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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 2:39:58 PM | | Yes, but have you gotten a recent picture of your lungs? Not trying to be a smartass....but just a very simple question. | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 2:48:50 PM | EVerything gives you cancer... cancer hits almost everybody in one way or another
and it's gonna come for you too ... sooner or later . Smoker or non smoker. Something is gonna kill you one way or another.
The key is everything in moderation. There is things right now that may be supposedly healthy but just wait a decade ... I;m sure the studies will show as well that it was bad for you in some form .
You think tuna is good for you right ? Well they recently stated that Tuna from a tin can can now cause cancer...
If your so scared of unhealthy things well you better not eat anything or drink anything or smoke anything and never leave your house because the sun is bad for you too and you can just die now rather than later .. How's that ?? | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 2:55:51 PM | The majority of those who were never smokers who develop lung cancer were subjected to second-hand smoke. Of those in the minority who were not, the cause is often radon, a naturally occurring gas that comes from the earth, or the lung cancer is an undiagnosed metastasis from a cancer occurring elsewhere in the body. BTW, tobacco use is a major risk factor in the formation of many cancers--kidney, bladder, esophagus, oral, etc.
Something else for you fellows to think about--You may say cancer, heart attack, stroke, vascular disease, so what? Everyone dies from something. To which I say, think about what smoking can cause that doesn't kill you.
Smoking is one of the biggest contributors to erectile dysfunction. | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 2:57:03 PM | | Just enjoy your life and stop worrying so much and over-analysing everything to death .. because that will kill you too . | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 3:12:42 PM | Though a part of me had wished this thread had been deleted (and I almost voted on it), a greater part of me is glad it remained so that "a anti-smoking-lobbyist-brainwashed automaton" like myself could shoot down your blatant ignorance (or attempt thereof because your choice of words indicates education, despite the argument they're trying to convey):
i wasnt debating it affects others, i know how badly booze affects ppl i dated the odd drunk, ergo i dot touch it myself, let them destroy there livers i dont care,but i dont force my views on them an d try n get the price of there habit, but nothing is being done against boozers, yet everyting is being done to make it more difficult to smoke, there is a middle ground, sure make us smoke outside, but why make it 10 bux a pack to do it, personally i dotn even goto non smoking places i refuse to support em unless theres no choice
funny how society accepts one type of bigot n not another
1) Cost: Funny thing is, alcohol does have a sin tax... Ever heard of duty-free?! I shave off approximately a third off the cost of a bottle of gin when I fly back from a business trip... Also part of the increased cost was not only to render it a prohibitive vice for adults, but more so for teenagers. If you've got a job you can afford your smokes, try doing it on a McDonald's salary... 
2) Personal Harm: Alcohol can damage your liver, but that's a long-term problem and you have to be a pretty hardcore alcoholic over a long period of time to achieve that. The liver is one of the body's most regenerative organs, and you only need approximately 10% of it to actually function normally if you're not filtering 40 ounces of Vodka trough it on a daily basis.
3) Action against alcoholics: Every hear of a little association called M.A.D.D.? (Mothers against drunk driving). They've been lobbying for years against intoxicated drivers, and can partially be accredited with the increased punishment for drunk drivers, such as: immediate licence revocation, heavy fines, jail time (even if you didn't kill someone, you may be subject to a short-term incarceration), and possible charges of man-slaughter when they ACTUALLY kill someone... 
The last time I checked not a single smoker has yet to be charged with "manslaughter by second-hand smoke", so I think your persecution complex is a little off-kilter... 
4) "More non-smokers come down with cancer than smokers": I can't even begin to point out the ludicrous nature of this statement, instead I shall offer you a free math tutorial: In Ontario most studies report that 1 in 5 adults smoke, i.e. 20%. That means there are 4 non-smokers out of every 5 people on average. Given the fact that there are numerous types of cancer, many of which have nothing to do with smoking, and that there are FOUR times as many non-smokers as smokers, wouldn't it make sense that FOUR times as many non-smokers are diagnosed with cancer of some form?
