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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/23/2006 9:24:45 AM | | Im sorry to hear about your daughters attack. I own a staffordshire bull terrior which is classified as a bully breed pitbull type. He is 4 years old, gentle, passive, playful and diciplined. I also have a cat that he plays with and sometimes the cat will put him in his place and he walks away with his tail between his legs. I truly believe if owners train their dogs just like children to behave in social environments there would less of this type of story. I personally would have kenneled my dog and not just leave him alone to roamin the open when company is over or simply supervise your dog and child together. I dont agree bully breeds should be banned - but I do agree the owner should pay the price completely. Maybe have it be manditory to enroll your bully breed into a class where he is fully trained to behave (dog school)...Last year my child was playing outside in our back yard with her friend and our dog barked an unusual bark. They came inside saying that our dog was barking at a man who was looking inside the yard and watching them and took off after seeing him. Sounds innocent or maybe not. To me he was protecting...now who knows what would have happened if this man stepped into our yard...what do you think? If this man did and I didnt have our dog what would have happened to the kids? Again supervision with animals and kids can prevent a "you never know". That day my ex was left in charge while I was at work so you can imagine my fury as to why he wasnt around to watch but at least my dog was... | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/23/2006 9:31:50 AM | i myself have a full blood pittbull pup, he is 6 months old. i also have two small children. i feel that that breed of dog could be dangerous if trained that way. my dog is on a chain. Any type of dog could be a dangerous breed. it is all in the way you train a dog, or how the dog is treated. If the dog is abused by a child then the dog is more likely to attack a child, same as an adult. I am sorry what happenend to your child. I am not say that your child abused the dog but more then like someone did. I have been around many pitbulls, not all of them are dangerous. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/23/2006 10:04:25 AM |
no such thing as a dangerous breeed...just dumb owners
I will agree with this, to a point. There are some dogs that are known to be dangerous, Pitts, Rotts, etc. BUT... 99.9999% of them can and will make wonderful, loving, family dogs. Certain breeds require different training than you would give to a poodle, a lab, a more accepted breed. I was raised with Rotts. I love them. I was never once bit, attacked, or hurt by any of them (other than being knocked over from them being over excited lol). I had two Rotts for the past 14 years. Unfortunatly, both have since passed. My son was raised with them, and they both seemed to see my son as their pup lol The reason why they were such fantastic dogs? Training training training. The reason there is such a huge problem with some of the larger breeds is because of uninformed and ignorant owners. My neighbor has a beautiful Pitt who I swear feels he is still a puppy lol
Going off of the flip side here, my cousin was attacked by two Pit Bulls about 5 or 6 years ago. He had to undergo massive reconstructive surgery, and will carry and huge scar on his face for the rest of his life. Even with that, I don't feel that they should be banned. Maybe in order to own one it should be required that the dogs have heavy training, along with training for the owners as to what kind of handleing the dogs require.
Just my 2ยข | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/23/2006 5:32:21 PM | Statistically German Shepherds are the most likely to attack people. Yet, the dogs most likely to actually seriously injure people in attacks are Pit-bulls and Rottweilers. Rotties have an especially bad track record with children. Chows are also bad news.
You should NEVER have small children around these breeds, especially if they are strangers to the dog. The owners of the Pit-bull in the OP's story were extremely irresponsible people. What they did by having strange children around the dog was extremely dangerous and they caused your child's injury, not the dog. It was THEIR fault. The dog was a stupid animal in its own territory and saw other animals invading its territory and attacked. It attacked the smaller child to establish dominance.
The owners were smart enough to change their story so that it would be difficult to prosecute them so they were obviously smart enough to have avoided the whole incident to begin with. Just don't have the dog in the room with strange children. Period.
