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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/15/2006 4:00:06 PM | I enjoyed the list of synonyms in msg 34 for "shallow". The one that rings most accurate for me is "superficial".
I'd like to put a different slant on this. I agree with most people who say that we all have a right to our preferences regarding height, weight, eye color, job status, etc ... in looking for a mate. The important distinction to me, though, is a hierarchy of values: a superficial (shallow) person will place a certain look or image vastly ABOVE core priciples and values when seeking a friend or lover. It also reflects on the preference of pursuits in the person's solo activities: i.e. they'd rather watch Jerry Springer than read a compelling book.
Shallow people aren't necessarily that way because they focus on physique or possessions; they'll stick with a like-minded shallow person when (and even because) their date/mate also doesn't bother discussing anything of import, or creating anything memorable and valuable. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/15/2006 4:02:35 PM | i thought of something while reading tiger's post: People tend to say that you can't help who you fall in love with, that is just happens and perhaps that is why you see some attractive people with rather unattractive ones. But, on the flip side, if you can't help who you fall for, then you can't help who you are attracted to either.
Humans as a species have qualities we like in one another and others we don't. Its nature, you can't argue with it. Whereas most animals will procreate with each other regardless, we don't do that. We have preferences. I for one can't help it if i can't muster up the feelings or the drive to have sex with a larger overweight woman. It just doesn't work for me no matter how nice and sweet they may be. I've tried it several times before and I just can't do it. And there's many others who feel the same way. Its not shallow. Like I stated before, I've been on the other side of this so I know very well the sting of rejection, still do. But I don't for one minute whine about people being shallow. This crap about loving yourself in your own skin and being happy with who your are is just an excuse these people use to get through their day. Somehow they think they're above the rest of us, kinda like ex-smokers or reborn christians. You wanna date someone you aren't attracted to? Go for it. Not me. And these forums are full of people who feel the same way. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/15/2006 7:40:40 PM | Every year, the March of Dimes organization in Seattle hosts a March of Dimes Bid for Bachelors, where dates with bachelors are auctioned to the women. For the October 18, 1990, event, the chairwoman described the volunteer bachelors as "everyday kinds of guys." These "everyday kind of guys” were an artist, a stock broker, a doctor, a hydroplane racer, businessmen and even a retired diplomat."
If these are what women consider "everyday kinds of guys," then the vast majority of men, whose incomes and professions do not compare, must qualify as ‘barstards”. Clearly, there is no "man shortage." Only an abundance of shallow women! | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/15/2006 8:04:19 PM | We all have our preferences . It 's obvious when you read what people write and what they say that they need from a partner , We want strength .... at least I do. I do not want someone who can't keep up to my daily insanity , Life should be fun . whatever it is that you are doing and some people just can't physically do that . If you are over weight and I'm not attracted to you is that shallow ? If you can't spell and I find you ignorant is that shallow ? If you abuse drugs and I think your a freak is that shallow ? "NO" i just want the best for my life and as most of us do it's about not allowing anyone to slow us down. You need to be fit physically, emotionally, and mentally if I'm going to be interested . Otherwise he insecurity will kill the whole deal. It's about being able to deal with any situation. I need a strong woman to compliment my life. Shallow .....No......... realistic........ absolutely.
Deal with what 's slowing you down and then you will be attractive. We all know what these things are but we deny oursleves this observation becasue it hit's too close to home. Ego will kill every opportunity that you have. Take a good hard look at yourself and see what it is that others see and fix it. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/15/2006 8:18:02 PM |
We all have our preferences . It 's obvious when you read what people write and what they say that they need from a partner , We want strength .... at least I do. I do not want someone who can't keep up to my daily insanity , Life should be fun . whatever it is that you are doing and some people just can't physically do that . If you are over weight and I'm not attracted to you is that shallow ? If you can't spell and I find you ignorant is that shallow ? If you abuse drugs and I think your a freak is that shallow ? "NO" i just want the best for my life and as most of us do it's about not allowing anyone to slow us down. You need to be fit physically, emotionally, and mentally if I'm going to be interested . Otherwise he insecurity will kill the whole deal. It's about being able to deal with any situation. I need a strong woman to compliment my life. Shallow .....No......... realistic........ absolutely.
