

II: Presidential Records Act
The President has issued an executive order undermining the Watergate-era law that makes presidential records available to historians and the public.

III: Federal Advisory Committee Act
The Administration has undercut and evaded the federal law that requires openness and a balance of viewpoints on government advisory bodies.

Part II: Laws that Restrict Access to Public Records
The Administration has reversed steps taken by the Clinton Administration to declassify information and has expanded the capacity of the executive branch to operate in secret.

I: National Security Classification of Government Records
The President has expanded the classification powers of executive agencies, resulting in a dramatic increase in the volume of classified government information.

II: Expanded Protection of "Sensitive Security Information"
The Administration has obtained an expansion of “sensitive security information” to allow the withholding of information about the safety of any mode of transportation.

III: Weakened DHS Disclosure Under the National Environmental Policy Act
The Administration has proposed a directive that would permit the Department of Homeland Security to conceal information about the environmental impacts of its activities.

IV: Expanding Secret Government Operations
The Administration has expanded its authority to conduct law enforcement operations in secret with limited or no judicial oversight through the enactment of new laws such as the USA PATRIOT Act and novel interpretations of existing authorities.

Part III:Congressional Access To Information
The Administration has repeatedly refused to provide members of Congress, the Government Accountability Office, and congressional commissions with information necessary for meaningful congressional oversight.

I: GAO Authority to Investigate Accountability
The Administration has challenged the authority of the congressional General Accountability Office to review federal records and investigate federal programs.

II: Seven Member Rule
The Administration has challenged the authority of members of the House Government Reform Committee to obtain information on matters within the jurisdiction of the Committee.

III:Witholding Information from Congress
The Administration has frequently withheld information sought by ranking members of congressional committees.

IV:Investigative Commissions
The Administration resisted or delayed providing information to the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks upon the United States, the commission created by Congress to investigate the September 11 attacks.

Conclusion
The Bush Administration has systematically sought to limit disclosure of government records while expanding its authority to operate in secret. Taken together, the Administration’s actions represent an unparalleled assault on the principle of open government.

http://www.democrats.reform.house.gov/features/secrecy_report/index.asp



Bush Officials Try to Hide Global Warming Facts from Public, Researchers Say

An increasing number of reports are surfacing about how the Bush administration is making it difficult for climate researchers to inform the American public about global warming.

The latest, published April 6 in The Washington Post, says that employees and contractors at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, as well a U.S. Geological Survey scientist, report that administration officials have chastised them for speaking on policy questions; removed references to global warming from reports, news releases and conference Web sites; investigated news leaks; and at times urged researchers to stop speaking to media.

“There has been a change in how we’re expected to interact with the press,” said Pieter Tans, who measures greenhouse gases linked to global warming and has worked at NOAA’s Earth System Research Laboratory in Boulder, Colo., for two decades. Fortunately for the public, he also said he “often ignores the rules.”

Posted 04-06-2006 1:58 PM EDT

http://www.bushsecrecy.org/blogindex.cfm?startrow=1&maxrows=10#261



The White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB) stopped the EPA for several months from warning homeowners about zonolite insulation products, which contain a form of asbestos that poses extremely elevated cancer risks. The OMB suppressed information about a serious cancer problem that posed a risk to millions of American families.

A key provision in a landmark auto safety law passed in the wake of the 2000 Ford/Firestone tire tragedies is supposed to give auto safety regulators and consumers an "early warning" about a dangerous defect and save lives. But the new rule announced by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration will keep important information, such as consumer complaints to manufacturers and warranty claims, secret. That is not what Congress intended.

The Department of Agriculture has refused to give Public Citizen information about how the agency decides if another country’s food inspection system is "equivalent" to U.S. standards. A review of documents that are publicly available shows a sloppy process for determining "equivalency," so full of holes and omissions that U.S. consumers are exposed to increased risk of eating contaminated food imported from other countries.

One of the biggest obstacles to effective regulation and mitigation of hazards, however, is the White House’s obsession with secrecy. This takes the form of distortion of information needed to effectively deal with threats to health and safety; the outright censorship of scientific data generated by regulatory agencies; and the suppression of facts that don’t fit the administration’s political and ideological agenda.

Now that the U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to hear the White House argue why it shouldn't have to disclose documents from Vice President****Cheney's energy task force, conservative New York Times columnist William Safire asks, "Are Republicans out of their collective mind?" Not only is it wrong to ask the High Court "to erect a high barrier to finding out who is advising whom about the public's business behind closed doors," Safire writes, but it also smacks of hypocrisy because Republicans relentlessly criticized the Clinton administration for its executive privilege claims during the Paula Jones saga. Safire calls out President Bush for going "all out to keep his administration's energy deliberations from public scrutiny." And he has some advice for the White House: If "freedom" is the word Bush and Cheney want as the hallmark of their administration, they should begin with freedom of information.

