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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/17/2005 9:26:22 PM | | Well, for me, i can be around alcohol sometimes, and other times I can't be around it, if I am around people who are drinking I just miss it too much an want to drink, but other times It doesn't matter if people drink around me, it's really strange. I think it depends on who's drinkin an what the situation is. So I think it's good that she's not around it, she knows what's best for her. | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/17/2005 10:23:15 PM | Well, alcoholism is something that is easy to get back into to. She probably is trying to be dedicated to her sobriety and trying to never go back into the lifestyle she left behind 19 years ago. My father was the same way. He didn't like people to drink around him (he was 22 years sober, by the time he died).
But when you say occasionally, that's what that means. Either only on holidays, on dates, or at a party. I drink only when I get asked out or on a holiday celebration, such as New Year's. But that doesn't make me an alcoholic and your not one either. An alcoholic is more likely someone who can't go a day with an alcoholic beverage in their hand. I can go days and weeks or months, if need be, without a drink.
Leana | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/17/2005 11:53:04 PM | aargh-
though i agree that the OP could have used greater sensitivity, i tend to believe he is more confused than disrespectful.
i will give him credit for respecting the line she drew instead of arguing about it with her. even though you did not like or understand it, you respected it. very important and i think that deserves drawing attention to.
as to the WTF?:
all adults, even if they have a profile on the net, are generally presumed the freedom, indeed- the responsibility (!) of making wise choices (for them, not you) about how to allocate thier time and energy. being with people who use makes her uncomfortable. there could be any or several of a thousand reasons. many recovering people have offered possible explanations. i will add to it by introducing you to the term `trigger'.
anyone who has had a sufficiently frightening or otherwise painful experience with anything, what some consider mere `products', phrases, smells (this may be particularly relevant with drinkers and smokers) or whatever- can and often are `triggered' by this exposure. if she falls into this category in any way, she is simply taking care of her own interests first. on the other hand, she classifies all `users' as fitting some lower class or moral being, she judging you. either way, i suppose a non-user of say cigarettes or meat, also has to make this choice. many people who have given up something that others frequently consume (i fit this category btw) DO feel that partakers are `beneath them', sometimes this is a phase, sometimes not.
all you can know for sure is that it is her belief that it is not healthy for her to be hanging with you. it isn't about you most likely, but her and that is her perogative. maybe she isn't `intolerant' or triggered by being around drinkers, but the important element is that she knows her boundaries. does it confuse you when people say no to smokers? i expect there are all kinds of limits and boundaries about substances, and a zillion other things out there, but it usually isn't put so nicely and simply for you.
if it makes this make more sense- one of MY boundaries (though not as inflexible as hers) is that i use caution in the early stages of my relationships with those who are heavily involved in an AA like 12 step program.
i recognize that people in AA (and i do NOT use this synonomously for any recovery program!) are individuals and if i am otherwise sufficiently interested in someone i would get to know them as an individual before acting soley on any AA assumptions. that said, i personally have found it very uncomfortable to be around people who seem to have developed ways of interacting with others in a manner that is to me strikingly similar to some `cult' adherent behaviors.
any beliefs and behaviors are OK in my book, so long as we work out a way to keep `mine' offa you and visa versa. i have my own agenda for self improvement and do not like someone constantly bringing up the one cig i snuck out to have after several hours (i hate smoking around non-smokers even if they say they don't mind, never around a kid) and either having to start getting almost rude or enure the millionth overly assumptive lecture on the topic. again- people are individuals, it is just like with any group there will be some that preach, and AA does seem to deserve the accusation that while they are supposedly trying to `fix' black and white thinking, a good deal of the doctrine as i understand and know it is just that. lots of projection. may apply, may not.
below is a bit off topic- picking a nit about semantics, but i feel it is important, so i am saying it anyway.
though i do not believe this was anyone's specific intent, since getting onto the issue of labeling, the terms AA or (xxxx) ANON seem to be getting used in a manner that seems, to me anyway- to convey enormous authority, credibility or argumentative weight.
for those who don't know (and many of you may be in AA); while there is no disputing that AA and similar 12 step programs have helped save the lives of many people- despite what they say it is not `the only way for everyone'.
for some demographic segments of the population AA is not an appropriate or effective recovery program.
i will not get into all the reasons for this, but simply offer one example. AA is sufficiently religously biased that litigation is wending through the courts challenging the `right' of judges to order AA specificially (as opposed to another recovery support program) as part of sentencing of those with substance addictions who are convicted of crimes.
i haven't checked in on these cases recently, but i believe at least one pending case has now been resolved in favor of the plaintiff. changing the word `god' to `higher power' doesn't really fool anyone, as it turns out, even if you add `as you understand HIM' (my emphasis).
while i care not if people discuss AA's organizational positions and definitions, but seems to me that for the benefit of people who do not know a great deal about AA and other recovery options, seems like it would be easy to be mislead into equating AA's position(s) with `fact'. some of thier paradigms ARE very controversial in certain circles working with specialized populations or applied to the `wrong' people.
peace
R | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/18/2005 3:11:45 AM | For the OP:
I often wondered, I mean I knew of ex-alchololics that had no issues being around other people at drink. I guess this person can't even be at a party or social gathering, man I figured someone whod be sober for that long would be over it by now. | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/18/2005 4:15:30 AM | It is called having enough respect for herself and her condition to understand that she cannot be around the substance that she is having an issue with. It is pretty hard and judgemental of you to critizize her for that!!!. She had a problem, and she is dealing with it in a healthy way for her life.