Deal with what 's slowing you down and then you will be attractive. We all know what these things are but we deny oursleves this observation becasue it hit's too close to home. Ego will kill every opportunity that you have. Take a good hard look at yourself and see what it is that others see and fix it.
I understand what you mean and i agree with what you said for the most part. We ALL have preferences and that is OK and all, but if it becomes a requirment or something that we MUST have then that is being shallow, and again it depends what it is. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/15/2006 9:48:26 PM | | so is it shallow as well to like everyone without discriminating tastes? or is it just shallow to be particular and have preferences? Funny thing is we tend to think of shallow as particular vs not particular.... however maybe it's exactly the same thing.... | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/15/2006 10:22:23 PM | | ^^It is shallow NOT to like someone for silly reasons that overlook a persons character for something trivial and unimportant. Like I said we all have preferences, That is not shallow, but if it becoems a requirment , meaning something that you WILL NOT date a person over, especially if it's trivial or unimportant or another person has no control over it then that is shallow. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/15/2006 10:25:06 PM | ^^^Then maybe I am shallow, so shallow that I should drown myself in a shallow pond and die. Because....I won't date an unintelligent man.That is my preference which also happens to be a very strict requirement.
~*Flavia*~ | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/15/2006 10:43:26 PM | ^^ No I am reffering to if you WILL NOT date someone over some PHYSICAL imperfection that they cannot control or cannot help or is trivial.
But there is a DIFERENCE between preference and a requirment, if it's a requirment not to date soemone for SILLY reasons that is shallow.
I am talking about strickly physical and material things. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 6:53:08 AM | Hi mardioluv4u,
You're quite passionate about this and i know what you're saying. However, how can you say that it is shallow to not wish to date someone who is overweight? Or someone who simply isn't attractive at all really? While overweight is something that can be controlled but looks are not unless you have the money for plastic surgery, according to your logic then it is NOT shallow to not date an overweight person because that is a controlled situation.
Either way, most humans have preferences and always have. The ones who whine the most about this topic are the ones who are overweight or unattractive and have to rely on their personalities to win the day. And unfortunately for them it isn't always the case because most people won't give them that chance. But you can't begrudge people their preferences. If someone just doesn't do it for you then how can you expect to want to be with them or to kiss them or most importantly make love to them?
Attraction is the difference between lovers and friends. Sure sometimes people start to see each other differently over time but that is not something that happens online where its more of the instant gratification thing. You don't a chance to get to know someone if that initial attraction wasn't there. Maybe using that thought, some people shouldn't be online since it seems to be a sore spot with many here.
And another thing that seems to happen here is this notion that all the "shallows" are only interested in barbie doll types or male models which is a load of bull. Talk about going to the extreme. Its not about wanting a "10" or even an "8", its about looking for someone who you find attractive and thats pretty wide open. These so called "nicer types" who carry on about whats on the inside don't appear to have much more than bitterness and resentment in them. Maybe thats what their problem is and not so much the so called shallow crowd. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 10:31:06 AM | "I am talking about strickly physical and material things."
Alright then.Since you are talking about strictly physical then here we go.I'm not attracted to overweight/obese/few extra pounds men, neither am I attracted to blond haired men.So, I won't date them.No matter what.Do I have anything against them?No.I just don't prefer them.Therefore, it's a strict requirement too.I know that makes me shallow, now.But who cares.Atleast I'm upfront and not a hypocrite(not saying you are, but many are).Some people say looks don't matter, but they only say that to sound politicaly correct.
~*Flavia*~
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 12:02:05 PM | ^^ it's all cool to be upfront and honest thats a good thing. I don't have an issue with what you said and I guesse i think part of that is that i understand the age factor and that so it's ok.