The twelve-year restriction period for the papers of former President Reagan and his Vice President, George H.W. Bush, expired on the same day George W. Bush took office. But instead of permitting the Archives to release approximately 68,000 pages of previously restricted Reagan records that would otherwise have been opened to the public in February 2001, the White House ordered the Archives three times to postpone the release of the materials. Then, on November 1, 2001, President Bush issued an executive order that purports to make fundamental changes in the Presidential Records Act.

Under the executive order, if a former President or Vice President—or even a member of his family—objects to the release of any document on the ground of "executive privilege," the Archives is forbidden to release the document to the public. The same is true if the incumbent President asserts "executive privilege." The effect is to replace the Presidential Records Act’s limited 12-year restriction period with a potentially indefinite limitation on access.

( By the way, how can a "member of the family" invoke executive privilege - since they are not elected to any office ? )

http://www.bushsecrecy.org/page.cfm?PagesID=17&ParentID=1&CategoryID=1


How can one argue that the government need to access information on people, yet at the same time massively restrict the right of the people to know what government is itself doing ?



Sadly, such infringements upon newsgatherers' rights are nothing new. One of the most ominous post-Sept. 11 events occurred after The Associated Press began exploring why a package mailed from its Philippines bureau in September 2002 never reached assistant Washington Bureau Chief John Solomon. Federal Express claimed the package was lost, but the AP discovered that the FBI had the package, which contained an unclassified, eight-year-old crime lab report from a terrorism case.

According to the AP, the package was intercepted by the Customs Service and turned over to the FBI without a warrant. It was kept without notice or due process. AP would never even have known about the interference had it not pressed for answers.

The FBI later admitted it acted wrongly and returned the package -- more than nine months after it was first sent. More chilling: the FBI admitted that it kept the package to prevent Solomon from reporting certain contents of the report.

And the restrictions also occurred in the skies. Many television stations could not use news helicopters after the Federal Aviation Administration grounded aircraft immediately after Sept. 11. Even after the FAA began restoring the right to the nation's airspace, the agency's restrictions kept the helicopters out of the sky.

After two months of halted flights for newsgathering and traffic watches, many helicopters returned to the air on a limited basis in early December. A few weeks later, on Dec. 19, 2001, the FAA restored general aviation access to airspace above the nation's 30 largest metropolitan areas.

While restrictions stifled news helicopter flights, they did not apply to student pilots, such as the Florida teenager who died in January 2002 after ramming a stolen plane into the Bank of America building in Tampa. Broadcasters still have not gotten an explanation as to why news helicopters were among the last aircraft to return to the sky.

In Washington, security concerns continue to hamper journalists sporadically more than three years after the attacks. A freelance photographer covering a 2005 presidential inaugural protest for alternative media network Indymedia was hit with pepper spray and had his cameras confiscated before District of Columbia police arrested him as he filmed a group of protestors. Earlier on Inauguration Day, as many as 15 percent of the 1,000 television reporters and cameramen who applied for special credentials to be allowed into a high security zone for the ceremony did not get them, The Associated Press reported. Credentialing was denied to several print journalists who were fingerprinted and photographed and had background checks.

Members of the foreign news media are not eligible for a Department of Homeland Security visa waiver program that allows citizens from 27 "friendly" nations to travel visa-free to the United States for up to 90 days for tourism or business. Journalism is the only profession singled out for visa purposes.

At least 14 foreign journalists have been detained and sent home by U.S. officials since March 2003, according to Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) who introduced a bill in September 2004 that would allow foreign reporters into the United States without special journalist visas. The bill never made it out of a House subcommittee and has not been reintroduced.

"The problem is not misinterpretation of the law administered incorrectly by a few immigration agents," Lofgren wrote in an e-mail to the Reporters Committee. "It is with our immigration law that singles out the foreign press, radio, film or other foreign information media."

In May 2003, six French journalists traveling to the United States to cover a video game trade show in California were detained at Los Angeles International Airport and later sent back to France for not having press visas. Instead of obtaining the required "I" visas, the French reporters tried to enter the U.S. only with valid passports.

One year later, British journalist Elena Lappin was also detained upon arriving at Los Angeles International Airport on May 3. Traveling with a valid passport but no visa, Lappin was taken in handcuffs to a detention center after informing U.S. customs officials she was on a freelance assignment for the British daily newspaper The Guardian. Lappin was sent back to London the following day.

http://www.rcfp.org/homefrontconfidential/domestic.html
 VioletSkye

Joined: 1/3/2006
Msg: 37
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/28/2006 12:24:08 PM

How can one argue that the government need to access information on people, yet at the same time massively restrict the right of the people to know what government is itself doing ?


