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| Do We Need Organized Religion Today?
Posted: 6/16/2009 7:16:53 PM |
Why do we need organisation?
It helps to have a standard of morality in a society. These days government supplies a defacto standard, but the legal field does everything it can to blur the lines and establish privileges for the few. Teachers are ill equipped to provide the moral backbone of our dysfunctional society, IMO. | |
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| Do We Need Organized Religion Today?
Posted: 6/17/2009 6:35:41 AM | | ^^^ If organisation is a good thing, in any endeavour, such as schools, police, hospitals, HMOs, businesses, then surely it be a good thing in everything, including religion, yes? | |
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| Do We Need Organized Religion Today?
Posted: 6/17/2009 10:56:56 AM | ^^
It is a good thing if you are one of the members. If they are organized against you.....
Not so good. I am an individualist because I broke the mold of most organized religions, and other people don't see the metaphorical representation which I do. They can read Moby D-ick and see that the whale is an addiction, but they can't read the Bible and see that Satan is the creator of lies, ie. a disruptive element of personality, and not an actual entity.
Satan plays tricks - inyour mind. An Aspie like you should see it though, unless you have an emotional attachment to your religion. It's only logical unless you believe in Red Horned characters with pitchforks, bunnies who lay eggs, and Jolly fat men who give out presents. I actually believe in all of them. Metaphorically. But it wasn't until I met the leprechaun, and he showed me the pot of Gold, when I because a true believer. Aye.
I was looking at the pot and he said those aren't peices of Gold Laddie. Those are the sins you were forgiven. I said, "That is enough gold for me."
I am not the best at knowing right from wrong, but when the leprechaun points, I follow. | |
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| Do We Need Organized Religion Today?
Posted: 6/17/2009 5:17:05 PM | RE Msg: 30 by 2hi-iq-4u:
It is a good thing if you are one of the members. If they are organized against you.....
Not so good. Very true. Tribalism can be deadly, for those not of the tribe. Even for those of the tribe, if you dare speak against one of the tribal taboos.
but they can't read the Bible and see that Satan is the creator of lies, ie. a disruptive element of personality, and not an actual entity.
Satan plays tricks - inyour mind. An Aspie like you should see it though, unless you have an emotional attachment to your religion. It's only logical unless you believe in Red Horned characters with pitchforks, bunnies who lay eggs, and Jolly fat men who give out presents. I actually believe in all of them. Metaphorically. It is ironic you say this, because in my religion, Judaism, Satan has at least 4 names:
1) The evil inclination, for he sits in your mind, and whispers for you to do evil. In the winter, he tells you that it is too cold to get out and do good. In the summer, he tells you that it is too hot for you to go running around, doing good. He is the voice that tells you to not exercise, when you know it is good for your body to be healthy. He is the voice that tells you to eat unhealthy foods. He is the voice that tells you that "no-one can succeed in business without being corrupt". He is the voice that tells you that you are wrong to be happy, for happiness brings an ease to do good, and a joy to others. He is the voice that tells you to kill yourself, the day before your ship comes in.
2) The adversary, for he is the one who puts difficulties in your path when you want to do good. Satan = adversary in Hebrew.
3) The prosecutor, for he is the one who calls in the heavenly courts for you to be punished to the harshest regard, and presents the arguments to support those punishments.
4) The angel of death, for in addition to all that, he is the one who takes souls from their bodies and carries them to the heavenly courts for judgement.
So you see, from my religion, the Satan IS the Yeter Hara, the evil inclination.
I am an individualist because I broke the mold of most organized religions, and other people don't see the metaphorical representation which I do. They can read Moby D-ick and see that the whale is an addiction, Most people might consider Moby Dick an addiction. But how many addicts get to own their own ship, and run their own crew?
The lessons of Moby Dick are humility and moderation. Ahab is the arrogant extremist. He is the best whaler on the seas. But it is not enough for him to be the best. Ahab wants nothing less than to be unbeatable. G-d has given man an unparalleled ability, to kill every whale he comes across. But G-d declares that even though man can kill every whale he sees, there is one whale that he cannot. Man may dominate nature. But G-d dominates man. His white whale, is the message that man is not omnipotent, that he has limits, and he must learn to respect that there are times when he will win, and times to accept that there are some battles that he cannot win. Ahab, in refusing to accept that he has limits, defies G-d. He claims that there is nothing he cannot accomplish, no whale he cannot kill. He is the arrogant businessman, who refuses to accept defeat, and must win every battle, every sale, even if it means the loss of his company, his employees, even his life. His ego is more important to him, than even causing harm and death to others. Ahab, in taking his desire to kill Moby Dick to extremes, makes an idol of him.
