| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/3/2006 2:32:02 PM | If the owners had only had the dog six weeks, no one, not even the owners, could have predicted how that dog would behave in any given situation. The dog should have been put outside, for his own safety, as much as anyone elses. After only 6 weeks, you don't know the dog well enough to be able to say what he will or won't do.
He may very well have been overwhelmed. A recent move, different surroundings, different owners, and a crowd of people the dog barely knew. Animals get stressed out too, and very few of them react well to it. As an example, anyone who knows about them can tell you that stress is a major killer of horses.
One of my own dogs, 4 yrs old, never in his whole life even tried to bite anyone, bit ME in the middle of moving to where we now live. It CAN happen.
To be outraged because the owners got two more pits after theirs was killed is absolutely no different than saying "I hired a __(insert minority of choice here)__ and he stole from me. I'll never hire another one, and tell all my friends and associates that if they have a ____ working for them, they should fire him immediately, because he'll be a thief too."
The lapse in judgement is this: A parent's first and foremost duty is to keep their children safe. A dog can bite with little or no warning, for a reason that may seem perfectly good to the dog, but incomprehensible or invisible to humans. The incident with the older child should have taught you this. Lady, you blew it. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/3/2006 2:58:37 PM | I have a pit bull and she is great with my 13 month old daughter. I'm obviously 100% against banning pit bulls. That story is strange that the dog was nice to you, yr oldest daughter, and than out of the blue struck yr youngest daughter. I've learned from Cesar Millan to not pet dogs right away, especially if you do not know them. Ignore them and keep a calm, assertive state. They need to know that you are dominant. My dog has never been aggressive until after my daughter was born and she is only aggressive to one group of people and that is the ladies that come and clean my parents house. I'm not very happy about this, but something happened between them and my dog that I don't know about that made her dislike them. She never had a problem with them in the past. I've been working with her and she is getting alot better. The thing is she has to learn that she is not dominant. I'm kind of for putting a dog down after they have bit someone and against it. Though I'm sure if my dog or any dog bit my daughter I would beat it senseless and have it put down. I wouldn't punish the whole breed for one dog. That's like this "baseline rapist" in Arizona he's gone on a spree raping, assaulting, and murdering women. Should we kill ever black person because this guy is being violent? At one point in time it was doberman pinschers people wanted banned, german shepards, rottweilers. Now its pit bulls, pit bulls are the ones getting the bad rap now. If you are going to own a powerful breed you need to know how to control them.
I don't understand why the dog had to be put down because it needed to be tested for rabies that makes no sense. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/3/2006 3:23:26 PM |
I don't understand why the dog had to be put down because it needed to be tested for rabies that makes no sense. It would be difficult for the victim's family to press for an obscenely lucrative lawsuit if the dog was put to sleep immediately after the incident and the neighbor's story was that it was not even their dog but that it had wondered into the yard and they simply locked it up until animal control could come. In which case the animal control would euthanize the dog and test if for rabies. This is because no one claimed ownership and its history was unknown as a result. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/3/2006 3:33:52 PM | This would also prevent the owners of the dog from catching a high misdemeanor or possibly even felony charges for their criminal negligance that resulted in the dog's assault on the child.
The OP mentioned she took her child to the hospital and then stated that the police went to the neighbor's to file a report. As a minor I once went to the hospital for a dog bite and the police were not involved. It would seem that someone called the police and possibly attempted to press charges. Whether that was the OP or a concerned third party was not disclosed.
I'm guessing that if they had admitted to the police that it was their animal there would have been criminal charges. Criminal charges would provide a basis for a lawsuit. Evidence of wrong doing.
I'm not suggesting that it was the OP's intention to sue the people or press criminal charges. I'm merely pointing out that the neighbors seemed to think that was likely based on their actions.*****
What does seem strange to me is this statement:
I am thankful that she survived this attack but sometimes when I look at her it all comes back to me and I get angry (not at her) and scared (that this could happen again). How could it happen again if she learned not to have her children around strange dogs and taught them to stay the hell away from strange dogs? This seems odd to me.
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/3/2006 3:53:13 PM | This was not the first incident of a dog bite in the family, apparently.
Owners: Control your dogs.
Parents: Control your children.
Some people are incapable of learning. | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 106 | |
| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/3/2006 4:30:56 PM | Knowing that this dog was only with them 6 weeks...oh yes that was a poor judgement I am sorry to say. I do not remember readign anything like that before. But what you are missing, but eluded to in one post is that maybe the dog could not handle it? That is somewhat I think all of us is trying to get to.
