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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/2/2008 7:35:58 PM |
Quirky, why do you feel the urge to needle Johne rather than address the legitimate issues brought up? Perhaps single status has less to do with children thn other factors for some.
Personally I was not going to get back into this debate, but the only reason I asked that of Johne was that I have read the same line from him over and over for months...I think if someone has to needlessly repeat their same line over and over, then the issue lies more with them, then anyone else.....He chooses not to just move on and just live his life and focus on his GIRLFRIEND, but instead he wants to rehash all the bad experiences he has had over and over again with single moms..and then emails single moms asking to be our friends...wtf... | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/2/2008 7:36:48 PM | We all understand the liability of dating a single mother in Canada. The whole possibility of having to pay support for a child that is not yours. WE GET IT! But maybe if these men just picked better women that would not do this they wouldn't have this worry.
If they didn't pick single mothers period, they wouldn't have to worry. Why go out with a single mom and have to figure this out and that out, just avoid them and eliminate all these possible single mom woes altogether. Note that my advice and words of caution, only applies to singles with no children. | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/2/2008 7:40:21 PM |
The ones that don't want to date just because I have a child are the type that don't want responsibility and commitment anyway, so I am not really losing out on anything myself. They may want responsibility, just not YOUR responsibility.
Amen to that!!!!! | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/2/2008 7:52:46 PM | For the record, I tend to prefer single mothers (with older children, usually). Not always, because every person is different, but it seems like I've had healthier relationships with them. I'm a big believer in the idea that having kids makes women better people most of the time. So, I end up dating single moms fairly often.
Adamkevans, you are a single moms sucker just waiting to happen. You sound just like the syrupy nice guy that sees the single mom as hard working and reliable just because she can't go out a lot and has to cook and clean for her kids. A single guy like yourself should see them as time constricted indivuals with some other guys kids. Single moms will pounce on your nice status faster than you can say jump. You know why? Because while they were out giving it up to the bad boys, you were left out in the cold. Now that they are left out in the cold it's time to find a nice boy/chump. The bad boy guys that you grew up disliking and getting punked by are the ones whose children that you are going to end up raising. Canada isn't the only country where laws will hold you liable for another mans child. There have been many case of the such right here in the US. | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/2/2008 8:15:59 PM |
: We all understand the liability of dating a single mother in Canada. The whole possibility of having to pay support for a child that is not yours. WE GET IT! But maybe if these men just picked better women that would not do this they wouldn't have this worry
 yes they all wear signs and tee-shirts stating what type of person they are. And none at all have ever started out saying stuff like "I am a proud, independent woman. And I would NEVER go after a man for monetary reasons when he was not responsible.", but when things go south some will show a different vindictive side that was never advertised.
It all goes back to the type of people you choose to associate with.
Sounds more like you are talking about drugdelers and crackheads than just parents. But in a way you have a point, and for some that will mean choosing to not date single parents.
Sure you "get it", but i still haven't seen many solutions to that situation offered, other that "if it happens it is your fault anyway for taking a chance on the wrong person". How novel. | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/2/2008 8:26:46 PM | Ok, SOME single moms are evil...Some single moms lead you on and then expect all the things that Johne and others have encountered.
I don't have a solution for it. I don't think anyone does. It is human nature that some people are going to be greedy, evil, selfish. etc. However, it exists in every facet of society...
I guess us single moms that are completely innocent of wrongdoing will just have to suck it up and take the browbeating for a few of our fellow single moms that had to conduct themselves like idiots.... | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/2/2008 8:37:13 PM |
I guess us single moms that are completely innocent of wrongdoing will just have to suck it up and take the browbeating for a few of our fellow single moms that had to conduct themselves like idiots....
It's a shame that this sort of thing happens. I suspect that it's somewhat less likely than implied (single moms putting their boyfriends through the wringer). The thing is, it's SUCH a kick in the testicles to a guy when it DOES happen, not to mention the financial beating he's CAN POTENTIALLY take; and, EVERYONE has heard the horror stories.
On the flip side: my ex-wife wants to marry her boyfriend. Her boyfriend has kids. She told me that she was seriously reconsidering because she had been told that SHE would become financially responsible for HIS kids. I've never heard of a woman being taken to the cleaners by a single dad, but that threw it in a whole new perspective...