If you want a true stat that bears some actual relation to smoking and its dangers, look up what fraction of victims of pulmonary illness OR lung cancer consist of smokers versus non-smokers... I think you'll find the scales a little "skewed" compared to the natural distribution of the population...
Well that's about enough education for the time being, I wouldn't want to overwhelm you by exposing ALL the flaws in your rants at one time...  | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 3:38:22 PM | | Cancer cures smoking. | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 3:40:19 PM | funny thing is that your attempt at ridiculing me has only ridiculed yourself, wherever your lil stats or ideas come from in almosty certain they come from an anti smoking organization whose mandate it is to blame everything from cancer to dirty dishes on smoking.you whine u dont like the smell of smoke yet u comtinue to goto bars to drink even though smoking is present there, making your arguements and insinuations moot,if you as u say are so concerned with your health why go there? why not stay at home in your segregated lilbox with fresh oxygen being pumped in thru the vents,do u also whine when forest fire smoke comes thru the area?
all those studies are ludicrous there have never been any true leads to state 100% that smoking is the cause of cancer
cancer is genetic not a disease, either your body will get it or it wont, asbestos causes lung cancer as well, when that 911 thing happened all them air quality guys told ppl the air was fine for breathing, not once did ya hear em mention the fact that the wtc was packed full of asbestos and the ppl in the area were highly exposed to asbestos.u heard of asbestosis and silicosis, all forms of lung cancer
there area multitude of cancers out there and to wholy blame cancer on a simple cigarette is just blind
and as far as your statement in #2 alcohol harming the liver. do some research alcohol damages every organ in your body including your brain, alcohol has caused more death and suffering thruout history than anything else maybe save religion.
i do however notice u didnt mention anything about benzene or co2 emissions, i assume by u leaving that out u are a driver of a vehicle and are unwilling to admit that u being a non smoker are just as much of a cancer causer as any smoker out there but can justify it by the adage of its a necessary evil
in closing, we all contribute to the problems , but some of us choose to place the blame on distinct groups
smoking relaxxing a person is a proven fact ,
i nvr set out to defend smoking, that wasnt my objective but since the few obstinate individuals would choose to blame all the worlds ailments on smoking i felt i had to defend my point of view.myself im glad ppl are stopping smoking i intend to as well, i dontthink its discusting altho i agree its a bad habit,sorta like them ppl that eat sunflower seeds n spit the seeds everywhere
now to me thats a discusting habit even tho perhaps sunflower seeds may be healthy | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 3:47:52 PM | Tubb I agree with Tigerwoods on a certain level..
You have to be a seriously hardcore alcoholic over a very long period of time to become in that state.. most alcoholic beverages in moderation can actually be good for you .. IN MODERATION !!!
I am a smoker myself but I do agree that smoking is actually worst than drinking .. NOT in extreme cases such as you mentioned with a girl from your past but under normal circumstances. Your ex took this to a very extreme level which is not normal and most casual drinkers will never experience this.. nothing even close. | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 3:50:12 PM | DAMN IT!!!! Arctickristal.....has me all paranoid now!!!!
Im gunna die...IM GUNNA DIE...
I need cigarette!!! | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 4:23:11 PM | It doesn't make you smarter.
It doesn't make you faster.
It doesn't make you more money.
It doesn't make you look better.
It doesn't make you last longer in bed.
It doesn't bring you good luck.
It does stain your finger and teeth.
It does stink up your clothes, car, and hair.
It does increase wrinkles.
It does increase your risks of cancer.
It does cost you money.
It does stigmatize you.
And apparently smoking even somehow has an ability to increase denial. | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 4:32:48 PM | If anybody is confused over what moderation is it's 1 or 2 glasses in a 24 hours period.. I personally like to have a drink with my dinner on most nights.. which is why my profile says often 3 + times a week in my profile . Dosent mean I go out and get drunk 3 times a week ... There is a dictinct difference.