You have no right to condemn her for not wanting to be around a person who still drinks, even if socially - that puts her in a position of being around the very substance she is not using, and puts temptation in her path. | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/24/2005 12:56:43 AM | Don't condemned her, respect her feelings. She just doesn't want to be around that kind of lifestyle. The same lifestyle she left behind, for good, 19 years ago... You have to respect that, man...
Leana | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/24/2005 6:40:45 AM | | the real point is... why would you want to be friends with an alcoholic - they never recover. its like expecting a leg to grow back - it can't happen. it's impossible. i have seen recovering alcoholics drink again after 21 years (i've heard of twenty five) and guess what? their acloholism had progressed and their relapse was worse than ever. ever seen a man crawling around in his own dirt looking for a can? alcoholics know this, they also know that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH WILLPOWER - ie that they are powerless - all credit to her, if thats what she feels she has to do - then leave her to it. lovely person though you are, you certainly don't appear to know what distinguishes alcoholics form social drinkers and i would say - that it ispotentially dangerous for an alkie to associate with soemone who can't accept the truth of their situation. its life death and sanity stuff i'm afraid - i wouldn't take the risk either - what's the point? as I said, you wouldn't wan tto be freinds with an alkie anyway, recovering or not - they're all raving mad, believe me. | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/24/2005 6:51:04 AM | | ps - AA does not say it is the only way for everyone - not remotely - what AA suggests is that it may be a way for some alcoholics of a certain type, that it has NO OPINION on outside issues and that it takes its hat off to anyone who can drink without problems. people really do just make stuff up don't they? "cult" my a***. its just and only a bunch of really sick people trying really hard and with varying degrees of success to get well. to recover from what is for them, a killer illness. is a hospital a cult meeting place then? oh yes.. it might be... what;'s the difference between god and a doctor? god doesn't think he's a doctor. what are people like!!! hmmm... there's some sick people over there trying to get well.... must be a cult... a cult!!! oh mi god!!! I'm threatened i'm threatened attack attack defend kill all cults - someone make them sick again so i know where i stand!!! stop it. for ****s sake. | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/24/2005 6:53:46 AM | Very enlightening, maartijno....I mean, I sympathize with her, yes.....
I have one for you though, it may contradict the woman in the OP's post.
I met a woman online, very sweeet woman, was getting to know her over the phone, her smile in her pictures was unbelievably pleasant. I was really getting to like her, even before I met her.
Anyhow, she said something about attending an AA BBQ, and I was like, "AA"? and she said she was a recovered alcholic.....apparently 5 years prior, she was drinking and driving with her kid in the car, she got into an accident. And the judge told her if she didn't do the AA thing, she'd basically never see her kid again. So her child was her incentive not to drink.
I basically had a problem with her "Current" attendence at an AA meeting. I was thinking, if I was dating her, if some of my friends said, "So why isn't your g/f with us today, what do I say, 'She's at an AA" meeting?
I told her, I just didn't feel right dating someone who was in AA. And she was really hurt by this. She tried to explain that she will never do it again, becuase of loosing her child to the State. However much it pained me, I just had to call it off, and I imagine it was painful for her, to get rejected by someone because she's currently attending AA
I thought you attended AA meetings, recovered, and then never went back...apparently not. | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/24/2005 6:56:18 AM | Ditto here. I would never get involved with a recovering alcoholic. My maternal grandfather was one, my paternal uncle used to call us up out of the blue drunk wanting to tell us how much he loved us, and I found myself years ago, almost willing to go that route, but quite using any just in time. I have chosen NOT to drink because I feel better physically. I understand her need to stay away from temptation. Who would want to be constantly reminded of what they can't have? New life, new friends. | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/24/2005 7:00:44 AM | | some people might. then they become dry drunks and smolder with rage and self loathing and go stark staring ,mad. one friend of mine attended enough meetings to discover that he wasn't an alcoholic after all. good for him. basically - if one wants to stay drunk - one has to go somewhere to accomplish the act of inebriation i.e. a pub. and for some people - attendance at meetings is the antithesis of active drinking - so if you want to STAY sober you have to keep goign to meetings - like if you want to STAY drunk you have to carry on drinking. you might have saved this womans life by being honest with her - she wouldn't have been being honest with you if she was willing to put her life in jeopardy just to gain your approval. AA is about self acceptance - not self improvement. it has zilch to do with self improvement. but you must know that alkies are nuts. don't bother to try and understand them, you'll fail. like oliver sachs did. | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/24/2005 7:17:21 AM | | Well, although I believe in moderation in all things and that includes your views on just about anything, it is still her life and if she feels that your drinking is a problem for her, who is anybody to argue ? After all, she's the only person in her head and nobody