I am also against hypocrisy when people say they won't judge you or are into one thig and then when you meet or when they see a pic or what not they turn and fleed. So it's always best to be pen about yourself either way. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 12:13:37 PM | The age factor?!? Are you kidding me mardioluv?? You're only about 6 years older than her and many of the women in their 20's are the same. And its not an age thing, if you think its bad at that age, wait till you get older and the women not only want someone attractive but they want financial stability, a certain career, and any of the other dozens of requirements they demand.
I always appreciated your posts but anymore you're just whining and pointing fingers at everyone for being shallow when most of the people you're accusing are simply stating some preferences. Just because you apparently don't care if your girl looks like a horses @ss doesn't mean the rest of us want that. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 12:28:37 PM |
The age factor?!? Are you kidding me mardioluv?? You're only about 6 years older than her and many of the women in their 20's are the same. And its not an age thing, if you think its bad at that age, wait till you get older and the women not only want someone attractive but they want financial stability, a certain career, and any of the other dozens of requirements they demand.
I always appreciated your posts but anymore you're just whining and pointing fingers at everyone for being shallow when most of the people you're accusing are simply stating some preferences. Just because you apparently don't care if your girl looks like a horses @ss doesn't mean the rest of us want that.
Well as you get older it is suppose to get better and thats what it should be like, just being honest and blunt, NOT whining. I don't know why some havn't treated you teh way you would have wanted them to treat you but again I expleained that in more detail elsewhere. i made my pont about everything clear, including the part about preference and requirment. They are different things.
Just because someone has a preference does not meen they have to reject those that are not of that type, especially when it comes to physically speaking. Now a requirment is different in that they will not date you because of something, and if it is related to something appearance wise, or laterial wise, then that is classified as narrowminded....why? because it shows that the person has very little character by overlooking the OTHER persons character and only judging them over something trivial that is unimportant in reality.
For example I have a preference, I prefer and lady with long dark brown to black hair, beautiful brown eyes or even light eyes, thats my preference, BUT if a girl that is short blond or red headed or even no hair comes to me and show that she is a great person and has a detailed and well established character, I WILL NOT reject her because she does not fit my physcial type. I would get to know her and where it goes. BUT if i did reject her because of only how she looked and no matter how everything else was no matter how great per character , trust, love and commitment is, if i rejected her over just her looks, than that would make me a shallow narrow minded person and that would mean that my preference is really a requirement. But I am not into judging someone over if they don't fit my personal preference. You don't have to be a long dark haired beautiful eyes, latina or middle eastern lady for me to like you. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 12:37:24 PM | but mardioluv4u, we're not talking about things like hair colour or length, we're talking about physical appearance, both facial and body. Those are big things. I don't know what you consider those to be, requirements or preferences? You can be the nicest person in the world but if the other person doesn't feel anything romantic for you because they find you too fat or just not attractive, then that should be okay.
And you hardly know my situation so you can stop assuming like you know so much. The more you prattle on, the less you appear to know. There's an old saying you might wish to consider, Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
I'm sorry my friend but you're just sounding bitter anymore. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 12:39:27 PM | No its not just whining and pointing fingers. People are here for the most part because they do not have, have not found what it is they NEED in a relationship to maintain it. That largely has to do with the fact that they are so caught up in what they think they want and confuse it for NEED.
To the largest degree people who are here are here because of failed relationships. Logic therefor indicates something was wrong and likely they do not know what it was. As you state more and more people have fallen for this false belief that they can demand things as precursers to relationships and actually have that workout in the end. Society is in a way becoming lost in a case of Stolkholm syndrome. I must find the person who looks the way I want no matter what it ends up doing to me.
What you want, what you need, what you get, and what you deserve are all matters indepenant of eachother. Open your eyes and live life, stop trying to demand and control it. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 12:49:52 PM | Are you proposing that people just take their hands off the wheel and let life just happen?? Isn't that just a recipe for disaster.