In this respect, Ahab is like King Ahab, for Ahab killed all the prophets, save one, Elijah, who was saved by G-d. Moby Dick is Elijah, for though Moby Dick is a vengeful whale, he is dressed in white, the colour of purity in Europe. It is Ahab who is dressed all in black, the European and American colour of mourning and death. Ahab can no more defeat Moby Dick than King Ahab can kill Elijah, for both have G-d on their side. King Ahab is evil, because he seeks to conquer everything, even to conquer truth. Ahab is the same, for he seeks to conquer every whale, even that which all whalers say cannot be done, and possibly, should not be done. G-d comes along and says to both, you may dominate all that ye see. But ye shall not conquer Me. | |
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| Do We Need Organized Religion Today?
Posted: 6/19/2009 9:43:25 AM |
Very true. Tribalism can be deadly, for those not of the tribe. Even for those of the tribe, if you dare speak against one of the tribal taboos.
Tribalism isn't necessarily any more dangerous than any other form of social organization. In fact, it can be signficantly LESS dangerous, as it's customs are generally quite clear to those born within it ... and no less clear to an out-group than any other out-groups.
Naturally, when any group of people stand agaisnt a lone individual it's going to go poorly for the isolated individual. In fact, whenever the individual stands alone he is at a signficant disadvantage. And this is something true all the way back to Neanderthal times ... the lone individual is vulnerable. The state of being isolated is dangerous.
To center tribalism out as being somehow more dangerous a form of social organization is simply not true, and definitely not fair. In fact, it isn't social organization that can be deadly for the individual when it gets right down to it. It is isolationism ... being isolated from the group ... though even that has it's uses when social provisions are made for it.
Predators attempt to isolate individuals from the goup. Conquest is achieved via division.
In terms of religion, isolation CAN be a bad idea, when the greater or complete significance is placed on it, due to man's social nature and the inherently social nature of culture and belief. Shared beliefs help unite people on a deeper level. They place us in touch with the notion of something that exists that is bigger than us ... something that is not our personal plaything and must be respected.
I suppose what it all really breaks down to is this ... Man is a social animal. And he/she is at his/her best, both physically and psychologically, when his/her nature is respected. Not respecting it causes stress. And the build up of stress, with isolation being a HUGE stressor for a social animal, results in the emergeance of all sorts of physical and psychological pathologies ... some of which are "odd" and some of which are down right dangerous/criminal.
As the Anglo-Saxon Rune Poem states, "Man rejoices in man." | |
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| Do We Need Organized Religion Today?
Posted: 6/20/2009 3:49:50 PM | RE Msg: 32 by JMars:
Very true. Tribalism can be deadly, for those not of the tribe. Even for those of the tribe, if you dare speak against one of the tribal taboos. Tribalism isn't necessarily any more dangerous than any other form of social organization.
I suppose what it all really breaks down to is this ... Man is a social animal. And he/she is at his/her best, both physically and psychologically, when his/her nature is respected. Not respecting it causes stress. And the build up of stress, with isolation being a HUGE stressor for a social animal, results in the emergeance of all sorts of physical and psychological pathologies ... some of which are "odd" and some of which are down right dangerous/criminal.
As the Anglo-Saxon Rune Poem states, "Man rejoices in man." I would agree that when tribal groupings in any society respect both the other members of that group and those outside of the group, then this benefits all. I have seen in Mea Sharim, an ultra-religious area where all are required to cover their arms and legs, as well as the torso, that they have large signs at every point of entry to the area, in all the languages commonly spoken in the country, along with clear pictures that indicate the same, making it very clear to all what the rules are before you enter the area. I define that as respect, for even though I do not observe their dress code, it made it easy for me to know what to do in their area, and that kept me out of trouble.
However, in other areas around the world, there are no indications or signs of what the ground rules of the area are, and I almost got myself into serious trouble as a result.
As long as we are all willing to ensure that those of us who are not in the tribal group, are fully aware of the ground rules, and how to follow them easily, then I see no problem in that. It's when we are allowed to enter the area without knowledge, but then are held accountable for breaking rules that we either did not know, or had no idea on how to fulfil, that we find those rules offensive, as it is like being fined for parking in a zone where there are no signs that you cannot park there. | |
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| Do We Need Organized Religion Today?