Im guessing noone should go visit anyone if there is any kind of dog in the home then so they dont get blamed for having a lapse in judgement and being blamed for their kid getting attacked,
If there are dogs and it were my children I would ask that the dogs be put in there kennels/crates/our outside or in another room or my child would not be left unattended as you did yours. I am sorry if you are so insulted by this, we are not trying to be insulting or condescending. We are offering insight and advice as DOG OWNERS of pitt, mastiff, rotts, dobes, etc, I.E. BIG DOG breeds, that have aggressive tendencies unless they are trained properly. So the next time you are in this situation maybe you can be more prepared so there is not an incident as this. Friend or not, if there is a dog, you should be dog smart. I would hope if anything you could learn from all of this. This horrible thing, happened make your daughters scars and horrible pain not in vain. And make that poor dogs death not in vain, it was an innocent victim too. Learn from it. | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 107 | |
| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/3/2006 4:40:41 PM |
but I also dont think that I showed a lapse in judgement in taking my daughter over there when there had been no problems before
OP...then keep looking forward to your children to being bitten by dogs if you have this attitude and do not ever get a dog. I beg of you for that dogs sake, and your childs. And don't pick friends that have dogs....would be the smart thing to do as there dogs will never be safe with you as a friend...am sorry if this is cruel...but you are not someone that would be welcome around my dogs if you could not watch your kids around my dogs.
Goodluck. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/4/2006 12:14:04 PM | Hey why dont bulldog and all hook-up? You two seem to think you know everything and believe the same things. I WAS THERE TWO FEET AWAY FROM MY DAUGHTER AND SHE WAS ONLY SITTING ON THE FLOOR AND WAS GOING TO PET THE DOG WHEN IT CAME UP TO HER SHE WAS NOT RUNNING AROUND UNATTENDED OR HARRASSING THE DOG AND WE HAD BEEN AROUND THE DOG SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE WITH NO PROBLEMS BUT I GUESS YOU TWO CANT UNDERSTAND THAT MUCH CAN YOU? AND SORRY BULLDOG BUT I DIDNT BLOW ANYTHING AND ALSO I NEVER PLANNED ON SUING THEM FOR ANYTHING AND AS FAR AS THE POLICE SHOWING UP THERE FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND THE OWNERS CALLED ANIMAL CONTROL AND WANTED THE DOG REMOVED AND TOLD THEM IT HAD BIT A CHILD AND ANIMAL CONTROL CALLED THE POLICE BECAUSE IT IS REQUIRED WHENEVER AN ANIMAL BITES ANYONE. AND I AM GLAD I WOULD NEVER BE INVITED TO YOUR HOUSE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE JUDGEMENTAL HYPOCRITES ANYWAYS AND I DO CONTROL MY CHILDREN BUT I GUESS YOU SEEM TO THINK YOU KNOW ME. IF YOU DONT LIKE THIS THREAD THEN STAY OFF OF IT,GO FIND ANOTHER PERSON TO JUDGE!!!!!! | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 109 | |
| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/4/2006 3:28:54 PM | Well OP atleast if we did I know my child and dogs would be safe...so if that post makes you feel better and in your mind I suppose that works.
We are, again I will state for you; the OWNERS and TRAINERS of BIG DOG breeds so what the hell would we know? Obviously more then you if our dogs have never bitten anybody and we ourselves have never had this happen before (I can't speak for the other poster, bigdogg, bulldog? but as for mine...never bitten anybody)...WHY? Because we go by what we have stated, not as you have done.
WAS ONLY SITTING ON THE FLOOR
Well you throw the time limit of how long the owners had the dog...the fact she was on the floor, shoud not have been, as previous posters have reitterated to you. So...take what us DOG OWNERS of Pitt Breeds and other BIG BREEDS that have aggressive tendencies unless trained properly as nothing...but ya know what lady? In my home, my dogs would NOT be loose with a lot of people there! WHY? Because I am a responsible dog owner! Even as well trained as Heidi is....a lot of people all at once........not a chance. She goes to her crate or my room to play with a toy or she is camped at my leg the whole time looking at me with those eyes that say "Momma what do I do?" "Tell me what to do" | |
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ann31
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Joined: 7/2/2006
Msg: 110 | |
| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/4/2006 5:05:55 PM | | My daughter was also attacked by a "friends" pitbull and I agree 150% they should be banned. My daughter is eight but was 6 when it happened and the dog went right for her neck. It bit her ear lobe and punctured her neck in two spot and she also had a nasty gash on her belly from it's claw. Like you the very thought of it makes me extemely angry. thats fine for that person to say they weren't originally bred for fighting but they sure as hell are now. All Pitbulls have the same mentality. Just talking about them is getting me worked up. I hate them. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/4/2006 7:18:21 PM | Am I the only one who's noticed how the story keeps changing? Anything to avoid responsibility, I guess. It's probably for the best that people whose lives are totally ruled by emotion, with no apparent room for logic, reason or knowlege all seem to hate and fear dogs.