I also only smoke 1-4 smokes on a daily basis .. myself and my doctor agree that this is a fair moderation..
The same goes for all things that are put into your body or activities enjoyed.... there is an extreme in all forms.. same with sex.. sex is healthy and enjoyable activity and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it .. but turn it into an addiction or manipulated and it can become an ugly unhealthy obsession or choose not to play it safe and be reckless with yourself and/or other people and it can ruin your life...
The same goes with every aspect of your life.. Just strive for a balanced lifestyle and enjoy the time that you are alive ... | |
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kmhstx
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Joined: 8/23/2005
Msg: 62 | |
| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 5:06:44 PM | OMG....lol Cancer is genetic...either you will or you won't get it!!!!!!! You are saying you know better than thousand of the world greatest minds. doctors and scientists and researchers....some I'm sure who smoke too. lol so they are "Anti-smoking", who have been doing research for decades. That the only reason a person gets cancer is because they are genetically predisposed to it? That is the only factor? REALLY? Seriously?
Our genes play a part our environment plays a part......depending on the type of cancer genes plays more of a roll, but envirnoment is still a major factor. What has to happen for cancer to start is a mutation of the DNA that the cell does not fix....how does that mutation occur......many times because of damage to the DNA. The DNA is damaged by many things...with skin cancer its the sun often times. With breast cancer it might just be that you have a faulty gene to start off with. With oral cancers often times alcohol abuse can be the damaging factor. With lung cancer the majority of the time it is the chemicals from cigarrettes that causes that damage. It acts as a trigger. Once the mutation..or mutations occur..mutations the specifically end up by several mechanisms...contribute to uncontrolled cell growth....voila cancer. (this is very general, and simpistic).
OP you can smoke all you want I don't care. If I want to go out to a bar, relax, dance with friends and meet new people Hell yes I want to go the a smoke free environment...why. Not because I'm scared I will get lung cancer. Because smoking stinks, irritates my eyes, and makes me cough alot. What is so wrong with wanting to have fun out in public. Most places in my province have patios and you can smoke outside with the other smokers you can all have a fun time together. Before the laws passed you had to put up with the smoke...and it wasn't fun..there were not NON smoking bars....it wasn't something they could reenforce with out the new laws in place. | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 5:23:33 PM | | The way this works is actually quite insane by regular standards. but If you treat your body like shit nothing can grow in it like cancer ( it's too polluted ). once you become healthy it is a perfect place for diseases to grow. it is a fact that more people who quit smoking develop cancer a few years after quitting. go figure. | |
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kmhstx
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Joined: 8/23/2005
Msg: 64 | |
| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 5:41:17 PM |
The way this works is actually quite insane by regular standards. but If you treat your body like shit nothing can grow in it like cancer ( it's too polluted ). once you become healthy it is a perfect place for diseases to grow. it is a fact that more people who quit smoking develop cancer a few years after quitting. go figure.
This is because cancer is not detectable until it has grown to about the size of a pea....which can take 8 yo 15 years....depending on the cancer....which is why most people have cancer detected later in life....Yes quitting can add years, but sometimes the damage has been done..you just don't see it until later. | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 8:37:22 PM | funny thing is that your attempt at ridiculing me has only ridiculed yourself, wherever your lil stats or ideas come from in almosty certain they come from an anti smoking organization whose mandate it is to blame everything from cancer to dirty dishes on smoking.
Actually trubblemakr what's funny is that instead of actually trying to counter the things in my post, you choose to spout the same tired rhetroic over and over again that you have done in this thread with ANYONE that has disagreed with you... Once again allow me to shoot down your allegations, since I'm convinced now more than ever that you started this thread simply to be a sh|t disturber...
1) Suspicious stats: The only stat I quoted you was one out of the newspaper I read once on an article summarizing Ontario health surveys, where they cited roughly 1 out of 5 adults smokes and that number is on the decline...