I would have sued them. That is why they are afraid to talk to you or check on your kid, they are afraid of a law suit. They don't care about your kid and considering it was their actions that led to the animal's destruction, they didn't particularly care about it either. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/23/2006 7:49:21 PM | | I am sorry for what happened to your little one. A small child should never be on the floor or lower than the animal if there is ANY stranger dog in the room. It is a dog's natural instinct to establish dominance when exposed to new animals. And yes, your daughter was a "new animal" to this dog. There is no such thing as a dangerous breed. Only dangerous owners due to lack of knowledge and skills. If you are an owner of ANY breed of dog, you should take the time to have the dog properly trained as well as yourself. I have a boxer. Very protective and very agile. They are also very intelligent and stubborn. She is only just 2 but she will need constant reinforcement for the duration of her life. Why? Because it is in her best interest as well as my own. She is a show dog as well as the family pet. I have never been attached by a dog but I have been bitten by scared and nervous dogs. I have had family members attached by dogs. The worst by far was from a JRT. They may not seem like much but combine their speed with exceptionally sharp teeth and you have a tragic combination. He went through many surgeries and will never be the same and yet, he still has JRT pups. It's his way of dealing with and getting over the trauma. The one that attached him belonged to his best friend. They were 10 at the time. He is now 46. Every breed has the potential to turn. Every breed will have flaws. Responsible owners take the time to learn about their animals and work with them to manage them. I do like your idea about insurance though. We already do have pet insurance in AB, but that usually only covers health, dental and accidental injury to the dog. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/23/2006 9:03:38 PM | Op--- It would seem to me you should choose better friends. If you are interested in the current events section of the forum this has been argued out quite extensively. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/24/2006 3:16:53 AM | | well to be really frank with you it is not the dog but the owners who are dangerous as they teach the dog or not teach them as is, I have been the owner and breeder of German shepherds for over 20 years and other dogs as well and never had an incident with them neither have the people to whom I have sold the dogs, always bred dog by examining their character and inteligence but people normally breed for cash which is different, my friend has a pitbul and that little dog seems to be of a different breed as it is the most softy dog in the neigbourhood, like I said it is not the dog but the person behind the dog for that animal not being a good dog. James Alman, Gibraltar. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/24/2006 3:43:10 AM | | well said james its not the dog but the owners . i had shepards rotties dobermans and pits .and not one that i could not trust . also i should say i had them from pups and trained them myself . | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/24/2006 5:59:27 AM | its like everyone else has said its the owners.. i have a pitty/wolf that i heard ripped the head off a pomorian and bit this guys kid she came to us cuz this man was going to shoot her and she is a sweetie now she has never as much as growled at my daughter maybe cuz she knows thats a death wish..but we also control the baby around her as well we dont have problem and we never leave the two of them alone not even for a second... before my pit i had a police trained king Sheppard. he was a great dog bit my ex once but my ex hit me, in front of him and he didnt like people yelling or men hitting women or children.. had no problems other then that with him either and he didnt draw blood on my ex just enough to put him in his place.. but all the kids in the neighbor hood loved him
its when people get dogs they cant control and cant handle that its a problem some dogs are naturally leaders of the pack and u need to let them no they r not. hell my dog listens to my 2 yr old lmfao my kid says sit that dog is down.. pits get a bad name because a wack of stupid owners who dont socialize their dogs and cant control them own them.. a big dog like that is not the best choice for a first time dog owner | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/24/2006 7:15:49 AM | | y? No such thing as a dagerous breed? You have got to be kidding. It is logic like this that is getting people and animals hurt and killed. You were once attacked by a****r spaniel as a little boy? How badly were you hurt? Now imagine if it was a Pit Bull that attacked you. I imagine the damage would have been a lot more severe or maybe you would be dead. Think about that. I will agree that there are a lot of really stupid dog owners who only have aggressive dogs to make up for their own shortcomings. But if we have to eliminate species to protect kids and other animals then I am all for it. Why take a chance with the safety of others just to have a big dog? Even the most docile and gentle dogs and turn with no rhyme or reason. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/24/2006 7:27:34 AM | | Actually, I find that people buy dogs and puppies based on looks alone. I know of a few people who have a Pit Bull because of what they look like as a puppy (which is pretty darn cute). Not all people who have Pit Bulls have them because of some sort of "macho" thing, its because they truley love the breed. Has anyone out there ever seen a Put Bull puppy? Again, I dont particularly care for the breed myself, but I'm such a softie for a cute face lol. | |
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Okito
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Joined: 2/9/2006
Msg: 38 | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/24/2006 9:59:50 AM | There is an element to owner responsibility in dog attacks. But there are dog breeds that have tendancies to attack or dominate. Some breeds are much more social. For me I like social dogs that have tendancies not to attack or dominate. Try out the Chesapeak Bay Retriever, or a Newfoundlander ... Beautiful breeds. My daughter got out too far when she was swimming and my dog beat me to her and pulled her into shore. I did some reading and discovered that is a well documented trait of that breed. Today he won't let her go out past her waist ... she gets pretty upset when he's corralling her back in.