Arlo | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/2/2008 8:42:22 PM |
The thing is, it's SUCH a kick in the testicles to a guy when it DOES happen, not to mention the financial beating he's CAN POTENTIALLY take; and, EVERYONE has heard the horror stories
But, this could be true of ANY relationship..not just one involving a single mom...But, alas, I guess it being a single mom gets more attention..
and yes, Canadian law is ridiculous... | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/2/2008 8:53:10 PM |
Adamkevans, you are a single moms sucker just waiting to happen.
Thanks for the insult, but you're way off base about me.
You sound just like the syrupy nice guy that sees the single mom as hard working and reliable just because she can't go out a lot and has to cook and clean for her kids.
Uh, no. I see the ones who ARE hard working and reliable as hard working and reliable.
I NEVER said there weren't some horrible single mothers out there. There absolutely are. And many of them are, unfortunately, evident on this forum by the things they post (moving guys in with their kids after just a few months, dating while they have infants, having many boyfriends in a short period of time, etc).
But you know what? If you're not a complete dumbass about it, it's not really that difficult to tell a responsible single mother who puts her kids first from a shitty one that puts her love life above all else.
You know, unless you're just completely jaded and bitter and assume that ALL single mothers are pieces of crap--which I don't.
A single guy like yourself should see them as time constricted indivuals with some other guys kids.
Uh... I do. Because that's exactly what they are.
Single moms will pounce on your nice status faster than you can say jump. You know why? Because while they were out giving it up to the bad boys, you were left out in the cold. Now that they are left out in the cold it's time to find a nice boy/chump. The bad boy guys that you grew up disliking and getting punked by are the ones whose children that you are going to end up raising.
Wow. What the hell? So, I'm a nice guy that got punked by bad guys when I was a kid? Well, I'm so glad you think you know me, BUT...
1. I never grew up disliking or getting punked by anyone, but apparently you did.
2. I am a nice guy. However, nice guy does not equal gullible sucker. My head's screwed on nice and straight.
3. Holy shit are you bitter.
Canada isn't the only country where laws will hold you liable for another mans child. There have been many case of the such right here in the US.
The risk here is nowhere near as great as in Canada and you know this.
And for that matter, I would never consider moving in with someone with children unless I'd been dating them for years. And I would never date someone who wanted me to move in much quicker than that. It's not putting their children first otherwise. And even after that, I would never get into a situation where I was expected to be anything more than a role model and friend.
Anyways... I had no desire to get into something like this. But, holy crap, dude. Bitter much? Here's my thinking on why I date the way I do, since you have some pretty messed up ideas about me.
I'm approaching 30 years old, and I have no desire to have children of my own. So what's my dating options here?
1. Younger girls who haven't had kids and want them. I don't want children, so this is out. Not to mention, even if I did, the odds are EXTREMELY good that we'd get married, have kids, divorce, and then my life would be in the shitter. In fact, I'd say the odds of my life getting ruined from this are MUCH MUCH greater than from dating a single mother--like astronomically greater. They're younger, they've had little life experience and responsibility, and they tend to be more selfish. It's a child support bomb waiting to go off.
2. Women who have no kids and don't want them. For starters, these are rare even at my relatively young age. But more importantly, have you dated any of these types? I have. If you think single mothers have issues, you should give some of these a whirl. It's not that uncommon for guys to not want kids, but it's much more abnormal for women to feel that way. They're programmed to want babies. So, when you run across the occasional one who doesn't, they tend to be action-packed with other issues as well. I'm so not interested in a succubus like that.
3. Single mothers. Yup, there's some crappy single mothers out there who make them all look bad. You only need to take a trip to Wally World to get a glimpse of this. Or, like I said, just browse the Single Parents forum on here. But a good single mother who actually DOES put their children above all else (and not just give it lipservice on internet forum)? The ones who actually won't want you to meet their kids right away, or move in quickly, or for you to be a surrogate parent? The ones who actually do put their children's welfare above their love lives? These women are worth their weight in gold. They're responsible, they've learned to think about more than just themselves, and raising children has settled them down and made them more mature. You find one of these, with older children who will be adults a few short years? Hang on to her.
So, there you go. There's my thinking. Flame away. | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/2/2008 9:03:11 PM | The risk here is nowhere near as great as in Canada and you know this.
Just had to butt in here for a sec:
People don't understand the concept of "risk", which is kinda funny, because they refer to it all the time. Let's say that your chances of some awful, potentially life-ending event was only one in a million (say, jamming a fork in the toaster...). Seems like pretty small odds... unless you're that one millionth guy. Or, take a really GOOD event, like winning the lottery when the jackpot is several tens of millions of dollars. There may only be an infinitely small chance of winning; but, for the person who actually DID win, it was strictly one in one.