2) Hating smoke in bars: I actually DID curtail my outings to bars when i lived in Montreal... Fortunately once I moved to Toronto, they can't smoke in bars here so I have no problems going out and dancing the night away, SOBER I might add... I have the same bottle of gin I bought from the airport example I mentioned, and it is for when guests visit and is as yet, unopened...
3) "Blaming smoking as the cause of all cancer": I never said anything as ridiculous as smoking is the sole cause of cancer... Only an idiot would blame something like bowel cancer on smoking... (though in your case perhaps you inhale from that particular orifice since you certainly seem to be speaking OUT of it... Cancer can attack any part of the body, and genes certainly render some people more susceptible to certain areas than others... That being said, as I posted to you before, I defy you to go to a hospital yourself and research their stats on lung disease patients (not even necessarily lung cancer), and see if the ratio of smoking patients to non-smoking patients matches the smoking percentage of the population... No artifical facts here my friend, I'm encouraging you to go directly to the source and see for yourself, as you'll never believe ANYTHING we brainwashed lobbyists tell you...
4) Asbestos: Funny thing is, nobody realized the dangers of asbestos at first (or somebody did and didn't feel like telling anyone), however once they traced it to people getting sick, they pulled it out of public buildings such as schools, hospitals etc...
5) Alcohol causing more death and destruction: If it is indeed true that alcohol has caused more death, it is most likely for two reasons:
a) alcohol has been around Europeans a heck of a lot longer than tobacco (recall you were introduced to it by the Native Americans, all you had before that was opium and maybe hashish...) and
b) deaths cannot be as easily linked to cigarettes as they can alcohol, as people don't die from cigarettes, they die from diseases and health complications that may have been caused or exacerbated BY smoking... It's hard to draw a direct line to a specific cigarette whereas a drunk diving off of a building is a pretty open and shut case...
I will give you that alcohol damages other organs of the body, but once again these are long-term effects from chronic abuse, the same as smoking...
6) Benzene & CO2 emissions: Ah yes, the greenhouse gas red herring you continuously choose to tout to detract attention from the issue being debated... FYI, I don't own a car, I ride the bus to work and I bike during the summer. I live on top of a subway station and as of yet have failed to find a justifiable reason for wasting money on a car at this point...  I have a driver's licence though, so I guess that makes me quasi-evil...
Oh and while car exhaust is certainly far from healthy to inhale, it usually isn't packed with arsenic, cyanide, nicotine, and other noxious substances... (I'm not going to bother posting the chemical reactions for octane, ethanol, and other hydrocarbons)
In closing here's the one and ONLY bone I'll throw you: any person that tries to blame ALL forms of cancer on smoking is idiot, but if you think there is even one health benefit to being a smoker, or that your actions do not affect the bystanders around you in a negative way, you are dreaming... If they invented a self-contained cigarette I wouldn't even bother posting here, smoke yourself to death for all I care... But so long as my own health is at risk just by being near you, I consider it an act of war and will respond accordingly... | |
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Joy.
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Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 66 | |
| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 9:57:00 PM | I do not have lung cancer or any type of cancer associated with smoking as I have never been a smoker. I do, however, have to go thru the same types of treatment that those who are diagnosed with smoking related cancers go thru. I think anyone who believes that smoking cannot lead to cancer is fooling themself but that is a choice each person has to make on their own.
What I would like to say is that if you could spend a day in a radiation waiting room or in a chemo infusion room, you would be shocked and saddened. Three out of four people that I have met there are being treated for a smoking-related cancer. Some have voice boxes as they lost theirs due to cancer. Others have permanent feeding tubes as their esophagus was completely damaged and they can no longer swallow food. One gentleman I met, had lost half of his face due to cancer in his jaw, caused by smoking. It was heart-wrenching. There are so many others but I'll spare the gruesome details.