Because there is always the possibilty we could find out they're doing all sorts of unethical, illegal things that they arrest and try many others for doing!

You know that saying... "Do as I say (or tell you to do!), but not as I do."
 MUSICMAYKER

Joined: 4/4/2006
Msg: 38
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/28/2006 3:32:20 PM
YEA!!..they'll probably figure out how to hobble my horse!!...put a non-canter chip in BUCKSHOTS' shoe!! lol!!!..Maybe a shut-down chip in hair-dryers to conserve "juice"!!...The women of America will storm Capital Hill!!! hahahahaha LOL!!! FAITH/HOPE/LOVE~DOC~
 cougar99

Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 39
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/29/2006 2:44:41 PM
Theres nothing wrong with giving up all your freedoms as long as there is American Idol, and Angelina and Brad having a baby, those are the things really important to Americans ....right?

Why stand up for your rights, instead save that energy to vote for your favortie singer, or favorite dancer, where your opinion really matters.

As long as we have entertainment news and reality television, who needs privacy, just realize when you watch Big Brother, guess who is watching you..
 Dix

Joined: 7/24/2004
Msg: 40
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/29/2006 5:46:23 PM
How can one argue that the government need to access information on people, yet at the same time massively restrict the right of the people to know what government is itself doing ?


Because some of us aren't so paranoid.

Some of the posters in this thread should try this joint... it'll be right up your alley...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/

Just make sure you check your common sense at the door.
 michaelvanwriter

Joined: 6/6/2005
Msg: 41
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/29/2006 6:08:27 PM
Man, was I annoyed. There I ws in my mosque preaching death to all Western infidels. Afterwards, I sit down at the table with my co-conspirators and start reading the New York Times. Wow! Holy Akbar! I realized that they might have been listening in on my phone calls to Saudi Arabia. That basta%$^, George Bush. I sent a check for $500 to the DNC the very next day. Praise Allah.
 bob0colo

Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 42
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 5/30/2006 3:25:27 PM
Thanks Dix ........mich who's linten to UUUU... this is USA

i know the bill of rights is sh it old stuff ...

Geo chief draft dodger is rite... no warrent terrorrr scares me....

when Clinton takes over i will feel better... wont you???
 tittiger

Joined: 12/14/2005
Msg: 43
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 7/9/2006 4:51:57 AM
Its too late...... this has been going on for 50 years or so.


Ever hear of project Echelon? Google it if you are curious.
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/echelon_011121-1.html
http://www.echelonwatch.org/

It's all part of government incrementalism.
 Gorshkov

Joined: 5/25/2006
Msg: 44
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Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 7/9/2006 2:28:59 PM

He changes his story, stammers, then gets pissy.


This really bothers me - a lot - and I hear it every time somebody disagrees with what Bush has said or done.

Anybody who thinks that elequence or the ability to speak publically is a measure of intelligence has never heard of somebody named Stephen Hawking.

If you don't like what he's done, say so.
If you don't like his policies, say so.

But condemming the man because he's not a gifted orator is silly, stupid, and shallow.

I'm sorry, Violet - this *isn't* meant as a personal attack. But every time I go into these forums, I see it everywhere. I guess your statment (VERY mild compared to most) was just the last straw for me.
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 45
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 7/9/2006 2:46:24 PM
I disagree totally, with respect.

Hawking is a scientist, and suffers from a disease.

Leaders are supposed to be not only eloquent - but well read, and cultured. Your history is filled with some of the best examples of those the world has seen in modern times. A leader is there to inspire, and to do that one has to use words properly .

This man was born into one of the richest families in America, a family with ties to politics that stretches back into the history of your nation. He went to the finest schools, and got degrees from them.

He worked in business, and ran the state of Texas.

And yet, without a piece of paper in front of him ( and sometimes even then) , he destroys the english language, makes critical mistakes in history (ironically his major) , and cannot argue his ideas with any conviction.

There are entire websites detailing his misuse and abuse of the language, and his errors in fact - and DVD's too.

He's on his second term now, and he's STILL doing it.


President Bush told a German newspaper his best moment in more than five years in office was catching a big perch in his own lake.

"You know, I've experienced many great moments, and it's hard to name the best," Bush told weekly Bild am Sonntag when asked about his high point since becoming president in January 2001.

"I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5-pound perch in my lake," he told the newspaper in an interview published Sunday.


Not to take anything away from fishing, but .....c'mon.

If that's what you think your best moment was, it speaks volumes about how you see things.

I'm not demanding that every leader be a Kennedy or a Churchill either. If you look at the history of the presidency, this guy is certainly the worst speaker I am aware of.