With a bit of luck, they'll all stay away.
That's the best I have...If you don't know about animals, and don't want to learn, stay away from them.
Look again at the subject line. People shouldn't ask for opinions if they don't want to find that not everyone agrees with them.
OP, I promise, I won't be back. What started out as an interesting discussion has turned into a waste of time.
I hope your child is OK. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/5/2006 12:14:04 AM | I have been bit by a dog. This dog has NEVER previously shown any probability of biting. But she did get worked up if people rough-housed. The home was always packed with over rowdy teens, the dog was never trained, socialized, or excersized. I was the one who excersized her. She loved me dearly. And after the attack, we had no problems. She is a rotty. I met her dam(mother) afterwards, and this dog was insane. She had a major temperment problem. She never should've been bred. That would've been one less attack. So I have to put blame on the breeder for breeding the dam in the first place, the owners for not doing a good job as owners of a large breed, and myself for not knowing better to not rough-house with her around. I knew what she was capable of and I didnt think.
BUT I DONT BLAME THE DOG. She was a victim of circumstance. If the breeder had chosen a better dam, the owners taken proper care, and I was not so foolish, this would not have happened.
There is much more to a bite than just "It was so and so's fault".
Pitbulls, Rottys, Dobies, Akitas, and many other large breeds can be great pets. UNDER THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES. This is why I think potential dog owners should need a licence, and that all dogs should have to be temperment tested before being aloud to breed. This would save more money than it would cost. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/5/2006 1:04:46 AM | Well is that not more like "What do you think about dangerous breeds of people?"'
In my experience the most aggressive and dangerous dogs I have ever met have been trained that way. Some although not trained that way were mistreated or treated poorly. So as for dangerous breeds, both owners and handlers should be trained properly and know how to deal with your animal if he/she gets aggressive. Control your animals and love them. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/5/2006 4:35:27 AM | I am not sure that certain breeds are dangerous. Any breed can have the odd agressive/dangerous dog. I will give you though that certain breeds are more likely to be dangerous.
A lot has to do with how you raise them. I have always had Akitas and some say they are agressive but personaly I have never had even a slightly agressive Akita. I would trust them with anyone. On the other hand if my dog ever attacked anyone I would not hesitate putting it down. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/5/2006 2:32:46 PM | I just love all the bleeding heart dog owners on here. Its good to see how your love of your pets has clouded your logic.
This is a simple situation. Dogs have instincts and they can be trained. In no breed can training completely override instincts.
Who is responsible? Dog owners are responsible for their animal. They need to know what their animal is capable of and its temperment. They also need to monitor their animal and restrict that animal to situations that its behavior can be predicted. People are responsible for themselves and their children. They are not responsible for predicting the actions of any animal but are responsible for ensuring that their children are safe which includes keeping their children away from untrusted animals.
Who is responsible for dog attacks? The dog owner is solely responsible. When a dog attacks its almost the same as the owner attacking because the owner is suppose to know their animal. The only mitigating circumstance is if the owner or his family is in danger.
These excuses for dog actions like "its the dogs house" ... crap. Its the animal owners house. If their animal attacks for whatever reason or instinct that goes through the animals head its their responsibility. This is where the bleeding heart dog owners logic goes wrong. They want to partially blame the person who was attacked to some degree or that persons parents for not teaching them how to handle dogs or something stupid like that.
If a animal demonstrates its "inappropriate" instincts or training then it needs to be put down ... the owner had their chance and society can't be tolerant of "bad" owners or their dogs.
It may sound cold and it is. But its part of the cold realities of life. | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 116 | |
| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/5/2006 3:01:36 PM |
These excuses for dog actions like "its the dogs house" ... crap. Its the animal owners house.
You are applying human logic and rules to a pack animal. They do not think of it as the animals owners house. It is where they reside, which is THERE home, or den actually. It jsut happens to have man made stuff instead of a hole in a ground somewhere. Lets put this in more of a better perspective for you then, maybe you will grasp the concept. Would yo go into the den of a pack of dogs/wolves and expect them to be welcoming? If there were babies in there especially, you'd get your shitt ripped to high heaven. That is because the alpha in this case is an animal, not a human that hopefully has shown them restraint if it is someone whom knocks first. And if there is an introduction then the animal can have some down time and all can go with a visit...are you following or do I need to draw pics for ya too? | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/5/2006 3:58:06 PM | LMAO ... bleeding heart dog owner logic. I understand that you are trying to portray the animals perspective and I think you're bang on in your description of their perspective. The pet thinks it owns the house but it doesn't (at least not from the human perspective). It may even act like it owns the house but then that's up to the real owner (pet owner) to either train out or put limits on. If that dog attacks then it has proven itself incapable of living in the human world either due to its overpowering instincts or its poor training. It and its owner need to be disiplined and for the animal that means being put down.