The point is I didn't teach my dog to watch swimmers for trouble. He has that in him, its part of his breed. Aggressive dogs have their place but its not in peoples homes, its not as pets. Yes they may look cute and a good owner can curb natural tendancies but why should a society have to rely on the owner to curb natural tendancies. Why not just take a common sense point of view and ban aggressive breeds as pets. They've done it here in Ontario and I totally agree with it.
I also agree with banning people from owning any dog if they have any history of violence or abuse. Even the most gentle breed can be beaten into an attack dog. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/24/2006 7:23:00 PM | | I grew up on the farm and have worked with exotic animals for many years. If we are to eliminate all potentially dangerous creatures we must start with humans as they are far more dangerous and do far more harm than any other species. Talking dangerous animals I have been attacked by hundreds of animals over the years everything from mice to lions and bears and I don't hold it against any of them. As far as pit bulls and other large breed dogs go I have bred, rescued and trained hundreds of dogs in my lifetime most of them large breeds. Yes, I have been bitten by several dogs and never by a pit or rot which are two the breeds I dealt with often in rescues and breeding programs. I will not breed either of these two wonderful breeds not because the dogs are bad but because they were to popular with undesirable people that I did not want to get my puppies. Yes, the large breeds have more potential to harm humans just as the big kid on the play ground has more potetial to harm. I was that big kid and my parents taught me if I harm others they would harm my backside and I did not harm anyone. It's called training and just as there are bad parents there are bad dog owners as well so should we ban large children because some parents don't take the initiative to train their children. Then why ban large breed dogs. I don't know why the mentality of so many is to attempt to ban everything but it really does not solve the problems. It just punishes the good responsible people and creates more work enforcing or all to often attempting to enforce unsuccessfully all of the endless sea of laws we have. The media plays up attacks of certain breeds and does not mention other breeds. Two weeks ago my neice was pulled off her bicycle to the ground and bitten quite bad in her leg by a golden retreiver.(currently #1 dog in US and Canada for dog bites). This was not even news in the local paper but had it been a "pitbull type" dog it would be national news. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/24/2006 8:24:54 PM | y? No such thing as a dangerous breed? You have got to be kidding. It is logic like this that is getting people and animals hurt and killed. This is true. Some breeds are more dangerous because physically they are more powerful. You cannot train instinct out of a dog completely. It is ALWAYS a bad idea to have a large, powerful, aggressive dog around strange children. ALWAYS. It doesn't matter how well you "think" you have trained the animal.
The mistake of the owners in this situation was not their lack of training the animal, but the fact that they endangered the child's life by having the dog around children that it did not know. People who professionally train large, aggressive dog breeds know that having such an animal around small unfamiliar children is asking for a tragedy. Its stupid and irresponsible. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/25/2006 11:10:49 AM | | Very true that the media will play up the more "aggressive" pit bull type dogs, but golden retrievers, labrador retrievers and german shepherds are all police dogs AND seeing-eye dogs. There's a reason for that, they are all very gentle in general. They were bred to be gentle, and trainable. here's a site that may let you all know about the different dog breeds. www.ckc.ca it is the Canadian Kennel Club website, it has information about all known purebred dogs that the CKC recognises. Also, smaller dogs are more aggressive than larger dogs. I have a pomeranian and a shih tzu AND a lab.. the pomeranian is the one that people fear the most, then its the lab (but not because he barks and such, its because he's so big) the shih tzu people dont pay attention to because she looks like a walking toupee, and because she's too busy with her pups. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/25/2006 11:23:39 AM | There are more attacks on human by collies and other small dogs than pits and other large dogs, the smaller dogs just do less damage. AND it is really not in an "agressive" dogs nature to attack a human unless it feels threatened or it feels it's "pack" (owner) is threatened. If you read anything about "bully breeds" you'll know that it has been bred OUT OF THEM to not attack people. Only those who knew not to attack their owner survived, thus had offspring, etc. While I'm sorry that your daughter (OP) was bit by a pit, it is not in their nature to do so. Something happened, and it happens.