Okay, we now return you to your regularly scheduled rant/flame-war already in progress...
Arlo | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/2/2008 9:04:55 PM |
but i still haven't seen many solutions to that situation offered, other that "if it happens it is your fault anyway for taking a chance on the wrong person". How novel.
What's really ironic is someone who will say it's the Canadian man's fault for not picking a better mate if he gets screwed, are the exact same people who will say it's not AT ALL their fault that they ended up a single parent.
Can't really have it both ways, though. | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/2/2008 10:11:26 PM | Adam, I don't know what kind of trailer park/ghetto you live in, but where I'm from there are plenty of single women 30 years-old plus that didn't spend their teens/early twenties getting knocked up by some guy who wasn't going to be there for the long haul. Your problem is that single moms and leftist society has shamed most men into feeling that they owe these women something if they get left out in the cold by irresponsible men. And if you don't feel this way then you are crude and bitter. Give me a break!
You and any other guy is an idiot if you spend 1 minuet strapping/unstrapping a carseat from the back of your car for some other guys kid. And older kids can be just as disruptive to a relationship as young kids. And once a mom always a mom, it's like a open house....older kids start having more kids and the cycle continues.
If you don't want kids, why would want someone who already has another guys kids? | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/2/2008 10:57:37 PM |
Adam, I don't know what kind of trailer park/ghetto you live in, but where I'm from there are plenty of single women 30 years-old plus that didn't spend their teens/early twenties getting knocked up by some guy who wasn't going to be there for the long haul.
Well first of all, are you able to respond without being insulting? Because if you're not mature enough to post without personal insults, maybe you should think twice about posting. It doesn't paint you in a very good light.
Secondly, I didn't say there weren't plenty of 30 year old women without kids. I said there weren't many 30 year old women without kids who DID NOT WANT THEM SOMEDAY. There are some, but let's face it--most women either have kids or want them. Women without kids who don't want them are rare--and to be frank, most of them are batshit crazy.
Your problem is that single moms and leftist society has shamed most men into feeling that they owe these women something if they get left out in the cold by irresponsible men.
No, this is, again, you assuming you know something about me that you don't. I don't feel that I owe any single mothers anything. I don't feel the need to rescue anyone.
If I date someone, it's because I like them. That's it, that's all.
You and any other guy is an idiot if you spend 1 minuet strapping/unstrapping a carseat from the back of your car for some other guys kid.
You didn't even read what I wrote, did you?
I said I typically date people with older kids, AND that I wouldn't get heavily involved (ie, moving in) unless I'd been with them for years.
But, you know, being truthful about what I said wouldn't give you an opportunity to lob another personal insult.
If you don't want kids, why would want someone who already has another guys kids?
I already explained this, but since you apparently didn't really read my last post, I'll try again.
I don't want to have kids of my own. I like kids. I don't mind them at all. I just don't want to be a parent. It's not something I want for my life.
This means I can either date:
1. Women with no kids who don't want them
2. Women with kids who don't want more
Option 1 is rare and, in my not so humble experience, those kind of women tend to have MAJOR issues. Option 2 is plentiful and there are plenty of decent women.
And just because I date someone with kids, doesn't mean I'll be raising them. A good, responsible mother wouldn't expect me to play that role anyway. If a single mother did expect me to be a parent, they're not someone who's doing what they should be and not someone I would date anyway. | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/3/2008 6:10:38 AM | What's really ironic is someone who will say it's the Canadian man's fault for not picking a better mate if he gets screwed, are the exact same people who will say it's not AT ALL their fault that they ended up a single parent.
Who am I, Nostro-frigging-damus? I, and most guys (and gals, for that matter) are NOT precognitive, or mind-readers. We can't tell if the person we hook up with only wants an easy ride for herself and her kids, or will go all nutso during a break-up.
*pfft* Choose better, indeed. My ex-wife wasn't the same person when we divorced, as she was when we went on our first date. She did things (and not good things, either!) during our divorce that I never would have thought her capable of during our courtship/early marriage.
Arlo | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/3/2008 8:42:48 AM | So I can't be friends with a single mom just because I will not date them? (Or so quirky mom implied.)
I would agree with others on this Fab-mom you say men shoud pick better women....do you not understand that some (not all but some) will give men what they want to hear regarding issues or dating, child support and spousal support because they know if they tell the truth men will run.