Since I was diagnosed on December 15, 2005 with stage 4 ovarian cancer, I have been thru various CT scans, PET scans, bone scans, a heart scan, brain scan, bone marrow biopsy (which is incredibly brutal and extremely painful). I have had two surgeries and have been thru 6 weeks (5x a week) of radiation treatments. I still have 3rd degree burns from the radiation that are healing. I am halfway thru my chemo treatments and can tell you it is hell on earth. I lost my hair on the 15th day after my first treatment which I have one every 3 weeks. For the two weeks immediately following, I am pretty much in bed. I have deep bone pain in my legs and arms, constant nausea and vomiting, neuropathy (loss of feeling) in my fingers and toes which is irreversible, my skin has a greyish hue to it. My nails are brittle, grey and I have even lost a few of them. I am constantly dehydrated and have to go in 3x a week for IV liquids. My white and red blood counts are VERY low so I take a shot every other week. One cost $3000 and the other $6000. My basic bodily functions are compromised and I have irreversible kidney damage due to the chemo. I cannot shop, run errands or do just the simple daily tasks I used to do. I have to avoid crowds as I am susceptible to picking up infections. I have been hospitalized twice in the past few weeks with pneumonia because I did not listen to my dr!
From Dec 15 thru the end of May, my insurance company has paid out a total of $187,915 and I personally am out close to $15,000. I have had to quit my job as I was unable to perform my regular duties and am now on disability. I have lost 1/2 of my income.
I feel compelled to say all of this because I truly do not think most smokers realize what they will face IF they are ever diagnosed with cancer. It is no walk in the park. I would think quitting and the withdrawals from doing so are far less bothersome or painful. I guess if just one person reads this and is helped by it, it will be worthwhile.
Finally, even though I am going thru hell now, I am fully confidant that I will overcome this. I will beat cancer and will live my life cancer free. I will see my grandson grow up. I will return to the workforce. I will meet someone and fall in love and have a long, beautiful life together. Not everyone who is diagnosed will make it, I understand that....but without hope I wouldn't make it either. To me, hope means life. I will do everything in my power to make sure I have a long, healthy life. Just as every cigarette a person smokes is a life or death decision, I feel that every bite of food I take is a life or death decision. The correct choices in food can certainly heal our bodies.
I am not trying to come accross as holier than thou or to speak to every kind of cancer. Mine is purely genetic, many others are as a result of our environment and others are the result of a poor diet. I just thought I'd pass some info along in hopes that it might help someone. So sorry for the length of this.... | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 10:34:40 PM | My mother died of a brain tumor she never smoked or drank ever in her life.
My father died of kidney cancer caused by asbestosis from when chryslers asked him politely to remove the covering from the pipes in the plant , (Back in the 70's they didn't know about the hazards)
My aunt died recently from ovarian
My ex girlfriend has breast cancer and will have it removed.
My sisters friend has skin cancer and doesn't know what it means yet. but it's bad .
Yeah I smoke and yes I drink but what is the difference when you look at the statistics of it . If you get it you get it. there is no law off averages. It just hits you when it hits you. | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 10:38:01 PM | Heard sumthin on one of the 24 hour news shows that smoking might have some health benefits. 24 hour news shows bore the piss outa me, so i didn't really listen.
I have read in other threads that non-smokers are about 10xs more likely to be strangled, than smokers. That might be one of the benefits of smoking
Smoke if ya gottem!!!!
:smoking: | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 10:50:16 PM | weird double post
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 11:00:27 PM | hmm wel ur perfumes and ur makeups stink to , as do ur sweaty bodies on the dance floors. if the reason is offensive orours kerry then why draw the line at smokers?how bout the 5 lbs of cancerous makeup most bar women load on themselves or the aluminum sulphate yas all rub under ur armpits to stop em from perspiring, cmon i mean really,i dont mind goin for a smoke outside occasionally but instead of making it a clean slate why not make smoking and non smoking bars and coffee shops, that would make it comfortable for everyone instead merely satisfying the certain few whiners who whined the loudest
and tiger everyone knows ontario is the pollution capital of canada, i mean cmon u read something once in a newspaper so now its ur religious doctrine?