I have an American Bulldog. Essentially she's a giant pit. She's the best. I had her fixed about a year ago because she was starting to get aggresive with my boston terrier mix (who I had to get rid of for trying to bite the mail lady), she weighs more than me, but I never have any problems with her. Whenever anyone asks if she bites I tell them "She has teeth doesn't she?" That meaning that you never know what a dog is going to do. You just have to be prepared to do the unthinkable should anything happen.
Also, your friends lied to protect themselves against the legal ramifications of their dog's behaviour. Apparently they weren't such good friends after all and I'm sorry for that. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/25/2006 7:40:14 PM | | well i have been waiting to express my opinion on this..i used to work for animal rescue and rehab fought and abused dogs.....especially pits american bulls pinchers and rotties....i love them and in all actuality they can be the best family animals ever..but the bloodline makes a difference...how they are treated makes a difference. if the dog has ever been fought or his or her parents ever been fought i would not attempt it...although if the dog comes from a background of love and attention..which is what these dogs need alot of...then they can be and will be good pets if you have the time to devote to them...these types of dogs actually do better the more attention they get....my dog diesel went to tend bar with me in florida...he also saved my life twice...he is not with me now i gave him to a family with two little boys...every time i call them ...they tell me that i raised the best dog ever ..he keeps the children in the yard..he plays dressup...and he is a horse for the younger one....i smile everytime i think of him...i am proud of him knowing that he will never turn on that family....bb ps...there is a difference between american bull and pit bull....i think american bulls are the better breed for kids by far....and i blame the owners if the dog is agressive and mean in any breed. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/25/2006 7:50:14 PM | american bulls are the better breed for kids by far....and i blame the owners if the dog is agressive and mean in any breed. You are missing the point. It doesn't matter how well the owners trained the dog. It is a BAD idea to have a big, aggressive breed of dog around strange children, especially little ones. Ask a K-9 trainer at the police department. Go ahead now, pic up the phone and call the police and ask when you can talk to one. Guarantee they will confirm this. And anyone who argues against Pits, Rotties, and Doberman's having an aggressive predisposition is not even worth responding to; the position is that silly. They are great dogs and excellent in many roles. But you have to use COMMON SENSE.
The dogs themselves aren't dangerous. What is dangerous is the misconception people have that you can train the aggressive element out of such dogs and thus predict their behavior at all times. Thus producing the scenerio of the family with an 80 pound attack dog around strange children who are teasing the dog with a submarine sandwich and "suddenly" a child is mauled. Nature Vs Man: Nature always wins.
As far as tiny dogs being more aggressive... what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? They can't hurt you. If there has been one pomeranian or chihuahua attack that resulted in a fatality that didn't involve someone dying of laughter or a heart attack or tripping and falling down a flight of stairs, I have yet to hear of it. No adult is truly afraid of a little dog, they just don't want to get little dog bites. I'd be afraid if a little dog bit me I might smash it as a reflex. That's what I would be afraid of. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/26/2006 8:07:02 AM | From reading through this thread, what I mostly found was a lot of people who should never own any dog of any kind. IF you blame conduct on the dog, no matter what size, breed, sex etc, obviously you have no clue how to properly train one. There are living examples to refute every negative comment on here, but those will never be accepted by those brain washed by the media. When I was a kid I was bitten by a little tiny lap dog, so I suppose those should be banned as well.
It should also be noted that most dogs seem to have the ability to smell fear and ignorance. Those with these qualities should avoid them especially. By not doing so YOU are putting yourself in harms way. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/26/2006 12:09:06 PM | As a long-time dog breeder, I might have a few insights for you. First, dogs are territorial. All of them, even chihuahuas and other little ankle-biters. It's in their genetic makeup, and cannot be trained out of them. When you go to visit friends, you are in the dog's territory. He lives there, you are a tolerated, and no more than tolerated from the dog's point of view, guest. For a dog, strangers, adult or child, are a potential threat. If the dog feels threatened, he will deal with that threat in whatever manner seems most appropriate to him.