People are using online dating sites as another avenue to meet people, period. Some are using it as the be all end all for their dating lives and those are the sad people we try to avoid. Just about anybody over the age of 20 has been in at least failed relationship, its got nothing to do with why they're here. I'm afraid your logic escapes me. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 12:59:51 PM | Absolutely nothing wrong with being shallow!
Rosemary: Is that a Member's Only jacket?
Mauricio: Yes.
Rosemary: So what are you, the last member?
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Tony Robbins: Hal, don't you think you're being a bit shallow here in the way you look at women?
Hal: Well, no! You know, I'd like her to be into culture and shit, too.
Tony Robbins: Ok Hal, hypothetical situation; Which do you prefer, a girlfriend missing one breast or half a brain?
Hal: Hmmm, toughie. What about the remaining breast? Is it big?
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Hal: I bet on horses sometimes, but I don't really care about the money.
Rosemary: I never read that book.
Hal: What book?
Rosemary: Things losers say.
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 1:13:39 PM |
but mardioluv4u, we're not talking about things like hair colour or length, we're talking about physical appearance, both facial and body. Those are big things. I don't know what you consider those to be, requirements or preferences? You can be the nicest person in the world but if the other person doesn't feel anything romantic for you because they find you too fat or just not attractive, then that should be okay.
And you hardly know my situation so you can stop assuming like you know so much. The more you prattle on, the less you appear to know. There's an old saying you might wish to consider, Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
I'm sorry my friend but you're just sounding bitter anymore.
Thats why I think it's good to read all the posts from people to understand them better lol. I said that SOME things like a healthy body , hygien and how one dresses are UNDERSTANDABLE to exprect someone to do their best in those departments. I NEVER said anything against that. You say why? Because those things are not in and of themselves shallow to make a decision about someone over. There is NOTHINg worng with wanting someone who takes care of themsleves and has a god hygien it shows that they care for themselves. Even if that is a requirment to have soemone with good hygien and stuff, THat is understandable because those things ARE important. We all want soemone who smells nice, who has nice teeth and who takes care of themselves and it is more acceptable to make that a requirement because those things ARE important. But here is the things SOME things are NOT important and people that judge and make deal breakers out of certain things like hair, skinn colour, ethnicity, noise shape or whatever, see THOSE things are TRIVIAL and SHOULD NOT MATTER as much as hygien and health does, right?
I am not trying to make things confusing, i think I am being quiote clear, or atleast i would like to think that.
By the way , i am not bitter, but I would be lying to you if i said it didn't bother me when i see other good quality people being turned down over something silly and I just feel that it's god to adress these issues more and more because I know that many people are bothered by this and I have compassion what can I say. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 1:17:58 PM | shallow would be not wanting to talk to someone
on any level because of the car they drove or
the color of their hair/ eyes...
we are shallow in ways.. when it comes to who
we want to let into our personal ands private lives...
into our beds... etc.
Dating is not equal opportunity like a job would be...
but some go overboard in it. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 1:20:09 PM | Point taken my friend. I agree with things like noses, hair styles and colour, skin colour and that. I'm more referring to body shape and facial appearance overall. This is a real hot button topic and always will be. But you can't change how people feel about relationships and what they would like in a mate whether its superficial or not. Take comfort in knowing that these people will never find true love or happiness because you cannot find it using that criteria.
Here's an example i came across a while back on this and another site. There's this woman about 41 i think. She's good looking, blonde and definitely a head turner. But her profiles are the most egotistical things you'll ever read. She even talks about if she sends you a smile or a note that you should consider yourself lucky. I mean how conceited can someone be?