Benzene & CO2 emissions: Ah yes, the greenhouse gas red herring
for ur lil interest. benzene is a cancerous gas in gasoline , i dunno where ur mind goes into the greenhouse gas concept , obviously u arent as intelligent as u pretend since u havent got a clue as to the cancerous effects of the regular stuff we all use on a daily basis
tobacco was smoked in babylon btw and earlier then the indians,
and asbestos was a known carcinogen when it was first implemented into insulation 70 odd yrs ago
asbestos has been illegal a long time and been replaced with a silicon fibre which is twice as deadly a carcinogen and causes silicosis
which is another form of lung cancer
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 11:04:41 PM | living will kill us all.
that being said , I have had the pleasure of seeing a smokers lung up close and personal and it was gross! I do think things are getting a bit militant , bars/restaurants have spent tons of money creating "smoking" rooms etc and now it doesn't matter because they can't use them!
stupid really.
It's not for me to judge, I've dyed my hair - that supposedly causes an increase in bladder cancer, I drink socially - could be doing more damage to my liver than I think , I've used baby powder which rumour has it can also cause cancer. What about drinkers? overeaters? illegal drug users? | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 11:25:48 PM | My name is Amanda Rees and I'm a smoke-aholic. My problem isn't that I can't quit, it's that I don't want to. Boo hoo you babies, you only live once and we're all gonna die anyway. How the hell did this thread last this long?
Ciao | |
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| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 11:29:39 PM |
EVerything gives you cancer...
It's true, too much of anything can give you cancer. Apparently there;s a new study stating that even people who eat too many apples are susceptible to cancer, isn't that rediculous?
ciao | |
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Joy.
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Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 74 | |
| non smokers
Posted: 6/21/2006 11:57:54 PM | While yes it is true that MANY things can cause cancer.....things we cannot avoid, smoking related cancers are 100% preventable.
I told my story mainly to show the impact of the disease not only physically but financially as well. There is also an emotional cost as it is also devastating to family members especially if you are financially responsible for that family. I am fortunate in the fact that my daughter is grown and married so I am only responsible for myself. If I had a family to support and found myself in this position, I cannot imagine how we would survive. If you only have yourself to think about and can afford cancer should you be stricken with it, then by all means smoke away. I am a firm believer that we have to live our lives the way we want to live them and by our own rules. I am not suggesting anyone quit, if it is something you enjoy. Just wanted to bring the 'costs' to light merely for informational purposes.
Just my two cents.... | |
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kmhstx
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Joined: 8/23/2005
Msg: 75 | |
| non smokers
Posted: 6/22/2006 2:28:07 AM | Trouble maker....Well I don't put on 5 lbs of cancerous make up lmao...talk about over exaggerating....and if I did....It would only effect my health not yours. ANd once you weren't standing right next to me you wouldn't smell me anymore. BUt if people are smoking indoors it lingers and forms that nice little toxic haze at just above head level.
I hope to God that people will look at Joy's posts. She is the real deal.
Of course people who don't smoke get cancer.....of course....people are pointing this out. I have had patients come in that have not been sick a day in their lives, and boom they have cancer.
BUT if you knew that you were doing something that could....and most likely according to 99% of the scientific community (apparently 1% is where the OP is getting his scientific facts for this thread) is highly increasing your chances of developing a life threatening illness. AND causing tax payers MILLIONS and BILLIONs of dollars whouldn't you at least not live in denial.
(I know being over weight is just as bad....so I am loosing)
Trouble maker you continually harp on and on about CO2 and smog emmissons. Yes they most likely are carcinogens as well. BUt I bet there are studys that show people who live in areas of high pollution where people who smoke and live in smog areas have higher rates of cancer than those who just live in the smog areas and don't smoke.
JOY you go GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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