I will putr it back on you..if some single moms picked a better partner they would not be single moms now would they?
I still think I am not missing out on anything. If I am missing out on anything it is something I do not want like watching my time and money go to raising another man's kids. Tjhere are some great single mom's who suffer for this...I will agree but do you not see how a few bad apples spoil it for the rest of you? Part of the problem is that the single moms who "take men for a ride" do not post on these types of threads.
I have cerebral palsy and a few times women have told mne they did not want to get romantically involved with me because they dated a man with a disability in the past and it was not a good experience. I do not like it and I may very well be different from that other guy but I have to accept that it is the choice of that lady. I do not bash her, call her immature or say that she is not entitled to her opinion and preferances.
Some single moms should learn from that. | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/3/2008 8:57:23 AM |
I have cerebral palsy and a few times women have told mne they did not want to get romantically involved with me because they dated a man with a disability in the past and it was not a good experience. I do not like it and I may very well be different from that other guy but I have to accept that it is the choice of that lady. I do not bash her, call her immature or say that she is not entitled to her opinion and preferances.
Great, good for you...From what I have read, MOST of thist thread is NOT about women sitting here bashing men for NOT dating single moms...at least on my side.
It has turned into a whole thread of BASHING single moms, just for being so...Big difference there. I really had no idea coming in the attitudes that exist against single moms as a whole...
What happened to judging people INDIVIDUALLY....and I am out of a debate that is making me feel worse by the day and going nowhere.
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/3/2008 9:14:51 AM | well uve got a typical sterotypical attitude and it stinks.
No 1 can forsee whats gonna happen in there life whether they will end up a single parent or not.
i was with my kids dad for 12 years and he disided to walk away his choice.
why shd single parents not be seen as aperson in there own rite needing love and respect.
As people get older they r bound to come with children in toe.
All i say is well done to single parents out there whether u r male or female its a hard job and takes commitment and love and fingers crossed love will come to us all | |
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triv57
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Joined: 4/11/2008
Msg: 319 | |
| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/3/2008 10:42:37 AM | Not every single mom has the same situation. My soon to be ex and I are friends. We don't fight! We don't argue! We are adults who have just fallen out of love with each other over the last few years...grown in different directions so to speak. So him and I are more than amicable in our break up, so bullsh*t there. I know that not everyone is in this type of break-up situation.
But lets face it, moms want to be loved too! Yes, we do want great s3x but thats not all. We want the adult conversation and type of relationship that a man and a woman should have. What about the single dads out there, the ones who have the custody of their children because the moms suck at being a mom. So those are the guys that single moms should go after. Those are the ones that understand the plight of the single mom. Courts are awarding more and more dads full time custody of their kids. That's who I would want to date.
As for the kids, that statement of "your not my daddy you can't tell me what to do" is all up to the enforcement of the mom. The mom sets down that standard and enforces that to the children. But also on the other hand it doesn't give the new man in moms life carte blanche to do as he wants to the kids. I'd kill someone if they hurt my kids. But stopping them from getting hurt in a fight or from killing each other is different. The new man has to have the same child rearing values as the mom or its not going to work. | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/3/2008 2:51:12 PM | | Hey guys.. I was reading this and some of the things these men are putting make me really sad.. I am a 20 year old single mother and I like to think that I am not going to spend the rest of my life alone. I would think it would take a very strong individual to step up to the plate but the men that dont are going to be missing out on one of the most beautiful things in this world. Its one thing to not like the women period.. or not to be ready for such a commitment but what men are forgetting is that us as single mothers are very protective with our children and we dont want you to be their dad overnight.. or ever for that matter.We are simply looking for the same thing as everyone else .. love .. compliments..hugs..friendship. Most of our children have fathers and just because we are "single parents" doesnt make us broken... and as far as Im concerned those men that think just because we have children we arent worth looking at.. well I think the same about you because you clearly have alot of life to live and alot of maturing to do before you would be ever good enough to be given such a special resonsibility. | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/3/2008 3:27:41 PM | I would think it would take a very strong individual to step up to the plate but the men that dont are going to be missing out on one of the most beautiful things in this world.
We won't miss it, honey. We will have it with our own children.
you clearly have alot of life to live and alot of maturing to do before you would be ever good enough to be given such a special resonsibility.
And most of us will glady take such responsibility with our own children, thank you very much.
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/3/2008 4:37:43 PM | All people are different. We have different prefferences, and I know that some men don't like the idea of dating single moms. There is nothing wrong with that. Then there are alot of men that don't mind dating single moms, there is nothing wrong with that either...it is a personal choice...no big deal.