else can tell her how she feels about something or the reason she might feel that way. I don't know that you're being insensitive to a major degree but you should bear in mind that it really isn't your choice to make anyway. It's her life my friend and that's really all there is to it. | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/24/2005 7:57:49 AM | | OKAY....NOT DATING SOMEONE BECAUSE YOU DON'T HIT IT OFF IS ONE THING......NOT DATING HER B/C OMG WHAT WOULD MY FRIENDS SAY IS ABOUT THE MOST IGNORANT THING I HAVE EVER HEARD! GROW UP! AND AS A NURSE, LEARN ABOUT THE DISEASE.....WHICH YES IN THE MEDICAL DICTIONARY IS A DISEASE! IT LASTS THE REST OF YOUR LIFE AND IT IS AWESOME WHEN SOMEONE REALIZES THEY HAVE THAT ADDICTION AND SEEKS HELP AND A SUPPORTIVE ENVIRONMENT TO REMAIN SOBER! | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/24/2005 9:40:05 AM | | hey gotapulse, yelling?? sorry not meanin to come across that way....readin hambones post about not goin out with someone b/c of what his friends think...well, irritated a lil bit. that is about the most high school thing i have read on here. lol.....n education or experience is best before someone makin comments about what they "think" recovery should be. peace out lol | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/24/2005 10:11:30 AM | Well, not really. Alcoholism is a serious disease and it never goes away. You're never recovered, you just arrest it for good...A lot of people need AA like they need to breath, sometimes... Some people can't live without AA in their lives. People in AA are pretty awesome people, that was bad on your part to not date her, because she goes to AA... Hambone352, you need to not be so close minded about people who are in AA. My father was in AA for 2 years and he was a changed man and a better father to me and a better husband to my mother. They are great people, when they're not drinking... Go to one and just sit in there and you'll see...
Leana | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/24/2005 10:48:39 AM | | Well, what I think is important more so than what my family thinks, not my friends.....actually, but its more so what I think, and I think its important for me not to get involved with someoen with Alcholol issues.....sorry I made this post, but dont jump on me, I'm just trying to learn something here. | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/28/2005 5:00:46 PM | Hambone said "I thought you attended AA meetings, recovered, and then never went back...apparently not. "
That has been my understanding - once an alcoholic, always an alcholic, alcholism is never cured and alcoholics are constantly in recovery.
My hats off to those who know their limitations and build a support group and a support network around themselves so that they can continue to win against the alcohol. I think everyone who continues to go to AA meetings and continues to strive against the hold that alcohol has on them deserves our praise and admiration.
It is so easy to fall prey to the desire to fit in and to pretend one does not have a problem with alcohol. It takes courage to admit the truth and go against peer pressure to drink or attend drinking events. | |
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jardin
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Joined: 7/27/2005
Msg: 72 | |
| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/28/2005 9:03:15 PM | | Did the woman in question actually say she wouldn't associate with anyone who drinks or she wouldn't DATE anyone who drinks? Major difference! As a recovering alcoholic 2 or 3 times now,(10 yrs sober the first time, 8 months the second) I have finally come to the conclusion that in my life I can not date anyone who drinks.Being around others who are drinking doesn't bother me. It was tasting the alcohol on my lovers lips that reminded me of what I was missing. I then proceeded to fool myself that I could drink 'normally' too. Lord, help me I think I finally got it figured out! Going on three years sober come September. Maybe this woman learned the same way I did or maybe she's just smarter. Either way, more power to her! | |
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| Recovering alcholic won't associate with people who drink
Posted: 7/28/2005 9:41:37 PM | | Vandelai, let's consider this scenario. You and this woman decide to start seeing each other, even though it's against her better judgement. You reassure her that you are not a big partier and you will only keep to your occasional beer. Ok, everything is fine and dandy, don't you just love Love? Then one day you have to leave town for a weekend. You leave your beer in the fridge, cause there is only 2 left out of the six-pack you bought a month ago, what harm can 2 beers do? So you go your way, take your trip. She is at home all weekend, nothing to do, bored, a little hungry. She goes to the fridge and sees your innocent beer. Hey, I've been sober for 19 years, she thinks, maybe a beer with my chips and salsa would taste pretty good. So she has one. That tasted pretty good, so she has the other one. Then she decides she might just get a good buzz on for old times sake, she can handle it now, it's been 19 years right? So she takes your debit card and goes to the liquor store, maybe buys a bottle of vodka (so you don't smell it, and it's easy to hide in other containers). You come home, found out she got lambasted, have a disscussion about it and all is well. She's going to stop again. The next time you go to use the mouthwash, it's gone. Gee, where do you think that could have gone? A couple of weeks go by, and the rubbing alcohol is gone too! And then later,the savings too!!! I think you see where I'm going with this. It's her choice, it's her problem, it's her life. It's not you. | |
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now now Beachboy no need for slappin anyone around, well unless of course it's in a good way hehe...but that's another topic. Good on you for your efforts to stay clean. Keep it up. 
