| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/7/2007 4:30:13 PM | why not give tax breaks to the people who have worked hard to earn it?
why reward laziness and short sightedness with entitlements.
why punish those who have finished college and worked long hours to become wealthy and successful by taxing them higher?
did your parents punish you when you cleaned up your room or helped around the house?
when you were bad did they reward you by taking you out for ice cream or slipping you a couple of bucks??
~~~~~~~~ NO THEY DIDN'T~~~~~~~~~ | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/7/2007 5:55:17 PM | Yeah the hard workers are those usually at the bottom- not those a the top making 400x the amount of their workers. And a progressive tax is not a leftist idea- it was held high by Adam Smith. Its not punishment, but a social responsibility. The Japanese are capatalistic, but they also ensure fair buisness practice exists. The ratios that exist in America, exist nowhere else.
Squeezing workers and the consumer for everthing they have is very unscrupulous and wreaks of extreme greed. | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/7/2007 6:32:48 PM | Nicely said, Merc. Progressive taxation is fair and reasonable. Tax breaks should go to those who most need them, not people who are rich. I agree with Merc that it is a social responsibility to have a progressive taxation system.
Let's just tune out the likes of Tomozzo's whining about taxes being "punishment". It is simply the responsibility of a citizen to pay taxes, and if someone has more money, that person has a duty to pay a higher percentage than someone who is poor, who needs that money to provide for his or her family. Tomozzo, why don't you try living on minimum wage for a while? You'll change your tune really fast! | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/7/2007 7:03:29 PM | Actually, I wouldn't complain much about taxes if the money generated was used wisely by the powers that be. But... you will absolutely never convince me that I should have to be in the highest progressive tax bracket (single man with no dependents = 42% tax here in Canada) supporting people who had children but cannot afford to support them. Sorry, but we all make our own bed... on that note, if you don't like living on minimum wage (I have), do something about it!
I think people should be taxed on how much money they spend. There should not be a penalty for being wise enough to save money. The more you spend, the more tax you pay. Simplest form of tax there is. Flat rate sales tax on everything beyond bare essentials.
Regard to the original question, the minimum wage should definitely be based on an index of the cost of living. But, it is doubtful anyone on the Senate has ever actually known a person who lived on so little.
One more thing... a barrel of oil potentially contains the same amount of work energy as 25000 man hours of manual labor (12 people working a whole year!). I can't believe people whine and cry about it costing as little as it does. It is not our god given right to be able to commute 30 miles to work, nor fly across the world for a few days of being drunk on a beach... we are squandering an incredible resource and generations down the road will no doubt remember us fondly for it. | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/7/2007 7:08:46 PM |
why not give tax breaks to the people who have worked hard to earn it?
And by doing so increase the burden on those who have less ? Just look at the USA today, where the ultra rich are getting more money back in tax refunds , than most workers MAKE - in a time of great national debt.
why reward laziness and short sightedness with entitlements.
Yeah, everyone that's working class or poor is simply lazy and stupid. I trust that, should reincarnation be a fact, you will be reborn to a crack addicted mother in Compton. I'd love to see you show us all how well you'd do then.
One of the great myths of capitalism (in it's American version) is that every single person is equal at the start of their lives.....including the ones born to wealthy well educated families, who have far more advantages in everything (including education, and better medical care). Those people typically are the first to see everyone with less money as stupid and lazy.
why punish those who have finished college and worked long hours to become wealthy and successful by taxing them higher?
Because if you don't, other people (you know, the ones with less money) that are working long hours too will be left with almost nothing for their work. | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/7/2007 7:31:13 PM | Good job MG!!!!