I do take offense to someone saying that we all got knocked up by bad boys and now just want a chump to take advantage of. That is a silly thing to say. Alot of us were married, had a family, and then due to circumstance the marriage disolved. Bad boys don't generally MARRY the girls they knock up. I think people need to stop taking cheap shots on here, it is sad to see.
Ladies, we do not need to date men that do not want to date us because of our children. It does take a special man to step in and become a part of the life a good single mom.
Men, no presure to date us. We were fine before you, we'll be fine after your gone. No worries.  | |
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| How are Men missing out, If they choose not to Date sigle moms
Posted: 5/3/2008 5:56:49 PM |
The new man has to have the same child rearing values as the mom or its not going to work.
And that statement is another reason why single males should be careful about dating single mothers.
If you follow or subscribe to the same ideas that the mother does then you are fine. However if you do not blindly follow her lead then you are potentially looking at problems.
But then there is the adage that mothers know best because they had the child growing inside of them.. They know best because of the maternal instinct
Do as I say and not as I do....or leave your self determination at the door?
I would have suggested that the new man and mother need to have the ability to compromise? But this mother feels he needs to agree with what she does or believes?
Courts are awarding more and more dads full time custody of their kids.
For the most part only after a very expensive and difficult trial where you have to prove the mother unfit.....where the reverse the mother does not need to prove the father unfit for her to have or keep custody.
The numbers are still very small where men are successful.
What about the single dads out there, the ones who have the custody of their children because the moms suck at being a mom. So those are the guys that single moms should go after
Talk about generalizations. Or assuming facts not known. I have custody and the mother of my children does not suck at being a Mom. That is an arrogant and condescending attitude that woman who do not have custody have been forced to deal with.
There are some fathers who are better able to deal with raising children. there are fathers whose job is better suited to raise or care for children.
There are woman who through emotional or psychological reasons are unable to care for children on a day to day basis.
A father who is there every other weekend or a mother who is there every other weekend are doing a good job based on the situation that they have .
Yes single custodial fathers know some of the issues that single mothers go through. Single custodial parents are or can be terrible potential bf/gf depending on the requirements needed to care for their children.
My children have after school or evening activities on average about 5 nights per week.
I want to insure that they do not miss out on anything due to the marital breakdown so I attempt to insure that they are never wanting.
My interest or attention is on the children before it is on anything else.
A single woman without children often is not willing or able to comprehend or deal with the limited amount of time that I am willing to give her. I accept that and understand that. Until things are getting long term i also will not introduce them to my children which again leaves less time for that potential relationship. Until both children are old enough I will not leave them home alone for extended or into the evening. Even now the last lady i met both children ended up calling needing intervention or things answered. That is a reality and I am fine with that.
So that means I am not a good potential bf for a woman without children or a woman who has seen her children leave the nest...she wants to be able to travel and do things now that she has her freedom.
A single mother with children is also difficult as she has her children and i have my children so if you are lucky you might get a free evening once or twice a month.
I long ago accepted the reality. Single parents with custody or primary custody are not good dating prospects.....and that is my choice...my decision....and i would never have it any other way...and I have no reason or rational to cry the blues about it.
And there was once a single mother who stated I needed to draw boundaries .....easy to suggest but one needs to be there for children first.....and if the situation allows it then you try to find a relationship.
Single mothers make a bad choice for many single men. Emotionally and financially.
That is a simple reality.
And it goes the same for a custodial father.
Now if both parents are able to share custody and co parent then a custodial parent is able to find the proper time to work on the relationship and reciprocate the time and effort the other party is putting forth.
Is it not selfish and unfair to expect someone to put in the time and effort into a relationship when you are not able to reciprocate in the same manner. But some will suggest or feel if they are real men they will accommodate and adapt. Is that a real woman speaking expecting the other party to adapt to their timetable and schedule?
Relationships are a two way street and you hear more than a few mothers say where the priorities lies......and I have no problem with that...just stop the crying about being alone then!
I would expect that when I can put in the same amount of time and effort into a relationship that the other party is able to then i would become a better prospective dating partner. but until i am able to do so...then i have some serious flaws for someone to consider.
And then when one considers the Canadian family law act...I might be even less acceptable. LOL but a little legal tidbit.....a step parent can tell the custodial parent to
get a court order for cs from the bio parent first before they go looking for one from a step parent. | |
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