The same thing would happen to a den of dogs/wolves in the wild ... they even get hunted and killed for attacking livestock let alone humans. Bears that attack people are always killed. I don't think that any of those animals were acting out of malice (oh ya ... I get to attack a human) they were just acting looking for food, or defending their territory. But we (humans) rule this world and its our children and society that need protecting. If the animals and animal owners can't get along then society will take action and kill the animals and charge the owners.
Reality sucks eh?
You can always draw me a picture ... but I don't think it will make your point any stronger. | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 118 | |
| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/5/2006 4:07:49 PM | You can always draw me a picture ... but I don't think it will make your point any stronger.
It would do you know good, you have your view and that is your choice. Bleeding heart? No just common sense and knowing dogs...but hey...oh well. Mine have not bit anybody and are not people aggressive so what would I know? Obviously my views are doing something correct but if peopel only want to see the bad then that is what they are going to see and continually discrdit those of us that do know what we are talking about. | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/5/2006 8:39:22 PM | OP, I understand where you're coming from as a parent. Your friends did something horrible and got away with it. To that one post (I dont remember your name!! sorry!) that said that she was a breeder of a bully breed (this page). As the Beatles song goes "Let it be". This incident is in the past, there's nothing you can really do about it now. I'm almost positive that he doesnt want to hear about how he should have acted, seeing as how the damage is already done. No need to yell OP, the posts are all opinions of others, but some people just dont see it as an animal attacking a baby (everybody is somebody's baby). The dog that attacked was not "good ol' fido", the dog that attacked was all animal. I was watching the dog whisperer and Ceaser said that once a dog startes to attack, he stops being your pet, and becomes an animal. I feel for the dog that was put down. He made a mistake and is paying the ultimate price. Your friends are no longer your real friends. Sure, you can hang out again, but nothing will ever be the same will it?
JMOP,
Mandy | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/5/2006 8:49:52 PM | | Also, I agree that dogs are pack animals, but as such they have a hiarchy. YOU (the owner) needs to be the alpha, meaning that YOU have to put the dog in his place. Also, eveybody please stop blaming the OP. It wasnt the OP's dog. The OP has stated time and time again that they dont own the dog, so stop telling them that "they should have trained the dog better". It was not their responsibility to train the dog. Sure, as guests in the dog's home, the dog feels that he needs to defend his turf... the dog needed to know that that was not his job. When there is nobody there, that's fine. But when the alpha is there, you'd better follow suit and play nice with the other pups. OP, again, let it be. | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 121 | |
| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/5/2006 9:34:04 PM | This incident is in the past, there's nothing you can really do about it now. I'm almost positive that he doesnt want to hear about how he should have acted, seeing as how the damage is already done
Yes but mandy, unless the OP accepts that she was partially in the wrong, not the wholey, nobody has ever stated that, this will continue to happen to her children. That is all any of us have pointed out.
but as such they have a hiarchy. YOU (the owner) needs to be the alpha, meaning that YOU have to put the dog in his place. Also, eveybody please stop blaming the OP. It wasnt the OP's dog. The OP has stated time and time again that they dont own the dog, so stop telling them that "they should have trained the dog better".
Yes, there is one and the dog is supposed to be at the bottom of it, and I do not ever remember seeing in any posts that any of us have said the the OP had to train the dog. That is the owners fault, totally and completely. We are not blaming the OP perse as pointing out where she went wrong, in hopes that maybe ti will not happen again. Instead all WE are being are mean and judgemental of her (in her eyes). We are offering insight into dogs so she can maybe learn from it. She can choose to or not, if she is not willing to take responsiblity for her part in it and realize that we are not judging her (or I am not anyways and I do not think bulldog or biggdogg or what ever his name is was either, what he said was spot on about dogs.) and apply what we say and learn from it, this is going to happen again. She will run a better risk of this NEVER happenign again if she would jsut take a step back and LISTEN. But if she does this again it will, and that is sad because the dog is going to pay. Because if it does happen again it will be that the owners will be that irresponsible too...hence we have another innocent child hurt and another innocent dog dead. All that could have been prevented had one woman opened her mind and LISTENED.