Posted: 6/20/2009 4:46:00 PM |
However, in other areas around the world, there are no indications or signs of what the ground rules of the area are, and I almost got myself into serious trouble as a result.
Yeah. That's not cool. It's actually quite rude and inhospitable. It borders on entrapment.
But you know, having been to neighbourhoods like that myself (lol), I think that some of this really has to fall on the shoulders of the "guest". We should know better, and not be so quick to presume either sameness between us and the locals, or presume our own entitlement to be there. It's always best to be a real guest, ie. of one of the locals, and the more powerful the host the better.
It's certainly not in the best interest of a tribe to isolate and alienate itself from it's neighbours. And for the same reasons it isn't so good for the individual to be alienated from his tribe. There is just too much to be gained by getting along, and too much to lose by refusing too. | |
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| Do We Need Organized Religion Today?
Posted: 9/15/2009 9:08:58 PM | The only Unorganized Religion still is Nihilism
No God
No Religion
No Rules
No Morals
No Ethics
Denial of all Humanity
Other than them there is only Organized Religion - and don't say Athiest - they have a growing organizational ties and "Churches" called Freethought Societies.
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| Do We Need Organized Religion Today?
Posted: 9/21/2009 2:17:13 AM |
Why is it necessary to go to church if you believe in God and the Bible?
Because if you believe in the Bible, you believe in these verses from it...
Hebrews 10:25
Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
Romans 12:5
... so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. (NIV)
1 Corinthians 12:12
The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. (NIV)
1 Corinthians 12:14-23
Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. (NIV)
1 Corinthians 12:27
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. (NIV)
1 Thessalonians 5:11
Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. (NIV)
James 5:16
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. (NIV)
1 Peter 5:1-4
To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder ... Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. (NIV)
Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you. (NIV)
Luke 4:16
He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. (NIV) | |
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| Do We Need Organized Religion Today?
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:52:07 PM | I realize it's a valid discussion, but the question is flawed, no?
Who is "we"? All of humankind?
"We" rarely all need the same thing, save for food, water, etc. My mother, for example, needs organized religion nearly as badly as to breathe, but I personally have no use for it. That said, I am very glad that she is happier for having organized religion in her life so indirectly it does even benefit me. There are also many ways organized religion negatively impacts my life and so on the whole for me, I'd call it a wash.
So to answer the question verbatim, no, we don't need organized religion because not all of us do. | |
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| Do We Need Organized Religion Today?
Posted: 10/21/2009 11:12:08 AM | The question is flawed on two fronts.
First, "organized religion" is a red herring, meant to dissuade believers (of any sort) of the validity of their beliefs and shame them into being part of a herd and not having a mind of their own. Second, the very nature of "religion" implies some sort of organization and community. Other wise it's just a lone person's belief system and not a "religion."
Personally, as a Christian, I'm all into community and organization. First, it's a support system of like minded individuals who have been called in one way or another. Second, having a common spiritual base, common beliefs, common Scripture, etc (oh, yeah, common Savior . . .) within this community provides me with assurance that should I err in my dogma or walk those who care about me will bring me back within the fold (All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness). There are times that is a blessing. Other times when I desire to go my own way it can be a pain in the rear.
I, for one, am not ashamed that I am part of an organized spiritual body. For were I responsible for my own salvation I would not be justified. As a sinner it is humbling and a blessing to know that God cared enough that He provided a way to reconciliation, He provided His Word for my benefit, and called me to Him. Since He has done this over and over with countless others, I am part of His Body, His Church, His organization. Nothing will tear me away from that, though I sin and perhaps deny Him in word and deed, I will always be his. Call me what you will; I call me saved.
TK
{organization is like a warm blanket on a cold night; sure, it's a little restrictive, but it is warm and comfortable in all the right ways - I like my blankee} | |
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| Do We Need Organized Religion Today?
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:24:43 PM | | ^ Good for you. I'm happy for anyone who finds what they need in life. And I personally need to NOT have organized religion in my life. There's no right or wrong, there's just what works for each individual. Shouldn't it be that simple? Who cares what anyone else believes? | |
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| Do We Need Organized Religion Today?
Posted: 10/31/2009 12:39:46 PM | | hi... God has His People/Church on earth.. God wants His People to come into His House so that they can be around likeminded company vs worldly company.. God is Organized and so is His Mission so we come together in Church to be taught by Gods Spirit and to fellowship with one another while all the while gaining strength for His Mission... blessings | |
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