The horror here is that Bush, with his family advantage, education, and experience is far less able to express himself intelligently than most people posting here on these forums.

I'd think at least half of the people posting here (and I'm being a tough marker here) WITHOUT any of those things, could respond in a far better manner to defend his arguments - left OR right.

What's that say about him ?
 VioletSkye

Joined: 1/3/2006
Msg: 46
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 7/9/2006 5:59:03 PM

This really bothers me - a lot - and I hear it every time somebody disagrees with what Bush has said or done.

Anybody who thinks that elequence or the ability to speak publically is a measure of intelligence has never heard of somebody named Stephen Hawking.


If you don't like what he's done, say so.
If you don't like his policies, say so.

But condemming the man because he's not a gifted orator is silly, stupid, and shallow.

I'm sorry, Violet - this *isn't* meant as a personal attack. But every time I go into these forums, I see it everywhere. I guess your statment (VERY mild compared to most) was just the last straw for me.

_________________________________________________________________

I have said so. On many occasions. He's an imbecile. And shows it often. He cannot debate, doesn't come across sincerely at all. There are many people that don't have an education, that come across much more eloquently and much more precise and knowledgeable than he can, by far.

_________________________________________________________________



Montreal_Guy

I disagree totally, with respect.

Hawking is a scientist, and suffers from a disease.

Leaders are supposed to be not only eloquent - but well read, and cultured. Your history is filled with some of the best examples of those the world has seen in modern times. A leader is there to inspire, and to do that one has to use words properly .

This man was born into one of the richest families in America, a family with ties to politics that stretches back into the history of your nation. He went to the finest schools, and got degrees from them.

He worked in business, and ran the state of Texas.

And yet, without a piece of paper in front of him ( and sometimes even then) , he destroys the english language, makes critical mistakes in history (ironically his major) , and cannot argue his ideas with any conviction.

There are entire websites detailing his misuse and abuse of the language, and his errors in fact - and DVD's too.

He's on his second term now, and he's STILL doing it.


President Bush told a German newspaper his best moment in more than five years in office was catching a big perch in his own lake.

"You know, I've experienced many great moments, and it's hard to name the best," Bush told weekly Bild am Sonntag when asked about his high point since becoming president in January 2001.

"I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5-pound perch in my lake," he told the newspaper in an interview published Sunday.



Not to take anything away from fishing, but .....c'mon.

If that's what you think your best moment was, it speaks volumes about how you see things.

I'm not demanding that every leader be a Kennedy or a Churchill either. If you look at the history of the presidency, this guy is certainly the worst speaker I am aware of.

The horror here is that Bush, with his family advantage, education, and experience is far less able to express himself intelligently than most people posting here on these forums.

I'd think at least half of the people posting here (and I'm being a tough marker here) WITHOUT any of those things, could respond in a far better manner to defend his arguments - left OR right.

What's that say about him ?



Thank you for that, MG. As always, well said.
 ninjasword701

Joined: 5/24/2006
Msg: 47
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 7/9/2006 6:11:03 PM
Leave it to Bush to change every ammendment that was once a right to all Americans. Think about that people. Everone should be allowed privacy as long as they are not plotting a terrorist action. That does not mean that Bush has the right to invade everyone elses privacy.
 tittiger

Joined: 12/14/2005
Msg: 48
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 7/9/2006 6:49:08 PM
You guys that focus on left and right are missing the point.

The point is that all government will enslave you.... Doesn't matter what their label or what party they profess to be from.

I want a politician that represents the ideals of minimal government & freedom....
I dont care if the is an eloquent speaker what I do care about are that his actions reflect his promises before he was elected.

No matter what I don't trust any of then any farther than I can throw them.


"It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made
by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they
cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if
they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo
such incessant changes that no man who knows what the law is today can
guess what is will be tomorrow."
-- James Madison, Federalist no. 62, February 27, 1788
 ninjasword701

Joined: 5/24/2006
Msg: 49
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 7/9/2006 7:00:09 PM
The real problem with the U.S. people needed some leader to protect everyone from a war he created. Get Bush's bro in and you will do W.W.III real soon as the government starting it all. Jeez, you guys should get Jessie Ventura and Hulk Hogan to run next time. Then it would be interesting to see who gets the title. Ding Ding
 VioletSkye

Joined: 1/3/2006
Msg: 50
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History
Right to privacy completely gone out the window?
Posted: 7/9/2006 7:19:23 PM

Jeez, you guys should get Jessie Ventura and Hulk Hogan to run next time. Then it would be interesting to see who gets the title. Ding Ding


Heaven forbid! What a side show that would! Not that we aren't now!
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