Second, and I know this is no help with what has already happened, but it might prevent a re-occurrence, small children are actually more likely to be bitten than adults. This is not because of a dog's prey drive, not because the dog is a child-eating monster, but because small children are more likely to be at the dog's eye level. For a dog, staring directly at it makes him think you want to fight. For a dog, a direct stare is a challenge, and again, he will respond in teh manner that seems the most appropriate to him.
Here's what goes through a dog's mind: The adult was friendly, petted me, which is OK. The bigger child was friendly, petted me, also OK. The little one wants to have it out. OK, I don't get it, the others were friendly, but I can deal with that too.
Third, most people, and almost no children, know how to approach a dog. If he's not your dog, LET HIM COME TO YOU. Don't walk up to someone else's dog, he may not have decided yet if you're friendly or want to hurt him. Maybe he doesn't like kids. Some older dogs don't, because kids move too fast. Don't assume he knows what you're thinking, dogs can't ask you wnat your intentions are, and they interpret body language differently than people do. For instance, to a person, a smile says I'm friendly, or at least civil. To a dog, they see bared teeth, which to them means "Let's go, ***hole!"
Fourth. Your friends lied for a good reason. With all the hysteria surrounding pitbulls, and all the politically driven bullshit, they lied for their own protection. Two reasons they no longer talk to you: 1. They're probably afraid of being sued. Too many people view an unfortunate incident as akin to winning the lottery. Hire a lawyer, and presto! never have to work again. This also speaks to the idea of carrying large insurance policies. What is that, but a desire to have a free ride?
2. Your child was bitten, which is admittedly never a good thing, but their dog, which to a dog owner is every bit as much a family member as a child, is dead. That particular friendship is over. Get used to it. That incident will never be forgotten, or forgiven, by either side, and both parties know it.
That being said, the animal control officer acted inappropriately. She should have been more sympathetic, and a lot more professional. Pitbulls originally WERE bred to fight, but to fight other dogs. When sanctioned dog fighting was legal, there were very specific rules, just as with boxing. One of the rules stated that before the fight, each dog was to be bathed by it's opponent's owner. This was to ensure that nothing was applied to the dog's fur that would be harmful to it's opponent. What this rule meant was that the dogs had to be handled by strangers, without biting. Any dog who bit was immediately disqualified, as would be a boxer who struck a referee. Repeated violations could permanently disqualify a dogman from entering his dogs, as he obviously could not control them. Because of this, human-aggressive dogs, those who were inclined to bite people, were weeded out of the bloodline, until recently, when some people decided owning a pitbull was some kind of status symbol, or some way to prove their manhood. The result of this is unnaturally large, stupid, cross-bred dogs, not properly trained or socialized, who ARE human-aggressive.
Any animal control officer should know this. Sled-dogs, by the way, never have short hair. Sled dogs are used in the arctic, where climatic and ground conditions make the use of horses impossible. They need long hair to keep them warm. Pitbulls don't have long hair.
Fifth. Breed specific legislation, banning certain breeds, is nothing but a wate of time and resources. These kinds of laws will not make pitbulls or any other breed disappear, are at best difficult to enforce, and generate huge amounts of legislation.
The only way to preventing bites is proper training and socialization for the dogs, care and dilligence from their owners, and a bit of knowlege from the public. Do not approach someone else's dog, let it come to you. A direct stare is seen by a dog as a challenge. Keep a close eye on children, little ones dont' understand animals, and often forget. I hope your child recovers quickly. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 6/26/2006 12:27:55 PM | Just a suggestion for you. When a puppy is teething, they will bite or chew on anything, it feels good on the gums. Try this: take an old towel, one you don't particularly want anymore, or can do without. Wet it, freeze it, then give it to the puppy. You may have to put it in his mouth so he gets the idea. I promise, he will really like this, and will chew on that for preference. Once the teething stage is over, 5-6 months of age, every time he goes for a shoe or something else he's not supposed to have, take it away, tell him "NO" in a firm voice so he understands, and substitute a pig ear rawhide, or a chew toy. JRTs are smart, he'll get the idea.
They can be serious biters too, in spite of their size. they move fast, and have teeth like a cat. | |
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