Anyway, I see this woman all the time in a club on Saturday nights and she's always with a female friend, never with a date. She knows many of the other regulars (men) but doesn't seem to have any romantic flings going on with any of them. About 3 weeks ago i spy her in the club with a date finally. Guess what this guy looks like? He's gotta be the prettiest man you've ever seen, can't be more than mid to late 20's and she's all over him like a schoolgirl crush. But just from observing this guy you can tell pretty easily that he's got nothing else going on but his looks. He had no personality at all and the way he strutted around the place you'd think the King of England had just walked in. At least it showed exactly what she was looking for. Is she shallow? Without a doubt.
Interesting sidenote....her profile was gone for a while during this time. Guess what? She's back. He must have dumped her. HAHAHAHAHAHA | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 1:25:58 PM | Point taken my friend. I agree with things like noses, hair styles and colour, skin colour and that. I'm more referring to body shape and facial appearance overall. This is a real hot button topic and always will be. But you can't change how people feel about relationships and what they would like in a mate whether its superficial or not. Take comfort in knowing that these people will never find true love or happiness because you cannot find it using that criteria.
I agree body shape is ok and we all like a nice face and a genuine smile that just radiates from the heart.
Yeah and that girl you mentioned is SHALLOW big time and won't get far at all with that attitude she will not be able to have genuine love for someone like that.
Rain- thats my point, if we refuse to talk to anyone for silly reasons like that and not even try to get to know them that is.... you guessed it shallow. There are some things that are ok to expect out of a person, like good hygien and just evidence that the person cares abotu themselves you know. But things that people don't have control over or can't help or are trivial I stay away from those things........ why?......cause there trivial and that would make me what?.... lol guessed it shallow and narrow minded and superficial which all equally boring. | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 1:39:51 PM | Shallow is possessing dating behaviors TOTALLY STEEPED WITH SUPERFICIALITY.
For instance, I am attracted to intelligent, book-smart women with long hair, fit bodies, preferably un-tattooed. These are all SUPERFICIAL physical and personality qualities.
I would be SHALLOW if I followed these rules all the time to the T when "sizing up" my date prospects.
So I admit to being attracted to SUPERFICIAL qualities in women. I believe we all have certain qualities that we are attracted to on either a conscious or subliminal level.
Your dating behavior becomes SHALLOW when you carefully react to your SUPERFICIAL dating requirements on a CONSCIOUS level.
Being shallow at a subconscious level is bad, but not as bad as being TOTALLY COGNIZANT that you never violate your superficial requirements.
Like a lady saying she never dates shorter guys. THAT'S SHALLOW.
Like a dude saying he only dates large breasted women. THAT'S SHALLOW.
A good question is: Is a guy shallow when he states "I never date shallow women."  | |
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| What is shallow, really?
Posted: 6/16/2006 1:41:16 PM | ROFL if you had any idea of my background you'ld realize how funny "proposing that people take their hands off the wheel" is. No what I am proposing is more akin to being a pilot to being a car driver. When you fly your eyes can and do often decieve you. You need to fly not just with your eyes but with the instrumentation that tells you that up really is up and down really is down etc. The problem most have this day an age is that they are soo busy with what their eyes are telling them they don't realize they are crashing into the ground.
"People are using online dating sites as another avenue to meet people, period." You are correct they are, but the point of doing that was to meet people you would not have otherwise. Hence you are given an oppertunity to do something you cannot do in life. Find out who someone is and what they are about without the normal social and societal pressures. The reason these sites used to work fairly well was people got to see a profile and peoples interests and be able to connect to that and work from there. Not seeing what someone looked like at least at first. You might have found sans an initial viewing that someone out there was exactly the kind of person you wanted to know.
Then you might have exchanged photos and yes maybe something was there maybe something wasn''t but was still friendly. Or maybe not at all. Now however people are just listing out what they think they want looking at the pictures for what they want and ignoring everything that would actually make for a relationship to succeed or not. THAT's where the shallow is comming in. Not ever experiencing something outside of your preconcieved notion of life.
As for people who use it as there be all and end all, how would you know? What equips you to judge if they are sad people or not? Trust me in advance.. you aren't qualified. | |
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