People who have lower incomes are not necessarily stupid or lazy. I am currently in training to improve my life so that I can have a profitable career. Sometimes it makes sense to take a little time to shift gears into a lucrative career field. Nor do all low income persons stay that way. I plan on being very succe$$ful in busine$$ when I graduate, and when I am, I am more than willing to pay my fair share of taxes. People who whine about taxes have lost their sense of duty as citizens. I could not serve in the military due to medical reasons, so being a tax payer is how I serve my country. Those who are lower income, struggling to make ends meet, or are students striving to improve their lives are the ones who need the tax breaks, not people who have lots of money. | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/7/2007 8:41:17 PM | why not let the market determine minimum wage? that makes more sense. raising minimum wage really wouldn't help much. it would only hurt small business owners.
i see everyone b1tching about wealthy CEOs but what about the guy that owns a small pizza joint, corner diner or hardware store? what happens to them? can anyone for raising minimum wage answer that?
what will happen is jobs will be lost or hours cut. | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/7/2007 9:12:55 PM | Well, first off, National Debt is a loony lefty oxymoron. America's National debt is about 10% of Canada's comparing debt to GNP. Besides, most governments pay on a 6 month time lag so obviously, the bigger the country, the bigger the debt. Simple Math.
Increasing a tax burden on poor people? They don't pay taxes. Get your story straight. How is a poor person's burden increased when they still don't pay anything? Do a little research.
Oh. College is free for poor people in America so don't even go there. PELL grants... GAT grants... there is NO reason at all for a kid to not get an education if the kid wants it.
Quit ripping America with lies partner. Get your story straight.
You want a failed economy? Look at Quebec. If it wasn't for America pumping money into Quebec there would be 50 percent unemployment. Montreal couldn't feed itself with a million acres of farm land as ummm... none in Quebec are willing to work.
So quit with the entitlement thing. If you don't like your job, find a better one.
By the way. The Senate did raise the minimum wage.
Yet another lie. You moonbats are all the same ya know. | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 6:20:06 AM | i agree that successful monied people have a social responsibility to give back... VOLUNTARILY. there are charities and foundations to give to. my favorite is the DAV, disabled american veterans.
it is wrong to tax the higher wage earner who has overcome the unfairness of life, be it a crack baby or a ghetto gangsta. you can get help. it's up to YOU to turn lemons into greenbacks.
here's a box of bandaides for you bleeding hearts. entitlements are bleeding our economy and our treasury more than any JUST war possibly could. everybody's got their hand out. | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 7:57:15 AM | | BOOO HISSSSS More useless talk that doesn't help get the job done. We DO need to raise the minimum wage and start making those who have more money pay their fair share of taxes. Quit whining tomozzo!!! You sound like this to me WWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! People like you are a cancer on our society, eating it alive to the point that people are getting screwed left and right. A Band Aid to heal you of your selfish attitude. And Longbow is another one. GAG!!! No wonder our country is hurting so much with self centered, ignorant people who only care about themselves. Conservatism is evil, selfish, dirty and rotten, and should be removed from this country like a cancer from someone's ailing body. The GOP is a cancer on our country and should be cut out like a bad tumor. | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 8:09:25 AM | i agree that successful monied people have a social responsibility to give back... VOLUNTARILY.
>>>>>>>>>>>
SURE hahaha.....
More like ...
Leave it to some lazy kid to sit by the pool paying a lower tax rate for capital income than LABOR income>
"why reward laziness and short sightedness with entitlements." tomozzo post 226
Did he earn it? | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 8:13:11 AM | I'd have to agree with Tomozzo, and calling him a cry baby because you disagree with him is hardly helping the debate.
He's got a good point- why is it required that people are forced under threat of violence to pay for the needy? Should good people be forced to close their stores because they cannot afford a higher minimum wage? And if they just ignore it, should force be applied to such people? Isn't motions like these what will destroy small businesses and empower corporations?
And, not reading 10 pages, I wonder if it's been brought up- during a economic low point in America, where bankruptcies have exploded, is it really wise to demand all companies pay their employees more(or else they will be closed down or raped by felons in prison)? Isn't this, ironically enough, not an attack on the rich as the OP claims, but a further attack on the poor? Companies that are just hanging on will close, and those who don't will be forced to raise their prices- wouldn't this mean the homeless and jobless will be far more likely to go without food and shelter, since both the price of living has gone up and they lost their jobs *because* of Government actions? | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 8:19:53 AM | i see everyone b1tching about wealthy CEOs but what about the guy that owns a small pizza joint, corner diner or hardware store? what happens to them? can anyone for raising minimum wage answer that?
Small business do not employee a lot of people so they would not be paying that many people more money. If you can not do good enough business to pay your employee better get rid of some or get out of business | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 8:21:46 AM | "it is wrong to tax the higher wage earner who has overcome the unfairness of life, be it a crack baby or a ghetto gangsta. you can get help. it's up to YOU to turn lemons into greenbacks."