Sure, as guests in the dog's home, the dog feels that he needs to defend his turf... the dog needed to know that that was not his job
That is part of a dogs mentality...to defend his turf, smart dog rules go: let there be an introduction to let the dog know it is ok, or some dogs just the owner letting you in is ok enough, that lets the dog know that it does not need to at that time from these people. Hence he/she goes on doing there thing... | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/5/2006 9:57:04 PM | Allh2h
I've been following this thread since it started, adding my 2 cents here and there. From what I can tell, the OP WAS doing the right stuff when it comes to coming into a dog's home, and she has stated time and time again that she knew this dog (6 weeks is much longer than a week, and is plenty of time to get to know one another I think). I myself dont care too much about pit bulls, but I do love dogs as a species, so dont think that I'm one of those people out there FOR the ban, I was one of london ontario's protesters. I think that the OP has tried to listen, but due to misunderstandings, typos, and bad grammar (You know who you are. I'm guilty of it too), it has been difficult for her to distinguish between an all out attack (again, you know who you are), and just helpful advice. I am a dog breeder of 3 years (a novice still when it comes to breeders), but I know much more than the average joe about dogs. I've dedicated my whole life to them. What the good advice people are saying is very true OP, dogs cant be expected to think like humans, they are still dogs.
lol. I just realised how whiney my posts look. lol. Sorry, its been a long day. One of my dogs recently died during while giving birth... it was really hard on me. The pups didnt make it either. This was my first loss for breeding... it hurt. I think someone has to put up the difference between inbreeding, linebreeding and outcrossing again, seeing as how I've read after MY post about it that pit bulls are unstable because of inbreeding. Grr.
I'm getting even more whiney! lol.
Sorry about the ramblings
-Mandy | |
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| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/5/2006 9:58:21 PM | hey i know what you mean. I'm a single father of one thirteen year old girl.
when she was seven she also was bit in the face by a pit bull.
ya know at first i didn't know what to think about it but i knew that the first thing i wanted to be done was to see that dog be put down.
i think if it did it once it could do it again,but i also think that some breeds require
more training and more socializing then others because some breeds are more protective.
i cant realy blame the dog because the owners should be responsible enough to learn how to train the dog if there going to have them.
also they say once a dog tastes blood it will want more.
in my mind why take the chance.
next time it could be life threatening.
on the other hand i had a rottie after that and i found that it was one of the most playful and loyal dogs that I've ever had or seen.
it toke a lot of training and time but his nature was good .
my daughter still just loves dogs today but she is a lot more careful with strange and big dogs.
she loves the rottie but we also did a lot of work socializing him with strangers as a pup by
walking him around people and disciplining him every time he was to act aggressive to anyone.
but to say that all pit bulls are bad is like saying that all salesmen are thieves.
good luck with it i hope she doesn't get a fear over this | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 124 | |
| What do you think about dangerous breeds of dogs?
Posted: 7/5/2006 10:25:19 PM | But 6 weeks is not enough time for the owners to get a good handle on the dog if this happened....hind sight is better then foresight. And plainly that dog should not have been around that many peopel. With what I have seen and with what the op has described it could have been an issue with the child being at eyelevel with the dog, something aggravated that dog and the child was somewhere in the root of it. Whether it be that she was at eye level, or if the dog was just overwhelmed with all the people. And 6 weeks, in my experience with dogs with an unknown history is not enough time to know all the ins and outs of a dog. My mom and dad got a doxy from the pound and a year down the road we were still learning about her personality. You put it being a prey aggressive dog...and that is just asking for trouble either way you look at it. Even though my Heidi is only 1/8 pitt I have done massive research into pitts and mastiff so I know what to do and what not to do, and with me having a dobe that has also been the case. And I have found what I have learned has worked, I have a two year old that is safe as can be around both my dogs and can take food from there mouth, look them in the eye. Any aggression from either dogs has not been tolerated so I could have them. And I guess what I had wanted to pass on to the OP was my experience and what I have learned so in the future she and her family would have a better chance of this not happening. At times I might have not put it correctly and that was not my intent, I jsut hope that she can open her mind and heart and know that for the most part, those of us that were offereing sound advice (which those would be that pretty much were all the similar in things said) was jsut that. So it would not happen again. I do stand by my belief that she should not have had any of her family around that dog at that short amount of time...personally I think that is just dog smarts. But the owners are the main one responsible there, that dog should have been put outside or crated. But that is just my opinion on what I would do with my dogs, as I want good experiences for my dogs and for people with my dogs. And I am quite territorial too LOL when it comes to all my babies, two legged included. They are all so lovable and such a joy 
mandy I am sorry to hear about your loss...that is so horrible  Take care | |
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