Says who? Not Adam Smith- a godfather of capitialism. He in fact warns about greed, special intrests, and the need for a progressive tax. Money sitting in someones pocket hurts the economy- it needs to moving.
As for small buisiness., the progressive tax could apply as well. | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 8:36:58 AM | >>>Small business do not employee a lot of people so they would not be paying that many people more money. If you can not do good enough business to pay your employee better get rid of some or get out of business
Who are you to determine who can and cannot hold a business? Just because its a small business, it doesn't matter, eh?
How does beliefs and actions like those help society? Business's close, people have no jobs and, eventually, no homes, and food costs more because the farmer, the truckers, the grocery stores who DO pay their employees more have to get this money from someplace other than the air, and thus are forced to charge more for their products- food- and suddenly you have an increasing number of people in the country who are without food.
Is this your idea of a solution? | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 9:18:27 AM | Kudos to you designingwoman, some people's privledged upbringing makes them ignorant to the real world, and real life. Donating to a single charity tomozzo, the DAV,
(a very worthwhile organization) is just that, ONE organization!! Does that make you feel like you've "helped" by cutting a check? I believe there are many people in your area that may not be of that affiliation,but deserving all the same. Try donating some of your TIME helping others,rather than looking down on them. Go by percentages of min. wage gross to net,and then yours.(longbow) Pell,GAT, You think that pays for college?(Not all live at mommy/daddys house while we go)!! Those grants do offset some expenses,but does not make collge "free" by any means! Especially if you have a child to support!!!! | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 10:42:21 AM | Minimum wage workers are grossly overpaid for what they do. They do the jobs that even American high school kids can do without any previous experience or training. So why should they get pay increases?
The answer: labor unions use the federal minimum wage as a starting point for negotiating salaries. So the higher the minimum wage, the higher the cost of labor. Thus making American firms less competitive. | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 10:54:36 AM | Who are you to determine who can and cannot hold a business? Just because its a small business, it doesn't matter, eh?
How does beliefs and actions like those help society? Business's close, people have no jobs and, eventually, no homes, and food costs more because the farmer, the truckers, the grocery stores who DO pay their employees more have to get this money from someplace other than the air, and thus are forced to charge more for their products- food- and suddenly you have an increasing number of people in the country who are without food
Small business can make a lot of money so there is no excuse not to pay more money. Not paying your employee well is unethical. Grocery stores that pay more because they do well and can expand more locations. | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 11:25:56 AM | You're making the assumption that business's everywhere are succeeding hand over fist- and I honestly don't believe that. And the beauty of that is my assumption means that Millions of people must now prove themselves to earn more- your assumption means that many, many business's are now closed and far more people are hungry in the streets.
How the hell is that Ethical? Hell, how is taking my money by force under threat of violence ethical to begin with?
Its funny, though- you pointed out a flaw in your own logic- Grocery Stores generally pay above Minimum wage.
And Why?
Because they "do well".
By your own admission, thats why they pay their employees more than minimum wage-Companies that do well usually pay more than minimum wage to attract ambitious and trustworthy employees for the longterm. So clearly, raising minimum wage doesn't help the general population, it only harms companies that cannot afford to pay their employees well, forcing them to make cutbacks, raise prices, or go out of business(or screw over their employees more). Companies like Walmart and Exxon aren't going to be harmed much, if at all, by a change in minimum wage- its the small business, and the poor, that'll be harmed.
This isn't just a solution that you throw(other peoples) money at it and it goes away | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 1:03:41 PM | Marko, minimum wage workers are grossly UNDER paid for what they do. People like you need to live a week in the shoes of a single parent struggling to get by on minimum wage. This kind of ignorance of the plight of the working poor is a serious problem that is affecting our country.
Henry Ford was one of the best business men ever. He believed that paying his workers a good living wage enabled them to buy his product. People who are paid well are able to buy the products that businesses offer. Thus, good wages are good for bu$ine$$!!!!
Costco pays well above the minimum wage for their workers, and the company is flourishing. The stores are quite busy with many customers in them, and the company has a good reputation partly because of the high wages they pay their workers.
Keeping wages very low motivates people to stay on welfare, as well. My friend used to say that we needed three things to get people off welfare: a high minimum wage that was a living wage, universal health care and subsidized day care for those who have lower incomes. Getting people off welfare is a supposedly "conservative" goal, but it takes "liberal" actions to get that job done! | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 5:36:19 PM | i didn't think i could get a good answer on how small businesses would be able to keep the same amount of employees working the same amount of hours if the raised minimum wage considerably.
my boyfriend does own a pizza place. he's not a wealthy CEO by any stretch of the imagination. minimum wage went up seventy five cents an hour. most of his employees were hired at more than minimum wage so it wasn't a huge deal for him. however he had 2 or 3 sh1t employees making minimum wage. the increase came and they didn't deserve more money so he fired them. the cost would have been too great for him to keep them
he works more hours and does it without complaint. watching his labor costs is very important. why should he work more hours for less money? should he work for free so his employees, who don't have half the hustle he does, can make $10/hour? should he do it just for the joy of it and because the world needs pizza?
i don't think anyone understands the costs involved in running a business. i find it a little cute (and slightly scary) that people would think that because mr. happy's hardware store isn't the next home depot is because mr. happy is a poor businessman. chances are he's been in business for decades and provides jobs and taxes for his community.
does anyone realize that collectively, small businesses employ more people than large businesses do? so what happens when all these people get their hours cut or lose their jobs? how is that good for the economy? has anyone realized what the higher costs of goods and services would do to middle class people who do not get an increase in pay?
i understand feeling for people who have to work jobs at minimum wage. i more than triple missouri's minimum wage and i couldn't imagine making that much less. however, if the cost of groceries went up, gas goes up, the occassional pizza goes up, i might as well be making minimum wage.
minimum wage should go up over time, that would happen for those employees naturally.
now all that being said.................
can anyone explain what a small business owner would do if minimum wage went up to an obscene $10 an hour? | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 6:19:25 PM | well said Jiperly and Rollergrrl.
the old adage says it best.
GIVE a man a fish and he can eat for one meal.
TEACH a man to fish and he can feed himself and his family for a lifetime.
let's teach our poor (though i feel many of them would rather have a check) to get the education they need and not drop out of school. let's teach them there IS shame in having MANY out of wedlock children from different men and let's teach them that there IS opportunity in hard work and a possible bright future if they're willing to put in the sweat and effort needed.
designing woman, *there's NO CRYING in economics!!!!!* | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 6:34:09 PM | You are the one doing the crying, not me. I was just mocking how you whine about paying taxes.
I do agree that providing good job training to the poor to help them get out of poverty is a good thing. Raising the minimum wage to a living level will also give these same people the motive to work. As it stands now, the wages at the bottom are so low that it does not surprise me that these people find that being on welfare pays more than working. That is a travesty, and that's why the minimum wage must be raised, to bring dignity to people's work. | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 7:04:54 PM | designing, i think your ideas are very noble. misguided, but noble.
i'm not sure what you mean by "living level" but i'm thinking $10 plus. if i'm wrong, please correct me. raising minimum wage that much all of the sudden would be a very very bad idea, that's why it hasn't happened. i can't understand how you can't see how a small business could support that.
you say things like there will be more money to spend on the business owner's goods, fine ok, but how long will that take? how long can a business owner pay from his own pocket before he throws up his hands and closes the doors forever? one pay period? two? then where are all the people spending more? they're out of work.
forcing someone to pay me more would not bring dignity to my work. EARNING more money would.
if someone is stuck at minimum wage forever, there is something wrong with them. not the gov't or their employer | |
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| Senate refuses to raise minimum wage.
Posted: 9/8/2007 7:40:36 PM | That's right, rollergrrl!
I own a small painting business and although I pay my help roughly four times over the current minimum wage, if I were suddenly forced to pay them more it would hurt. I would have to raise my rates. With the mortgage problems going on nationwide these days, people can only pay so much to have their house painted. If they don't hire my company, I'd be forced to lay off the help.
I run my azz off for twelve hours a day and seven days a week at times. WHY, WHY, WHY, should I have to pay more in taxes than some lazy slob who sits around watching the clock!!!!
Don't like making low wages? Find a new job or start your own business! I did! | |
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